whats the point of the R series?

A few years ago in the IBM to IBM-lenovo thinkpad days I remember the R series were dramatically different in terms of looks and specifications than the T series back when these product lines were first introduced. The R series were obviously lower specs and physical quality builds than the T series at usually half their cost. The T-series were made to be the flagship line for business notebooks with distinct qualities at least in terms of the looks department.

Now it appears the R series looks entirely the same as the T series. And its not because I'm a newcomming to the thinkpad scene and think 'all thinkpads look the same'. Back then T series and R series looked distinctly different. I've owned both an R and T series. Nowadays not so much. To me they look pretty much the same.

So whats the point of the R series now? I know even in the looks and build department they are different such as R series being slightly thicker and the surface finish of the laptop is different etc but on the whole its pretty much the same as the T series. In terms of hardware it can be configured to pretty much the same specs minus the dedicated graphics which the T line also offers. So it seems kind of pointless when there isnt that much seggregation of the product lines. THey are essentially one and the same.

I also don't understand why the screen is off center for both the new R and T series. I know its for the antennas but they could have worked on their engineering gig to workaround this problem and have a centered screen. Granted that there were many thinkpads of the past that also had offcentered screens.The X30x looks similar to the old T series line minus the thickness factor of course.

 

To get people to buy a ThinkPad who might not have otherwise done so because of the cost. If you don't need WWAN or the GPU, the R series offers better value if you ask me.

 

^

Less customization options as well. No higher resolution screen; 4 gig max ram.

Looks like a good choice for a MS Office type person who wants to keep their costs low, yet have a machine with great durability/reliability. Seems to make sense.

 

The screen on the R-series isn't reinforced, too.

There are many differences - and they show themselves in the cost.

 

The 14" R and T are almost the same machine, with the R series being slightly heavier and thicker. It lacks some of the premium features of the T series like WWAN or the GPU. The 15.4" are more different. The R lacks the roll cage in the lid and is a bit more clunky if you ask me, but still well built. Both offers higher resolution screens, though there's no WUXGA on the R. Perhaps you could swap it if you like.

 

My organization skipped T series entirely in our mass deployment plan. For upper management we chose X200, middle R400 and lower use some Dell models. Previously we deployed X61 and R61.

T series is considered too pricey and switchable graphic is redundant in our business ERP. R series weight is still acceptable. According to our IT dept, T series is more suitable for enthusiast user and individual. For mass deployment R series still offer better value.

About off centered screen, imo, it gives a bit sparks to an overall black design. Like the old tricolor IBM logo.

 

no i understand about having a wide product range in terms of price. I forgot to mention in my argument that they already have the lower cost lines. The thing is they always did. They have the SL line now, which btw is even cheaper than an R series. Back then also, I remember they had the i series which was also cheaper than the R series then.

Today, the R series is basically the T series. You are probably going to get the same price or better for the same specs if you went for a T series. The entry price may be a little lower for the R series but at the cost of lower specs also. To me its pretty much the same. If you had upgraded an R series to the specs of a T series you might as well get the T. If you had really wanted someone cheaper, then the SL series is always there making more sense anyway.

 

About SL, actually we have two units here from our supplier. Whether we will deploy them or not still under consideration i guess. I think the problem with SL is more like about convenience. Logical step when upgrading from R series, is go to newer R series.

The point is R series still have appealing factor, especially within some organization. They offer better values than T series. Especially now, when the difference between them is becoming minimal.

If you jumped into SL argument, R series still closer to T. The most logical alternative to find lesser price for T is to go to R, not SL.

 

for a current situation comparison for 3 thinkpad-lines all with their lenovo discount offers which are the same (but no coupon). I took a look at lenovo us. These are the same spec machines for the SL, R and T series:

SL400:

Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo Processor P8600 (2.40GHz 1066MHz 3MBL2) 25W 1
Operating system: Genuine Windows Vista Home Basic 1
Operating system language: Genuine Windows Vista Home Basic US English 1
Display type: 14.1" WXGA LED VibrantView 1
System graphics: Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 4500MHD 1
Total memory: 2 GB PC2-5300 DDR2 SDRAM 667MHz SODIMM Memory (2 DIMM) 1
Keyboard: Keyboard US English 1
Pointing Device: UltraNav without fingerprint reader 1
Hard Drive: 160 GB Hard Disk Drive, 5400rpm 1
Optical device: DVD Recordable 8x Max Dual Layer 1
Integrated WiFi wireless LAN adapters: ThinkPad 11b/g Wireless LAN Mini PCI Express Adapter III 1
Battery: 6 cell Li-Ion Battery ( 2.4 Ah ) 1
Power cord: Country Pack North America 1
Language Pack: Language Pack US English 1

R400:

Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo Processor P8600 (2.40GHz 1066MHz 3MBL2) 25W 1
Operating System: Genuine Windows Vista Home Basic 1
Operating System Language: Genuine Windows Vista Home Basic US English 1
System graphics: Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 4500MHD w/ 1394 1
Total memory: 1 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 SDRAM 1067MHz SODIMM Memory (1 DIMM) 1
Keyboard: Keyboard US English 1
Pointing Device: UltraNav (TrackPoint and TouchPad) 1
Hard Drive: 160 GB Hard Disk Drive, 5400rpm 1
Optical device: CD-RW/DVD-ROM 24x/24x/24x/8x Max Combo Ultrabay Enhanced (Serial ATA) 1
System expansion slots: Express Card Slot & PC Card Slot 1
Wireless LAN card: ThinkPad WiFi (BGN) 1
Battery: 4 cell Li-Ion Battery 1
Power cord: Country Pack North America with Line cord & 65W AC adapter 1
Language Pack: Language Pack US English 1

T400:

Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo Processor P8600 (2.40GHz 1066MHz 3MBL2) 25W 1
Operating system: Genuine Windows Vista Home Basic 1
Operating system language: Genuine Windows Vista Home Basic US English 1
System graphics: Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 4500MHD with vPro 1
Total memory: 2 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 SDRAM 1067MHz SODIMM Memory (2 DIMM) 1
Keyboard: Keyboard US English 1
Pointing device: UltraNav (TrackPoint and TouchPad) 1
Hard drive: 160 GB Hard Disk Drive, 5400rpm 1
Optical device: CD-RW/DVD-ROM Combo 24X/24X/24X/8X Max, Ultrabay Slim (Serial ATA) 1
System expansion slots: Express Card Slot & PC Card Slot 1
Wireless card: ThinkPad WiFi (BGN) 1
Mobile Broadband: Integrated Mobile Broadband upgradable 1
Battery: 4 cell Li-Ion Battery 1
Power cord: Country Pack North America with Line cord & 65W AC adapter 1
Language pack: Language Pack US English 1

They are essentially the same machines in terms of specs.

SL400=$694 (had to match T series)
R400 = $719 (had to match T series)
T400 = $789

For the SL400, it actually makes more sense than an R400 price wise. THe starting price is also lower.

 

The SL is not as well built. The better construction has value.

I believe that to be incorrect.

 

SL will make sense if you include roll cage and Thinkvantage from R series. It is easier to manage R than SL because the tool software is almost alike.

In our organization i think what will happen we will deploy SL for lower management and skipped Dell entirely. So X series for upper, R for middle and SL for lower.

If you go to spec argument, i think most of spec for business user is almost alike. Please differentiate between "industry spec" which is mostly derived from Intel, and "Thinkpad spec". The factor is how to differentiate between level of users and "features of the same thinkpad brand" while still considering price factor. R series is coming to fill the gap.

 

I just spoke with my friend from IT dept. He comment like this :

"I think T series become irrelevant for our organization, not R. T series is too big for boardroom, too expensive for mass deployment and the (thinkpad) feature is almost alike. Why should i chose T? T is very appealing for personal laptop, but inefficient in mass-buying"

 

So your "company" likes low build quality laptops?

 

Yea, technically incorrect cause it _is_ slightly cheaper in that spec I had provided there and it seems like for all builds also. Upgrade costs look the same anyway. But that price difference right now (with the lenovo discount) is like $60US between the T and the R. From that the SL is cheaper than the R by a couple of tens of dollars at the same spec. Of course, the starting price SL < R < T.



But yes, the build construction has value over the SL. But then doesnt the T also have extras build construction improvements also? (It seems they have the same roll cage construction and look wise, but I hear the T has rubberized finish on the cover etc?) Nowadays that gap of build quality between R and T has narrowed. So maybe nowadays for a solid construction R and T are pretty much the same deal. But, back then when I had my R series the build construction was obviously different to the T series at marginally cheaper cost to the point where it probably made more sense to go T series for a better construction. In terms of cost per year, my current T series out performs my old R series (R32) by far because my T series is still running today at 4 years in and my R series had lasted me about 2 years back then before I had issues with the harddrive (although I suspect it can last longer, probably just a defective drive). Regardless, the difference in build construction between the R and the T was quite large though at least back then. I still have both laptops and to me its pretty significant. The plastic construction of my R3x series is very thin compared to the T4x series.

 

The quality of R is very close to T now, starting R400 series.

 

The R Series Key Differences:

• R500 lacks a roll cage on its cover (R400 has it though)
• Lacks WWAN capability
• Lacks a dedicated graphics option
• Only supports 4 GB memory max (T series supports 8 GB max)
• Slightly thicker and heavier than the T series

Full comparison chart here.

All things considered, I would say that the R series has more value than the T series, unless the items I listed above bother you. In terms of build quality, the R400 model is basically the same as the T400, as it also features a roll cage on its cover. I went with the T400 on my order because I liked the idea of a hybrid graphics option for personal use.

 

even the finish there are differences right? can anyone confirm for the new series?

I was under the impression the new R series are full plastic only finish but T series adds the rubberized layer on top of some surfaces?

But anyway thats what I mean though, whats the point of the R series from the perspective of lenovo? Why not just make one line that is the hybrid T and R series, and then have SL series. Unless they want a wide product range but the difference seems so minimalistic that they should focus their efforts on making one line of higher quality than two lines that are indistinguishable now.

The SL series is what R series used to be. R is basically a T series now with lower specs and very marginally cheaper.

 

The SL doesn't count in R-to-T comparisons... no reinforced construction... lower-quality keyboards and touchpads... glossy screens...

It's oh-kay for very general desk use, but there are ideaPads that are better.

 

No I know it doesnt. I mean SL series is today what R series used to be when it was first introduced.

R series now is basically a lower speced and marginally cheaper T. Its safe to say they are pretty much equivalent. So my point was, what is the point for lenovo to continue the two lines if they are the same anyway. Especially when SL is doing the job of the R series when it was first introduced for that purpose. Back then R series was advertised as the cheaper business alternative to T series. This is what SL series is today.

So I think they could pull their resources together to spend more designing a more solid T series than making T and R that are essentially the same thing

 

I did make a rant about this when they introduce 3000 series and Z series. Too many lines with only subtle differentiation.

Now, the history repeat itself, eventhough not exactly the same. I think SL series, even though claimed to be used by small business, have better features toward multimedia such as glossy lid, better speaker, hdmi out, etc. Z series have similar situation, is the first one which introduce titanium lid and wide screen. Lenovo eventually phased out these series for reason i do not know, maybe they eventually realize having too many line to handle.

Being a Z user, it was a solid machine and serve me for about 3,5 years.

It is their habit, i think Lenovo tries to get some experiment with combination of design and features within the same Thinkpad realm. If one particular line economically not profitable enough, can create confusion in term of features toward its "sibling", or have minor feedback from their customer, or combination of those, they eventually will slashed out the line.

There are many lines come and go, Thinkpad A, i, G, Z, X, R, T..... and the ones surviving until current Intel industrial standard only X, T and R. I guess large corporate customer base have major contribution of sustainability of these lines.

It is interesting to see the future of SL. But imo, they will almost certain keep the R.

 

That list isn't quite accurate. In europe, at least, the R500 does have a discrete graphics option as mine has a 128MB ATI 3450. I think it may also support WWAN looking at the driver matrix: http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-70439.html, however, mine doesn't have a wwan interface.

Over here in the UK the price difference between the R and T is also much larger than in the states (between £200 and £400 for a similar spec), so I believe there's more of a case for the R/T series availabilities.