x260 and NVMe

I'm trying to figure out the x260's support for NVMe SSDs. (Note: The T460's psref has similar wording. No indication of M.2 SSD support).

Since it's a light Skylake laptop, I'd assumed it would support M.2, but judging by the psref I'm not so sure.

Under storage it says:

Some: SSD / SATA 6.0Gb/s, 2.5" wide, 7mm high
Some: SSD / PCIe NVMe, PCIe 3.0 x 2, 16Gb/s, 2.5" wide, 7mm high
Some: HDD / SATA 6.0Gb/s, 2.5" wide, 7mm or 9.5mm high, Shock Mounted Hard Drive, Active Protection System
Some: SSHD with 8GB NAND flash memory​

Does this mean the x260 lacks M.2 SSD support? If so, the only other NVMe port I'm aware of is U.2/SFF-8639, which is limited to very expensive server-oriented SSDs. That seems unlikely.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

 

X260 does not support any kind of M.2 SSD. The PCIe NVMe SSD used in T460/X260 is a 2.5" SATA Express PCIe 3.0 x2 256 GB SSD, which is not yet available.

 

[Nerd tantrum]. Dang. It's hard to justify buying a laptop with storage tech that's outdated when it's new.

Thanks for the info.

 

i have read that it has an M.2 42mm SSD slot that is there for WWAN but also accepts M.2 SATA so NOT NVMe, I believe i also saw a video on youtube with a lenovo rep stating this

the biggest problem with M.2 up until this point is the fact that there was no 1TB size available but now they are finally coming out with them (the problem is that the 1tb EVO 850 will likely be 80mm not 42mm, and that's a big problem)...the M.2 SATA should still run at about 500MB/s which is perfectly fast enough for me for a windows drive which is how id use it

but yes its a shame NVMe isn't getting implemented when its already available and is the new standard

from my point of view they replaced mSATA 1TB with 512GB 42mm M.2 (which is also SATA so isn't even faster in a thinkpad)...so that's a clear downgrade and now 2 years later 42mm M.2 still hasn't caught up to mSATA in capacity so why should I upgrade

if they absolutely needed to switch to M.2 before 1TB parts were available then they should have either put in an 80mm slot or (2) 42mm slots to make up for it...or made it NVMe so they could at least justify it from a speed upgrade viewpoint

also id like to add that NVMe M.2 run MUCH hotter than the older mSATA drives, to the point where there may be a need for a fan or heatsink implementation in order to for them to be usable in laptops

 

X260 does not accept any M.2 42 mm SSD, be it SATA or NVMe (42 mm NVMe SSDs don´t exist anyway).

 

CES 2016 at 1:55 guy says "M.2 SATA SSD"

http://psref.lenovo.com/syspool\Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad X260/ThinkPad_X260_Platform_Specifications.pdf

here it says that it has an M.2 slot for WWAN, which in the past x-series is where the SSD went

as a disclaimer i do not know for certain just presenting what is out there

 

I guess we'll have to see if SATA M.2 works in practice, despite the lack of official support. I'm sure someone will make a post.

SATA Express is odd though. With no 2.5" SATAe/M.2 enclosures, and no SATAe SSDs on the market, the decision to support NVMe via SATAe is truely bizarre. It's a useless interface!

Personally, I may still buy an x260, since its the only ultra-portable with a removable battery and full-size Ethernet. I might, however, put it on ebay next year if the x270 is equipped properly.

EDIT: If the t460s ends up supporting an extended/slice battery, I might end up going that route instead. I need all-day battery and portability before anything else.

 

It has been tested with the X260 already, it doesn´t work.

SATA Express was chosen as a way to get NVMe SSDs to run in models like X260/T560/T460, without changing the basic design. These machines are all based on the designs of X250/T550/T450, which means they all had to keep the 2.5" drive. So Lenovo can offer NVMe SSDs now without developing a completely new chassis/mainboard and still keep the SATA HDD/SSD compatibility.

I don´t think T460s will get support for a Slice battery. If Lenovo had such an option, they would have already announced it and started to market it alongside the T460s.

 

Does this mean U.2 drives, such as Intel's 2.5" 750 Series, will work at PCIe x2 speed?

 

No. U.2 =! SATA Express. SATA Express works at PCIe x2 speed, U.2 at PCIe x4 speed. U.2 SSDs are thicker and get hotter, and use much more energy then SATA Express SSDs.

 

so x260 doesn't even support M.2 SATA SSD?

 

No, it doesn´t. Lenovo stopped offering the M.2 cache SSDs they still offered with X240/X250, thats why X260 doesn´t support M.2 SSDs anymore.

 

Best guess: the NVMe option will be an OEM-only 2.5" Toshiba XG3. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/toshiba-xg3-ssd-ocz-revodrive-400,4434.html The XG3 is the only SATA Express drive I've found in existence, although it's still not possible to order.

Maybe, if we're lucky, this drive will become available for a reasonable price via NewEgg or Amazon. Fingers crossed.

 

has anyone on the forum tried sticking one into the WWAN slot?

that's a huge downgrade in storage options if that's the case

there are 2.5" 4TB SSD's incoming this year, but i dont understand why they would cut out such a useful feature as an M.2 SSD

 

Someone in China tried with a SATA M.2 SSD, and it didn't work.

This page loads very slowly, but it clearly shows the SSD isn't recognized: https://translate.google.com/transl...&cd=11&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&edit-text=&act=url

 

is it possible there is an internal BIOS whitelist for compatible SSD?

is the SATA connector for the 2.5" drives in the x260 the same as the older models?

 

No, there is no SSD whitelist.

Yes, its likely the Toshiba XG3. However, you still need the SATA Express cable to get it working.

 

so basically everything besides the t460s is using SATA-Express bus even for NVMe SSD's, which basically limits the speed of the SSD's...do i have that right?

I assume the next generation of 2.5" drives is going to be U.2 connectors with full NVMe bandwidth?

 

For future reference, here are the part numbers for the SATA Express drives.

SATA Express cable: 01AW445 (from parts list https://download.lenovo.com/parts/ThinkPad/x260_frubom_20160127.pdf)

Toshiba XG3 2.5" SSD
1 TB: THNSN51T02CJ7
512 GB: THNSN5512GCJ7

Either that or M.2. The Skylake-era config seems like a band-aid solution, so they don't have to redesign everything just yet. Also, it lets them offer a cheap version with a HDD.

I'm fine with it so long as these XG3 SSDs are easy enough to get. 2GB/sec is still extremely fast.

 

pretty poor progress with this generation...does the t460s not have USB 3.1 either?

im amazed how long it's taking them to include USB 3.1 in laptops considering that SSD's max out 3.0 so easily

 

These are the skylake machines with M.2 NVMe support:

• Yoga 260
• X1 Yoga
• X1 Carbon (Gen 4)
• T460s
• P50
• P70

All of these models have a new, redesigned chassis. Other machines like T460, T560, P50s, X260 use the same chassis as the older models, they only have the SATA Express solution as an option for PCIe SSDs.

Its unclear what will happen with the next generations. If I may speculate: I think the 2.5" slot woll go away for most models (besides workstations like P50/P70).

 

it looks like my only real option is a 4TB SSD if im going to keep my same storage capacity upgrading to x260...holding off on upgrade for several years now but integrated graphics in x230 are trash so kind of forced to at this point

 

Any idea which drives the X1 Carbon will get? and is heat a really big concern with these NVMe drives? I'm thinking "battery life, battery life battery"

 

I think Lenovo uses SM951 PCIe SSDs by Samsung, which is the OEM model of the Samsung 950 Pro.

 

Mind if I ask what makes you say that? I haven't heard of a SATA Express version of that drive.

Edit: Ahh, I didn't read. Got it.

 

Ehm....sheFs was talking about X1 Carbon, which uses M.2 drives, not SATA Express drives...

The SATA Express SSD they are using in X260/T460/T560 are from Toshiba. But thats not what sheFs asked about.

 

Sorry to hijack the thread away from the x260. I'm now wondering if these nvme drives would really have that much of a benefit over standard m.2 SSDs? Surely there wouldn't be any noticeable difference in opening (very) large excel sheets, transferring large piles of data. Or am I mistaken? Apologies for the n00b question.

 

M.2 can be SATA or NVMe, there's no such thing as a 'standard' M.2, if you're asking NVMe vs SATA Express then yes there is a large difference and even bigger difference vs. SATA3

 

Sorry, I meant the SATA vs NVMe on M.2 as in the X1 Carbon.

 

Hey!

Yes I tried to plug an ADATA Premier SP600 m.2 2242 in the wwan slot and I wasn't able to make it work.

 

well all I can say is that really sucks and is a step backwards from the x230....its probably a BIOS blacklist problem...maybe in the future an open bios will be made for it

basically this means i have to either get a 4TB SSD or wait until the next generation thinkpad to upgrade

 

I think the M.2 slot just lacks the necessary SATA lanes.

 

We can order the XG3 on our own via retail channels??

 

If you Google the part numbers you'll find that, no, you can't yet buy the XG3 with SATA Express. In the future, who knows? We've been able to order the T560 with it for a while now, but I haven't seen other NVMe drives with this interface.

Personally, I bought an X1 Carbon, and I love it! At least it has real, usable NVMe, and not just this imaginary kind.

 

I know this is quite an old discussion now but I've noticed that recently Lenovo have started offering what they say is NVMe as an option on the X260 ordering page:

• 256 GB Solid State Drive PCIe-NVMe OPAL2.0 - Capable

Maybe this is a M2.2242 PCIe SSD, in which case presumably the 2.5" SATA bay is still free.

I think that suggests it's using the WWAN slot, though the online configuration page suggests you can order this drive with either Huawei or Sierra WIreless mobile broadband (unless that's a mistake).

 

I'm now pretty sure that is Lenovo configuration tool fault - the M2 NVMe card must go in the same PCIe slot as the WWAN card.
https://download.lenovo.com/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/x260_hmm_en_sp40j72016_01.pdf

 

I believe the PCIe NVMe is just like T460 where it is actually still a 2.5" form factor but with this connection interface.

Anyway I'm on a T460s so I can just swap my M.2 SATA3 for an M.2 PCIe NVMe next time

 

Tl;dr X260 does not support M.2 ssd. But X250 did, so you might go for that one, also installing win7 in X250 will be without an issue (unlike X260). Why Lenovo would STOP supporting M.2 ssd on newer models is beyond me.

This is an old topic, its already understood that Lenovo Thinkpad X260 does not support M.2 ssd, despite having a M.2-socket intended for WWAN/LTE/4G. Just giving some feedback if someone is searching on M.2 ssd support in the X260 as I did.

Previously Lenovo gave out specs sheets on some models stating that they support M.2 ssd which was wrong!!
Lenovo have mistakenly stated that some models supports M.2 ssd which they do NOT;
This is regarding T460s but the same issue regarding M.2 support.
https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-T400-T500-and-newer-T/M-2-SSD-support-removed/m-p/3331764
"On behalf of Lenovo, please accept my apologies for the confusion. The T460 was never designed to work with a M.2 SATA drive. The inclusion of this specification in the HMM was an accident, and the HMM is now in the process of being updated to provide the correct information."
(This info is old, I dont know these days what drives work with T460/T460s.)

Not sure if T460s support M.2 ssd; https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-T400-T500-and-newer-T/M-2-SSD-support-removed/m-p/3331764
And probably they wont make M.2 ssd supported in newer interations of X270.
Though as this guy did, X250 does actually support M.2 ssd in the WWAN socket (watch 6:25 - 8:03):
So some previous Lenovo generations looks like they supported M.2 ssd (like X250 support it, and X260 does not support it.
Funny thing is, installing win7 with a bootable usb on x260 was a B*TCH due to no usb 3.0 drivers and UEFI related issues, such issues did not exist in X250, honestly would have bought X250 instead if I know all this, then I would have easily installed any OS and would have got a working M.2 ssd.

I have tried as well an (Adata Premier SP600NS34 256gb M.2 SATA-600, type 2242, 42mm length) on a Thinkpad X260, I have tried everything, updating BIOS to latest version, have tried to downgrade BIOS to factory version, tried to downgrade to first BIOS version available, have tried every disk management program available, have tried checking disks using Linux Mint, I have never (previously) failed to detect any drive using Linux. M.2 ssd not detectable in Win7, Win10, Linux Mint, not detectable in any BIOS version.
I can not find the M.2 ssd when its in the M.2-WWAN-socket, X260 does not simply support it.

My ssd is Samsung in my X260, but there exists official Toshiba storage drivers for the x260, so perhaps some regions, specs or versions are using Toshiba ssd.

 

There is m.2 adapter which should work I guess, anyone tried to fit one of these?


http://www.mfactors.com/l12s-m-2-ngff-extender-board-please-see-p12s-p12f-new-p-n/
"Also adds functionality to USB 3.0, display Port, SDIO and SSD-PCIe"


http://www.microsatacables.com/m2-ngff-extender-cable-for-m2-ngff-bm-key-sata-ssd-m2-extcbl-bm

https://www.amazon.com/Sintech-NGFF...UTF8&qid=1462225703&sr=8-16&keywords=m.2+2242