Ideal Partition Set-Up For Dual Boot

I should be getting my ThinkPad T400 soon. When I do, I want to set it up to dual boot between Ubuntu 8.10 and Vista. I'm fairly certain that the ThinkPad will come with a hidden backup partition.

I'm looking for the best way to partition my hard drive.
I read through this article: link

What I got from it is that the best way to partition it would be to have four separate partitions: One for the Linux OS, one for its swap space, one for the Vista OS, and yet another for the OS-independent files (such as documents, music, pictures, etc).

The first thing I want to ask is if you guys agree with this statement. If not, what do you think is the optimal setup?

Secondly, the article I referenced mentioned there being some problems with the ThinkPad backup partition that prevented this "ideal" setup. In this case, the author recommended storing all those OS-independent files in the NTFS- formatted Windows partition. Has anyone else run into this problem, which supposedly prevents such a four-partition setup?

 

My partitions are set up as: Vista, Ubuntu, and Swap space. Then I use a 2 GB SD card that I never take out of my laptop as a shared partition.

 

that setup sounds good, very similar to mine:

/ (root - where the linux filesystem is stored)
/home (for all my documents and stuff)
WinXP

ive also got another partition formatted in fat32 for some reason, dont remember why i created it

I dont use swap since i have 2gb ram and i never need to sleep/hibernate.

 

Here's mine (attached)

The results were actually a bit of a mistake - I screwed up Vista when I tried to shrink it with GParted (didn't know about the Vista partitioner) and had to reinstall from recovery DVD's. The DVD's eliminated the original Acer partitioning, which had four primary partitions. When the recovery DVD's were done, I had one big Vista partition, which made installing Ubuntu easier!

I'd like to ask if others have had the same experience after running recovery discs on an Acer - did the abundance of partitions go away?

 

The problem with the Thinkpad backup partition is that it's already one primary partition.
Having another one for Vista, one for Linux, one for swap and one for personal files isn't possible afaik; you can only have 4 primary partitions.
You can however keep the Thinkpad backup partition (primary) and then Vista (primary), Personal files (primary) and one extended partition with inside Linux "/" (logical drive), /swap (logical) and "/home" (logical).
Then you can use the /home partition, which doesn't need to be big, for settings.
So you would end up with;
Primary: Thinkpad backup
Primary: Vista
Primary: Personal files
Extended(Linux): /, swap, /home

Cheers.

 

Why would you want to keep the ThinkPad recovery partition at all? Why not make your DVD's then get rid of the partition altogether?

Also, if it was important to keep a separate partition for personal files (I assume this would be music files and such that you'd want to access from either OS) why not make that partition logical instead of primary? In other words, primary for the recovery (if it's necessary to keep it), primary for Windows boot, extended partition enclosing logical partitions for Linux and another logical for personal data.

To me, the link in the original post makes some sense if, and only if, you jump back and forth from Linux to Windows to work on or access the same data, whether that data is e-mails, music, documents, etc.

How many people actually do that? I don't, not very often. Windows refuses to look at the Linux data, but Ubuntu can access documents, pictures, etc. on the Windows side, and I've done that a few times.

On the rare occasion that I NEED to work on something (.jpg, .odt, what have you) in Windows that's stored on the Linux side I just make a copy with a thumb drive and bring it over.

I'm not saying that it's a bad idea to do what the link suggests, just wondering if it's worth the extra complexity, especially if you're fairly new to Linux and partitioning.

The "synchronize" idea toward the bottom of the article, now that looks like it might be handy...

 

I don't know if anyone can say there is an ideal or "best" partition setup. It kind of is usage dependent. For example some people have separate partitions for /opt and /var, I don't. The partition setup you mentioned is usually good for a normal user. I did a clean install of Vista and removed the recovery partition. Right now I have the partition scheme mentioned below. It is simple and is perfect for my uses. I would start with that for now and as you use the system more you will get a better idea if your partition setup needs to be modified on the next install. This is what I did when I was figuring out what partitions I needed. A lot of books I read mentions creating a lot more partitions which I believe can be helpful in a larger multiuser environment like on a server.

Vista
SWAP
/
/home

 

Thanks for the suggestions.

I'm also curious about what the answer is to the question that Telkwa asked, namely why it's needed that the partition that holds personal data should need to be primary, and why it couldn't be logical instead.

It seems that if I can back up and then delete the ThinkPad built-in back up partition, then I should have no problem creating a system where I have creating four main primary partitions: NTFS for Windows partition, NTFS for for personal data, FAT32 for Ubuntu (or any other Linux OS), and ext3 for its swap space. I'm not sure about the filetype stuff...if I got it right or not.

I'm a bit confused about this idea of an extended partition and how it's different from the normal way of partitioning a section of the hard drive for Linux. From what I understand, it allows the partition to be non-primary and have a logical ... aspect...err something?

Lastly, it is agreed upon that it's useful to have a separate partition for personal data, right? I was under the impression that it helps because if the OS crashes or something, the personal data partition should be unaffected. Also perhaps it helps speed-wise somehow? I'm not sure.

 

Making Windows NTFS is perfect. I advise you to make any of the Linux partitions ext3, not fat32. There are a lot more filesystem types, but I like ext3. Having your data on a NTFS partition should be fine. Both Linux and Windows can read from and write to that. If you are mainly going to use Linux then you can make the partition that holds data as ext3 also. This is what I have done since I do my real work in Linux and only play games in Windows.

I am not an expert on the whole thing but basically you can have 4 primary partitions. Since the need for more partitions came about over the years, there came this concept of extended partitions. Basically 3 partitions would be primary and the fourth would be extended. With in the extended partition you would have logical partitions. Kind of like a Russian doll concept. There is a lot more to this but I haven't gotten into it much. Research it if you want. I try to just stick with 4 primary partitions total right now as I don't have the time to research the whole thing at the moment, learning a million other things right now.

Yes, you have the right idea. If the OS gets hosed you can just reinstall that, since it is on a separate partition, without touching your data.

 

^, jtan,

You can put your data/personal files on a logical partition within the extended partition, it would look like this if you would use Gparted to make the partitions.
But as there is no compelling reason to put the NTFS-data logical partition inside an extended one, like in the picture, I'd advice to follow Fire Snake's suggestion and simply shrink your Vista partition (after defragging it!) and make another primary NTFS partition for your personal files.
And indeed, use ext3 for linux, swap for swap (duh) and NTFS for Vista and data.
Cheers.

 

Thanks for the help. I understand all this a lot better now.

One question - Do I need to partition and format a section of my hard drive as ext3 and another one as swap before I install Linux (in my case, Ubuntu), or will installing the OS automatically create them? Say I create all the partitions prior to the Ubuntu installation - will I then be able to tell Ubuntu to install on the already existing ext3 partition and then have its swap space on the alreading existing swap partition? I've only had experience with installing Ubuntu when I started with one big NTFS partition - shrank that - and then installed Ubuntu in the free space. So I'm not sure how to go about this.

 

It is easier to create it beforehand with software like Gparted, but you can do it during install. Ubuntu's partitioner is really counterintuitive compared to gparted.

You can, and this is what I prefer to do. Using manual partitioning mode, Ubuntu will recognize partitions, but will not do anything with them (except swap, which is handled automatically) allowing you to assign the mount points.

 

Alright, I guess that's what I'll do then.

I'm also going to set up my current laptop to triple boot between Ubuntu, XP, and Vista. Since I'll be wanting a partition for personal data, this means I'll have 5 partitions (including the swap space). I know that a hard drive can have a max of four primary partitions. So I guess one option would be to make an extended partition for Ubuntu. If that's the only option, then I'll have to do that and start researching extended partitions. But would it also be possible in this case to simply make the personal data partition to be logical, and all the rest primary? This wouldn't require any dealings with extended partitions (I don't think).

EDIT:
I did some more research. Am I correct in thinking that a logical partition can only exist inside of an extended partition?
In the case of my triple boot, I'm thinking the best way to go about things would be the following setup:
1 primary partition for XP (with NTFS filesystem)
1 primary partition for Vista (with NTFS filesystem)
1 primary partition for personal data and files (documents, musics, pictures, videos, etc.) (with NTFS filesystem)
1 primary partition set up as an extended partition (itself partitioned as follows):
> 1 logical partition for /home (I guess it's good practice to do this)
> another logical partition for the ubuntu installation (don't know what the name for it is)
> yet another logical partition for swap space

How does that set up sound? Lastly, does it matter in which order I create the partitions?

 

"It seems that if I can back up and then delete the ThinkPad built-in back up partition, then I should have no problem creating a system where I have creating four main primary partitions: NTFS for Windows partition, NTFS for for personal data, FAT32 for Ubuntu (or any other Linux OS), and ext3 for its swap space. I'm not sure about the filetype stuff...if I got it right or not."

This might be a mess cause I'm trying to catch several things. In my experience, you can't create four primary partitions. Well, I haven't been able to, and have tried several times using GParted. Every time I've tried, it balks and says "you already have three primaries, you can't make another" or something like that. So unless someone else knows how, I don't know how you'd make four primaries.
It's ext3 for Linux, not FAT32.
You can make the swap partition yourself if you choose, but it must be "linux-swap", not ext3.
If you just make an area for Linux to install to, and format it as ext3, the Linux installer will carve out a partition and format it as "linux-swap". Since the installer will try to make another partition, thats another reason for doing it in inside an extended partition!

Look carefully at the partition table I attached, and the one that Baserk linked. At first they just look like gobbledy-gook, but study them for similarities and you'll start to see them. I understand your confusion about extended/primary/logical. I was very uncomfortable with those terms for weeks.
Just remember:
4 primary partitions per drive (and you make not be able to make a fourth!)
Think of the extended partition as a box for logical partitions. One extended partition per drive, then you can make several logical partitions inside the extended "box".
Windows cannot start from within an extended partition. It has to be primary. Linux CAN start from within an extended partition!

"One question - Do I need to partition and format a section of my hard drive as ext3 and another one as swap before I install Linux (in my case, Ubuntu), or will installing the OS automatically create them? Say I create all the partitions prior to the Ubuntu installation - will I then be able to tell Ubuntu to install on the already existing ext3 partition and then have its swap space on the alreading existing swap partition? I've only had experience with installing Ubuntu when I started with one big NTFS partition - shrank that - and then installed Ubuntu in the free space. So I'm not sure how to go about this."

If you create all the Linux partitions beforehand, let's say three partitions for /, swap, and /home, then you have to choose the "manual install" option in the Ubuntu installer, then you have to know how to mount each partition correctly. This is NOT HARD, but the first few times you'll feel lost. I did it over and over several times on a practice PC. Now it's fun!

If your head is already hurting, just create enough space for Ubuntu, either free space or formatted to ext3, and let it auto-install. Ubuntu will make the swap partition automatically.

Reading thru your last post, an extended partition is an extended partition. It's not a primary with an extended inside.
I still don't see any reason to make a shared data partition primary.
Yes, logical partitions, which actually hold data, are held inside the extended partition, which is just a box for the logicals.

If you create separate partitions for Linux, the Linux OS is mounted as "/", the swap is "swap", and a home partition is mounted as "/home". I know, it's confusing at first, but it's only confusing because you're not used to the new concepts, not because they're actually hard to grasp.

Hang in there!

 

I have four partition:
Vista: 130gb
/ (root ext3) 12gb
/home (ext3) 86gb
/linux-swap 2gb

works for me in all circumstances....FWIW

 

I think I'm beginning to understand all this partition talk.

I think that, in the case of my triple-boot system, I'm going to use the partition setup I mentioned last [noting that the extended partition is not a primary partition]. I plan on creating and formatting the partitions with Acronis Disk Director (or I guess I could use gparted by booting off the live CD) prior to the Ubuntu installation, so I guess I'll be diving into a manual install. Not too sure about this whole "mounting partitions" thing, but I'll search around before asking about that.

Seriously, thanks to everyone for all your help so far.

 

i have 160 Gb HD, so I put 100Gb for XP and 40 Gb for Ubuntu.

ubuntu can access all my documents (movie, music, etc2) that I put in windows anyway.

 

Jtan, just make sure you defragment partitions before resizing them.

 

Thanks for the reminder Baserk. I'll make sure to do that.

 

jtan -
Somebody (I would have already but don't have broadband) must have built a graphical guide to manually mounting /, swap, and /home. Maybe aysiu, of the psychocats website? Or on YouTube? Like I said before, it's not technically difficult, but hard to understand the first time or two.
There are many different maps for manually partitioning - some folks have /opt, /var, /boot etc. as separate partitions, but I've found a separate home partition is very handy and probably the only separate data partition most people would need.
Aside from swap of course.