Want a lean Linux install

I'm wanting to get a lean Linux environment set up on my Lenovo T500. I've dabbled in Linux in the past (even Gentoo, which was one of my favorites, on a few occasions), but the same sort of issues always popped up that ended up stopping me in my tracks.

1) When using a desktop environment, be it KDE, Gnome, FluxBox, etc., often something would happen, either through software update conflicts or by my own monkeying around, that would case the machine to boot to the command line, when I was, of course, expecting the graphical login. At that point, I have no idea how to get the IDE started back up, much less start up automatically again.

2) It really bothers me to get a clean OS set up (with a DE or without), only to muck it up because I'm uncertain which software I need to install to get certain functionality to work. For example, in trying to get my wireless or graphics card working, I might have to play hit-or-miss with various update packages, just trying to determine which is needed.

To some extent, I do recognize the fact that the only reason it's easier for me to solve these sorts of issues in Windows is the fact that I've been using it for over at decade. If I have a problem, I usually at least know where to start in finding a way to fix it. The problem is that sometimes the method of correcting a problem in Linux is different from one distro to another. That does make it difficult to get to a point where one feels comfortable with the prospect of approaching solving a particular problem. I almost have to re-learn the same sort of things over and over.

If someone could direct me to some focused resources that could help me better understand the following topics in Linux, I'd really appreciate it:

1. What are the various base directories use for? (/var, /proc, /usr, /etc)
2. X-11? X.org? I understand that the "X" system is what facilitates graphical functionality, but the offical website on the topic is very noob-unfriendly. Maybe X-11 for Dummies is something I should look into. Are there any freely-accessible resources online that can help me better understand where I might start looking when I have a problem getting a desktop environment to start or making changes to one that is already operational?
3. Networking. This is one area where I really get stumped if the distro I'm installing is not able to correctly set up and configure my hardware. Any troubleshooting resources to this effect would be helpful.

I've done a lot of Googling, but I often find it difficult to narrow results down to useful information. It often feels like I'm taking a lot of shots in the dark, trying all kinds of possible solutions and ending up with a lot of extra stuff having been installed that I really didn't need and not understanding fully exactly how much of what I tried along the way actually contributed to correcting the particular problem I'm working on.

Additionally, I would like recommendations on a distro that would provide the lean system I would like and that would support my hardware without a lot of stuff I don't want. I've about decided that perhaps I'm not quite ready for Gentoo. Is there another distro that starts out as a base Linux system with no frills and lets the user add what they need, but does a better job of pulling in all dependencies and such that I may not realize are also necessary?

 

I'll try and answer your question to the best of my ability friend.

1) Press alt+f2 and you'll be in a terminal where you can login and undo your mistake. You'll have to be at least intermediate level comfortable with your terminal to do this so I suggest you look at this. http://gd.tuwien.ac.at/linuxcommand.org/learning_the_shell.php with a cup of coffee/tea (make sure not to spill it).

2) Maybe you'd like a Xubuntu or Xubuntu Server install to use for this. It's pretty lean AFAIK and it supports a lot of things out of the box so you can remove what you don't want and add what you need.

3) http://lowfatlinux.com/linux-directories.html and http://www.tuxfiles.org/linuxhelp/linuxdir.html are quick and easy guides to read over to get an understanding of everything.

4) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X11 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XOrg Sometimes nothing's better than good old wikiepdia.

5) You have an intel card which should work pretty automatically in any recent distro, but in case it doesn't just snoop around your package manager for stuff concerning intel. You should find your driver quickly.

 

Thanks, Calvin. I'm quite comfortable at the command line. It's just knowing what I need to be running.

One thing I've found is that kernel version 2.6.27 or better is required for kernel-based support for the new Intel wireless cards. Sounds like in the absence of that, I could still install the driver after the fact. Two quesitons on that:

1) Since I won't have internet connectivity, the driver would have to be in the local repository. If it's there, why wouldn't the distro installer pick it up?

2) What difference does it make whether the device support is included in the kernel or whether it's loaded during boot up? I think that's referred to as "kernel-mode" drivers as opposed to.....what?

Thanks again.

 

1) I assumed you would be online, my bad. I thought you would just hook up to the router. Yeah, you have to be online to get the driver.

2) Not too much of a difference as far as I know. When it loads at boot up it just means that you can remove it easily afterwards but you'll have to manually put it in there in the first place.

 

Since you're not scared of the terminal, I would suggest trying out Arch Linux. Arch has the same philosophy that you're looking for: no frills, no clutter. It begins with the terminal and a very powerful package management system so you can build whatever kind of system you want.

No matter what distro you choose, though, I would still suggest reading Arch's awesome Beginner's Guide.

As for your network issue, you just need a 2.6.x kernel and an installer that comes with iwlwifi-5000-ucode. I know for sure that the latest 2009.x Arch installer has that. I was able to get my IWL 5100 with just the installer. For once, I didn't have to hook up ethernet.

Configuring an encrypted connection from the terminal is another thing, though. For that, I recommend this charming resource. The info should work for any recent distro.

 

As for having a "lean" graphical environment, the best way is to start out with a lightweight window manager, such as Openbox, and then manually install only those apps that you actually need to run in it. You can get a list of resource-efficient applications here.

Lightweight does not mean non-functional, and you'll be surprised as to just how powerful a system that sits on 200 MiB of RAM can be. Go with a 64-bit distro so you can use your RAM to the maximum.

200 MiB system + 3,800 MiB cache = awesomeness.

Here are some of the apps I use (My own custom-made desktop environment):

Network Manager: wicd
Image Viewer: mirage
Web Browser: firefox
GTK Theme Manager: lxappearance (part of lxde)
Task Manager: lxtask (part of lxde)
File Manager: thunar (what xfce uses)
Terminal Emulator: terminal (another xfce app)
Video Player: totem-xine (has gnome deps but still very small)
Music Player: mpd (music server daemon)
MPD Frontend: sonata (gui that connects to mpd)

 

I find it odd that you use Arch and want a lean system but you have Firefox as your web browser. Google Chrome/Opera/Epiphany/Midori are all leaner than FF and just about the same speed. Google Chrome is even faster than Firefox.

 

Well, I cannot browse without my firefox extensions. Plus I'm a kind of guy who likes to play around with the interface, and I love how you can move things around in firefox. I've tried the other browsers you mentioned, and they just don't cut it for me.

When I'm in the mood, I use lynx like a BA.

 

Google chrome is a spy....

*puts back on tin foil hat and walks away*

 

So that's why it's open source? So they can spy on us without us knowing? Genius!

 

(Linux Mint) I use Opera mainly, it's by far my favourite browser, but we have to face facts: it isn't supported the same way Firefox is. These days, on perhaps one in every fifteen or twenty sites I visit with Opera, I have some problem and end up having to copy & paste the URL into Firefox. Online banking in particular often plays up in Opera.

Firefox seems to have as much support as MSIE.

 

Well yeah, Google Chrome has more browser usage than Opera and it just came out. I feel Chrome is gonna replace/dominate Firefox in the market which is great. Another open source software breaking the mold and opening up the web more. Once HTML 5 gets standardized we'll see Youtube and other google apps in HTML 5 instead of Flash and since chrome is so fast the web will generally speed up on sites that use html 5 instead of flash. The future looks good to me...

 

Heh. I feel the same way. FoxMarks and LastPass FTW! I'm not sure if I would feel as comfortable using the same sort of apps in Chrome with Google's business model.

 

Interesting. I had, in fact, considered Arch, as I've been a fan of Gentoo, and Arch seems to take a similar approach. The primary factors that make me hesitant are, 1) people tend to warn newer users away from it (I've been knee-deep in Gentoo often enough though that I think I could manage), and 2) I would face the same problem I do any time I tackle a distro from the ground up - once the OS is installed and I start trying to install additional components I need, I often end up through trial and error installing several items I *thought* would serve my purposes, but weren't actually related to what I needed, often in the process presenting me with frequent messages such as:

Module blah, blah, blah relies on dependency blah, blah, blah which was not found blah, blah, blah...

That usually makes my head hurt, as it just launches me into yet more trial and error downloading. I should mention that I'm a bit OCD, and having a bunch of extra stuff installed (much of it likely installed unsuccessfully when all is said and done) by the time I am actually able to, for instance, get my 3D graphics subsystem configured and running correctly just bugs the crap outta me.

 

@archer7 - Also, what are your thoughts on the Pacman package manager? How does it stack up against portage and the various RPM-based package managers? I really like portage in Gentoo.

 

Calvin, I note you have Google Advocate as your user title. Does that mean you work for Google, or simply that you're a fan/admirer of theirs?

In any event, my main concern about Google Chrome would be what is Google's end, i.e. what's this open source project all about for them, what do they get out of it? This thread was the first I heard of Google Chrome you see, so I don't know what the deal is. Why is a corporation involving itself with an open source development?

 

I am just a Google fan, would love to work there though. I'm not sure what they get out of it, but they are all for open standards. They promote HTML 5 and such, and if Google Chrome can't be trusted then I'll use Chromium. =P

 

I have to say, though. That if your system is decent enough, you won't really notice *THAT* much of a difference from a super-lean installation compared to a normal one. There's only so much speed you can get. And most of the time the system is waiting for user input, anyway.

Pacman is absolutely wonderful. Combined with yaourt, installing and cleaning up redundant dependencies are just a breeze.

Code:

pacman -Rs $(pacman -Qtdq)

and the redundant dependancies are gone. But takes away stuff like bzr or git, so I don't really do it.

Yaourt searches pacman, and the AUR for the packages, and just installs automatically. Removing a file takes away the dependancies as well, so it's very clean.

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pacman

 

Well, all I know is that I've run Ubuntu before, for example, and the boot-up process took much longer on my modern machine that I thought it should. Just to get to the login dialog, there was an awful lot going on that I was certain wasn't all necessary for my needs.

Got Arch set up last night, and I'm now working on getting Fluxbox installed and the ATI drivers for my Mobility 3650, then I'll go from there.

 

Arch is great. It's very lean without going all spartan-like like Gentoo.

Ubuntu Jaunty I hear has been sped up a LOT

 

Ubuntu has gone through quite a bit of change... I can boot in approx. 20 seconds.

If you don't know a whole lot about linux then ubuntu is the way to go. If you are a power user however, then get arch.... and I would recommend finding a custom kernel and compiling it yourself.... there can be quite the performance boost!

 

I really like my Debian x64 install on my T61p. All my hardware works and I did a minimal install and am installing things as needed. After playing with a lot of distros and wanting something lean but full featured, I think Debian is the best.

 

I like google chrome and think it's great and all but you make it sound like the second coming of christ.

It's good, and I've yet to see a browser handle tabs as well as Chrome does. The way they do it is amazing, the way you can move them around so easily, pull them out into their own window, and put them back so fluidly.

However FireFox is more or less the same speed on my computer (specs in sig). If Chrome is faster it's negligible. As far as Chrome tracking what you do, so does every other google app and most email and search engines.

I like my browsers for different reasons and use most major ones - FF, Chrome, and Opera.

Did we get off topic?

 

Not really, I just appreciate that Google Chrome is such a refreshing update. It has insane amounts of support for HTML 5 (while other browsers lag behind) and it's got a couple of new concepts that I love. Private mode is a feature not a privilege which means I can open tabs and windows in private. The status bar isn't in the way unless I need it, tabs take up less space and have evolved into something slightly different than what Opera came out with yeeaaarrrsss ago. It may not have themes and extensions but it really doesn't need them. I think I'll stay stock with Chrome.

 

*resurrection* The extensions are piling up for Chrome....no reason to use FF anymore. Still gotta love Mozilla for fighting the good fight.....

Lean linux install? Try Unity Linux...this is a great, and little talked about LXDE PCLOS/Mandriva based distro...I like it so far and thinking about taking it to the hard drive.

 

I still use Chrome as my default browser. Still loving it. Firefox is good too, and they're coming out with a lot of cool stuff, but I'm too happy with Chrome to think about using Firefox. There's one site that I used to log into Firefox to use, but after 3.5 it stopped working and now I use IE8 to view it. I keep Firefox around as a backup and for my mom to use but I rarely ever touch it.

 

I'm curious whether this browser will allow adding a serious add blocker in the future.
Google lives because of ads, are they really going to provide you with a means to kill their source of income?
Don't think so...
Google browser & efficient adblocking=> not going to happen.
The same with NoScript. Will Google allow the user to make up his own mind on what he can block and what not?
It doesn't seem like it link.

 

Hi,
i suppose you'd like to achieve things like faster booting times and longer battery life on laptop (who wouldn't?) .
All i'm gonna say is my opinion, so some might not agree, or might correct me.

# for me linux = linux kernel, rest is the 'soup' around, linux kernel is about drivers and settings that enable your HW to work, so if you ask for recommendation of linux distro, than i can't say which one is better or worse - because kernel is same in them all, so its only up to you to find distribution which meets your req. on this bases:
- which kernel version it installs by default? -very important (it means if your HW work 'out of box' or not)
- packaging system - very important
- community, guides, howtos - important
- which desktop environment does it use by default? - not so important - can be easily changed

# if you need to have 'lean' linux, i'd suggest you to build your own kernel from source - it's pretty easy, since there is lots of guides for each distribution (either you get distro independent source from www.kernel.org and compile it for your hw, or (if your distro support your hw) i'd download your distro-related kernel source and recompiled it to get rid off unnecessary things (tons of drivers you don't need) make this way your kenel smaller => faster ...

# after successful custom kernel build next, you need to switch off some unnecessary services that are e.g. server targeted and you don't need them on notebook - depends on which runlevelel you run your laptop e.g. in my case (fedora, centos, rhel):
chkconfig --list all (it lists all my services in current runlevel and its state - on/off), or i can go to /etc/init.d/rcx.d (x=runlevel) and find out startup scripts there. I suggest you find out which script does what and turn off any unnecessary ...

# install 'lean' desktop - like xfce (instead of gnome or kde)

# install laptop-mode tools (if available for your desktop)

some links i use:
http://kernel.xc.net/ (here to check if the desired kernel has support for my hw)

http://samwel.tk/laptop_mode/ (here laptop-mode tools - power related things)

http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/ (here to check if other ppl successfully installed particular distro on my ntb)

gl&hf

p.s. if you will recompile your own kernel, dont miss to check out difference between kernel module drivers x kernel built-in drivers and its impact on creating initial ramdisk