Windows vs Linux?

So, I'm still pending my clicking the "Order" button for my Clevo M570RU (I finally got enough money for it! ). Reason is that it ends up being $90 more expensive if I order Windows XP on it, $90 that could very well have been saved. I'm wondering if there's a good Linux out there which is VERY user-friendly, which has support for programs which are Windows-like (Open Office, etc)?

So, to sum it up:

1) I'm looking for a Linux OS which is user-friendly and good for first-timers.
2) Is there a good Windows "emulator" which runs Windows games?
3) Should I just scrap the Linux idea completely if I want to play some games?
4) Will the hassle I'll be causing myself by using Linux until Vista SP1 comes out be worth the $90?


Thanks in advance.


PS
I plan to play some older games. The Suffering TDB, Scrapland, Freedom Fighters, and a bunch of DX8 games I missed out on.

 

1. Ubuntu is the best for people new to Linux. It is very user friendly and has great support over the forums.
2. Wine (Wine is not an emulator) is the best (free) choice for trying to get games to work. It is not perfect and won't be anytime soon. It simulates the windows architecture to allow programs to be installed and runs them through a windows like API ( I can't explain it too well sorry)
3. Most likely you will not get most games to work on Linux. I love Ubuntu but it will not be my only OS because of this reason. Open GL, Direct X 8+, etc have problems running even through Wine. You could try Cedega but don't be fooled by their site. They have good but not perfect results running games and last I checked, it was a subscription service.
4. If you have never used Linux before and depending how computer literate you are, it could be too big of a hassle. By all means dual boot with whatever you get and try out linux while having windows to fall back to.

From what I heard, Vista SP1 is going to be released around Christmas 07, about 5 months away. Another option is to keep saving til then and the price of the notebook will be lower then and you can get Vista w/SP1.

 

Linux is obviously free; Windows is far from it. Slackware is a nice, user-friendly distro but I'm not sure about the games on it.

Kubuntu is basically Ubuntu with a few added features so could be nicer.

But as SilentHeero said, if you've never used Linux before and you intend to use it as a primary operating system it could be a bit of a hassle/waste of time.

Congratulations on the good purchase choice! I've got the M570U (the old one) and have never regretted it one bit! You'll like it.

 

Ubuntu and Kubuntu is the same operating system. The only difference is the desktop environment: Ubuntu is GNOME based and Kubuntu is KDE based.

 

Best advice for you is to dual boot linux and windows if you want linux but you want to play games as well..since linux isn't going to run most games.

 

Yeah, it's subscription, but free subscription. Sign up for their e-letter and download the program. At least, that's what I understand. EDIT: Nevermind. Hafta pay. >=(

I'm really broken. I don't know if I want to buy the notebook now, or get it a bit later. I sure could use it now, seeing as I have OLD computers around here. If the price drops until October, how much would it drop by? $50-100? If so, I'll still go for it now. If it'll drop $100+ I'll wait.

Kubuntu vs SlackWare....? SlackWare looks like Mac OS X. I'll try it out, thanks for the ref


EDIT: Or does SW look like Mac only because of some custom modifications?

 

Instead of even dual booting linux and windows which might not be good in the long run if you plan to take your linux partition out and you have an empty partition then why arent more people using virtual pcs such as microsofts free one or vmware? ive used them before and they are very useful

 

Well, this thread was originally supposed to be about saving money by going Penguin with Clevo. Guess not

Havock: I don't plan to take out my Linux. I plan to make a full switch to Linux as soon as I learn enough about it. Also, what are virtual PCs? I've never heard of vmware. EDIT: VMware looks interesting, albeit untrustworthy... :\

 

Havock, the OP isn't thinking about dual booting (at least, not from the initial post), he's thinking about whether he could save $90 and go without Windows.

Romanian, In terms of getting Windows games to run in Linux, both Wine and Cedega have compatibility databases for running programs/games, you may want to check out the specific games you want to play in those.
Wine: http://appdb.winehq.org/
Cedega: http://games.cedega.com/gamesdb/

Crossover is yet another Wine fork that you could check out. Their compatibility database can be found here: http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/

Gaming aside however, what you could do, since you have some older computers lying around, why don't you try various flavors of Linux on those and see how you like it before making your final decision? Since Linux generally runs better on older hardware than Windows does, you may decide you don't even need a new computer.

I recommend Ubuntu as a good way to get your foot in the door in the Linux world. Personally, I moved away from it after a while (6 months about), but I know a lot of long time Linux users that swear by it. So, even though I used it to get into Linux, it is not JUST a beginner's distro.

One thing to note though, Linux is NOT a free Windows alternative, it is different operating system all together. If you expect it to just be a way of getting out of paying for Windows, you will be sorely disappointed. If you keep an open mind and see it for what it is, you'll have a much better time with it.

 

On Virtual Machines, personally, I think they're great. You can try out software and configurations without messing up your own system. I generally use it for doing one of two things, 1) I keep a Windows VM around to run any Windows only apps I need for class (rare situation), and 2) I use them to store a virus infected Windows installation to use as a training tool when teaching people to clean viruses.

Just keep in mind that there's usually a pretty big performance hit using a virtual machine. Newer processors (from late Pentium D's) supposedly have built in virtualization technology that can bring Virtual Machines to near native speeds, but I've never used a VM in a machine that new.

As far as being "untrustworthy", I've found it to be far from that, I've personally have had no problems with VMWare products.

 

A virtual machine is where one operating system exists within another operating system as a process; the guest OS (running as a process) is essentially tricked into believing that it has direct access to the computer hardware, when in fact it is the host OS handling requests for it.

With virtual technology, you could run XP in a window while running Linux. This is useful if you need certain applications that are exclusive to one operating system.

The downsides of virtualization are twofold; one, you must have the combined RAM requirements of both operating systems. For example, to run XP within Vista you would ideally have 2GB for Vista plus 512MB-1GB for XP.

Second, virtual machines presently cannot run 3D applications like games and stuff, so forget running games on a virtualized XP installation in Ubuntu. You can run almost anything else within a guest OS as long as it doesn't need direct access to the hardware.

 

MS Virtual PC completely SUCKS when it comes to most Linux distro's including Ubuntu.

The purpose (at least for me) of Linux(Ubuntu) is to get away from a Windows environment. I don't want to boot up Windows just to use Linux. I rather have windows and Linux on separate partitions.

I do run Windows on VMWare when booted on Linux, but only because I have to in order to use certain programs like ActiveSync.

Not that I'm running away from Windows, but I shouldn't have to eat Bananas to taste Oranges and Vice Versa. (bad metaphor but my mind went blank LOL)

 

I am really not wanting to get a dated OS for $90. I'll get Vista as soon as SP1 comes out, but until then, would VMWare fulfill my needs of school, or is it too slow? Also, do I need to have the actual OS on my computer to use it with VMWare?

 

Slackware is not user friendly its developer friendly due to it not having any package manager and i dont think hes looking to compile every package himself if its his first time trying linux and getting games to work in it through wine would not be easy

Kubuntu does not have more features then Ubuntu it simply uses another Desktop manager called KDE instead of ubuntus gnome. So there isnt added features just the same features under a different name and some of ubuntus features missing like the restricted drivers manager which the OP will probably need i say go Ubuntu

 

Yes, you need the actual OS to use VMware.

If you are in college, check with your school to see if they give out free software. My school (Pitt) gives out ton of free (or heavily discounted) software. I got Vista, XP, Office 2007, OS X and Office2004Mac for free. This is more common at large state schools.

 

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/32967/113/

 

Thats a great article!

 

IMO the money saved by going OSS isn't a good enough reason by itself to switch -- for example Openoffice.org works on Windows. There are free AV software, etc. Especially since 99.99% of the time people have already paid an OS license to Microsoft anyway (how many people who are interested in learning about Linux are going to fight to get their MS tax rebate?). So for desktops, that is right out.

Improved security... maybe. Linux users tend to know a bit more about computing that most users at large, so I suspect they'd be less liable to keep their windows machine insecure anyway.

Performance... now were're getting somewhere. With Linux you have a lot more control than Windows. As a result, it's a lot easier to strip things down to only what you want.

The main reason I swtich... well.... I was one of those guys who had Windows 95/98 crash on me one too many times. After that, Windows became little more that a gaming platform and something for the few apps I don't have equiv programs on Linux.

What I appreciated the most was that when I had a problem I could always find enough diagnostic information to FIX the problem. With Windows it seems people just shrug and reboot (or reinstall).

Regarding VMWare.... I believe most Vendors claim that the hit from using Virtual Machines is 10% or less, which isn't bad. The biggest pain for me is switching between the Windows VM and the host OS due to Disk I/O bottlenecks. But I recently switched to a 7200 RPM drive and moved Windows to the back of the drive instead of the front which actually seems to help considerably.

Another thing to consider about VM's and safety, some have a "snapshot" option where you can take a snapshot of an OS while it's running, perform some operation and if you don't like the results, you roll it back. Very handy feature. Also backups are easy... just copy the VM and your done.

 

Your first statement is debatable. Windows XP is hardly a dated OS; when new technology comes out, street-wise buyers always purchase the second newest technology because it has been throughly tested for the real world.

In other words, XP is more mature than Vista. It has had almost all of it's reported problems and security holes patched, unlike Vista. On top of that, most people are hard-put to give reasons why one should pay more money for Vista when Vista offers nothing new. XP will be able to play upcoming games like Crysis, and you can be sure that it'll have all the functionality of Vista without all the security updates and fixes. Technical differences aside, to the majority of users (including myself) Vista is merely XP with breast implants.

I would recommend sticking with XP if you want Windows. If you want Vista, then I would recommend with even greater insistence that you wait for Vista SP1; at least then you will have a more dependable OS.

 

I use that feature often for virus cleaning demonstration/training. I infect a Windows VM, demonstrate, or have someone else perform the cleaning, then restore the snapshot and let someone else have a try.

Also, by copying the VM I can let people try it on more than one computer at a time.

 

Ubuntu is a great distribution, there is no doubt. However, it is not as easy as some others to install. For instance, you need Automatix to get some things working. One alternative is Linux Mint, which is basically Ubuntu made even easier to install. For instance, you an configure the desktop effects on Mint.

...and I want to "plug" once again Sabayon. The new Sabayon coming out in a couple of days will offer package selection (I think), will have the newest kernel and will have the newest desktop effects (compiz and beryl reunited!). Coupled with its exceptional hardware recognition it is a distro to seriously consider.

That being said, Ubuntu/Mint are Debian (which means apt-get, Synaptics, etc...) for package management, and that is probably a bit easier than Sabayon's Gentoo portage system--for newbies anyway.

Just my 2 cents

 

Automatrix is overkill IMO. I never needed it for anything I couldn't get via terminal or source.

I only used it once or twice because everyone was talking about it and I wanted to see what the fuss was about. Automatrix is also more prone to messing up your system(so they say in the feisty starter guide)

 

Yes, XP is more mature, but is missing some of the features that further OSs will have. If you look at it from the point of view that XP came out in what, 2002? and that Vista came out Q1 2007, and then you bring into account Vienna coming 2009, XP seems quite dated.

I had already planned on using Linux until SP1 for Vista. I said that in my first post or somewhere. I won't be playing anything hardcore when school starts; I'll be hard on the books. I'll get Vista the week before winter break, buy CoD4, play that over winter break, and then hopefully my grades will be high enough so that I won't have to break a sweat to get an A and I can just play DX10 games



Alright, so I've been looking at Linuxes. I downloaded the Ubuntu ISO, and am going to install it on my upstairs computer (is there any way to keep Windows OS and install Linux on it, without causing myself too much trouble? ). How do I go by using the ISO? Burn it onto a CD and just put it into the drive?

EDIT: I'll be getting Xubuntu to try out on my old system. Do I get the Desktop CD (I think no), Alternate Install CD, or something else? I'll be partitioning my hard drive. (And when I partition it, do I need to format it? Or can I keep all of my files?)

 

I think that because of looks and age, XP seems outdated. But look more closely; compile a mental list of the things that only Vista can do (that you need as a user) and type them out for me. It's not a challenge, just a request that might show you whether you truly need Vista.

 

Go with Ubuntu... trust me, if my wife has been able to use it for the last 6 months - ANYONE CAN!!!

 

bc135: I honestly have no idea; I've only used 95, 98, and XP in my life.

EP2007, right now I'm running Ubuntu on my big computer. Nibbles is so fun!


The only thing that I'm afraid to do is install definitively. When I click "Next, next, next" until the part where it says Select Hard Drive, all goes well. Then, when I select my 80GB HDD, something scares me. It doesn't allow me to select percentage of partition. I'm afraid that if I just go ahead and install, something'll screw up and I'll lose XP. Help?

 

I'm not sure of specific steps, but I've installed Ubuntu on both my wife's computer and my own and I also have plans to install it on my Inspiron 1520 (when it get's here!).

I have Windows XP on both desktop computers and dual boot works like a charm.

There are lots of tips on the ubuntu forums... that would be the best place to start.

 

I'd suggest anyone new to linux NOT go with Ubuntu, but something more like SimplyMEPIS that uses more stable builds for it's applications, and focuses more on only using one tool per task, so the user isn't overwhelmed with the choices.

 

Sabayon is definitely worth checking. It's a nice looking distribution, fast and well documented.

 

We're in the same boat then. Personally I found that Vista's interface had been completely rearranged for no apparent reason; things have been moved, renamed or replaced for no reason other than to make Vista seem new due to it's difference. The features are lackluster and not very reliable (people have reported that the Dsik Cleanup utility will delete the Windows directory), many of the features are complete disasters. My advice is to dual-boot XP and Ubuntu (or whatever distro you favour)

 

Well, there should be an option that says something like "Use free space from the windows partition" or something along those lines. I'm dualbooting winXP and ubuntu 7.04 and that's what I did. There was absolutely no need to manually partition the harddrive.

I am also using VirtualBox to emulate a windowsXP guest on my linux host. I think it's wonderful that I don't need to restart everytime I have to run some windows-only applications. If you're really knowledgeable I'm sure you can even set up a dual-screen configuration so that one screen is windows and the other is linux! But for that please google around, 'cause I've only been using ubuntu for like 2 weeks.