turbo memory in linux?

I am about to order the X61s with turbo memory.
I will be running Ubuntu and use vmware to run Vista.
Do you guys think the turbo memory will help the Ubuntu? what about the vmware Vista?


ThinkPad X61s - 1 Year Depot Warranty
Edit
6/13/2007** $1,357.55 $1,357.55

12.1" UltraLight XGA TFT and Intel� Core? 2 Duo L7500 LV (1.6GHz, 4MB L2, 800MHz FSB), 2x3 UltraConnect II antenna[1]
Genuine Windows Vista Home Basic[12]
1 GB PC2-5300 DDR2 SDRAM 667MHz SODIMM Memory (1 DIMM)[8]
TrackPoint
80GB Hard Disk Drive, 5400rpm Serial ATA (2.5")[4]
Intel Wireless WiFi Link 4965AGN[10]
ThinkPad X60s Series 8 cell Slim Line Battery
7669: Express - 1 Year Depot Warranty[7]

 

I have no clue if the x64 kernel has been adjusted to take advantage of Santa Rosa's new features, such as Robson (TurboMemory). Hopefully ftw and Pita can shed some light on this matter - I am curious about this as well.

 

Couldn't you just mount the swap to the turbo memory?

 

Does it appear as a 'partition?'

 

Well, it may just appear as removable storage.

 

Since it is Intel technology, I'm sure there will soon be support if their isn't already. They are pretty good about open source support.

 

alright I ordered it with turbo memory. I guess Ubuntu will support it in a year ? The estimated shipping date is 19th. I sure will ask many linux questions like setting up fingerprint reader and basic stuff.

7669CT CONFIGURED SYSTEM
06/19/07 $1,357.55 $1,357.55
7669CTO CTO THINKPAD X61S-3 YDW
42X0100 ** SBB 12.1"ULTRALIGHT L7500_1.6G
42V8012 SBB MS WIN VISTA HOME BASIC
42X0367 SBB MSWINVISHOMB32 US ENGLISH
41W2060 VBB 1GB PC2-5300 667MHZ 1DIMM
42X0133 SBB KEYBOARD US ENGLISH
42X0754 SBB TRACKPOINT W/FINGERPR.READ
42V9130 SBB 80GB HDD,5400RPM ATA 2.5"
42V8193 SBB INTEL TURBO MEMORY 1GB
62P6054 VBB INTEGR.BLUETOOTH PAN
41W1501 SBB INTELPRO/WL3945ABGUSCNLAAP
41W1830 SBB 8CELL LI-ION BATTERY 2.6AH
41W1787 SBB CPK NORTH AMERICA
27R1769 SBB PSTN CABLE
42X0202 SBB LANG.PACK_US ENGLISH
41W1910 SBB PACKAGING
42V8300 SBB 1GB PC2-5300 DDR2 667MHZ
42X1466 SBB CLEAR PLATE X61,WLAN BT
42V9665 SBB FCC, LABEL
42X0412 SBB GEO LBL US,WLAN BT
41W1982 SBB LOGO PLATE
42X0948 SBB MECH MISC PARTS
42V7973 SBB MS LABEL (VISTA BASIC)
42T7135 SBB INTEL LABEL CORE-2
42X1233 SBB NEWINTELLAB_DUALCORE/CEDUO
42X1461 SBB WLAN,MISC PARTS
42X0402 SBB MT 7669 SYSTEM LABEL

06/19/07

 

I doubt the turbo memory will work with Linux right now, as it's designed to work specifically with Vista's flash memory management (ReadyBoost and boot). Support will probably be added to the kernel at some point down the line. And if it doesn't work in Ubuntu, it won't work in Vista through VMware since the hardware used in the guest is tied to the host (i.e. network won't work in the guess unless it works in the host). You should also be concerned about your wi-fi card, as I don't think there are any native Linux drivers for the Intel 4965 yet. Although, it appears in your second post that you picked the 3945?

Keep in mind as well that you will likely need more than 1GB of RAM if you're wanting to run Vista in a VM. Vista likes 2GB all by itself, so 1GB shared is going to be pretty much impossible to work with.

 

I'd have upgraded the RAM if I were you, especially if you're gonna run Vista in a VM. Hopefully it's a single DIMM in there, and you can just throw in a second one. I'd bet that we could get Ubuntu to work with the flash drive there. It's even better, because it is certain it won't be removed, so you could just put that as your primary swap partition, and then maybe another one if you decided it was necessary. ReadyBoost under Windows is set up so it's mirrored to the pagefile on the hard drive... you wouldn't have to worry about that under Linux if it's an internal memory chip.

 

Yea, I am going to have 3 GB. Thats why i ordered 1 DIMM. I also changed the WiFI to the "INTELPRO/WL3945ABGUSCNLAAP" because it is cheaper and I am sure it will work in Ubuntu.

I plan to install 64 bit Ubuntu and vmware Vista home basic.

 

I've seen reports that it is possible to use ndiswrapper for that wi-fi chipset. Not the best thing, I admit.

 

That's why I said native drivers. Ndiswrapper is almost always an options, but it's never the best one and of course experiences slower performance than native drivers. But the OP went with the 3945, so he's all set anyway.

 

Intel's definitely working on native 4965 drivers. The last updates they made to the drivers on their website showed that they were modifying the code to support the 4965.

http://intellinuxwireless.org/

Another part of their website claims that they're planning to have functional native Linux drivers during "Q2 2007."

I'm planning to get a new system myself in the next two months or so. I'm planning to get a 4965. I too have been wondering about the turbo memory maybe for /boot and other files, hoping to speed up my boot time, especially since 1- I'm not planning to use Vista much, and 2- I hear that the ReadyBoost doesn't really improve performance in Vista anyway, so if it's read like a USB disk, then I'll make use of it in other ways.

- Trip

 

can i still use SD card to use ready boot if I have turbo memory? like a double thing?

 

I believe so. Someone else should confirm that though; don't take my word for it.

- Trip

 

actually, i have another question on ready boost. I used a 2GB SD card. However, it does not show memory increased in Windows Task manager.

 

Read my previous post in this thread. It just provides a fast access mirror of the swap file, it doesn't actually add RAM. You won't see any changes in task manager or otherwise, it'll just mean that when you're paging data out to disk, you won't get hit as hard as you normally would.

 

Simply, yes. I can't see any reason why Robson would interfere with ReadyBoost. But Pita brings up a good point about the necessity of it.

 

Doesn't Turbo Memory, like flash memory, have a limited number of write cycles before it croaks? If so, then using it as swap seems like a horrible idea. Good place for boot files though.

 

Turbo Memory is flash memory so yes, it has a limited number of cycles. The people who are trying to sell us the idea however assure us that a Turbo Memory module should last for several years (at least 5, if I remember well).

Regarding booting, the question is: why boot instead of suspending to ram? Yes while the system is suspended to ram, power is used. But I found it to be so minimal in practice that it is not worth worrying about.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory#Limitations

Read that It has a limited number of write cycles, but so does every storage device, and with current flash technology, it's not really an issue.

 

But write cycles are what counts, not years. Sure it should last 5 years if you stick a few read-only boot files on it. Swap might re-write a certain block numerous times per hour.

Linux's support for suspend-to-RAM doesn't seem to be fully stable yet. I've only tried it a few times; sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Maybe in a couple years ...

 

Ok, let me spell it out for you: the engineers at Intel used statistics to estimate how much a normal user would cause the computer to write to the Turbo Memory module. Based on those estimates they said it should last at least 5 years. YMMV.

No one ever implied that for *everybody* in the world, no matter *how* they use their computer, their little Turbo Memory module would work for 5 years to the day *for sure*. Of course usage matters but then again that goes for just about every piece of hardware. There's a difference between the wear and tear a casual user who uses a computer a max of 3 hours a day will cause vs someone who has to run particle physics simulations overnight or overlocks his machine or anything that really stresses the machine. It seems to me so darn obvious that it need not be mentioned.

Works for me.

 

modern flash memory with controllers usually don't work that way. It would even out the write so even you are rewriting the same logical block, it is written to a different physical location every time.

Which means a large size flash memory(which has a reasonable free space) can have a larger aggregate write-cycle resulting in even longer life than HD which is usually size independent in terms of wear and tear.

In fact, swap usage is actually a perfect match for this behaviour where each block has short life time.

 

Did any of you read that link I posted? Write cycles are pretty much a non-issue. Stop arguing about it. It's not a valid point to discuss, there are plenty of write cycles with load balancing and improved technology to last a constantly-written-to modern flash disk for approximately 50 years (not a typo, I didn't mean five, I meant fifty). Move on to something else.

 

Exactly what I was thinking.

Flash memory is a lot based on the quality used and the technologies as well. RAM is solid state memory, just as flash-based SSDs and turbo memory are, but it lasts through tons of r/w cycles. I'm not saying that Turbo Memory is on the same level as RAM, but I am saying that given the technologies and methods/materials used today, r/w cycles really shouldn't be an issue for flash-based memory at all.

 

I am just curious... any linux user order turbo memory? or my decision was stupid...

 

When Toshiba updates their product line in the next few weeks, I plan to order one. If it comes with Turbo Memory, I'm planning to get some to play with. See if I can find something useful for it to do.

- Trip

 

The reality is that everything dies at some point. But the IMPORTANT thing is that the likelihood of you keeping a notebook beyond the point when TurboMemory croaks is VERY minimal, in fact, nearly impossible, since your mobo is bound to fizzle out before that time.

 

Interesting, you learn stuff every day. I thought the kernel and filesystem developers were tackling the issue of rotating the physical blocks written to, with LogFS. Didn't know that was taken care of in the hardware controller itself. Cool. In that light maybe swap is a reasonable application.

Personally though, I'd probably put some of the biggies from /lib and /usr/lib into it -- maybe glibc, Qt, etc.

 

The beauty of swap is that your OS knows much better than you do what memory blocks are best placed into temporary storage on disk Usually things like the cache of the text file you opened 10 minutes ago and so on. The big things like Qt, glibc, those will almost certainly always be in main memory because most programs use them nearly constantly.

Now, if you put things like Qt, glibc, the kernel, etc. on a flash partition for booting, they would all start up much faster. But that's a completely different issue.

 

ummm..... so swap > ready boost?
or cannot compare?

 

Readyboost is an addition to swap in Windows Vista that makes swapping faster. It's not different, it's an acceleration technology, in theory.

 

Swapping to flash is better than swapping to disk but the best thing is not to swap. So if you have 1GB and you find that you swap an extra 1GB to disk, add 1GB of RAM and you won't swap.

 

A bit of an old thread but I ordered my T61P with Turbo Memory and will only be using linux. I figured that whether or not it's supported right now, I'll be able to use it in the future. For me my laptops must last 4 years, so divide the extra $50 over four years and that's nothing. If it provides me with any improved efficiency, fun tweaking, or speed then it'll be worth it.

 

Please do let us know what you find about Turbo Memory support in Linux.

 

So what do you think? Should I install Linux on my new t61 with turbo memory? I don't want to wreck my first Thinkpad but on the other hand I hate Windows!

 

It's very hard for software to wreck hardware. Try it and see. You can always go back to Windows if it doesn't work. I'd recommend making sure you have recovery disks, and they don't depend on a "hidden" partition of the driver or anything first, though.

 

Go ahead-- if it's your first time installing linux I'll have to recommend Ubuntu. But the worst that will happen is the turbo memory won't be recognized or used at all. If my freaking t61p were here, I'd be telling you whether or not it actually will work- but that's not the issue at hand.

If you do get the time to install linux on your machine- let us know if the turbo memory shows up in your partition manager. If it does-- make sure you create that as your swap partition. Then anytime you go over your ram, you'll be swapping from a theoretically faster drive.

The next step is to have the turbo memory act as your /boot partition as well. This should greatly decrease boot times.

Anyways all this is mere pseudo code until I get my hands on my phantom laptop with turbo memory.

 

lol make sure lenovo actually got u turbo memory ...
because they claim I did not order it -_- which I am 100% sure I did. oh well, i will install myself later on

 

No, it won't. /boot only holds the kernel image and is only a few megabytes so it will only save a second or two at most. Putting /usr/lib64 or parts of it on Flash, however...

 

How is the Turbo memory seen and accessed under Vista? Like a normal AHCI blockdevice? If it is, it should be easy to use it under Linux. Does it support booting or is it dependant on the Vista kernel?

Does anyone own a turbo memory equipped laptop with Linux? Please post lspci -vv and dmesg in this forum.

To coolest thing would be Debian with XFCE4 + everything else i need in the turbo memory and ~ on a SD or MS card.

 

Usually I'd make fun of a statement like that. But I'll let you know when or if I ever get my t61p.

 

Got my IFL90 now, and the Robson card is seen as a unknown PCI memory controller. It's not bootable. Guess i have to wait around for a driver.

And Snype, why would you make fun of that? This is exactly what makes Linux so danm cool.

 

I can't say I'm surprised.

 

Is your kernel complied for MTD support?

 

Yes, but it´s not possible to use it with the slram driver. It only has a 1k memory region at 0xF8100000. Could any of the other MD drivers be a possibility?

 

How about ask Intel?