z60t dim screen pics?

Hi,

Thank you for all the very helpful info

After alot of searching I finally found the notebook with exactly what I needed with the z60t. But after reading abaxter's excellent z60t review, other posts here and other reviews, everyone talks about the screen being dim. This is not good news because I will be using it on the train for 2 hours a day plus visiting alot of different client offices, and hopefully chilling on the balcony at home

And the problem is there is nowhere here in Brisbane, Australia to see one for myself.

The pics from abaxters excellent z60m review worry me alot, click for full-size ..





No retailers in Brisbane stock IBM let alone the new models and I have spoken to Lenovo several times and all they can recommend is I contact their resellers (very helpful .. not). However all their resellers either buy on demand, or if they have stock on hand it is in Lenovo sealed boxes that they will not open. With the z60t being very new there is no-one anyone can recommend I visit to see one either.

Please if you have a z60t can you please post some pics of the screen, maybe the vertical viewing angles and around sunlight? I know this is alot to ask but I have run out of options, and any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much!

I am surprised they put the bright screen in the z60m which is more likely to be a desktop replacment, but not in the portable z60t that like abaxter said with the EV-DO capability in the USA would enable you to work in the park or anywhere outside while connected?

Cheers,
LikwidSh0k

 

Well, I don't have any Z60t screen pictures for you, but instead I can provide you with some by an independent lab taken measurements for the Z60t TFT, so you can compare it with other TFT panels.

Z60t TFT panel data:
--------------------

- Contrast min./enh. viewfield: 314:1/186:1
- Luminance: 13...139 cd/m²
- Viewing angles horiz./vert.: +/-50°/ +21°, -64°
...
...
- Loudness with CPU load: 0,7 Sone
- Loudness with HDD/ CD/DVD: 0.3 Sone/1.9 Sone


You can see, the Z60t TFT panel isn't that bright (max. 139 cd/m² , usually for outside working you would need at least a TFT panel with a luminance of >=150 cd/m². However, the Thinkpad T43 14,1" TFT panel for example is even dimmer with max. 122 cd/m².

In order for you to take some comparisons with other notebooks 14" TFT panel:

• Thinkpad T43 14" XGA
  - Contrast min./enh. viewfield: 216:1/134:1
  - Luminance: 12...122 cd/m²
  - Viewing angles horiz./vert.: +/-51°/ +20°, -60°
• Acer TM 3222WXMi
  - Contrast min./enh. viewfield: 432:1/246:1
  - Luminance: 2...165 cd/m²
  - Viewing angles horiz./vert.: +/-48°/ +28°, -57°
• Benq Joybook S72
  - Contrast min./enh. viewfield: 292:1/173:1
  - Luminance: 35...167 cd/m²
  - Viewing angles horiz./vert.: +/-44°/ +23°, -59°
• Dell Inspiron 630m
  - Contrast min./enh. viewfield: 524:1/293:1
  - Luminance: 13...109 cd/m²
  - Viewing angles horiz./vert.: +/-50°/ +22°, -55°
• Dell Latitude D610
  - Contrast min./enh. viewfield: 376:1/228:1
  - Luminance: 17...142 cd/m²
  - Viewing angles horiz./vert.: +/-50°/ +25°, -58°
• FUS Lifebook S7020
  - Contrast min./enh. viewfield: 393:1/220:1
  - Luminance: 12...102 cd/m²
  - Viewing angles horiz./vert.: +/-51°/ +23°, -61°
• HP nc6220
  - Contrast min./enh. viewfield: 454:1/274:1
  - Luminance: 45...125 cd/m²
  - Viewing angles horiz./vert.: +/-50°/ +28°, -55°
• LG LW40
  - Contrast min./enh. viewfield: 776:1/435:1
  - Luminance: 8...131 cd/m²
  - Viewing angles horiz./vert.: +/-50°/ +23°, -55°
• Panasonic Toughbook CF-73
  - Contrast min./enh. viewfield: 503:1/292:1
  - Luminance: 6...203 cd/m²
  - Viewing angles horiz./vert.: +/-53°/ +24°, -59°
• Samsung X1
  - Contrast min./enh. viewfield: 438:1/257:1
  - Luminance: 8...130 cd/m²
  - Viewing angles horiz./vert.: +/-48°/ +22°, -60°

 

Thank you very much vkyr, thats brilliant!

Its great to have a number to use and I did some googling with 'cd/m²' and found that the x41 also runs at 139 and the z60m with the MaxBright screen runs at 242, almost double the z60t which explains the huge difference in the pics.

Now I am even more baffled by their decision not to include the MaxBright in the more portable z60t aswell?

Thanks also for the full list too, now I can check out some of the other machines which are on display locally to compare

Hopefully they will include the MaxBright in the z60t soon, but it will probably be to late for me.

Cheers

 

Note that your referenced images from Abxter's review above don't show a MaxBright TFT panel and thus the 242 cd/m² luminance value isn't valid for that shown display. The higher 242 cd/m² values have been measured only for a 15,4 Zoll 1280 x 800 MaxBright TFT so far.


Note also that a X41 TFT panel has:

- Contrast min./enh. viewfield: 270:1/172:1
- Luminance: 22...125 cd/m²
- Viewing angles horiz./vert.: 50°/ 60°, 25°

...and the X41 Tablet PC TFT instead:

- Contrast min./enh. viewfield: 604:1/558:1
- Luminance: max. 124 cd/m²
- Viewing angles all directions: > 80°

 

Couldn't find a dealer to manufacture a MaxBright 14" wide panel...

If it's of any comfort to you, they'll probably never include MaxBright or anything similar in the Z60t.

 

wow, nice help by vykr here -- thanks so much for such a detailed response.

as vykr says, the Z60m I had was not the MaxBright but all the same was still significantly brighter than the Z60t screen on the review units I had last year. The screen brightness of the Z60t was rather disappointing given the fact many other widescreen notebooks just really standout with their brightness. If you're using the notebook on a train it just depends as to whether you're next to the window and exposed to a lot of sun as to whether the Z60t screen would be okay -- if you're away from directl sunlight then it's just fine and at night it'd of course be good. A lot of sun and you'll be squinting to read the screen.

 

Thanks again guys for all the help, very much appreciated.

Sorry about misquoting your review abaxter, but at 2am MaxBright seemed like a likely explanation for the huge difference in the pics coz I *really* want to buy the z60t. After a month of searching the z60t has exactly what I need: portable 14.1 widescreen, lots of ram for vmware, no gpu coz dont want to pay for want I wont use, cool operation, excellent keyboard, strong build quality, bluetooth and TVout.

Based on the numbers looks like thinkpads have always had relatively dim screens and the z60m finally gets a nice bright one, just very disappointing and surprising the z60t didn't get one aswell. Its very frustrating especially with what appears to be a more consumer oriented push with widescreen, touchpad and titanium that they don't have any displays over here to promote their new product.

Would still be very happy and appreciative if anyone could please post some pics of their z60t?

I will be working from home aswell (hence chilling on the balcony - sorry about that, not at night but also working from home during the day) and will be buying one of these babies aswell to hook it up to - Viewsonic VA1912WB

Thanks again!

Cheers

 

I visited my local Office Depot a few weeks ago to check out the Z60T and must say I was pretty dissapointed with the screen. After being used to the new glossy screens found on many consumer notebooks, the matte screen on the Z60T looked quite dull and dim, even for a matte screen. I kept hoping that it wasn't on the maximum brightness setting but it was, and was still pretty dim. Its not a bad screen, but will look that way when you're used to looking at Sony's X-Brite screens and such.

 

If you don't insist on it being widescreen or having a Windows key, you can get a 14.1" T42/T43 that's gonna be superior to the Z60t in every way. Just browsing through this forum will expose you to enough horror stories on the Z60t build quality.

The Flexview on the 15" Thinkpads is a very nice and bright screen. It's quality goes much beyond its brightness, too. I guess one could say that IBM/Lenovo tend to put quality screens in their bigger models and skimp on the smaller ones. I too can't see the logic behind it, but that's how it has been for a while now.

 

At least a plain 14" XGA T43 display is even worser than that of the Z60t (122 cd/m² vs. 139 cd/m² .

Also the actual 14" T43 models do suffer from heat (50°C measured on their bottom side) and louder all time running fans, due to the flat and small case, as do other similar flat build 14" notebooks...

- with CPU load: 0,8 Sone
- HDD <0,3 Sone / CD/DVD 1,8 Sone

It's powerbrick gets also way too hot with 63°C.

The T43 keyboard also got worser than those supplied in previous T-series models, the T43 keys surprisingly don't have that much stroke/travel and the Z60t keyboard is much better here in key travel.

So all in all IMO an actual 14" T43 model isn't better than a Z60t. - Maybe you should wait for the new T60 and X60 models in order to see how these will finally be, even I believe that these won't have changed TFT panels.

 

I was thinking more about the SXGA+ T43s. Their screens seem to be brighter (at least unofficially).

As for the heat, yeah, you're probably right. Well, one could always get a T42 and avoid most of the heat problems. Although it seems kinda as a step backwards, especially when Core Duo is here...

 

Thanks again for the info

dr_st: Thanks alot, I really need a widescreen though.

But I am a little bit concerned about the build quality after reading the posts here and other reviews that also say that although it is well constructed and solid it doesn't have quite the same feel as the X and T. And Lenovo reducing the standard 3 year warranty for the X and T to 1 year for the Z series doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

vkyr: Thanks again, where do you find all this awesome info?

The t60 and x60 dual core processing is overkill for me but I did find in the ThinkPad Models pdf that says both use a 150 nit anti-glare display. Looks like the z60m is the only thinkpad with a bright screen?

Reading through your replies to abaxter's z60m preview and abaxters review, the z60m in the pics has an LG lcd panel and the z60t has a LG or Samsung lcd panel so the screens could be from the same manufacturer. And as baxter says "Looking at the above picture you can see that the Z60t appears to use one backlight at the bottom of the screen while the Z60m uses two, one at the top and bottom -- with the bottom backlight being stronger"

Could it all be in the backlighting? Again I see no reason why they wouldn't have done it properly in the first place, except maybe weight or cost either of which I would be willing to pay for this quality screen.

If they could increase the brightness by improving the backlighting is IBM or now Lenovo or any notebook company in the habit of re-releasing new products with 'fixes' like this? Just wondering if the current screen is as good as its going to get, or if they receive enough customer feedback that they might update the machine and would be interested to know if this is possible how long it might take to get to market? I apologise for the general business sort of questions, but don't want to buy one now and have them release one with a bright screen in 3-6 months time

Thanks again!

Cheers

 

@LikwidSh0k

I'am a casual long time Thinkpad user (...back to the old early days, when laptops were invented and usually unpayable by mortals) and so tend to know one or two things about them. Beside that Thinkpads are always very well documented and tested around the world, so there is a lot of information about them available and you just have to research and look at the right places.

Dual core processors are actually slightly overrated and most actual applications don't benefit from these, since they are not build in a supporting multithreaded manner. So only a few well programmed apps (with threaded portions), or by the OS in parallel running apps, do benefit from dual core processors. Most casual apps still run with the same performance as they would do with Dothan Pentium-M CPUs too. - BTW there will probably also be selected Thinkpad models with single core CPUs, if dual core is a problem for you.

Among different Thinkpad models you will also find different assembled TFT panels, which slightly differ in specs. The small Thinkpads with 12" and 14" TFT panels don't have this luminant TFT panels assembled, but even there are some small brightness differences between plain 14" XGA and SXGA+ panels. However, the best and most luminant Thinkpad panels are usually still the so called 15" FlexView TFT panels, except for example the plain 15" XGA panels of a R50e model, which also has max. 190 cd/m². Also most of the Z60m widescreen TFT panels are brighter too and the MaxBright panel is the best in luminance here among those widescreen TFTs.

Related to TFT panels, backlights and so on... there is usually no single TFT panel, which will in reality meet exactly or nearly the vendors advertized nits (cd/m² specs (...it's same as with advertized battery runtimes here). You can take a look at the TFT panel suppliers panel specs, which are also more theoretical values here, since in practice no suppliers assembled TFT panel will ever reach these values.

And yes, the luminance of a TFT panel is, among some other things (surface filters and foils etc.), also highly dependent on the amount, positioning and quality of the backlights. - But let's don't forget, that TFT panels and their backlights are also huge battery power consumers and so many notebooks wouldn't probably reach better/longer battery times, if their panels would be much more luminant.

In the past IBM didn't changed much for their notebook models TFT panels and thus I doubt that Lenovo will do any different here. - However, I don't know and can't tell you if they might be willing to change or rework the Z60t TFT panels in the future or not.

 

Many thanks again vkyr for another very informative post and for taking the time, all your help has been very much appreciated.

Thanks alot dr_st for your help too, and rahulnirmal also - exactly what I needed to hear.

My conclusion is that I cannot risk spending AU$3,000 on this laptop sight unseen, and unless Lenovo here in Brisbane, Australia can get one on display somewhere they have lost a sale. And this is my first laptop too - way to go Lenovo ... unbelievable

I have read someone mention their returns policy so I might make a new post to clarify how this might work for me. But they told me that in Australia it is 7 days return ... so long as I don't power it on?

Thanks again!

Cheers

 

Well after more than 2 weeks I finally get to see 1 in Brisbane! Hooray! Except in hindsight they have done me a favour because I didn't think I needed a GPU or duo core but have since found out the z60t 915GM chipset won't support all the new graphics of Windows Vista due out in about a year. I have heard the duo core Z series will be available in about 6 months, and am looking to get a refurb t40 off eBay in the meantime.

If anyone in Brisbane wants to check out the z60t it will be at The Computer Market, Strathpine on Monday 6th Feb.

Cheers

 

Hi,

I've had my Z60t for 17 days now.
Used it on my business trips, made presentations, worked in the car, and sat outside in the sun (I live in lovely S. California).

Absolutely no problem with screen brightness (or lack of).

In fact the matt screen is MUCH better than those glossies in the brightly lit offices I travel to.
I had to give up a Dell 9300 and an HP because of the "bright screen" reflections.

For business use it is close to perfect.

Hope this presents another (albeit business oriented) view for your databank.

Best wishes in your laptop hunt.

KM

 

Just a quick addition:-

Battery life has been a tad over 3 hours to 3 1/4 hr. with the
7-cell battery - internet always on, browsing 40% and using office (powerpoint, word, excel) 60%.

Hope this helps.

 

Hi Ken,

Thanks alot for the info, very much appreciated! The news on outside and sunlight is great to hear (I live 1 hours drive away from the Gold Coast in Queensland, Australia) and a business machine is *exactly* what I am after

When I couldn't get a look at the z60t I had a look at a t40 and *really* liked the matte screen, also the build quality, keyboard and overall professional appearance. I checked out some of the new Toshiba and HP/Compaq machines and all had the glossy finish that was like looking into a mirror, and any time I got any of the ceiling fluoro's reflection I couldn't see a thing

I am looking forward to checking it out on Monday

Thanks again!

Cheers

 

Well I had a look at the z60t yesterday and wasn't very impressed.

The screen for my eyes was way too dim, as abaxter said a couple more notches on the brightness up button and it would have been great.

Sorry for no pics but it was in a showroom and I dont have a camera in my phone. I really checked out the screen for a good 15 minutes. I found when looking directly at the middle of the screen it looked very light grey around the edges. I found the screen uncomfortable on my eyes, and thought maybe it was a bit bright (yeah right) but when I reduced the brightness it felt worse. I found afterwards when I left the showroom that my eyes were a bit sore. This is definitely not a screen I could look at for extended periods of time.

I was suprised when I got there that it was on the bench with the lid open. I think this might have been because when I closed the lid I saw exactly the same thing rz8168 and waterloo experienced, the lid didn't close properly leaving a gap of about 3 mm.

Have to rant about this - Over the last 2 weeks I have looked at about 30 laptops from BenQ, Acer, LG, Compaq, HP, Toshiba, Sony, and Asus and this is the only one that had any defects. Admittedly they wouldn't be on display but this is from a machine thats reputation is rock solid build quality and the main reason apart from the keyboard I started looking at IBM. The latches are made out of cheap plastic - which I found hard to believe that they promote the 30% stronger magnesium chassis and titanium lid for extra strength, and build in a shock proof system, and hold it all together with 2 pieces of cheap plastic?

When I first starting reading posts here that people just didn't like the z60t I couldn't understand, now I am a member of the club, what a POS.

Also why is it called the z 60, when the x60 and t60 are both duo core? I think it should have been called the z40 or better yet left out of the range. I think they would have been better off waiting and then releasing the t60 (standard), x60 (ultraportable) and z60 (widescreen) all duo core at the same time, and got the build quality and stock availability right.

Cheers

 

I should be getting my z60t sometime soon so I will post some impressions. I have a feeling these latest models should be a lot better than what everyone is saying. Plus Office Depot is not the best place to view a laptop.

 

Hi typerlover, you should have read the thread dude or at least a couple of posts up on this page

Unfortunately it was a brand new latest model shipped overnight from the supplier to a small IBM refurbisher store, and could have been the one I got if I had bought it sight unseen. Which means 3 people just in this forum received one with a faulty lid straight out of the box.

I am not sure how OfficeDepot is setup but the small showroom was ideal to see how it would work in an office environment, where it will be used alot and the lighting cannot be changed. It might be brighter at home but I will be using an LCD anyway. I didn't bother checking outdoors after seeing it indoors.

By comparison out of all the notebook screens I have seen in the different showrooms, matte and glossy, the z60t is the dimmest. It is very frustrating because this is the perfect portable widescreen business notebook, and I am finding it impossible to find an alternative especially one that runs cool.

Looking forward to your opinions and hoping mine was a dud

Cheers

 

Heh, thanks for the advice Likwid. I did read the thread, and my laptop should be coming in on Monday. At our Office Depot the laptop is covered in dust and who knows what else, and is jammed into a clamp of death limiting movement of the screen. I will agree that the viewing angle is not the strongest part of the screen, but the brightness next to the T43 was definititely comparable, if not pretty much the same.