Going back to Seven for now

To be continued. I hate having to leave Mint 10 as I think it's a wonderful OS and my feelings for the product still stand. If you are a Linux noob and are looking to get into Linux and try it out Mint should be your first choice followed by Ubuntu.

So why am I going back to Windows 7? Well because I don't like a product, ANY product interfering with my experience and even more so when it gets annoying. This "I am alive" crap is beyond an annoyance.

Btw I appreciate all the help to get around this but it has not worked so far.

I now look at it and treat it as I would Spyware. I'm fine with taking one for the team but holy moly you interrupt me from accessing a website including NBR with the "I am alive" BS is just asinine if you ask me. I posted my feelings about it on the Mint 10 RC Blog and so far I look at it as censorship, because my comments were not posted.

So for now it's back to Seven, if this all goes away I will be back to enjoy Mint in it's updated form.

 

Do you have any screenshots of that? I really want to see what you're talking about!

 

I thought this was easy to switch off Apparently not.

Isn't there another distro that appeals?

 

I'm running on Seven right now so it's not possible atm.

Not yet, may wait for Mint stable to get released and try again. What I don't like is that this BS is in fact coming from Mint. I made a comment in the Mint RC blog and my comment was never posted so I guess the powers to be are not concerned with this at all, I am !

 

Say it aint so, Ro!

There are numerous other distros, as you well know. Why not try openSUSE, Mepis, Peppermint, Sabayon, or my personal favorite, PCLinuxOS?

 

Ah they'll probably fix it in the stable edition. I like Mint because it's noobish ready.

 

Perhaps you should try a better distribution, such as Ubuntu, or OpenSuSE.

 

PCLinuxOS is noob friendly, comes with various desktop environments, and has a very supportive community. Download a Live CD and try it out.

 

I went to the website and it doesn't look noobish enough for me lol. I'm going to check out Kubuntu 10.10 has always been my second favorite to Mint followed by Ubuntu. Supposedly this phone home was put into Ubuntu and Mint. I hope it's not present in the KDE version of Ubuntu.

 

1st: You shouldn't judge a book by its cover!
Last time I had a closer look at it (2 years ago), PCLOS was very beginner friendly. The same goes for Mandriva. And if you want a really simple bleeding-edge system, Fedora is a good choice.

2nd: If you're really interested in Linux, leave the Ubuntu sphere for a while! Check out other distributions! That doesn't have to mean to build Gentoo from stage1 or to run Arch. There are more beginner friendly distributions out there than only Ubuntu and Mint.

3rd: You shouldn't confuse "beginner friendly" with "works like Windows". If you're looking for a distribution that feels like Windows, better stick with the original. But if you're looking for an alternative - something different, you should also be open-minded when it comes to different ideas of what is "user friendly".

 

Mint 9 has been release and is stable. Mint 10 RC (Release Candidate) is not a final release yet. So if you are having trouble with beta software, then maybe stick to non "RC" versions. Just a thought.

 

As a fellow Linux noob, I can assure you that PCLOS is noob-friendly... more importantly, to me anyway, is that the community is very noob friendly and supportive. You may not like the distro, but I doubt it will be because it was too difficult to learn. Give the main KDE version a shot. I dare ya.

 

Thanks Boundzy but for now i'm sticking with Seven. I tried Kubuntu and Ubuntu and after messing with Mint they don't have what I like about Mint 10. Don't get me wrong Ubuntu KDE does some nice things as well as Ubuntu but with Mint it offers me everything I want with Linux AND my confidence has grown using Mint.

I'm sure i'll be back as soon as they remove the redirect which is plain stupid IMO.

 

I agree.. PCLOS. fedora, opensuse, would also be good choices. There are other user friendly distros out there that you can try if you like linux and want to become more familiar with it. If you do decide to try another distro, you can always go to that distro's forums..they can be of big help at times

 

I had a look at all of those and I still prefer Mint 10.

 

Glad you found a linux distro you like and want to stick with. I've been using linux for 5 years now and have had my share of distro hopping..for me it's been Ubuntu..i've gotten used to it and it's one i spent the most time with in my early linux days..anyways..hope to see you back soon

 

Don't worry !

 

For me, the hardest part of Linux is just the initial setup of everything you need, but even then it's mostly just following guides and such. You can try out other distros that aren't as noob-friendly and when you run into a problem just google or hop into IRC. That's what I've always done when I can't figure something out.

 

I'm back to 7 as well.. I am not sure I like where this unity thing and the no folders that Shuttleworth is talking about is going... Shuttleworth: Unity shell will be default desktop in Ubuntu 11.04

 

Thanks for sharing, I like tech that's different so I for sure will give it a try.

 

I haven't been following...what is this "I'm alive" thing you guys are referring to? Product Activation of some sort? (Have doubts considering its free...just wondering) Is it automated customer experience/reliability metrics gathering like what MS allows you to opt into when installing some of their apps?

 

I really like unity on the netbook edition, but I'm surprised they would leave gnome for a more dumbed down interface on their desktop edition.

 

No it's just a stats generator showing how many OEM installs stay to Linux. Ubuntu and other devs want to show Dell and other PC makers that Linux has a large install base and they should increase their support.

Here's the problem, for me this is basically spyware because that's what it's doing calling home without your consent. It was suppose to be only on OEM systems that shipped with Linux and a way for Ubuntu to gauge how computers continued to use Linux and not jump ship to MS. My problem for me is it surfaced on a non OEM Dell laptop that originally shipped with XP.

As I said i'm OK taking one for the team but when it stops me from doing my work and redirects the page I want to visit with "I am alive", that is just plain annoying and wrong. Also it's not just a one time thing it's a random thing.

I'm installing Kubuntu to see if it's there too, wouldn't surprise me either.

 

Well I've never seen it in either Ubuntu or Kubuntu, but they're not OEM installs. My understanding is that it's only in OEM installs and even then it is easy to switch off.

 

I really hate the direction Ubuntu is going. I can't stand integrated software and I started to have second thoughts when I discovered that Ubuntu One is installed by default. Even uninstalling it, it still appears on the desktop (though greyed out). I don't like what the Unity shell does either. More and more proprietary crap, I really see Canonical becoming the open source version of Microsoft. Not digging this one bit.

 

Everything you mentioned is the way it's supposed to be. Unfortunately it made it's way into Mint 10 and it's not easy to get rid of. Hopefully Mint 10 Stable will do away with it.

 

"Default" will by no means be "only". You still have a vast assortment of applications and desktop environments at your disposal, it's just a matter of installing them. Gnome will continue to be supported, because Unity in many cases *is* Gnome.

It's not so much dumbed downed as it is unique. Ubuntu has to make a name for itself, and through that they need to differentiate, the Unity Shell is a new but very good concept, it's but a matter of ironing out the issues and getting things delivered in a professional manor to the consumer - something Ubuntu has been increasingly excellent at.

It's not proprietary, it's all opensource, you can see the code no problem. It's also by no means totally integrated, you can always install a "vanilla' gnome on Ubuntu without to much trouble, along with countless free software desktop environments and consumer as well as professional and developer applications. There is a huge number of options available. Ubuntu is making some professional choices to better *their* solution, but their solution *overall* for the common problem with Linux: capturing a consumer audience. To do so, you need to be different, unique, integrated, stylish, and most importantly, polished. Ubuntu is making good decisions for a business sense, but it's by no means giving you as a user no other option.

 

I suppose so, but I don't need integrated software. I don't want Ubuntu One, or their music store, or for it to be "social from the start". If I want it to be social I'll download packages as needed. As I said, after uninstalling Ubuntu One it's still there on the UI, just greyed out. Not to mention that we are forced to use wodim and genoisoimage, buggy versions of Jorg Shilling's cdrtools, and based on old, outdated code at that. You can manually install cdrtools yourself, but the next time you install Ubuntu updates it replaces it with wodim again.
It just seems to me that Mark Shuttleworth is dictating to us what he thinks we should have, not the other way around. It seems to me that he is trying to get us integrated into Canonical and all the products he offers. Sounds a little like how Microsoft behaves, and one of the big reasons I've walked away from Microsoft. 10.10 could be the last Ubuntu version I use if this kind of behavior continues.

 

Have you tried emailing any of the Mint 10 developers or post on their fourm to see what the problem is?

 

Nah they probably look down on noobs. I'm trying, tomorrow the 64 bit version of M10 to see if it's there as well.

 

I wanted to try Mint 10 but based on what you are saying that kind of a turn of.

Do you guys think Unity will make it into the next version of Mint(after 10)? I kind of like the idea as it looks touch friendly(may want to move to a tablet next or somehow hack my Vaio to support touch screen).

 

I had a short look at the source code. It's simply a shell script that sends your Ubuntu version, the computer model and the number of accumulated pings (basically an uptime counter).
There is also a python script managing a local SQLlite DB which contains some more information. I'm not a python expert but as far as I can see it doesn't send any data or interact with the sending script.

In fact that's not a feature of canonical-census. There is no piece of code that might explain your observation. I guess there is some bug in your network configuration (a misconfigured firewall, some dhcp problem, whatever) that causes the wget command that is responsible for the actual sending to get the wrong route.

canonical-census is not part of the official Ubuntu repository. You'll hardly find it in an official Ubuntu release. Of course any distribution based on Ubuntu (or even any other distribution) can do whatever they want. So if you want to blame someone, blame the Mint developers.

Feel free to install or uninstall whatever you want. Maybe you should consider using the alternate installer and build up your Ubuntu from scratch. You also might want to think about a distribution change. There are quite some other Debian-based distributions which behave not so differently from Ubuntu.

Ubuntu has always included pretty much proprietary software or at least made it very easy to install it. That's not new.

Just delete the script or disable its cron.

From what I've seen I don't like Unity as well. But I guess once it's the default desktop there will also be a Gubuntu version featuring a pretty much vanilla Gnome. I think that's ok. No KDE user complains about not having KDE in Ubuntu by default. They just download the Kubuntu CD.

Please don't confuse those terms. Just because something is open source doesn't automatically mean that it's not proprietary (i.e. free (libre)). It's often like that, but not always.

Being popular is not a problem of Linux, it's a goal of Ubuntu (and some other distros). In fact most users and developers of Debian or Slackware don't care how popular their distribution is. It would be nice, but that's all.

And others want the exact opposite. How to make the decision?

Using wodim is not Ubuntus fault, its Debians. Ok, you can still say that Ubuntu could include the original. Have you ever though of filing abug report for that? If you don't like wodim to be reinstalled again, just set these packages on "hold".

You got it. He considers himself to be the "benevolent dictator". The rest is up to you.

I'm sure they won't. The idea behind Linux (or better: GNU) is, that everyone can participate. I wouldn't use a distribution that doesn't respect that.

 

debguy, you're mixing up me with rodknee in your quotes.
About setting those packages on hold that I don't want, I'll look into that, thanks for that.

 

Oh! I'm very sorry for that. I guess I shouldn't use the multi-quote option that excessive.

Edit:
I've just seen that I mixed Thomas and Rodknee too. I'll try to fix that.

 

I don't think so, I think in all he's a very good hearted guy, remember, Canonical isn't even profitable yet, and he needs to direct it into becoming profitable. He's stated that he wants to do that by offering services *around* software - the software will be entirely free.

As for wodim, it works for me, but I wouldn't consider that a major issue.

As for Ubuntu One still being there, you can try to install just vanilla gnome and remove the Ubuntu-specifics. By the way, while Pidgin is no longer default, it's still supported.

 

On proprietary, I use this definition.

 

I believe him that he wants to be the "benevolent dictator". And I believe that he really tries to be that. But the main problem is still that he is the dictator. It's his money, so it's his choice, but if he would really like to offer a free system, he should share his power so that his decisions can be overridden if necessary.
Have a look at Debian! Debra is gone like swallowed up by the earth and the last thing I knew about Ian was that he worked for SUN. I guess Debian wouldn't exist anymore if they hadn't given away the control over the project.

 

Well, I prefer this one:
Categories of Free and Nonfree Software - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF)

What about Open source software that has restrictions on which parts of the source code you may inspect (e.g. TrueCrypt) or on who is allowed to access it (often the case in academic contexts)? Do you consider that to be proprietary or not?

 

Well, Linus Torvalds calls himself "benevolent dictator" of linux
Also, Shuttleworth makes a lot of decisions, but he's not even CEO anymore.

Usually per license. I consider FSF's list of free software licenses "free", and others not to be(usually, I don't put all faith in their hands).

I'm not a huge fan of GNU's licensing and copyright policies though.

I'm also not familiar with TrueCrypt at all.

 

Well whichever. Those are just my feelings. What I meant by proprietary, I was talking about stuff like Ubuntu One, and other stuff that's only Canonical. I may go with a vanilla gnome install, or just go to Xubuntu.

 

It may only be used in Ubuntu, but it *is* available to any distribution that would choice to use it.

 

I'm not so sure that Canonical would take very kindly to someone else implementing Ubuntu One on their distro. Especially when part of it has to do with the Ubuntu Music Store.

 

The beauty of Linux is that if one distribution isn't doing things the way you want, the are a few hundred others to try.

Also, Slackware is pretty much a dictatorship and it has managed to hang around for awhile.

 

The problem with that is that Ubuntu is gaining popularity, some at the expense of other linux distros. That means that quality developers will target ubuntu at its default setup, sort of forcing you into a lock in for Shuttleworth's vision.

 

I don't consider that to be the only truth, but the GNU philosophy has certain advantages if you want to ensure that your code not only is, but also stays free. I know that licenses like BSDL or CDDL are more liberal, which might be more attractive in certain situations. But I don't consider one or the other to be superior. Both have different strengths and weaknesses.

They release their source code, but only for the current release. They don't offer a source code archive of older releases, not to mention an svn archive. So you can't really track changes.

This might seem a bit pedantic, but what you mean has nothing to do with being "proprietary". There are different valid definitions of that term and whenever you talk about it you have to make clear which one you apply. But they all have in common, that the access to the code and/or the use of the binary is restricted somehow. This is just not true for Ubuntu one. Everybody can use the binaries and everybody can inspect the source code.

Why not? In fact there were discussions in the Debian community to implement Ubuntu One, and I never heard someone from Canonical who didn't like it. Afaik it was dropped because many people at Debian didn't want it. I know one or two Debian users who made it work on their Debian nevertheless.

That's really a problem. A lot of Ubuntus market share is due to replacing other distros: Suse in Germany, Mandrake/Mandriva in Poland, Kurumin in parts of South America, Red Flag in China and so on. It's good that everybody speaks the same "language" now, but one strength of Linux has always been its diversity. And that's what I see in danger. I already see a lot of people speaking of "Linux" but actually meaning only Ubuntu. I find that somehow discriminatory. It's the same like speaking of "the OS" but only meaning Windows.

 

Well actually, considering they'd make money from it....

Not what I meant, I meant on policies for contributing code to GNU projects.

 

Well I don't know, but either way I just don't like having a lot of integrated software and "features" installed for me. I will say that I still really like Ubuntu and will continue to use it for the time being atleast. I just don't like the direction it's heading. I'm using 10.04 right now because I still haven't recieved my 10.10 discs. Since it's an LTR release I should be good to go for a couple of years atleast.