t520 vs Samsung Series 7. FIGHT!

Does anyone think the Samsung Series 7 will give the t520 a run for its money for most consumers?

Here are a few comparisons..

Samsung S7, which includes an Intel Core i7 2675QM processor, 6GB of DDR3 memory, 750GB hard drive, AMD Radeon HD 6490M graphics, 3W stereo speakers, webcam, 802.11b/g/n Wi-Fi, and Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit with a thin bezel 1600x900 display resolution 300nit, 5.05lb total weight.

Starts at $999. ($1149 gets you the AMD Radeon HD 6750M


T520 with a Intel Core i7-2720QM, 15.6" HD+ (1600 x 900) , 1 watt speakers, NVIDIA NVS 4200M Graphics, 6 GB PC3-10600 DDR3 SDRAM , 500 GB Hard Disk Drive, 5.57lbs weight.

Comes in at $1,474.00

Thinkpad has a weaker gpu than the $999 one, less monitor brightness, no 8 gig SSD cache, less hard drive space, less battery life, is heavier, thicker, and larger, and is over $450 more dollars.

Thoughts?

 

You must consider coupon/deal discount for T520...
but full magnesium case and thin-bezel is quite attempting.

I would go with Series 7 but 14 inch one (if not need 6750M)
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=6244

Definitely HP's envy series are inferior than this... possibly threaten dv6t, dv7t line up too.

 

I dont think even a 15% discount lowers the price enough to bring it to a similar price, much less the same bang for buck..

 

My thoughts are, go troll somewhere else.

 

How is discussing the current price and specs of the Lenovo t520 in the Lenovo forum as compared with some of its new competition a troll post?

 

Kind of sounds like it to me.

 

To me, it kinda sounds like Lenovo needs to up its game... With in a year, I will be replacing my t500 and they are not making it easy for me to go with them again.

And just because the match isn't close, doesn't mean there wasn't a fight. The cost and size determines the class, and Lenovo looks like it is out classed.

 

That 15" Series 7 looks like crap. Off-center, smaller keyboard? I'll pass. The 14" looks decent enough, as long as the keyboard is good (that said, I'll pass in favor of a Thinkpad, but that thin bezel is nice).

My biggest wish: that the Samsung Series 7 exerts pressure on Lenovo to up its game on screen technology, regarding both thinner bezel and pixel-level quality.

 

Well, going by a pure specs-based comparison, the HP dv6 handily beats the T520 with much more powerful CPU and GPU options and a matte 1920x1080 screen all for less. There's less-evident benefits that the Thinkpad T520 and other business-grade machines bring over their cheaper consumer-grade rivals, though. Whether those are worth it for you will determine whether the T520 is worth the premium.

That price for the T520, though, is most definitely inflated. I can get those same specs for hundreds less.

Overall, though, I think the two laptops have different target markets. That's not to say that the Series 7 isn't a good machine, however--I think Samsung is producing some very attractive laptops lately that will help increase its presence in the US.

 

I filled out the closest I could get to options on their website. They must inflate their website prices?

 

You can't compare apples and oranges. As MidnightSun stated, if you just take in account specs, yes the Samsung would beat the T520. But the T520 is built more durable and with better quality components than the 7 series Samsung. It's also a consumer grade machine vs a business machine. A more appropriate comparison would be like the Dell Latitude E6520.

 

I would have waited to purchase the Series 7 15" notebook (15" screen in a 14" notebook) instead of ordering a new T420 except that the 15" version seems to have disappeared from all the recent announcements. Only the 14" and 15.6" configurations get any publicity now. Which led me to believe it would be a long wait for the 15", especially in Canada.

Other than this issue, the Series 7 looks to be a huge winner for Samsung.

 

The "consumer grade" vs "business grade" distinction is bunk and people are morons for believing it.

In the case of Dell and HP it just means it is more reliable (and far more expensive) than the rest of their crap. However, Dell is at the bottom of reliability rankings and their business division is near the bottom. Hp is near the bottom and their business in the bottom 50%.

Lenovo does not make a clear distinction between consumer and business grade in the manufacturing process. Only in the marketing.

Their reliability rating overall it 8th out of notebook manufacturers.

"Business grade' is a lie and anyone who believes it is a fool.


As for T520 "being more durable with better quality components" -


How the hell do you know? The series 7 is not even out.

Samsung has higher reliability ratings than Lenovo over the last two years.

Samsung screens are better than the crap Lenovo puts in their laptops with the exception of the X220 (however, most of those screens are being recalled for ghosting issues)


I bet you would have the audacity to say the Lenovo has better quality components than and Asus when Asus makes the best motherboards in the business. The processors for Lenovo (and everyone else) are made by Intel or AMD- Graphics are by Nvidia or ATI.

WHat exactly is better quality about a Lenovo? THe case? Nope. Outsourced.

Keyboards? Maybe. Really a subjective issue.

Thats it.

So stop acting like it means something that you paid $250-500 more for a "business class" laptop.

 

@AlphaNerd: Judging by your posting history and the unnecessary insults you throw out, you apparently have some sort of vendetta against Lenovo. I'll respond rationally though.

1.- And where are these figures from? If they're from the SquareTrade/similar studies, it means pretty much nothing. I've pointed out multiple times in the past that there are numerable significant statistical issues with those studies. One significant one is that they group all laptops by a certain manufacturer together. That goes for all your "reliability ratings" claims.

2.- Aren't you basically stating that there is a business/consumer distinction in those sentences...?

3.- The business/consumer grade line is drawn just as clearly at Lenovo as at HP and Dell. Business grade laptops are designed in-house, whereas consumer grade laptops are largely (but not all) designed by the ODM manufacturers.

Samsung supplies a good fraction of those screens, with the exception of the X220. Many of Samsung's laptops do have pretty mediocre screens as well. But in general, I do agree with you that current Thinkpad screens (with the exception of the T520 High-Nit and the X22 IPS) are rather poor.

Well, all OEMs contract other companies to make laptops, including Apple, which arguably has some of the best quality control. Thinkpads are not manufactured by the same ODMs that produce the IdeaPad range, however. In addition, there are various features that do make Thinkpads more durable than IdeaPads (metal internal frame, spill-resistant keyboard, reinforced lid capable of withstanding greater pressure, stronger hinges, etc).

That's not to say that Thinkpads don't have build flaws, you'd be silly to claim otherwise.

Personally, at least, I wouldn't say that. But as I mentioned in my earlier post, that's not where the distinction is. You get the same (or more powerful) raw components in a dv6.

Especially in recent years, business laptops don't command nearly the premium that they used to over consumer grade laptops. You'd be hard-pressed to find another 12" ultraportable Core i3 machine for $550 (yes, X220 prices do get that low, if you're patient. Likewise for Dell (see Dell Outlet and the 20-30% off coupons), although not as much for HP.

 

@Alphanerd, it is obvious you have no idea what you are talking about.

Lenovo uses lot of Samsung LCD in their Thinkpad, and they are not the most highly regarded LCD. Also, Lenovo doesn't produce their own LCD, they source it from third parties like LG, AOC, Samsung, Chimei, etc.

Another few things about business grade laptops versus consumer grade laptop.

1. They are designed for stability and reliability over pure performance, as such you won't see many business grade laptops cramming lot of high spec CPU + GPU into wafer thin systems, which may cause reliability issues down the line.

2. Business laptops go through more testing and verification.

3. Business grade laptops tend to use better hinge and casing designs (with more reinforcement) to ensure that they survive falls and everyday man handlings.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/typo3temp/pics/c2b5b343b6.jpg <-- try to do this with your consumer grade laptop.

4. Business grade laptops tend to have parts that are backwards compatible with older machines. So a Thinkpad X220 keyboard can be used in T520/T510, T420/T410, T420s/T410s/T400s, W510/W520. Try that with a Samsung laptop of different generations.

5. They have more warranty support options, like onsite, depot, parts exchange. If you have a broken keyboard on your Thinkpad, you can swap it out within 5 minutes, try that with a consumer grade laptop.

6. Longer warranty support time, many business grade laptops can be optioned with 5 years warranty. Not something available with the consumer grade laptops.

7. Business grade laptops are easily serviced by yourself, as there are many resources available.

Lenovo Service and Support Training
Hardware manual is also available for all models of thinkpads.

8. Many business grade laptops have provision for extra batteries and many of them have native docking support.

Finally, most laptops (whether business or consumer) are built by ODM and contract manufacturers, this is not a problem, but how you design the laptop (not just the casing with layers of glossy silver paint) and how it is manufactured will matter.

 

So basically, it really is true that "the Samsung Series 7 will give the t520 a run for its money for most consumers".

But at the same time, a smaller consumer segment may prefer the older business hardware for driver stability purposes and may prefer the larger frame and overbuilt henge design over the faster hardware, longer battery life, thinner profile, and brighter screen.

I am not going to agree with anyone that says the lenovo built quality is better overall though. I think I have used my t500s warranty 3 times so far, and a few of them were palm wrest cracking caused by the weight of my wrists resting on the surface of the palm rest. It would cause cracks to form over my mic or sdcard ports and they would run over by my track pad. This has happened to multiple palm rests. I have also seen really fast wear of the trackpad buttons. When I replaced my first wrist rest, the left click button was almost worn through having a huge dimple. Now my second one is the same way after the second year. I have never had this problems out of any of my other brands of laptops. Even the consumer Gateway, Compaq, Acer, type ones.. :\

Other than the case design, and the driver support, the other parts are basically all outsourced to the same companies.. And I have not had a good experience with lenovo drivers either.... It took them 2 years to release a working switching graphics driver that didnt run both cards at the same time for my t500...

 

Ok sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

If by that you mean "the Samsung Series 7 will sell fewer units", then you're right.

Nah. The larger segment will prefer the proven reliability, support, and robust design of the Thinkpads versus a little-known product line that most will probably never seriously consider. Like it or not, there's a lot of weight behind the Thinkpad name. Thinkpads are well-known for business-class design and quality.

It's called "build quality", not "built quality". It's your right to think whatever you like; it's your right to troll, until punished by the mods anyway; and it's your right to be wrong.

Yep, that's coming across loud and clear. No matter how you hate it, though, ThinkPads are well-known for high quality, and beloved by many people everywhere, faults and all.

Seriously, I understand that a number pad can be useful, but downsizing a keyboard and placing it off-center makes the Series 7 15" model look like a$$.

 

@midnightSun. I dont think the dv6 would have a build level and eye for details that matches the Thinkpad where the samsung can compete. That is what makes it a game changer to me.

I can't stand HPs trackpads either. And their love for glossy screens.

 

I didn't realize you had one in hand. Please post a review pronto!!!!

 

@Iucounu - If Samsung does end up launching the 15" in addition to the 15.6, that would fix the off center keyboard issue. Not sure why it's not available yet since they have shown it off already?

Yeah, I see that typo... I am at work typing on a 27" imac with Lion, and the autocorrect "feature" is really driving me nuts!

I don't think sharing my Lenovo experience and my viewpoint on their current product offering means I am trolling. It may be offensive to anyone that is personally attached to the brand, but honestly, it's because I want a better Lenovo, and a better t530, that I speak up about them slacking off.... If one don't care about a top notch product, why go with a premium brand?

The t500 I have was a beast for its time.... and there was a reason why I got one.... It was just as fast as a macbook pro that cost almost twice as much at the time just like this samsung is..... The current t520 is not....

I just want a similar option in the future for a Lenovo without making so many compromises...... A good screen, a decent low to mid lvl gpu that is actually better than the intel in real world use, no plastic cracking... no wobbly battery, no 9 cell that sticks out... no 2 year old driver issues, etc...

 

Some problems I see: you're effectively slamming the T520 for your T500 cracking issue, which AFAIK the T520 doesn't suffer from; and you're disregarding that Samsung won't make a perfect product either, and just assuming it will be perfect.

I agree that the Lenovo screen options could be better, but it still offers relative known strengths compared to the completely unknown quantity that is the Samsung Series 7. How did you fare with Samsung support in the past? Oh, wait... A business-class laptop is far, far more than a screen hooked up to a processor.

 

Well, to be fair, I only brought up the plastics quality and drivers issues of my t500 to help explain my view that the Lenovo build quality factor is, in my opinion, not a large enough justification for the lower specs and higher price.

My best guess is that there is just not going to be that big of a difference in build quality for an average person, based on reviews I have seen on both sides for other models.

Now, if you have a habit of handing other people your flat laptop by the tip of the screen, yes, lenovo t520 would be a nice choice... If you like to encode home movies of your child while writing c++ at the office, it is not...

Heck, with the samsung, you can even meet client at a local coffe shop going full business mode, and when he leaves, play a 3d game until its time to head back.

And I never asked for the details of what the samsung is or is not. The detailed reviews are not even out yet... I was asking what people think will happen. If it will give the T a run for its money as a top of the line PC laptop. I would not, and would not recommend anyone preorder one, without seeing the full details come out.

 

As a final unofficial warning: debate and discussion is fine, but leave out personal attacks and insults. I have removed some posts, so you know who you are.

The current dv6 generation has been praised by many for having good build quality and having a matte screen option (the 1920x1080 FHD anti-glare dispaly is matte). I wouldn't expect the Samsung Series 7 to be radically different from the dv6 in terms of build quality. If it's just as solid, the Series 7 would be very attractive to many consumers.

Fundamentally, people who buy T520s and Series 7s have different values/usage in mind. Each laptop caters well to those different usage patterns. Will there be some overlap where a user will choose one over the other? Yes, but I wouldn't expect there to be a whole lot.

 

T520 is a full size traditional business notebook. The Series 7 is a full size full spec ultrabook. Not the same thing.

But Lenovo will be launching Ultrabooks in the Thinkpad line soon, so hold off the criticism till that comes out.

Here is the Lenovo's current stock of Ultrabook that is been progressively launched by Lenovo. http://thisismynext.com/2011/09/01/lenovo-ideapad-u300s-ultrabook-u300-u400/ <-- this is what you should compare the Series 7 to, not the current Thinkpads as none of them are proper Ultrabooks.

 

@MidnightSun - I think that is a fair assessment.

@lead_org - Interesting... Do you think the Lenovo Ultrabook's optional Radeon HD5470M GPU be better than the Sandy Bridge and/or the Ivy bridge onboard GPU? I am pretty sure the Samsung GPU can double performance of at least the Sandy Bridge one.

Will the processor be a lower voltage i7 than the samsung, or the same class? (Being even thinner and lighter.)

And do you think lenovo will offer the higher resolution screens on their ultra books. Like maybe a 1600x900?

 

The 5470m is not that good, it is only slightly better than the Intel HD3000.

I am not sure about the spec of the new Thinkpad Ultrabook, i dont think most Lenovo managers would know as this is a harsh harsh thing, and information are only progressively released by the Lenovo global. But given what Lenovo has done with the X1, i would imagine it would be amazing (for me at least).

 

Looking at the wikipedia entry for Intels ultra book, I do not think the samsung series 7 fits the bill..

The samsung is using the Core i7-2675QM CPU clocked at 2.2GHz which is a 45 watt unit, and the ultra books are using 17 W 1.6 to 1.8 ghz CULV sandy bridge processors..

Plus the samsung is around 5lbs with an optical drive, and ultrabooks are in the 3 pound area sporting no optical drive.

I think this thing is closer to a macbook pro or a T520 than a macbook air or Intel Ultrabook..

 

okay. the T520 isn't a real competitor against the MBP 15 inch. You probably need to use the R500 and and the T520 to know what i am talking about.

Anyway one thing is for sure Samsung laptops are not aimed at the business laptop market.

 

I think Midnight Sun said it well when he was saying that there is some overlap where a person may choose between the two laptops, but overall it is different enough.

ie. A newspaper may not care that a t520 is thicker and has a smaller battery if they standardize on the Lenovo brand. (Although ironically the newspaper I work for standardizes on Apple.)

I may be an exception to the majority of Lenovo customers, being a web designer that owns a small business and also likes to do home videos and play games. My laptop is a tool that helps me earn my living, and speaks to my clients when I meet them.

Overall, I want to do my job first, and look professional while I am pitching jobs as an extra touch of confidence to the people I meet with, and also want to have a machine that I can use for video editing and games in what little spare time I have second.

I had to order my t500. There is no where around here that carries them, so I really can't use a t520 to see what you are talking about. Can you give me some more info on that?

 

I'd disagree with that statement. Among 15" workstations, a huge decision is MBP 15 v. T520/W520. Between general-purpose 14" laptops, the decision is often T420 v. MBP 13. Many firms give their employees a similar choice. Several of my friends were making the same decision, between those two sets of laptops. I see them as definite competitors, although which one you end up choosing often reflects which set of values are most important to you for your computer.

 

I agree with MidnightSun. I was looking for a PC equivalent to my MacBook 13.3 unibody and I chose the T420. I decided to go with the T420 instead of a new MBP because I'm not impressed by OS X Lion and wanted to run away from poloneck sweaters dictatorship/nonsense. That being said, I think that other people might prefer MBP's copies such as the Samsung QX41x series.

 

It is the next best choice. Lenovo have the T420s and X1 as the competitors to the MBP. If you put the T520 next to the MBP 15 then you would know that the T520 loses in the size and thickness factors. The T520 is more of a desktop replacement machine due to the increased thickness of the bottom casing (much like the R500 was).

The old T500 was more of a MBP competitor. Also, lot of corporation that are going Apple are going straight for the MBP 13 and MBA 13 for the portability factors (well at least in Australia). But obviously there are people whom will choose between the T520 and MBP 15 as alternatives, just like some people would choose between the ideapads Y560/570 and T520 as alternatives.