Thinking about going back to windows...

well, and companies can change.

oh, and another thing: companies focus on making business. serving their customers needs is one way to do that. and that is what this secure option is all about.

make sure nothing malicious can in any way harm the system till the point where the antivirus of choice actually kicks in. a very understandable wish to have. and microsoft delivers.

searching google for wrongs about microsoft is rather funny. as if google would be any better

reason they're on top is not because they're horrible (they aren't, not compared to google or apple), but because they deliver what customers want.

you miss much by just hating on microsoft based on some of their past that they did wrong. there are much more people at that company, and a lot of them do great work.

anyways, linux fanboys.. i thought they are smart and knowledgeable. and fair. looks like i'm wrong?

 

Not a fanboy, I just use what works for me. Thats the nice thing about choice, whether Linux or windows.

My point was not to bash MS! It was to bring light to the fact that what they are doing may not just be what it looks like on the outside. I run both and they run fine.

As I said before, I truly hope I am wrong.

 

Either I have serious problem expressing myself or you have serious problem reading what other said(and don't know what you said). Not meant as an insult and did more of that.

And no need to pull rank or showing seniority here. I chose DR-DOS over MS-DOS. GEM over original Windows, OS/2 Warp over NT(in some occasions).

 

Good! Was I trying to pull rank? Not my intention.

Me and you come from the same school, so why are we arguing?

That means that we both understand we are about 50% right and either one of us could be correct. We could look at the past and go EEEEKKKK, I don't like this! Or you could be correct and all is fine.

For the sake of freedom (which in the end is what I defend) I hope you are right.

And again, if you feel I insulted you, sorry. Not my intention!

 

Im sticking with linux. Until I can afford a 1080p laptop thats whats happening. When I get one Ill test the waters of win7 host linux VM, but honestly Ill probably just end up back on linux as always.

 

PCWorld Article on Windows Secure Boot

 

This would be a great time for someone like Redhat/IBM (or anyone with money) to make some commercials on how Linux supports freedom.

The sad thing is that most computer users have no concern with this because of lack of being educated about this. People who start to use Linux do so because they think it sounds cool or someone said they should try. If the system don't work with Linux or adds that extra step, we potentially lost a user (of course MS knows this).

I think the best we can do is make it a point to let people know! This can go 2 ways with Linux, it can grow, or growth can simply stall. The latter would not be all that bad (face it, Linux does fine with low numbers of users), but to have it stall do to MS/OEMs taking away the freedom of choice... That's just plain wrong!

 

Linux on desktop is dead. Not because Microsoft's dirty tactics but the simple reason that Microsoft stuff are better. On the server side though, it is something that Microsoft have hard time to kill it(and I would say never will be able to).

I have gone to great length to make sure all my machines are 100% linux compatible BUT never use it as the hosting OS as the productivity would go down the drain.

However, I always keep a VM of linux ready as the command shell(and the assoicated utilities) of Windows is so bad.

 

I agree!

I think a lot of the problem with Linux is there is nothing to call its own. Linux spends to much time trying to cater to windows users and not enough time becoming its own OS.

Gimp cannot touch Photoshop, games are always ported to windows (why?), other prts always seem to target other OSs as well.

Linux needs a big game that only runs on Linux (attract gamers), needs software that outdoes what other are running on windows (and only runs on Linux). They need to stop worrying about windows!

I think the desktop of Linux is fine, no marketing, all projects available on windows and the mass collection of 100+ distros just deter new users. Linux really needs to come in its own.

 

Funny! I haven't noticed that in the past five years. My last Windows installation vanished 3 years ago after sitting idle on my HDD without a single boot for approximately one year.
The simple reason is: It didn't fit my needs. In other words: Microsoft stuff was not better.

So I'm tempted to make the wild guess that what is "better" is very individual and there isn't one single answer for all users.

 

With a 2% market share divided by dozens of distro, that is going to be though. Now, if one standard could be established...

Agreed.

I will not say better, but it does meet the needs of the average use more because of driver and software compatibility.

 

We do have superb Open GL support.

Imagine, a game like Wow only running on Linux, or even a game like EVE. Users would come in flocks!

A good example is my other hobby is HF radio and scanners. I belong to an radio enthusiast site and now more digital broadcasts are becoming the norm. There is a program that runs only on Linux and decodes these signals, this has switched many users of radio to Linux to use this.

An OS is nothing but a tool! An OS that fits a need works. Radio users get that need filled, if gamers could, developers could (and they do), photo people could, music producers could all get what they need in Linux.... We would see huge influx of users and some of these users might even be able to improve Linux in many different ways.

Don't get me wrong, I have used Linux for years. But I do have to keep windows around for my gaming needs which I feel is sad. I would support a good Linux game (and would much rather) with my money as I feel I am forced to support windows developers, not that bad but I would like to rid myself of windows all together. At this point that is just not possible as my machine is my entertainment, wish I could...

 

I do not know if one game would do it. I remember how excited I was was running Neverwinter Nights on Mandrake Linux. And it worked 100% bug free. Quake was cool too.

But things are changing. We are becoming more cross platform. With the scheme of more divergent major operating systems Android, iOS and Window, cloud computing and HTML 5, I think we will see more cross platform apps and even games. I do not know how all this will turn out, but MS advantage of software compatibility should be eroded little by little every year.

Even as thing stand now, I could happily live with just Linux. For 2011, the only time I booted a Windows machine was to try out the Windows 8 Developer Preview.

But I do have to admit that I use Linux on my DTR. For my carry unit, it will be Windows of Mac OSX (more dependent on the hardware I buy than a preference for either OS). Linux power management for portables still leaves something to be desired.

 

My productivity went up when switching to linux. I just have to keep a windows vm for .net development.

 

when I say better, it is in a more general sense that covers many aspect. An example, I find the fonts in Windows much more appealing than under any version of linux. Is this functionality ? Noop but it has effect on my productivity.

Similarly, I need IME other than English and having that works under linux is painful, under Windows it is quite simple.

It is all these things(basically rough edges like sure OpenOffice can do what Office for most tasks but they just look so awful) that I mean Windows are better.

I am sure there are people who need certain aspect of linux(say the 3D cube thing in Compiz? or the multiple desktop) that is very powerful but in general, applications on Windows are much more polished.

 

I need a useful console via ssh and vpn (and applications that can be used that way). I need ARM and SPARC support. I need a system that can run an ftp server on a 80486 box with 8MB RAM. And I need a system that allows me to code my own drivers for certain hardware.
Show me how I accomplish all that in Windows and still keep it easier than in Linux! If you do that I'll stop questioning your claim that Windows is "better in a more general sense".
I don't care for fancy effects like Aero or the latest games. I just want a system that doesn't get in my way when I do my job.

 

ARM and SPARC support doesn't sound like a general requirement. I believe there are simulator running under x86.

I don't know why you need an ftp server on 80486 and can't find relavancy of it and Windows. It is a stand alone machine, just run linux.

I care for fancy effects like Aero(not the animation but the Expose equivalent, Aero Peek which has quite an effect to my productivity as I have lots of putty, rdp session opened doing things in the background).

EDIT:
and I do use openvpn to link up all my Windows, linux VM and in one case WRT54G router via a VPS hub(i.e. openvpn server).

 

And you are the one to define what is a "general requirement" for every person on this planet?

Sure! I'll just run massively parallelized applications on a bunch of x86 machines instead of a single SPARC or increase the solar panels that power my ARM embedded devices by a factor of 10 to power the hungry Atom CPU. Are you going to pay my company's bills?

Neither can I.

Guess what I'm doing!

And yet you try to tell me and hundreds of thousands of other people what is to be considered a "general requirement".

 

The ongoing argument of Windows vs. Linux is not one that can be won.

Both are tools and accomplish a task. There is no right or wrong when you choose what is right for you.

No one can win this! Just use what works for you...

 

Exactly! Why is it so hard for some people to understand that there is no "one thing suits all" because "what works for you" is something different for each person?

 

If that some people is implying me, I would be curious to know what I have said implied that "one thing suits all" or "what works for me works for everyone".

I am not the one defines that but it is safe to just look at the market share.

Again what SPARC or ARM has anything to do with Windows. You lost me again.

I am telling you that on machine that can run EITHER Windows and Linux, Windows trump Linux in terms of usage, plain and simple. Dragging in ARM/SPARC/486 is a strawman's argument. Waste of time.

There are a small percentage of people who really find it that a desktop running linux(and OSX as well) are much better than Windows. But for the majority, it is not.

 

You know, I have to ask... Are you a troll?

I mean really, you got offended by what I said earlier in this post but yet you started our whole "debate" by slinging the word "FUD". THEN, you try and end the "debate" with the word "substantiate".... This means that everything I said was without research and baseless, and then you got offended when I said "I don't have time to do your research"... But I was man enough to say "sorry".

Now you are arguing points that cannot be won! You are not going to change someones minds based on YOUR opinions. Who cares that MS has the largest market share? If all would take your approach, Apple should just close the doors and so should Linux.

I call it how I see it but you sir come across as a troll!

 

I am not arguing points that cannot be won. Won what ?

And you keep on insulting others, this time troll ?

I am not referring what you said, I said the link you provided(thus that linux guy) is closed to FUD. And I maintain that position which I have explained in multiple different way why I think it is.

And no your argument is something I continue say has nothing to substantiate but only because 'Microsoft' had done something bad so they must be doning everything bad forever.

I care less which one is better as I am constantly using both. I don't care about market share either but Windows trump the rest, based on market share figures. Just like iPad trump the rest(even though I think that sucks).

 

Well I don't feel I have insulted anyone! I don't believe you will find one person on this forum who feels I have insulted them.

You somehow have twisted everything I have said as a personal attack against you. Maybe your right, maybe my sarcasm was a little more blunt then yours, but I in no way feel I insulted anyone! These are your assumptions!

 

Yeah, this thread is well beyond repair. Remember that anywhere on this forum, learn to respect other people's opinions and understand that you won't be changing minds by hurling insults. Thread locked per OP and others' requests.