Linux friendly manufacturers?

When it comes to business computing, which company do you think is the most Linux friendly?

I use Linux on all my businesses servers and pcs, so I would like to give my business to a company that supports Linux.

Out of the three companies that can offer a complete line of business computers: Dell, HP and Lenovo, which is the best as it relates to Linux.

 

From what I've read, Dell is meant to be one of the best Linux Friendly manufacturers, along with Lenovo/IBM of course.

 

yup..joel is correct..Dell..lenovo/imb..i also read that acer's are pretty good.
You may also want to check out system76..they build and and sell laptops with linux preinstalled
http://www.system76.com/

 

Oh, yes, and how could I forget Acer! Them system76 computers look nice!

 

Dell also sells systems with Ubuntu preinstalled, even to consumers.

 

booboo12 is right of course, but there is no benefit to buying it with Linux preinstalled. You don't save any money, and it's often that it costs more. I think you are better off buying it with a Windows license if for nothing else, resale value.

http://www.dell.com/business/laptop...m&navValc=FreeDOS and Linux&a=80770~0~1791343

That said, pretty much any business class Dell will be fully Linux compatible with the possible exception of the Z600/Latitude 13 - too lazy too look.

 

When you guys talk about Dell and Lenovo, do they provide actual support and debugging? Or do you mean they're Linux friendly because of all the Intel parts?

More generally, you just want Intel/nVidia parts. While it can be done, AMD/ATI chipsets have less support and Broadcom/Realtek/Atheros wireless can also be an obstacle. Sticking to Intel CPU/Graphics/Wireless, maybe with nVidia if you need the graphics power will mean everything will work out of the box on Linux.

 

I know Dell provides support..don't know about debugging..possibly..??
i agree..intel/nvidia is your best bet for better "out of the box" support...

 

keep these in mind...intel/nvidia/epson/HP

 

Yeah Dell does support for both consumers and businesses, and also adds Dell specific features and functionality if one desires.

 

Manufacturers are not to be blame for the lack of Linux support.
But fingers should be pointed out to the component makers. their product are the key factors linked lack of drivers or bugs.

One such example is SiS Technologies, on their video graphic drivers... always a tough challenge to deal with.(fails with .deb or .sls as well as other distros)

 

As far as OEMs are concerned, there are only a handful that make decisions about components with Linux in mind. Small builders like System76 are the best, as Linux is their primary concern. Though I'm somewhat thankful to companies like Dell that offer Linux at all, often they limit its use to a few, low end, low priced models. For instance, I tried to configure a Studio XPS one day with Linux - the Ubuntu model did not allow the use of the higher end processor options. There were no technical reasons why Linux wouldn't work on a faster and better Intel processor, but yet it and MANY other desirable and high end features were only available on the Windows model. I'd like to see Linux as simply part of the configuration right next to Windows 7 Home Premium and Ultimate, if they are going to commit to Linux, without limiting the hardware choices. Some other OEMs don't even choose Linux compatible parts, sadly - even though they are often the best of their class (Think of crappy Broadcom chipsets compared to Intel WiFi) and installed on high end machines.

The other problem is that the machines that DO have linux support are typically the clunky, ugly, often older technology machines. I'd love to see System76 offer a sleek, powerful, and well built notebook similar to a MacBook Pro or Sony Z, adorned with premium materials, but its not to be.

Linux is growing, and I'd love to buy a preinstalled Linux notebook to show that it is my OS of choice, but I can't compromise the top of the line hardware,aesthetics, and build I'm looking for.

 

Linux now is such a mature kernel that it should identify all the hardware on a new computer. Gone are the days of ndiswrapper for Broadcom wireless adapters.

I wouldn't be concerned about the brand to buy. Just buy the brand you like with the best bang-for-buck or design or quality. I would still recommend getting a computer that comes with a Windows CD (Dell does that, don't know about others) because it's quite useful for chkdsk and other functions. Thus, I wouldn't go for System76.

 

If you stick with free distributions, Broadcom drivers are still not included by default.

 

I'm pretty sure they fixed it in arch. But I could be wrong

 

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Broadcom_BCM4312

 

Aye. But that points out a good point again, that it is really the manufacturers and hardware people that are slowing down Linux's growth. From an economic point of view, they just don't see big advantage.

 

I wasn't actually worried about compatibility as any business laptop, which is what I require, is certified for Linux. Be it HP, Lenovo, or Dell. After further research, I think HP is actually the most open to alternative OSs, at least in their business lines. Dell seems to offer Ubuntu in very limited doses, and doesn't allow a Ubuntu laptop to be spec'd out. To me Dell is just doing it to do it, not because they care at all about Ubuntu or any form of Linux. HP offers most business laptops with an alternate OS option which actually knocks the cost down a bit. According to a rep, the Alternate OS is FreeDOS, which isn't Linux, but it's free and you aren't subject to the Windows tax. With HP you can order with the latest technology in your laptop, as opposed to Dell where you are buying a new outdated laptop. Lenovo is pretty Linux friendly, though only due to there association with IBM I assume. With Lenovo it seems the quality is declining and they make it hard to order a laptop with out Windows. From what I can tell, you don't even have the option to order anything but Windows on some thinkpad models. I was surprised by what I discovered, seeing as how prior to all this I was under the impression that HP was buddy-buddy with Microsoft. While I think this is still true in many respects, they do seem to be willing to satisfy the customer before Microsoft, which is great in my opinion. HP has great printer support for Linux as well. So for now I will be making my business laptop purchases from HP. If they start building better consumer products, I may make HP my one stop shop.

 

EPoncier, I think you want to find a PC manufacturer that care about Linux and it's open-source and freedom philosophy (you don't care about the compatibility of the components as nowadays almost all hardwares are compatible).

The problem, the manufacturers (at least most of them) are looking for money benefits. So they found in Micro$oft their alliance because of Windows monopoly in the market. Even HP that you have figured out that they are the best Linux friendly manufacturer, if you go to there home web-page you will see the obligatory Micro$oft alliance slogan in the top of the page " Windows®. Life without Walls™. HP recommends Windows 7 " !!

Further more, DELL is obligated to pay to M$ for every sold PC even if it's Linux preloaded, because this was the contract. DELL seems to be a little smart and know that there exist some buyers that will not buy a laptop if it's licensed Windows simply because they don't want to give even a cent for M$; so what Dell did was only hiding the Windows license and selling the PC under the free Linux license.

If we want to support the open-source philosophy and the freedom to choose whatever you want without being obligated to stuck always with Micro$oft, you have to avoid all these big brands and instead you go to the small manufacturers that import their own barebones and brand themselves like System76, Rjtech, Avadirect in USA and Novatux and others in Europe. Note that all of them actually build their PC from a Clevo barebone. This is not surprising because Clevo is one of the few ODM's lifted without exclusive contracts with the big PC manufacturers. Clevo has a wide range from low-end to very high-end PC line (even beat the big brands). You can go to www.clevo.com.tw and check their products. The only problem that you will not find always the model you want in your country, because every region have adopted for some models only.

Finally, I would like to add my opinion about the WI-FI Linux compatibility, I advice Atheros vs Intel, because they really has a Linux development community with much more choices to manipulate even the core of the chips. You can even use their powerful open-source drivers to hack your neighbour network

 

Yes, a company that directly supports and recommends Linux, or at least doesn't recommend Windows would be nice, but I don't expect that any time soon. What I want is the option to purchase with out paying for Windows. Unfortunately, going with a company like System 76 is not an option as I need in excess of 30 laptops, and I need them to be fully featured and parts-supported for years. HP, DELL, LENOVO are the only realistic options for business users at this time. HP is definitely a Windows based manufacturer, bu not exclusively, and I don't feel like they are a slave to Microsoft. They offer sizable discounts for a Windows-less PC with identical specs. So obviously they don't have to play by the same rules as Dell. Interestingly, HP is primarily a printer company in terms o revenue, so they are probably freer than Dell to do what is best for HP and not HP and Microsoft. HP said all new elitebooks are guaranteed to work with Linux, this includes webcams, smart card readers, wifi cards, etc. The whole laptop. You don't get that from Dell or even Lenovo.

Another interesting thing to note that I learned about Lenovo and IBM: IBM now owns less than 2% of Lenovo according to some sources and they are looking to completely sell off all remaining shares in the near future. Doesn't seem like IBM is too optimistic about Lenovo. It's not like IBM needed the cash, they have plenty of that. Moreover, the Chinese government is major share holder of Lenovo, that is something I am really not a fan of. It seems to me that IBM may want to find a new partner for PCs in the future, say 3-5 years. I would love to see an IBM and Dell merger and/or alliance , could you imagine? Dell has the distribution down, and they know how to design good looking computers that people want to buy. Combine that with IBM's quality control, innovation, open source philosophies, and customer support and you have the ultimate PC company. Unfortunately, IBM has no desire to get back in the PC business anytime soon, so a merger is probably not gonna happen. And Dell competes with IBM in the server market so I don't know how open Dell would be to PC partnership with IBM.

 

You could also look at this from another angle, IBM could be feeling more confident than ever that Lenovo is doing the right things with the ThinkPad brand, ensuring that they can retain core buyers and yet attract new people to the brand...which is crucial for any product line despite what loyalists say. They could see selling off as them finally being able to focus solely on whatever IBM does now, and as a sign to the outside world/Lenovo that they trust them...that they can "let their baby go" as it will.

 

I don't know what you mean by "parts-supported" but you will never find a manufacturer that will give you Linux Software technical support except System76. If you are looking for hardware warranty, then more or less they all give a free 1 year that can be extended for another 2 years.

For the "fully featured", Syste76 doesn't have a lot of choices when it comes to components, but you are talking about 30 pcs so i think you can contact them and ask whatever you want to add. If you don't mind completely about Linux software support then better go directly with Sager, they build Clevo barbones and brand them by their name, but also redistribute non-branded Clevo for other manufacturer-reseller like System76. For that, you will have less price and always the same hardware warranty, but you will loose the Windows software technical support comes with their branded Sager, or the Linux software technical support come with the System76 brand. Furthermore you can ask them to add whatever you want to your units or better buy only barebones and add your flavour of ODD, HDD, CPU, RAM, OS yourself and save more money for a fantastic performance resulting Laptop

 

By Parts-Supported, I am referring to the availability of replacement parts for years after a model is introduced. HP, Dell, and Lenovo all offer replacement parts of business notebooks for years after a model is released. I don't need Tech support for Linux, if I did I wouldn't get it through the manufacturer anyway, I'd go with a company like Novell, Red Hat or Canonical.


@BooBoo, selling off a companies stock doesn't show any trust whatsoever in that company. IBM has plenty of cash and if they felt Lenovo was looking promising they would hold on to their 15% in stock. IBM didn't have any real say over Lenovo either, 15% is not controlling interest. IBM only shows their press release stating that they own 15% in stock, this press release is very old. There is nothing telling customers that IBM now owns less than 2%. Doesn't really sound like they want to spread the word or promote that fact. Not the sign of a company that is optimistic about another.

 

EPoncier, I don't think you really need to look at it from the perspective of a 'Linux friendly manufacturer.' Imho, though. I'm saying this because of heavily researching this topic. I don't have rolls of money lying around so buying a laptop that would have any hardware that would give me trouble would be highly annoying putting it mildly. I don't have the patience to google for workarounds of problematic hardware. The most I'm willing to do is 'solve problems' with hardware that is already compatible but contains proprietary hardware. Nvidia and Intel wireless drivers are two examples. Both have good support and generally work well but often there is some work needed to get working.

Broadcom used to be a major problem regarding wireless and I don't know how much it's improved but that hardware is sometimes used in Dell and HP machines. I would research what hardware is in the laptops you're interested in and how well it works. Therefore, I suggest asking owners of these laptops in Linux-oriented forums. Perhaps, there's owners of such machines here using Linux, you never know. The hardware manufacturers don't really go to much effort ensuring Linux compatibility, let's face it. All of them have Windows as their main market. It's the developers who are taking the hardware and coming up with compatible drivers. Luckily, the hardware doesn't change drastically from machine to machine comparatively speaking. So, Intel might be the wireless card and there might be 'upgraded' hardware but usually there's not a drastic change like Intel to Broadcom. Sometimes, it happens but right now, Linux developers know for wireless, they need to support Intel, Broadcom and maybe Realtek hardware. Atheros is another but they've had open source drivers for a while now.

The other problem is probably video hardware and then you get the ages old Nvidia versus ATI debate. Other than that, you might have web cam hardware issues but the rest of the machine, I think it is pretty generic with only brand name changes.

I am skeptical about Lenovo, too. I would be concerned about the Chinese side's influence but then Chinese manufacturers seem to be running the show for every laptop brand now. IBM not influencing Lenovo isn't an issue with respect to Linux but it might be a debate regarding current quality compared to when IBM was more of a factor.

Compatibility in Linux is more about the actual individual hardware components or the chips underneath the brand label and less about the laptop brand.

 

Here is some citations from the Clevo Service Program. And no, I'm not working with Clevo or System76 or Sager, I'm not even located in USA. I'm in Saudi Arabia, and I know Clevo because I tried to start business with them here in Saudi Arabia, unfortunately the market here believes only in big brands even if what inside is really bad, this is the culture here, big names big brands, even Linux most people have never heard about.

 

I agree that the hardware compatibility is the biggest issue for Linux users. But just finding one computer with good hardware, regardless of the manufacturer doesn't really cut it, because what if they decide to change up hardware providers on the next model? People buy Lenovo and HP business models because you can trust that these companies will continue to certify Linux on their machines. As a businessman I need to be able to deal with one company for years and not have to hunt for a good manufacturer every 3-5 years.

System 76 and Clevo look like good companies, but to compete for my business they have a ways to go. I need smart card readers built in, I don't want to buy express card versions for each computer and have to get those working thirty times. I also don't see any computers offered that would meet the durability requirements to compete as a business laptop.

 

If it's business machines you want, just go with the best deal, imho. The business lines are less likely the models in which the company that makes them to be cutting corners.

Choose a manufacturer that offers configuration options so Lenovo or Dell, perhaps. Those two ALWAYS has an Intel option for both wireless and graphics. Linux devs will always upgrade and maintain support for Intel hardware. Also, both have discrete graphics options but all manufacturers regardless of business line or consumer line will change graphics 'brands/makes' between changes of laptop models. For whatever reason, getting a better deal or more comfortable with the make at the time etc., they won't necessarily go with the same make (i.e. Nvidia or ATI) when they introduce the next model line.

So, it depends what you want and what kind of consistency you need.

 

Guys, if you haven't found the linux compatible laptop that you want, I urge you to write System76 and other linux shops detailing exactly what you're looking for.

I for instance, wrote them to ask that they commission a "Premium" model that is high powered, well built, made of premium materials, aesthetically pleasing, and thin/light in relation to the power. Similar to a MacBook Pro, Sony Z, or HP Envy for instance. If you like I am looking for the same, let them know! They said they take into consideration customer suggestions like mine, and they have access to ODMs, as resellers!

Here' hoping that they have a 13" 1600x900 LED backlit high gamut screen, Core i7-620, GeForce 335 or ATI 5830/5770 1gb, magnesium aluminum and carbon fiber, backlit keyboard, multitouch trackpad offering soon! There's a major disconnect in that there are very few "Premium" Linux PCs! Lets show that Linux users don't want a heavy, thick lump of black plastic all the time!

 

1GB external video card with a thin 13" laptop ! You will burn your laptop