x201t tablet screens / LCDs and Grain -- Need some perspectives and opinions

Hi Guys,

My first post here. I have been reading the forum for the past 3 weeks or so, and need some expert opinion / perspective on the lenovo tablets.

Let me give you guys some history. I started out my research for a "good" screen laptop which led me to a variety of posts surrounding how great/godly the x60t and x61t and the SXGA+ res is. And how some would kill to get those screens again! There is an unbelievable amount of posting on other forums as well praising the x61t screen. And people are going as far as modding their x61s to put in the x61t screen!

As luck would have it, ebay had a couple of listing for each one: an x60t with SL2500 and SXGA screen. An x61t with SL7500 and SXGA screen. Both running at 1400 x 1050! So, I bought both!!! Hey, it's only money right Actually both listings had 7 day money back and I figured this was the best way to test out both first hand.

So, I get the x60t first in the mail. Love the screen, Love the res. However, the text isn't as Sharp. Kind of starts to fade after a while -- maybe it's my eyes. But overall, it's nice. Not sharp as my Dell Ultrasharp monitor.

Then I get the x61t in the mail. Definitely an improvement over the x60t. Much sharper LCD - White is whiter, and text really stood out. But what's with that awful Grain! My eyes really started to hurt after a while. And especially on a white background, i.e. any web surfing for any considerable amount of time started giving me a headache.

So, I'm in the process of returning both and essentially back to looking at x200t or x201t's. This is how I first started, but with a lot of people complaining about how the 1280 x 800 res doesn't do justice, I forayed into the x6x tablets.

Anywho, so that was a bit of history. And now on to why I'm posting here.

I need you guys to tell me please which of either the x200 or x201 screens don't have any grain. Which screen edition should I go with? I have read up on the different version of the LCDs there are. The Frameless and the outdoor high Nit LCDs on the x200t. And I understand that grain is a function of the digitizers on the tablets, but I'm hoping there is a version that eliminates grain. Or has very very little of it.

Please advise.

Thanks!

 

It's the multitouch layer that looks grainy so if you don't want grainy screen, then opt for a non multitouch screen.

 

The backlight on the X60t is now five years old, which is why it may have dimmed some. If you're not in a hurry you can wait for the X220 with the IPS screen. Being there's no touch surface, there won't be any grain.

 

@anodize, ZaZ, thanks for your responses.

ZaZ, if I'm not mistaken, you have the frameless superbright screen? I believe I had read that on one of your posts. Is that a multi-touch? And do you find any grain on it.

So, just to sum it up: If I get any of the screen(s), i.e frameless, outdoor, etc, as long as it's not multi-touch, I won't find grain on them. The frameless and outdoor ones are the AFFS+ / IPS panels, that will give me the best LCDs where as the other versions are just TN screens.

Do I have that right?

I could wait for the X220 -- I'll do a search to determine when they start shipping.

Thanks guys!

 

I have a X200T w/ frameless 200-nit LED screen (non-multitouch) and T400 sitting in front of me. The tablet has a significant amount of grain compared to the T400. From what I've been told though it's much less than the X61T and Multi-touch models. The X220 Tablet may have even less, but if you want to eliminate the grain, you'll likely have to go for a notebook (non-tablet) model instead of a tablet. And with the option of IPS screens in the X220 notebook there won't be any drawbacks if you don't need tablet functionality.

 

@vinuneuro - thanks very much. The comparison on the models, really helps put things in perspective.

It sure does sound like I would have to stick with the regular old notebook instead of getting a tablet. Would all X220 model have the IPS screen?

On the other hand, I'm surprised to see how Apple is getting such phenomenal displays on the iPads. Especially, with twice the resolution on the iPad 2!

 

IPS is optional in the X220.

Yea Apple is pretty consistent in using good screens. I was floored when I saw my dad's first-gen iPad the first time.

 

Do you guys think the x41 also has the same grain issue? I was thinking that I could get that one cheap on ebay while I wait for the X220. Thoughts?

 

As an X201T owner with firsthand "grain experience," when you raise the brightness enough, the grainyness stops being an issue.
However, it still bugs me that Lenovo did not care to reveal this issue properly.

 

@lighthouse084, thanks for your response.

So you raise it to +12/15 and then it goes away. But the extra brightness has got to be hurting your eyes? Wouldn't it be like looking into a fluorescent bulb all day long.

I agree. Lenovo should have disclosed this info.

 

It depends.
If you are sleep deprived, then the brightness will hurt you and affect your "computer stamina." Your eyes will burn up and dry out faster.
However, if you started your computing session with stress-free eyes, you should be able to handle it.

Reading text has never been a problem.
However, when you look at a different screen, like one on your smartphone, you immediately see the difference and wish that your computer screen looked like that.

 

Lenovo knows that this is a problem.
Take a look at the X220T's specs: http://shop.lenovo.com/ISS_Static/ww/wci/us/ww/pdf/x220_tablet_datasheet.pdf

12.5" HD, 300 NIT WV (IPS), 2 finger touch/5 finger gesture, Infinity Glass
12.5" HD, 300 NIT WV (IPS), Corning Gorilla direct bond, pen

I still think that these tablets are not ready for prime-time use.
The software and cost just can't support it, yet.

Nonetheless, I think that screen quality should be getting better.

The odd thing is that the best screens are being released on smartphones like Samsung Galaxy S and iPhone.

 

With the 200-nit screen, it's an issue even at full brightness. At 300-nit (Superbright) it should be much less, and maybe completely a non-issue at 400-nit (Outdoor). There are some members here who have those screens, so maybe they can comment. Iirc, Erik as the Superbright and unreal has the Outdoor.

 

i have the frameless (pen-only) LED BOE Hydis AFFS+ panel on my X200T.   it's by far the most rare of the tablet panels and arguably the best overall (IMHO).

i draw/sketch with it fairly often have zero complaints about grain.   i've owned or used every thinkpad tablet variant put on the market.   then again, i'm about the last person to complain about my equipment.

due to the inevitable upgrade though, my X200T is up for sale.

 

@lighthouse084, I see what you are saying about drying out your eyes. I already have that problem - dry left eye Go figure -- Only one of them.

With respect to the X220 screens, are you saying that both of them would still have the graininess issue? For me, just reading it as "Infinity / Corning" glass, sounds good. Maybe it's just fancy words they throw down on the specs but it doesn't do diddly squat!

@vinuneuro - yeah it would be great to hear from Erik or Unreal with their superbright or outdoor screens.

There are two listing on eBay, for each one of those.

 

Oh Hey Erik, thanks for your response! I posted my reply and did a refresh and there you were

So, the X200T that you have, you are looking to sell? And you have no grain on that screen, you say?

Can I pm you to find out what you are asking for it?

Thanks

 

I have the same machine as erik. It's the Hydis AFFS LED LCD, but it's not the SuperBright. It's a very good screen, but there's a bit of grain to it. I hardly notice it any more, but it's a byproduct of having a touchscreen. If you want one without any grain wait for the X220 or do the AFFS mod if you're inclined. If you're interested in erik's machine, here's the link on TPF.

 

Hey ZaZ. Looks like you, Erik and even jonlumpkin, all might have the same machine. Thanks for the link; Erick PM'd me one to his listing.

I'm torn! Really. I know Erik would always have the best of the best, but maybe the X220 outdoes the screen that you guys have.

Are you specifically referring to X220 tablet screen or just the regular X220 notebook screen?

What is this AFFS mod you are referring to? Please give me a link so I can read up on it. Or maybe I can twist Erik's arm to do it for me if I buy his machine

Thanks!

 

it's not a mod.   both ZaZ and i received systems with this panel from the factory.

i just sold mine on TPF not a few minutes ago anyway so you'll have to find one elsewhere.

if i'm not mistaken, jon's system is a CCFL samsung panel.   i'm too busy right now to hunt down the specifics.

 

Erik, thanks for PM'ing and letting me know. I appreciate that.

The mod I'm referring to is what ZaZ mentioned above..... Unless I'm not reading this right.

If I were to hunt for that specific panel, do you know what part no/RFU no it would be?

 

AFFS mod is adding the ccfl tablet panel (no digitizer) to a regular X200 or X201 notebook. It's supposed to look very good compared to the standard screen but also carries the disadvantages of led vs. ccfl backlight.

 

Ah ok... You guys are "LIGHT" years ahead of me with this stuff!! Pun Intended!!

Thanks Sir!

 

to thinkpadboy, what is your current panel? Is it Samsung or Hydis? Run a hardware info program to find out..

 

Is there any way of finding out what screen mine is without opening the seal and running the HWinfo program software?...

It would help, because I hope to check mine and I don't want to break the seal.

 

Hi Anodize, I don't have one. I started out with getting the x60 and x61 tablets off ebay and shippped both back today to their respective sellers. The x60 wasn't as "sharp" and the x61 had "grain / sparkle".

So, I started this thread to find out what screens people are using that have Zero grain.

BTW guys: I came across a listing on ebay for an x200, and he is saying the screen is: * Superbright Outdoor Viewable LED 400nit, 500:1 contrast, Glossy, 1.2% reflectivity, multiple anti-reflectivity layers, Toshiba S-PVA, FRU 13N7272.

Could this be my ticket to grain free heaven?

If not, and since Erik already sold his tablet, I'm waiting for the x220 to hit the streets. Hopefully that'll be soon......

 

@meraki1990, the only thing you could do is lookup the FRU number on IBM's site which will give you the details surrounding the screen.

I believe that would be the thing to do. Other experts may chime in here and provide a better alternative.

 

That doesn't work for some reason with these tablets. My X200T is supposed to have a Superbright according to the serial, but it has a 200nit LED screen. An X201T that passed through my hands had the multi-touch and 200nit led listed in its parts list. I couldn't break the seal on this one, so I called sales to confirm whether or not it has multi-touch and they pulled up their sales order and said it does. So who knows what's going on.

 

Usually multitouch is indicated by "MU" on the parts list.

 

I know of one machine serial that has MU fru listed in its parts list but has a Hydis.

 

ROFLed @ "grain free heaven"

I have the Superbright version of the screen (see some pics here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/len...x200-tablet-outdoor-painting.html#post7140524 ) and yeah I don't see any grain. On the other hand, it's not a perfect screen either but I (can) live with it.

 

@Unreal25. Glad you are able to see this thread and post here. You came up earlier as the one guy that has the "outdoor" screen, so it's good to have your perspective!

Good! No Grain is Good! And I'm glad I was able to bring a smile to your face

But what exactly do you mean by "Not a perfect screen"? What is it about it that is not sitting well with you?

Thanks!

 

@Unreal25 - I took a look at your other post with the pics of your x200. That's a really good post and very informative! And I think now I know why you say "not perfect".

Thanks!

 

If you try to read something with the white background when you're in the tablet mode, you see the brightness effect that I mentioned on one of the pics.

It can look a little awkward because as you look at the screen your right eye doesn't see the reduced brightness on the part of the screen and your left eye does. It took me a bit to get used to it but still bothers me a little (I can't help it... I notice these things ). That happens when you look at it straight perpendicular (and happens because there is a separation between your eye that's wider than the hot spot for the screen obviously).

EDIT: But yeah there's 0 grain tho. And when used in laptop mode it definitely blows many (or most?) non-IPS screen, including the matte AFFS I had.

 

Yup - I agree and do see what you mean by the difference in brightness. I'd probably notice it too..... Considering the little grain / sparkle that bothered me, this will probably bother me too.

So, here is a 64K dollar question for you: At this point in time with the X220 hitting the starts, supposedly in April, with the IPS screens, would you say wait for the X220 or take the outdoor screen listing on ebay?

What would you do if you were in my shoes? Shoe Size: 8 Medium - LOL!!

Thanks!!

 

I'd be screaming like mad, as I wear number 10 (US).

But seriously, depends on the price -- how much is that one on ebay? I bought X200t because it was a new one and cost $600 on Lenovo Outlet. And I don't need anything better because I have another computer for gaming. IPS screen is great, but the $1200 starting price is not. If you plan to spend in the $1K range, I'd wait and see what the X220t base config will look like. (My initial guess is that's going to be without an IPS screen.) Otherwise base specced X220 + IPS seems fine to me too.

I'd warn you though, as you seem to be as picky as I am, you (we) will always find something sub-perfect even on the IPS screen.

 

- LOL!!

I hear ya. Right now, the listing is at $479 and ends in 3 days. So, I think here is what I'll do. I'll keep an eye on it. If it ends up in $600 - $650 range, I'll jump. Otherwise I'm going to wait for the x220.

And really, I'm not much of a tablet guy. This whole business started cuz I was looking for a "notebook" with a perfect screen. But since all notebooks (practically all) have the TN screens with lousy viewing angles and sub par performance, I ended up going the tablet route.

So, I'll just go with the x220 notebook with IPS. The base price on those is $899. Throw on a coupon and I think I'll still be in the sub $1K price point.

Absolutely! But I'd phrase it as 'always in pursuit of perfection!'


Thanks Unreal. Appreciate your input and your time with this.

 

I also have a X200T with outdoor screen. I don't see any grain. Love the screen and never actually have it in full brightness (way too bright indoors). However, I am selling it soon. Getting bored of it already

 

Thanks handai. Appreciate you posting your experience here. No grain is good. And I am going to keep an eye on that ebay listing.

But all in all, it sounds like the X220 might be the sweet spot, with an IPS screen, a longer battery life, faster processor and slightly bigger 12.5 screen.

Though I'm not too sure of the 1366 x 768 res. I have a 11.6 inch Acer, and it runs 1366 x 768, and it's nice. Except it's glossy. So, to be an inch bigger, and still only running 1366 x 768, I'm not sure how it would look.

It would be nice if it was a few pixels higher. This is supposed to be a laptop, not a dvd player!

 

Hey Guys... That listing is at $523 right now for that outdoor screen model.. It'll end in about an hour.

Looks like it might end up in that $600 - $650 range.... Potentially. Unless people bid it up at the tail end.

 

There's always tons of folks bidding near the end unfortunately. I liked this size way more than 11.3" - it's just way too small (imo) in comparison. If you can afford it, maybe try X220 then.

 

Hey Unreal25. Nice to see you are around

Yup - missed it at very tail end. I put in $625 and some clown took it away from me for $640

Kind of bummed out about it.... I guess maybe it's fate that my belongs with the x220!

The only thing that is iffy with the x220 is the res of 1366 x 768. But I guess it is what it is.

But that IPS panel sure is enticing!

 

What were you bidding on? X20Xt /w outdoor screen for $640 is a steal!

 

thinkpadboy just don't get the tablet version this time, it might plague with the same problem.

 

Hey anodize, Yeah - it was teh X200T with Outdoor. Are you saying I should have just bid up to $800 and called it good? You are right - it's not often one of these pop-up on ebay. I do a search every day now that I missed that one


Hi k2001 - When you say "plague" with the same problem, Are you referring to the graininess?

 

On a similar but different note, and tell me if I should start a new thread for this.

Over the last couple of days, I kept thinking to myself, that yes the x220 would be cool to get with the IPS display and all. The only thing that isn't sitting well with me is the 1366 x 768 res.

Call me a putz, but I keep going back to somehow getting the x61 T or non T with an SXGA screen. I don't know why but in my mind, I want that extra real estate on the screen. So I went back to the old threads on how the mods are done to get an SXGA screen in an x61 or x61s notebook.

I'm shying away from getting a tablet anymore because I can't handle the graininess, hence no x61t.

Should I start up a new thread? Would do you guys think? Or should I resurrect the old thread?

 

Or should / could also get the x200 / x200s and do the mod with AFFS+ screen to get a better 1400 x 900 res. screen?