LG Gram 2021 announced: 14, 16 and 17

All the LG Gram models throughout the years have been very silent and cool, looks like the perfect choice for your requirements.

 

I have mine planned for delivery on Thursday. I ended up ordering the US version, Amazon UK are useless. I have currently the 2018 Gram 15 and it is the most silent laptop I ever had. At its maximum fan speed it is half as loud as the max noise of the Thinkpad X1 Carbon of my wife. When idle the fan is out and I can keep it on the lap without problem. But just be aware that sometimes you think that the laptop should be idle but Windows decides to do its indexing or something similar and the CPU usage goes through the roof. Theoretically even the Dell should remain quiet just for web browsing.

 

Thanks. I also had the vaio Z in the past, I see that you are a man of taste This beast was the only guy with a good processor in that format...

Which problem did you have with Amazon UK ? I live in Switzerland, I was planning to buy it from there as I don't see any other online chop in Europe.. Is there a way to order the US version ?

Yes, I think the Dell is just very bad in term of thermal factor, and I don't even have the I9. I changed the thermal pasta, but it didn't evolve much.. A friend of mine has the 2020 LG, and he is in love with it, said it is especially silent. But I would like to have feedback from owner of the 16, especially if the form factor changed a bit. The processor come now with a TDP of 28W vs 15W on the previous generations if I am not mistaken.. It could change a lot. It's also the reason I consider buying the LG, the processor , even is not as fast as the Dell one, is now really fine.

 

I am writing this comment on my new Gram 16. It arrived one day earlier. First impressions: I am not hooked like I was with the previous 2018 Gram 15. It is 80 grams heavier, but somehow it feels much bulkier. It barely fits in my 14'' backpack where the previous one just slid in. The keyboard is better (but not that much, needs more pressure but feels more precise). The track pad is almost unnecessary big. The whole case is much sturdier, it really feels like the X1 Carbon of my wife. There is no flex anywhere, but in black it is also a fingerprint magnet.
During the Windows setup it became pretty hot, quite warmer than my Gram 15 does. On the top, above the function keys and also at the bottom, around the same area. The fan is as quiet as the old one. Now that I am writing it is totally silent and cool. Battery also shows 16 hours!
I run Cinebench R23 and it came out 48% faster.The screen also looks much brighter, I have to get used to the additional real estate, have to to some work on it to see.
I took some photos but they need to be compressed to upload them, will do during the weekend.
I think I need some time to get used to it. I still wonder if I want to spend all the time to configure it with my apps and test it thoroughly during the weekend or send it back and just wait till they make Ryzen laptops with Thunderbolt, where the performance gain will be massive.

 

Just run another Cinebench, I found there is an option in LG Control Center for Performance mode. I got 4559 vs 3672 before at Optimal mode, the old Gram did just 2466, this is an 84% improvement!! But it really gets very hot, have to keep it on the desk.

 

Which CPU is in your Gram 15? Nevermind see your sig, guessing it's the i7-8565U like my 17.

That 4559 score is pretty much akin to a 28W mode 1165G7, what was the fan noise like in performance mode?

 

Actually I have the previous generation, the i7-8550U but the difference between yours and Kaby lake was not that significant if I remember well.
Fan noise was similar as with Optimal mode. LG has nailed it on this issue, never the high pitched fan noise that I dreaded with my Vaio or with the X1 Carbon, just a constant woosh sound like with my old Gram, warmer, but still relatively quiet.

It is a keeper. Just before going to bed I decided to plug it to my eGPU and see what happens. I was amazed, almost totally plug and play, it suggested to download Geforce Experience , I rebooted and the drivers were there, all screens up not even 5 minutes. No lag, no delay while re-arranging the screens, the gain in speed is immense. I know I will lose a little bit in portability (well with the 17inch obviously you don't care so much about this) but it will certainly improve my workflow.

 

As you probably read in my other posts, I am very satisfied with the new Gram. I ordered it during the weekend at Amazon in US and had it delivered on Wednesday in Germany! Amazon UK had me waiting for 10 days, no confirmation of card payment, waiting for my bank, blabla, always 4 different persons during the support chat (nothing works in the this country anymore after Brexit). I realized also that I don't like the small left Shift in the UK version and decided to get the US one. I don't know for Switzerland, but with the German account credentials you log in the US site it and it proposes the price in Euros for delivery in Germany. End price was just 30 euros more than buying it at the UK site and almost the same with the price I had seen on the German site (not available any more). Hope it helps

 

So here are some pictures comparing the old and the new. Don't hesitate to write back if you want me to check something. You can see also how much brighter the screen of the new one is.

 

The 17 is still very portable at 3lb, I've taken it on a trip or two, I really like the lapability (lol new word) of it, especially since it has no bottom vents, but this hurts in other ways such as airflow for performance. I use it 99.5% of the time on a desk so ultimately I'd rather have the intake vents for better cooling, any time I used it on my lap it was for very light workloads like watching a video or web browsing. If I am gaming with the eGPU it's always on a surface even if it's a lapdesk.

The fact that it actually runs at 28W sustained is a pretty surprising turn of events. Cinebench R23 runs long enough that it would have to be able to sustain at least 25W for quite some period in order to get a 4559 multi-core score. Have you tried using Throttlestop to do some undervolting? You could at least use it to monitor package power over time during the test. My 8565U will actually long term go down to around 14-14.5W sustained during the last half of an R23 run. The heat management just can't keep up enough.

 

Would you mind taking a screenshot of CPU-Z when it's set to performance mode, interested in what it might reveal. Specifically the max TDP

 

This was in performance mode, but nothing heavy running. I will add one while running Cinebench. By the way I had to reinstall everything (I forgot to setup windows with a local account in the beginning) and run Cinebench again. First time it was "only" 4414, I forgot to put windows settings in best performance (LG always in performance), then 2nd time I got 4616. I am really satisfied and I don't think I need to do any changes.
The following is while running Cinebench. In the beginning it starts at more than 3GHz and as the test was going it landed to 2.7, lowest I saw at 2.5.

 

Wow.. thanks! I can't believe they were able to get a 28W config in there and cool it adequately. I suppose those vents helped out tremendously over the previous iterations. The heat sink isn't THAT much different than the 2019 version and looks frankly identical to the 2020. Perhaps maybe just a hair larger fan diameter, but so hard to tell.

Yeah, the "core speed" will fluctuate greatly depending on what load is applied, what the current SpeedShift config is etc... I use ThrottleStop to undervolt and tweak speedshift etc.. This 2019 version just can't seem to get above 14-16W without heavy thermal throttling unless you do some modifications to help the thermal management out.

I've configured it to use more than 15W if it has the thermal headroom, and as you can see here it starts out around 20W and slowly throttles back down to between 14.5-15.5W during a Cinebench R23 run. It maxes out around 2400Mhz all core (which is better than the stock stated 1800-2000Mhz I will say) but the reason I can't sustain better is thermal throttling. I did this while only using a 1080p monitor hooked to the eGPU so quality isn't 1600p here. Also the ambient temperature in the room I'm in right now is pretty mild, probably around 15C since I have the window open and it's nice a cool out. So it would probably be worse if it was warmer.



EDIT: I modified PROCHOT to throttle at 95 °C instead of 90 °C to see if a little extra room would do anything. I was able to get up to 3108 Multi-Thread score in R23 but that was only because of the extra headroom in the first part of the test, it still settled around 14.5-15.5W on the last half so it's pretty clear that the stock heat management can only sink that much before it's saturated in a fully stock config. I even used Gelid GC Extreme on a re-paste, it's just saturated no matter what TIM is used.

 

So I had to open my Gram 16 to add the 2nd SSD from the previous one and took photos. It seems the heat pipe is 2cm longer, the fan also looks just a bit bigger.
This is the old one




You might think in the picture that I am not touching the left end, but there is a little piece of metal sticking out. Still the differences do not explain the huge difference in performance. It has probably to do more with the new Intel chips at 10 nano

 

Thanks for all your feedback. I will order it from amazon US then. Did you select the "average 7-10 days days - AmazonGlobal Standard Shipping" or the "AmazonGlobal Priority Shipping" to makes it arrive that fast ?

 

Yeah it's probably a combination of the better heat sink and pipe, perhaps different fan, 10nm over 14nm and the vents on the bottom as well. Thanks for the measurement!

 

All these things confirm what that Korean guy said after dismantling the Gram 2021, I posted that video on the first page of this thread back in December : http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/lg-gram-2021-announced-14-16-and-17.834881/#post-11066054

 

Yeah just restating, it still looks like it has no business being able to sink double the power, I think the vents help a lot.

 

I have run in some minor issue with the eGPU in my new Gram 16. The eGPU starts only after I log into Windows. Since the laptop is far away from the monitors it is quite annoying. I cannot also access
the advanced BIOS settings, CTRL + ALT+ F7 does not seem to work on this one. They have also limited the ability to create your own power plan, when you try to create a new one, you have no options anymore for processor power management, Intel display settings, etc. Only Sleep, Display Battery and Slide Show. So I can only use the LG Control Center to change to performance.

 

Just have it automatically log into windows

 

This review by an Australian tech website has some new information which nobody has touched till now. LG has changed the charging circuit and charger type for 2021 Gram.

LG Gram now uses Gallium Nitride (GaN) charger and the laptop uses a very efficient high-frequency quasi-resonant (HFQR) charge circuit.

Review Link: https://www.gadgetguy.com.au/lg-gram-16-the-new-standard-for-intel-project-evo-laptops-review/

Some links for further reading on the technology:

https://www.belkin.com/in/resource-center/gan-chargers/

Specific information about LG Gram 2021 charger:

https://www.navitassemi.com/lge-goes-ganfast/

https://www.chongdiantou.com/wp/archives/67776.html

 

Strange review, some of the photos are clearly from the older Gram 15. The charger they supplied is no big deal. it took more than 3 hours to fully charge. It is a bit smaller than the old one and emits less heat, but it is not comparable to this one for instance: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/slimq-f100-the-compact-100w-charging-solution#/
I haven't used it yet, but since the laptop can charge to 100W it could be interesting.

 

Yes, the photos are just randomly pasted from LG website. I know that LG could have done much more miniaturisation with GaN charger and that is why i was surprised to find that they are using GaN chargers, i just assumed it is normal one due to its normal size.

At least LG migrated to the new tech and we have a more efficient and cooler charger which will have longer life and the associated more efficient charging circuit in the laptop also derives all these benefits.

 

WindowsCentral LG Gram 17 2021 Review: https://www.windowscentral.com/lg-gram-17-2021-review

 

Tech Advisor LG gram 17 (2021) review: https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/review/lg-gram-17-2021-3803169/

 

They have also a review of the 16inch. Strangely the performance is higher on the 17inch. I think they just messed up with the settings when they did the test, because both should be similar.

 

I ordered a Gram 16 (i7, 256GB, 16GB Ram) and will update the SSD to 1TB Samsung 980 (took the 980 because it seems to be a bit lower energy consumption in idle vs 980 pro, and is still plenty fast, guess actually no difference to 980 pro as I don't write huge amounts of data to disk on the laptop).

However I will instantly ditch it when a laptop similar to the gram 16 with OLED screen (min resolution 2560x1600 - optimal would be for me like 3000x2000) appears that is not substantially heavier and offers similar battery life. I really don't get why LG cannot offer better screens. Brightness is dismal for this price class, and glossy is also really not good. Would prefer semi-glossy (actually my desktop UHD 27" LG monitor has this dialled perfectly). Also put in better speakers and maybe invest 50-60g to make it less flexy.

It's replacing my T480s which also has a crappy display (WQHD with only about 750-800:1 contrast ratio). T480s just has too bad battery life and too bad screen. The gram 16 will be a big improvement to the former, and a small improvement to the latter. Actually I would prefer the i5 over the i7. The i5 consumes less battery and is as fast on CPU side (well and even better of course would be ryzen 5600U or 5800U). But the display will be the reason I guess/hope to ditch the Gram 16 in 1-3 years. I'ld be fine with 4K display too - if the battery life gets me through 11-12 hours of office work. I guess on OLED resolution will not impact battery as much (and maybe Ryzen 5600/5800 being better here than Intel in this regard). The least LG could have done is put a display with >1500:1 contrast and >400Nits into the Gram series and better speakers. Wouldn't have cost them much but improved all reviews a lot.

I do see the 16" as borderline big. The 17" really too big for most of my backpacks. It's actually my very first >14" laptop - I've so far since 2006 always stuck to 14".


Oh BTW - what would you do on the gram to remove Bloatware? Reset Windows or uninstall? I usually prefer Reset/clean install then just install drivers and essential tools but am afraid I may lose some battery optimizations?

 

Yes, LG only improved the colour gamut and resolution this year for the 16 inch range. The brightness and contrast are lacking. The main problem is that brightness also varies a lot depending on the piece you get, that is why reviewers are getting a wide range between 300-400 nits.

Talking about OLED, I would love to get something like the newly launched Xiaomi Mi Notebook Pro 15 :

https://www.gsmarena.com/xiaomi_ann..._model_with_120_hz_lcd_follows-news-48440.php

https://www.notebookcheck.com/Xiaom...eres-Mi-Notebook-Pro-14-mit-LCD.530085.0.html

But Xiaomi does not sell high end laptops outside China, last year they launched some low end laptops in India. So, hopefully this year they will launch the entire range but i doubt it happens.

I find 13/14 inch laptops too small. 15/16 inch laptops is more comfortable to me. That is why LG Gram 16 would be my choice.

About bloatware, there are 3-4 useless apps installed according to reviews, just uninstall them and you will be fine.

 

The Mi Laptop Pro 15" looks nice - but I'm pretty sure much heavier (the 14" goes at 1.5kg, likely the 15" hits 1.8-2kg), and I do not want a laptop with a graphics card. Integrated is just fine. It consumes way too much power. Also the batteries are too small. Also cloning apple design too much - I'm pretty sure the sharp edge at the front would start annoying me. But yes - they really dialled the screen. And it's frustrating that LG - which is besides Samsung the most advanced producer of OLED screens doesn't get it. I'm pretty sure next years or 2023 year model will have it dialled though. Do not want to wait so long as I right now hate my T480s and work mobile every day.

And no brightness varies a bit - but not 300-400 nits. 6-7% plus minus is likely the max. It only differs more if they install different panels (doesn't seem LG does this however). Well maybe we can upgrade the panel in 1-2 years ourselves? On some Lenovo ultrabooks it's possible to install other screens used by newer models.


For me the Gram 16 really hits the sweet spot. Except the in comparison lousy screen. I wouldn't need OLED - a display with 1500:1 contrast, 400-500 nits and matte or semi-gloss would be just alright. Decreasing contrast from 1500:1 to 750:1 means for me that I need to increase scaling by about 10%. So yes the LG Gram wins on the size argument - but with the lousy contrast it loses a lot. The rest of improvment are more nice to have - but no gamechanger for me when it comes to productivity.

 

For me the Gram 16 really hits the sweet spot. Except the in comparison lousy screen. I wouldn't need OLED - a display with 1500:1 contrast, 400-500 nits and matte or semi-gloss would be just alright. Decreasing contrast from 1500:1 to 750:1 means for me that I need to increase scaling by about 10%. So yes the LG Gram wins on the size argument - but with the lousy contrast it loses a lot. The rest of improvment are more nice to have - but no gamechanger for me when it comes to productivity.[/QUOTE]

Please wait to receive it and use it and then comment on it. On paper the screen is just a bit brighter than my older Gram 15, but I find it at least 30% brighter. And it is way way more pleasant than the full hd screen of the X1 Carbon of my wife. So I believe you will be more than surprised with the upgrade. I find LGs totally underwhelming in specs but the way they handle real life operation in noise and heat is impressive. Opening up to change or add an SSD is not that straightforward as in ThinkPads and I scratched a bit the paint underneath trying to unclip the cover.

 

well I cannot return it easily anyhow. Ordered it in Taiwan from Amazon USA.. (actually in Taiwan I could have got the same model for more or less same price with i5 instead of i7 which should conserver some battery).
Many people say anyhow right now is not a good moment to buy a PC/Laptop as I guess in 2 years ARM will take over x64/x86 also on the Windows/Linux side. If that doubles the runtime then a 4k OLED Gram 16 with ARM processor and 80 WH battery could likely still run 15 hours real life (on 150 nits, or say 12 hours on 220 nits). Don't want to wait for 2 more years.
Likely next year I guess LG will be moving OLED. Then 2023 OLED and ARM...
Then however I don't know if I can switch to ARM anyhow as my work depends on lots of old legacy applications - so let's see how windows manages this. If it's like OSx where they stopped 32bit programs and don't even offer an emulation for them (I guess this move was only done so people complain less once ARM gets out - as those apps that are not updated to x64 won't be updated for ARM either) then I will not be able to switch. I do guess Windows/Linux will be way better in this regard however.

 

If you had followed from the beginning this thread you would see that I was hesitating to upgrade my older Gram 15 thinking to wait for AMD laptops with thunderbolt implementation. Luckily I was convinced in this forum to go for it and I am very glad, especially with the speed gains in my workflow.
I think, although AMD sounds amazing, that most people would be totally satisfied with the 11th generation Intel. You will let me know when you test it.
Most people don't use most of the current processors capabilities. Not everyone needs to render 4k video on a daily basis. Also not everybody needs 15 hours of battery life to write their blogs in a Starbucks with no power outlets nearby. In the contrary I was traveling often and appreciated weight the most (thought the Gram has also amazing battery life).
ARM to take over windows is not going to happen, at least no way in 2 year time. There are certain apps that were always X64/86 windows, their developers never bothered for instance to develop for Macs and Mac users had to use virtual machines to run them. I don't know how it will work for them with M1 but just to say that there is more to windows PCs than browsing the internet and and it ill take longer to get rid of the X64 legacy.
Lastly from what I read, OLED screens are not that good with the battery, most of the browsing is done with white background. With anything outside of black the consumption is not that good.
I find LG is amazing in finding the balance among all the components producing in the end a very pleasant laptop to use. I agree I don't like glossy screen either but when you will compare the colors next to your Thinkpad you might appreciate it more.
I I always dreamed of using my laptop outdoors. Anytime I tried I it I never managed to do productive work with the sun boiling my head. You always need some shadow and cover. Under these conditions the glossy screen of the Gram is also ok.
Enjoy your new Gram. (I also got mine from Amazon USA because in Germany LG delivers only with German keyboard).

 

Well OLED screens on some new notebooks have really good battery life - just not the 4k ones but the lower resolution ones. I guess the main problem with 4k is however Intel, at least for OLED. I would hope that AMD 5600/5800 doesn't take such a battery life hit with 4k screen.

And let's see. I do hope that ARM makes it into servers rather soon. Nginx, Apache, Mysql are all already ported and the benchmarks are really convincing. Yeah the M1 will not cut it with the 16GB Ram limitation (even though the stack seems to use less memory compared to x86 on Linux).
I don't need that much power on my laptop - just feel that AMD 5600/5800 is far superior now to Intel - first time also on battery life (that was not the case with 4xxxx and isn't the case with 5500/5700. It's more just future proofing.


I do use my laptops outdoors in the shade quite often - the LG likely won't do. But maybe possible to upgrade the display in the future.. E-LDP connectors are standardized anyhow.. Not sure if it's possible however..

I don't feel Intel 11th generation is any improvement over 8. except graphics. They are pretty stuck. My i5-8250U runs a stable 27Watt - 3200 all core speed thanks to hefty undervolting (thanks to disabling the 15W limit - cooling is actually the limit then). It doesn't seem the 11th generation is any better there as Intel blocked the undervolting. On idle the 11th generation is also only marginally better. Just graphics are way better (but still a lot worse than AMD APU)

 

I think most reviewers will not know all the settings for max performance. What is the procedure: Performance mode in windows then also enable performance mode in LG control centre?

 

Only balanced mode in available in Windows, the others do not exist, probably LG deactivated them, have to go to LG control center

 

Actually I do wonder if there are two different display panels used - or this review here is just rubbish - they measured 1483:1 contrast on the 16" https://www.stuff.tv/lg/gram-16/review
but then don't say brightness or much other info - doubting if they actually tested the contrast.

LG itself quotes 300nits 1400:1 contrast on their spare parts list - however that panel LP160WQ1-SPA1 got tested by two tests with 930:1 on notebookcheck - and their tests IMHO are the gold standard, this is really a big variation from their spec sheet. 1400:1 would be really nice (not OLED but much better than something between 850-950 from all tests.).

My gram should arrive tomorrow - but not so sure with covid19 if they need more time at the customs and so on. I will read out the panel number - but I cannot check for actual contrast (only compare with my T480s which has something around ~800:1).


The problem is - I think LG is not really giving unique names to their panels. The 2019 and 2020 gram 17 both have the LP170WQ1-SPA1 panel, but they are not the same at all when it comes to contrast (1077:1 vs 1324:1). LP170 is just the size, WQ1 the resolution - and SPA1 which should be unique isn't... Did the name actually change for the 2021 lg gram panel? Because the old ones didn't have DCI-P3 99% coverage (much less).

 

When is your Gram 16 getting delivered by Amazon? Post your mini review here after getting it.

 

Well I guess I have to send it back... As soon as I reach the windows screen the screen keeps going black 2/3 of the time. I can only see something in short moments between. Any ideas?
I'm not sure if it's hardware related - because it does not happen on boot before windows screen.

Same going black like if changing display resolution or connecting external monitor kind of - just stays black. not related if on battery or connected to USB-C power...


At first this happened only sometimes - but now it keeps getting worse and screen is black 3/4 of the time...
Only thing so far I did was uninstall some bloatware (nothing from LG however) - it did not happen during the windows setup.

 

I'm now trying windows fresh start removing everything with fresh download - if that doesn't help I will contact amazon for a return/exchange. I could open up the base and check the connector cable - but guess then I cannot return it anymore.... Also never happened in bios so I don't think it's the cable connector. But I guess it's hardware related nevertheless?
As soon as I'm out of windows it's okay however!

Otherwise:
Yeah really light for the size. I don't mind the flex in the display/base - yes it's definitely more than on my magnesium thinkpads - but nothing too bad. Well it could be a bit stiffer for the base - especially around the touchpad - but i guess this is fine. I would prefer 50g more and a little bit sturdier however. But yeah - not too much more - doesn't need to be brick like - just a little less flex towards the middle of the keyboard/top of touchpad. Adding some carbon stringers for support would be great (or maybe just increasing the battery size - so the battery supports the structure? Yeah guess such a thing would cost a bit of money too.

The screen is really a mirror - hope I can get used to it. Cannot really say about contrast yet - cause it's black most of the time in windows...

I really could do without the numpad on the keyboard. It feels a bit cramped. The keyboard is diagonally about 2.5cm smaller than on my T480s - clearly due to the numpad. At least 1cm wider would be nice.


Edit: Never flashed during the setup, in bios or now during resetting of the pc.. I do hope it's just some driver problem and not hardware related. But then strange if if's software related broken out of the box...

 

I would just return it, definitely should not do that. Hopefully reinstall fixes your issue though.

I agree about the numpad, I'd rather have a centered keyboard. Though I get why it's there, a lot of creatives use it for their workflow. It's not a dealbreaker, but slightly annoying.

 

After the reinstall it seems fine. I don't understand why the bloatware and LG apps came back after I selected to remove everything... So far I had two very short blackouts, I guess they are normal related to installing some stuff - but not like opposite more black than screen than screen on time.
Opened up hwinfo / my screen like everyone elses is:
Monitor Name: LG Philips [Unknown Model: LGD0694]
Monitor Name (Manuf): LG Display LP160WQ1-SPA1
Date Of Manufacture: Week: 0, Year: 2020

Not sure about date of manufacture however... Week 0 does not seem right.


Drive is:
Drive Model: SAMSUNG MZVLB256HBHQ-00000

And the last thing I know some people complained - battery:
Full Charged Capacity: 76840 mWh


CPU stepping B1
CPU Thermal Design Power (TDP): 28.0 W
CPU Power Limit 1 - Long Duration: (25.00 W) (32.00 sec) [Unlocked]
CPU Power Limit 2 - Short Duration: (60.00 W) (2.44 ms) [Unlocked]
Configurable TDP Level 1 (Down): 12.00 W (Unlimited range), 1200 MHz
Configurable TDP Level 2 (Up): 15.00 W (Unlimited range), 1700 MHz
Current Configurable TDP Level: Nominal [Unlocked]

I guess as everything here is unlocked - I can configure it via Throttlestop (not tested however yet)


With throttlestop you can disable the very short turbo limits - then 90 degrees temperatur is the real limit (well and the inefficient cooling).

In general the Tiger lake is a bit disappointing in this regard. I managed to get idle package power down on my T480s I8250U to 0.5-1W. On the Lg gram it sits at 1-2 Watts and the voltage is about exactly my offset higher (I'm using 0.11 volts offset on my T480s which changes a lot). But yeah I knew this beforehand.
Also the LG Gram runs much hotter just surfing - both laptops never use fan while surfing - I guess that's mainly related to the tiger lake just not being undervolted and less efficient on idle.


The screen is a bit brighter than on my T480s / but not much (the highest setting on T480s is pretty equal to the second highest on the LG Gram - however being glossy need to use the LG Gram on brighter setting). The contrast is so hard to compare - the Lg gram being glossy, the T480s matte. In general the screen is much better on the Lg Gram (my T480s is also 2560 resolution, just 16;9 - of course the added size also helps in readability - I'm running both in 100% scaling - which is a bit straining on the T480s but perfectly fine on the LG Gram). I'm pretty sure the contrast is more 900:1 than 1400:1.

The keyboard on the T480s seems to be a bit superior for me - but it's fine on the LG Gram. They are both very good. I still need to get used to US keyboard over German layout.

The mousepad is miles better and really good on the LG Gram while mediocre at best on my T480s.


CPU performance is dismal - as shown in the tests once it gets hot.
I enabled performance mode for cooling in the lg control center app, set turbo limits to over 600 seconds, enabled best performance in windows.
But I get 1700-1750 points in Cinebench R20. It's running into the 90 degree Celsius CPU limit. Cinebench 15 fares much better - as its the shorter test. I get about 750-760 points. CPU drops to about 2800 mhz, sometimes slower on longer benchmarks. It can cool about 20-21 watts.

So except cinebench R20 where I do not understand at all how notebookcheck got so good results - the benchmarks from here: https://www.notebookcheck.net/LG-Gr...-6-inch-Laptops.530592.0.html#toc-performance
match very well (considering my room is 26 and not 20-22 degrees warm)

My old T480s uses 5-7 Watt more - while running at 97 degrees - and at higher cpu speed (around 3300-3400 consuming 25-27 watts). It scores about 1600 points on Cinebench R20 multi.

PC Mark 10 on the other hand performance is above the one in Notebookcheck - and well I guess this will improve once I put a faster NVME inside / the Samsung right now is not slow / but there are faster ones. (well the 980 I ordered got stuck on transport / amazon has some shipping problems during pandmic)
Overall Score 5 092
Essentials
10 419
App Start-up Score
14 960
Video Conferencing Score
8 293
Web Browsing Score
9 118
Productivity
7 054
Spreadsheets Score
6 025
Writing Score
8 261
Digital Content Creation
4 878
Photo Editing Score
7 490
Rendering and Visualization Score
3 199
Video Editing Score
4 845


3D Mark Scores:
TimeSpy 2560x1600 - 1758, graphics 1602, CPU 3948


This is while not closing Chrome and so on / but not actively surfing. Maybe 3-5% are missing therefore. Same on my T480s.
Except cinebench 20 which was much faster for the notebookcheck.info 16 test - my results are all accoding to what should be expected - sometimes even a bit faster likely because of dispabling the turbo limits with throttlestop. Its clear that with better cooling the lg gram scores on demanding tasks would be much better. But it's okay for me. The main problem is no undervolting with tiger lake. That would improve scores by 5-10% and decrease battery usage accordingly.

Edit / stress testing with prime95 - speeds drop fast to 2400 or so - only 3 -4 seconds max all core turbo. then after 2 minutes it has decreased to 2000-2100 Mhz, consuming 19.5 to 20.5 watts (26 degrees room temperature - yeah at 20 degrees it should therefore be a little better.


I still very randomly have a black screen flash. Not sure if I better return the laptop. Every two hours or so.

so far....

 

Could some other people please post Cinebench R20 results? I'm somehow more and more sure my lg gram 16 is a lemon. The blackscreens do happen more frequently now - like every 20 minutes one (1second black) - so the issue seems to be worse than I first thought. I removed all lg software just to be sure but it didn't change anything.

Also the battery life is less than acceptable, and temperature simply too high. Just streaming a HD (720P) video with the laptop on my lap in bed the CPU got 70-80° hot - and the laptop underside got too hot to be on my lap. That was with cooling set to best performance in the lg control center (25° room temperature).
battery life while streaming going for 7-8 hours. That's about the same as my T480s which barely breaks a sweat and stays much cooler...

It's just a bit troublesome for me sending the lg gram back from Taiwan to US. Had I ordered local the laptop would already be on it's way back...


Edit: Setting speedshift epp in Throttlestop to 180 - brings down the CPU to about 1 to 1.5 Watts / however my T480s runs at 0.4-0.5 Watts at identical settings.
I enabled HIPM&DIPM (DIPM is not enabled by default - and you need to enable showing this option via registry) plus everything as written in this guide here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/guide-improving-battery-life-on-windows-enabling-deeper-c-states.815602/#:~:text=Give it a try and measure idle power consumption using ThrottleStop.&text=You can reduce the voltage,if you aren't familiar.

That ups battery life to about 12 hours at usable brightness for office work. Still nothing resolved my black screen issues..
Heat while watching movies went down - but in general this laptop is running hotter and at higher speed vs my T480s. Would love to know why.


Edit: Setting Panel Self Refresh to off in the Intel Graphic Command Center seems to have fixed the black screens. I do wonder if there is some hardware defect if that settings causes the black screens. Also I'm all but happy about the high cpu package power. cannot get it belo 1-1.5 watts in idle - even with speedshift 255 which makes the system way slow this doesn't drop below 1 watts.


BTW - I measured the total system battery use in idle - set to power saver (which seemingly sometimes gives me some black window time even with panel refresh set to off, with panel refresh set to on power saver ends up in unusable pc 70% display black)
100% 5w
90% 4.2w
80% 3.6w
50% 2.8w
0% 1.8w (actually 0% isnt too low compared to other laptops) - so if you want to get through a long day - 80% is like a sweet spot. The main problem is much more CPU and GPU power draw - not so much the screen itself.

 

Black screen is very strange. I think you should return it, never happened to me.

Could not get the 4559 I got when it was brand new with nothing installed.
I would suggest you send it back, the black screen problem is not normal. Already you were not very positive before getting the laptop.

 

well except the points I knew beforehand - and the black screen problem, it's okay. The problem is I have to send it back on my own costs from Taiwan to the US... And LG Taiwan doesn't care about products bought in US...

Well by now I got 1750 points by increasing the heat limit to 95° from 90° (that was to equalize my warmer room temperature). So 1900 points seem a bit far. You uploaded Cinebench R23 not R20...
I do think lg could somehow improve the fan system - it's simply getting too hot for on lap use (well better by playing with speedshift settings) - I think it would be enough to build in a faster fan - maybe a tiny bit bigger and just allow it to spin faster. It seems even though designed newly it was more keeping the old 15W in mind. For 28W it's not enough (can do 20-22W of heat).

BTW - using Throttlestop plus those steps in the guide does decrease battery usage in Idle by about 33% from about 2.8watt to 1.8watt. On load this difference is less. So for better battery life forget about the lg tools (the only thing you need is the LG control center for changing the fan mode - I don't know any other tool capable of doing so) and ditch the rest.


Throttlestop is not the most important - the most important is to enable lowest for PCI link...

 

Well I will have to send the laptop back to USA - after the newest windows updates the screen was flashing like crazy - and I could not do anything before booting in safe mode - resetting the intel graphic driver settings - then rebooting. If such things happen more often not possible to use. I will order another lg gram 16 however.

I did for some time manage to get CPU package power down to 0.5w - don't know how that happened - but there must be some registry setting that I got. However it was much less often in that state compared to my T480s. Best to uninstall all LG tools if you wan"t to get really low power. Also in addition install park controll (enabling core parking via windows registry or quick cpu doesn't work - don't know why - it's a bit strange. I think actually the best is to clean install windows - the lg stuff botches up more than it does any good when it comes to power use.

If everything is really configured for low power use - you can surf the internet - watch movies in Chrome at 80% screen brighntness (I guess that's about 220 nits) at 5watt per hour via wifi. That means 16 hours of surfing or watching FHD video in Chrome via wifi is possible with aggressive battery saving measures. That"s pretty cool. I'm pretty sure you can somewhere gain another 0.5watt per hour on the CPU package, however the screen, and the rest of the laptop is really energy efficient. The CPU package is somehow botched up a bit - but maybe that's i7 tiger lake in general. I"m pretty sure i5 would run another hour.

22 hours - well that is possible if watching a video in windows movie player - wifi/bluetooth everything switched off and maybe at 30% screen brightness. And HD only. I think FHD won"t work. Maybe in Linux it is possible by selecting a way more aggressive CPU governor. Because no matter how many hidden registry settings you touch - that damn tiger lake idles or works at a minimum of 1300-1400mhz. No way to get it to just go down to 800mhz and park 7 out of 8 cores. In linux with adpated kernel this should be doable. If the rest of the laptop is as energy efficient in Linux as in windows (which is no given at all) then maybe 22 hours Full HD video via Wifi is actually possible. Just seeing how this CPU just scales up way too fast - it would be possible to watch Full HD videos at 30 or 40% screen brightness via wifi with maybe 3 to 3.5 watts per hour. So 25 hours is not that far off. I kinda guess Apple just does exactly that on the M1 processor / or better ARM is just doing exactly that anyhow. Intel and AMD just have never really worked on optimizing their CPU settings to offer a 1watt mode. It"s definitely doable. And screen and rest of laptop can run at 1-2 watt per hour. The speakers even though rated 2x2watt do not consume over 1.5 watt together (well except using an equalizer and boosting by 10-15 decibels or so. Maybe then they will. So lg really nailed the hardware power efficiency plus the big battery. It"s mainly windows and intel who are botching it with tiger lake. Else we could get 25 hours of 150 nits work time on the LG gram 16.


Oh and I think I got behind how notebookcheck.info got such a high score. I think they just increased prochot to 100 degrees. That is the max allowed by intel - and if you do that in a 20 deegrees room the thermal throttling is much less severe. 2000 points in Cinebench R20 are then defnitely on track. 2500 - the intel reference design would need an 20% stronger cooler (actually I think if we could influence the speed of the cooler - this wouldn't be a problem. it's just that LG doesn't do it to save battery. it's a bit of a shame - because with the laptop on my lap it's getting really uncomfortably hot - due to the air only coming out at the bottom.

 

BTW - the lg gram 16 with 8GB RAM is on sale on amazon .co.uk for 949GBP - crazy that they sell it soo cheap.

 

LG Gram 16 Techadvisor review: https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/review/lg-gram-16-2021-3803093/

 

that review is pretty bad. Interesting and good is the following:
www.expertreviews.co.uk/lg/1413454/lg-gram-17-2021-review
vs
www.expertreviews.co.uk/lg/1413340/lg-gram-16-review

Especially that the 17" got better battery life, and had a superb screen. over 1500:1 contrast, 350 nits and Delta E of 0.67 vs Delta E of 1.88. for the 16". Both of their screens got over101% in DCI-P3. So their must have been a new revision for the screen. Maybe also consuming less power?
I did order a new lg gram 16 from amazon spain when they had it on offer for 997euros (without VAT). Now the 17" is on offer for 1200 euros without VAT. As my 16 isn't shipping yet, and the 17" on stock, I'm thinking about just switching to the 17" - considering it may last even longer on battery, plus as in all reviews throttle less. Just that the 17" is again the i7 and the i5 is actually faster and consuming less power (the i7 doesn't make sense in any laptop that cannot cool over 28W CPU, and the 17" also cannot).

No matter where - the 17" clearly scores better in benchmarks. Now this can mean two things - it has a different cooler. Or they tested a newer revision and lg by now changed the cooler. Plus that they clearly have a better display panel by now - both more power efficient (which is incredible seing the 16" is already very power efficient, it's just the CPU/GPU that burns your battery) and higher nits/contrast. The numbers from the 17" review are about as good as you can get (well now make it semi-glossy and it would be even better). The 17" gfx bench car chase numbers are really good compared to the 16". Hard to believe how good.
And the battery life nearly matches the macbook air M1..., a solid 90 minute longer than the 16"...

 

All these reviews are mediocre. The difference between the 16 and 17 probably is because the reviewer of the 16 did not set the cooling mode in performance at the LG control center, this is the % difference I had found. I would wait for Noteboookcheck but they also have their prejudices. But their performance measurement of the convertible looks objective. Not a rocket but a huge upgrade from the previous gen

 

No because there is no way to reach some of those values on the 16" with cooling in performance mode and even increase prochoot by 6-7 degrees. If you do 8 or 9 your gram will shutdown. As soon as it reaches 100 its shutting down.

And the display measurements of the 17 are just really good.

Again notebookcheck values are only replicable by increasing prochoot and performance cooling on my 16. The prochoot increase should be mentioned.