x220 and starcraft 2

Folks:

I traded in an HP 8460p w/ the Radeon 6470M card for the x220. The 3dmark for the HP / radeon was 6000; and with the x220, I have 4600. Resolution is also diff between the machines -- HP was 1600x900 and x220 is 1366x768.

So given the res difference and the fact both machines have the same architecture otherwise (i7 / 8gb ram), I'd have expected that SC 2 performance would be roughly similar.

Nope.

With the HP / radeon, I was getting 40-50 FPS in a 1x1 game on medium settings (auto-detected by SC 2).

With the x220, it couldn't auto-detect settings (and warned me of this), and on a mixture of low / medium settings, I was bouncing between 5 and 50 FPS but jerky as hell.

Anyone have any idea what's up? It doesn't seem like there should be that sort of difference...

Otherwise, the x220 is great. It's light, the screen is bright and beautiful, etc.

 

intel still hasnt got its act together with its drivers yet, thats a probable explanation

 

Agreed ... the HD 3000 benches well but still struggles with 3D gaming. Early reviews noted that. IMO, for most 3D gaming, you still need a dedicated GPU.

Bronsky

 

Playing SC II on the x220 is scary because CPU temps shoot up past 85C.

 

My friend is able to play SC2 on his new 13" Sandy Bridge Macbook Pro at native resolution with decent quality. But as it's been stated, for the latest and greatest 3D games, Intel IGP definitely will be worse than even the most basic discreet graphics.

 

YouTube - Starcraft 2 4v4 on newest Macbook Pro 2011 13" i7 Mac OSX

Here is someone playing a replay of sc2 4v4 on the new macbook pro 13" with the intel hd 3000 graphic. The performance looks decent hovering around 25-50 fps on OSX. It should perform much better on windows 7 on x220.

 

I don't think, and I could be wrong, that Starcraft or Portal 2 performance and cooling was a design point for the X220. Just sayin.

 

cant argue with this statement...


but... computers are compared on specs, and im sure lenovo benefits from that with its ultraportables

i dont see any reasonable scenario where a user should have to go, oh, its hugely powerful components in a chassis that cant handle it....so i shouldnt mind.....

 

I'm just looking for info, and it's way curious that the hd 3000 on the Apple products can run SC and the x220 isn't.

Your statement, though, seems pointless.

 

@Stormslayer: Wasn't there a HD3000 driver patch that was released? Not a Lenovo patch, but an Intel released patch that was supposed to boost graphics performance?

 

It looks like Intel just updated their graphics drivers May 6.

http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Sea...+Graphics&ProdId=3231&LineId=1101&FamilyId=39

You might have to force-install them on a ThinkPad through Device Manager, due to Lenovo's certification process. They should work, though.

 

Well, if you look back at some of my previous posts you'll notice I suggested creating a gaming FAQ or WIKI for ThinkPad gaming enthusiasts. Within that it should be easy to group 3DMark scores, tuning tips, game results, which machines do well, and which machines will melt under the pressure of an intense gaming session.

That of course assumes someone would search for it or read it. Probably why we see so many threads like this start with the most basic question.

I'll try to ignore them for another week or two. Usually by then I burst with snark.

 

Please install the latest version of the intel drivers. I believe the ones which come with the x220 are outdated. Intel seems to have problems with getting proper video drivers out.

The latest video improved performance in many games:

Game Title - Percent Improvement
Batman: Arkham Asylum* v1.1 - Built in Test 18%
BattleForge* 14%
Call of Duty*: Black Ops 37%
Call of Duty*: Modern Warfare 2 11%
Crysis Warhead* v1.00 - benchmark_cargo test 39%
Enemy Territories Quake Wars* 1.5 19%
Far Cry* 2 v 1.03 43%
H.A.W.X.* 2 38%
H.A.W.X.* v1.02 - Built-in Test 28%
Resident Evil* 5 Benchmark – Variable 29%
Starcraft* 2: Wings of Liberty - Devil's Playground 17%
Starcraft* 2: Wings of Liberty – Outlaws 18%


Check the release notes for more information.
http://downloadmirror.intel.com/20036/eng/Intel HD Driver release notes.pdf

 

noob question: how to force-install?

 

Intothefourth, welcome. No problem.

Download the Intel drivers in .ZIP format from their website, using the link in my previous post. Do not download the .EXE file, it will not help you in this case. Unzip the file to a folder.

Go into Device Manager. Find the Intel HD Graphics Family display adapter, right-click on it, and choose "Update Driver". Choose "Browse my computer for driver software".

From the next screen, do not search. Instead, choose "Let me pick from a list of device drivers on my computer". You will be shown compatible hardware, instead, click "Have Disk". When prompted by the next window to specify where, choose "Browse".

Browse to the folder where you unzipped the drivers. From inside this folder, double-click the "Graphics" folder. This is where the drivers are. Click Open. You'll be brought back to the previous screen, which should show the Intel HD Graphics Family as the appropriate driver. Install this.

Note: Upon rebooting your system, you may be asked if you want to open several programs as the system boots to the desktop. If so, these are Intel programs loaded by the driver. Tell the system to allow them to run if this happens.

 

great directions. thanks, LoneWolf15!

 

With my x61, i was able to install the Intel drivers without a force install. I simply uninstalled the lenovo version and then rebooted. After the reboot, I was free to install the latest intel drivers.

Does this work on the x220?

 

I'm not saying it won't work for sure --however, Lenovo is one of several vendors (Dell business laptops like the Latitudes) that make a habit of certifying their drivers --the Intel OEM ones may not install through a setup routine.

I've had nVidia graphics on my T61, switchable on my T400, and Optimus on my T420; I haven't had plain-jane Intel graphics so I haven't had a chance to try.

 

Directly installing the Intel drivers just by running the setup executable should be just fine. It has worked with no problems on my R61 and I have done this on other thinkpads before too. Of course if there is a problem, force installing can be used too.


Has anyone managed to install the new drivers? According to the release notes PDF I posted earlier, there are very significant gains in performance. My x220 is still on its way so I have yet to try them out. Hopefully these drivers make the HD3000 even more impressive.

 

Update:

I added the intel driver from 5/6 (you have to force the instal per the excellent instructions earlier in the thread -- setup won't run).

Results:

3dmark06 is 4660. Within the error term.

SC2 runs miserably (still). If you put settings on medium, you get fps ranging from 1 to 50, but there's more of a low end than a high end.

Just to test parameters, I fiddled with some of the settings by hand. The single graphics option that makes the most different is shader quality -- setting it down to "low" (from medium) improves fps to ~30. There's a caveat though -- that's only if you don't scroll around the screen. Scrolling lowers it against to the high teens.

So at this point, there's no comparison at all to the radeon card -- the radeon isn't an great shakes, but it plays SC2 well on medium out of the box.

And there's the mystery of why the Mac, with the same i7 and hd 3000, can run SC2.

 

What do you get when you run everything on low? (Some people don't care about the graphics at all and would rather just have a game that plays).

 

That proves its not a mystery but indeed a crappy driver issue.

 

Clearly its a driver problem of some type. The HD3000 on that macbook and the HD3000 on the x220 are exactly the same. Intel seriously needs to start giving us better drivers.

stormslayer, can you give the specs of your system? How much RAM do you have?

 

I have the i7, and 8gb of g.skill ram.

 

So you really do have the same setup as the mac. I guess it can only be a driver or some software issue. I'll have to try SC2 on my machine too when I get it to see if this is a widespread issue. Hopefully we can get a fix soon.

 

YouTube - Starcraft 2 on Sandy Bridge Notebook at IDF 2010

F-ing intel.

 

Is there another sandy bridge based windows laptop that can play SC2 smoothly on the HD3000?

 

Then we could blame Lenovo instead.

Now, that would rock.

 

Intel HD Graphics 3000 - Notebookcheck.net Tech

In these benches on SC2, the hd 3000 is above 20 fps on medium, and indistinguishable from the radem 6470m. Hurm.

Maybe it is Lenovo, though that seems hard to imagine. Chips, mb's, and the rest are commodities; it's not like a lenovo thinkpad is going to be different from anything else, especially at the point where it yields the right 3dmar06 but not SC2.

 

Thermals. In my experience the X220 hits its power limit which results in the GPU clock dropping dramatically, which kills performance.

 

Fair enough, but Lenovo put a 35W CPU in the X220 and that's what they should have designed the cooling for. On Sandy Bridge CPUs the thermal budget is shared between the CPU and GPU, so the combination of the two should not be exceeding the TDP.

I ended up returning my X220 because of this very reason. It's clear that the cooling in the X220 is inadequate for prolonged high CPU or GPU usage. I play games on my laptop (primarily WoW) and also do long computations, and I don't want my CPU hitting 90C because of it.

I would not recommend an X220 to people who want to game or do long CPU-heavy computations. Short bursts of high-CPU (which are more typical) are fine.

 

I think people complain because there have been a lot of (misleading?) reviews of X220 by now, by many different websites bragging how X220 can play games. Yet, no one happened to mention the "minor" fact that the CPU is boiling during you're doing that. Only after the users actually bought the machine, is when they saw the worrying temperatures and noise.

Then what's the point of SB CPU if you can't do that? Bragging rights? Might as well just get the older X201/X200 + you get a 9.5mm drive as a bonus.

 

Unlikely. 3dmark06 takes minutes to run and has no issues. The FPS I'm reporting for SC 2 are seconds into the game; no heat is present.

 

Before I read this thread I already thought the cooling on this laptop wasn't adequate, and I haven't even tried to play a game on it yet. Not only that but the fan is high pitched and annoying. Disappointed...

 

Temperature seems fine based off of this review. Lenovo ThinkPad X220 Review - Notebook Reviews by MobileTechReview
59-62 degrees C after gaming.

 

Hmm, have any of you tried Left for Dead 2? Although, the only game I care about my laptop running is starcraft 2.

 

I'd be happy with Plants vs. Zombies.

 

Cool, thanks for your input.

 

Could this be a windows driver issue? Notebookcheck saw some throttling with the mbp 13" i7 2620 in windows too.

Review Apple MacBook Pro 13 Early 2011 (2.7 GHz dual-core, glare-type screen) - Notebookcheck.net Reviews

 

"If you do get the X220 make sure to enable Intel's Turbo Boost and Lenovo Turbo Boost+ so you can run games as smoothly as possible. You can access these features via Lenovo's Power Manager."

from Jesse B Andersen: Lenovo ThinkPad X220 Tablet - Graphics Performance (3d gaming)

could this be the problem?

 

Maybe try GameBooster? I remember a video that showed SC2 on all low performing consistently okay on the GMA 4500.

 

You can't measure the temperature 'after' gaming because the temperature drops dramatically and quickly as soon as the load drops. You can verify this yourself using a program like RealTemp.

My X220's core temperature regularly exceeded 90C and at points got to 95C during gaming.

 

HD 6470m is way way better than HD 3000. The 6470m is almost on par with a GT 520m and similar with gt/nongt 320.

HD 3000 is just on par with the entry level dedicated geforce 310m and that's only if the hd 3000 is paired with the fastest 2nd gen desktop cpu. That is why you see other hd 3000 doing better than other hd 3000 since if the cpu paired with it is slower, then the gpu clocks are also slower.

 

This is true, but I'd like to point out that aside from the 2410M, all the other mobile sandy bridge CPUs have exactly the same GPU clocks. Though the desktop HD3000s, like the i7 2600K has a higher max dynamic clock (and base).

Of course a faster CPU will probably always help 3d performance.

 

In bios I changed the CPU's performance while plugged in to "balanced" from "performance," and I change the intel graphics power setting to "balanced" from "maximum." My gaming temps seem to be much cooler now. I haven't noticed a huge hit in performance either.

 

This is what I do on the T420 when I play League of Legends with a buddy. Temps never hit 85 on my machine while gaming with the Lenovo Turbo Boost mode, as that setting manually puts your fan on the highest mode possible and keeps the CPU nice and frosty (relatively speaking).

 

I'm sure you just mean i5s and i7s, but the i3 also has a lower graphics clock:

Compare Intel® Products,

 

Although that's a german site, there are a lot of benchmarks with some games. For example you can choose the Intel HD 3000 and then see how much average fps the benchmarkers have got.

Welche Spiele laufen auf Notebook Grafikkarten flüssig? - Notebookcheck.com Technik/FAQ

Just choose the Intel HD 3000 and then press "Einschränken" at the top. Or you look at those thousands of benchmarks^^

On low settings, starcraft 2 runs very good with 69 (!) average fps on the testers' notebooks. But Medium only with 21 fps..

 

Here's another data point. I have the i7 2620m. The system was plugged in, on maximum performance with lenovo/turboboost enabled. As far as I can tell, the fan was on maximum. Temps are in centigrade and were measured with realtemp. I'm using the Lenovo April drivers (not the newest Intel version) and in native res.

System idles at 40-42c

SC2 20min game 1v1 vs AI, all settings at low except for shaders at medium. Temps generally in the mid 70s with Tmax up to 80c. FPS are 30-40 in my base and in high teens during battles. It works, though it's definitely not as smooth as my desktop. It's much faster with shaders set at low, but then it looks like SC1.

Portal 2 runs great--there are a few minor framerate hiccups but in general a nearly equivalent experience to my desktop. Temps are in the mid to low 70s, with Tmax at 79c.

 

Before anyone puts there faith into one or two reports or high temps, please read this part of the thread linked below..

http://forum.notebookreview.com/lenovo-ibm/576922-x220-owners-poll-5.html