replacing thermal paste

Anyone took apart their thinkpads to replace the oem thermal paste with some better stuff like the arctic silver? Does this void your warranty?

 

I don't think if you replace the TIM it voids the warranty unless it is done wrong or if you break something else in the process.

With silver, I would be careful as silver conducts electricity and if you get it on the motherboard or anything else it can short something.

 

personally i use MX-3, safer. you can find the thinkpad hardware manuals, i think the link is in the sticky

 

I won't be using the regular version of the artic silver. I have the Ceramique which is non-electroconductive.
It's this one:
Arctic Silver Incorporated - Céramique
It's the same one I used for my desktop and I found it lowered the cpu and IOH temperatures by about 10-15 degrees once it cured. Some people said that they had some heating issues with their x220 so I just want to take some precautions.

 

In my opinion "it's never the paste". I have never seen more than a couple of degrees difference even going from a pad to paste. The determining factors seem to be getting good contact between the CPU and heatsink, heatsink size, fan speed, CPU load, and ambient temperature.

 

Ah okay ceramic based you are fine. I personally use IC Diamond 7. For the CPU, using silver based TIM is fine as long as you are careful. For GPU and Northbridge I use ceramic based TIM. Honestly the real world difference between silver and ceramic is 1-3C max.

 

Paste/pad arguments aside, I have read that if the paste is incorrectly applied (or applied in the wrong amounts) it could cause the system to heat up significantly... so be aware of that.

 

exactly, thats why i find replacing the paste has significant temperature improvements, not totally due to the the paste itself, but the sloppy application at the factory

 

I always find the same crappy OEM themal pad (that gummy stuff) that gives shoddy contact whenever I open up a heatsink (which is always because of something overheating). That's why I like to use my own stuff. Even a few degrees can extend the lifetime of the chip by quite a bit, as well as lowering the fan rpm (= less noise) . Less pent up heat will also help with the battery life a bit.
I just want to know how difficult would it be to disassemble the thinkpad in order to remove the heatsink from the cpu.

 

I did a little reading this morning on thermal paste, and all of the leading edge paste brands only differ by 3-4 degrees.. (when they're all applied correctly). Seeing some of the heat complaints in this forum, if they indeed are fixed by putting on arctic silver or whatnot, most likely the fix was because the paste was properly applied.

 

Which thinkpad? The x220 has a "heat sink" FRU removal video Lenovo Service and Support Training somewhere on that site. Unfortunately the site is flash so I can't provide a direct link.

 

Oh this is really helpful. Thanks!
It will be for the x220.

 

Hmm in the heatsink replacement video I noticed there's barely any thermal paste on the chip on the right side of the video. I'm guessing that's the northbridge.
And the way they placed the thermal paste....ya, I'm definitely replacing it with my own lol.

 

^I'd say there was no thermal paste on what looks like the NB.
(unless that was the IGP but I thought that was onboard Sandy Bridge)

Is it possible to remove the heatsink without having the system board out? Thats the big question, tearing the laptop down to that level for thermal paste is....not good. hah

 

I believe you have to, because the heatsink is under the system board when its mounted to the chassis.

 

it actually doesn't look bad at all. It's a lot more logical and structured than some of the other stuff I've taken apart. I would say maybe 2 hours tops?

 

Watching the disassembly videos, it doesn't look like it would take longer than 15 min to reach the actual heatsink..

 

Replacing the thermal pads with a good application of AS5 or any other more reputable thermal compounds won't make any large difference. I did this on my old T510 and didn't see any temperature differences. It always idled in the mid 30s and low 40s.

Also one thing to consider is that the cases are made of plastic and removing panels can cause creaking in certain areas. You do have to exercise care when taking the notebook apart. It's more time consuming and a more delicate operation than opening a standard desktop case. I would review the instructions and have them on hand for reference.

Total time should not exceed 30-45 minutes with proper care. Please make sure to ground yourself and avoid ESD, which will fry the circuitry of your notebook.

C.

 

I've completely taken apart every laptop I've owned and put it back together before without any video or diagrams so I'm pretty sure I'll be fine with the help of these service videos. I would even say that I've extended the life of my laptop by taking it apart routinely and cleaning out the insides with a airblower.
I just feel more comfortable applying my own thermal compound properly.
Once my x220 comes I'll snap some pics of the process.

 

well, my x220 came today.
first thing I did was to take it apart. pretty easy to do. Didn't have the hexnut screwdriver so had to do it with a wrench, but other then that all good.
The thermal paste is the standard stuff you find, nothing too good. I cleaned it off with some alcohol.

Some pictures of the innards:
http://min.us/mvpe5ie

Tried to burn some recovery discs using a usb dvd burner, failed so I gave up. Not like I ever uses the recovery discs.

 

Did you happen to compare your temps before and after replacing the termal paste on your x220?

 

I'm interested in this too ^

 

Surprising people still buy AS5, it's definitely not nearly as good as the newer pastes. 5 years ago it had a lot of hype, but I believe MX-2, 3, 4 are all better (maybe not 2, forgot).

Check this page out, they're pretty reputable testers, just keep in mind this isn't absolute, it's fully possible other comparisons have gotten slightly different results. Also keep in mind that thermal paste is getting quite good and is approaching a few degrees C of the theoretical performance of 0 thermal resistance for most processors.
2011 Thermal Compound Roundup – Results Compilation | Skinnee Labs

Among the ones not tested, Arctic Ceramique is popular because it's an okay performer but is cheap as dirt. Shin Etsu has some very good paste but they're hard to find and very expensive. IIRC IC Diamond doesn't actually perform that well, it's a waste of money. If it were my money I'd go for MX-2, as MX-3 and 4 are rather expensive.

 

In my opinion "it's never the paste". I have never seen more than a couple of degrees difference even going from a pad to paste. The determining factors seem to be getting good contact between the CPU and heatsink, heatsink size, fan speed, CPU load, and ambient temperature."

I would definitely agree with Bsofy.

Renee

 

hey, so i just replaced the thermal paste on the CPU (with Antec Formula 5 - silver based thermal paste) and didn't touch the thermal pad on the NB, and my max temps in wPrime 1024M dropped from 96/98 degrees C (scary) to 89/88 degrees C!!! very happy with the results!

 

x220
i3-2310M
Artic Ceramique, cured for about 1 week

running wPrime 1024M
using core temp for temperature readings.

max cpu temp.
core0: 71C
core1: 69C

I never tested the x220 with the default stuff since replacing the paste was the first thing I did. But 71C and 69C is pretty cool.
Normally the CPU runs at around 30-35C. Ambient emperature is around room temperature 25C, +/- a few degrees.

 

Consider pm'ing him because it's easy to miss stuff on this busy forum.

 

Thanks! Would have liked to know what the default i3 temps were but I guess it would have only been a few degrees more. Not sure what utility you used for readings but would it be similar to what Real Temp would report?

 

My i3 temperatures on full load (prime95) max at 75-76. Idle is about 40-45 on average.

 

I used Core Temp for the the temperature readings. It gives you temperature per core and highest temperature per processor. I'm not entirely sure how accurate it is, so I will be installing speedfan later to validate. The core temperature could be higher than the cpu temperature.

I'm guessing there's probably around a 5C +/- 1C difference in temperature at max loads. Not sure what that translates into during normal usage though.

I noticed that a lot of people complained about fan spinning at high rpm or the machine being warmer than they expected. I have to say I didn't experience any of these issues and my machine remains quite cool to the touch after about 8 hours of usage playing video files, youtube, web browsing, and some coding. There were no issues with fan reving or spinning at a high rpm thus far.

 

chaose ::

Thanks for posting this. From what I gathered, it looks like improvement can be made when applying thermal compound correctly. I was able to read the model of the fan from your pics (KSB0405HA) which appears to be generic fan

Got some questions for you
1 - How to properly remove thermal compound from heatsink/cpu?
2 - How did you apply thermal compound on a cpu? From what I have seen (for Desktop), it's just a drop of thermal compound. But from Lenovo training site, it's 5 drops
3 - Is the fan permanently attached to heatsink? Since my fan has high pitch noise, I figure I could buy a replacement fan.
4 - I couldn't read voltage/ampere rating of the fan from your pics. Can you take a look at the originals? (I found .36A fan, and .5A fan online and wanted to make sure to get the right one.)
Thanks!

 

1. I used cotton q-tips (i guess dipstick is the generic name?) with rubbing alcohol (isopropyl alcohol) to remove the factory thermal compound, it comes off quite easily and dries fast without damaging any of the components.
2. the application depends on your thermal paste. For more fluid compounds you can use a business card to spread it in a even manner over the cpu. For the more sticky stuff that doesn't spread as well, just make sure to try to get as even and think of a surface as possible. The goal of the thermal compound is to fill in all the invisible scratchs, dents and pits on the heatsink and the cpu to provide a good thermal contact. When you screw the heatsink in place the pressure should force the thermal paste to fill in those dents. Make sure not to apply too much. I find that a line of the thermal compound down the middle of the CPU will be more than enough to spread over the area.
3. I didn't take a detailed look at the fan, but from my previous experiences you should be able to unscrew the fan from the heatsink and replace it with the same model. I did replace the fan on my HP and sony laptops after 2-3 years of use when they died on me. The fans can be bought for cheap on ebay.
4. Not sure if I can help you there, took the pics with my cellphone camera because it was the only one close by, so the image quality is a bit shoddy. I never experienced this fan problem; it's barely audible in a quite room at night. There's no annoying revs or anything.

If you are replacing the thermal compound I would suggest holding off on replacing the fan as the thermal compound might alleviate your heat problems which could lead to a quiter fan. On the other hand, you do waste some time taking it apart again. It's easier the second time though. Try to wear a anti-static wristband if you have one; I didn't use one while taking it apart but I made sure to discharge myself quite often by touching my desktop chasis.

Also, the screws layout in the X220 doesn't correspond exactly with the screws layout in the video, so just remember that. It's a good as a general guideline.

 

So as predicted replacing the paste doesn't lower temps much more than a few degrees. Looks like one of the benefits of not having turbo boost in the i3 is around 10C lower temp.

 

Remember all million of those screws you take out need to be replaced with new ones.

Well maybe not. But that is the directions.

I do have a torque to yield bolt in the front of my crankshaft in my newest Chebby and that does require a new one each time it is replaced (at about $100).

Course that is holding the whole engine together and has got to take 5-600 hp.

Can't see that the screws in a laptop are all that darned critical, but that is what the maintenance manual thinks.

Perry

 

chaose ::

Thanks much for the tips! I appreciate it.

Yes, I have been weighing whether I should replace the fan & thermal paste at the same time, or thermal first then fan later.

I'm on Linux. If I use bios fan control, idle/normal load temp would be around 43/47c with fan running constantly at 3500-3900rpm. High pitch noise is audible when it's 2500+ rpm.

If I use thinkfan and try to peg fan speed at level 1 (~2000rpm max), then temperature will be around 46/50c, which is not bad. But when it's intermittent high load, temp will spike up and the fan had to spin faster/longer in order to bring the temp down. --- If reapplying the paste can lower ~5c, I shouldn't need a new fan.

But still, the idea of a fan with high-pitch noise anoys me.

Thanks again

 

With bios-controlled fan on Linux, my idle temp is about 43c (i7). I suppose ~5-10c lower idle temp would make a difference to me.

 

Keep in mind my fan extractor is kinda ill-placed; it's hard to explain, but is should be like 0,5cm lower. I should have it fixed, as well as new thermal placed added soon. I'm curious how (if) temperatures are going to drop

 

If you can see the heatsink underneath the fan from the exhaust port, your fan should be in the proper place vertically. Mine's the same. I think the fan needs to be in that position so that the rubber pad on the fan will support the keyboard in the upper left, prevent keyboard flex there. I suppose if you have to you can try to push the fan lower by adding some layers of tape on the rubber pad so that it presses down harder on the fan.

Keep in mind good thermal paste generally requires at least 1-2 weeks to fully cure and achieve optimal performance. However, having a few degrees lower idle temperature means less heat = better battery life and lower component failure rate in general. I still think under extended loads thermal paste will offer greater benefits, and it doesn't hurt. It might just look like a few degrees but the effect is amplified in a laptop versus a desktop PC, where heat isn't as much of an issue.

1 small hitch that I ran into when I took my system apart was the VGA connector. You have to remove the 2 hexnut screws on the sides of the VGA connectors to remove the system board. I didn't have a nut screw remover handy so I used a mini wrench to unscrew it.