*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

Normal idle temp with my lowest multi 45x. Ambient around 20C. Idle temp can be up to 2-3C colder than ambient temp on some cores, LOL


Web surf after Windoze X Crap maintenance. I hate this feature, LOL

 

Battle of the Ice People, hehehe. I'll show you my arctic temps soon bro!

 

I noticed yesterday that many 17" Eurocoms offered a 4K screen with 100% Adobe RGB gamut. Too bad it's not available in 15.6".

 

Stay Inside, home to your dear wife... Not out in the garage and ÷. This is cheating And your wife could be upset. You could being sick of the cold, LOL

 

Whoa!!! So Close to 19K!!!
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/11359804

23k+ Graphics Score, 15.5k+ Physics Score and Combined 9K+

 

Great score! Almost double a "Gaming Laptop".

 

No the mounting setup is exactly the same as the stock display. The way the MSI laptop is setup is the bottom mount and screw are used, the top mounts aren't used and rather the mount slides under prongs that hold it in place.

It was fairly easy to remove the bezel with the plastic laptop/cellphone tool. The scraped and peeled off the black rubbery glue the best I could and reapplied a thin 2mm strip of the double sided tape around the bezel. The bezel snapped right back into place and looks perfect and fits just as tight with zero gapping.

The screen is very bright. Brighter than the stock LG screen and brightness is evenly distributed IMO. Input lag and response times feel similar since the stock is IPS and this is PLS. The increased refresh rate is a great addition for FPS games which I mainly play.

Losing G-Sync does suck because the technology helps make images clearer on screen while you game because they're fully synced up. Even with the high refresh rate you're not always synced up unless you frame limit. If I'm above native refresh I use Fast sync and that helps a lot.

 

Good tips!
I did my first LM application few days ago to both the CPU and the GPU. I used Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut.
I wasn't able to delid my CPU as i didn't have a razor blade thin enough and also didn't get the Delid Die Guard on time (postponed this to March when i get back)... could be for the best.
I used toothpick to spread the LM. Used electrical tape on the GPU around the core to protect it.
"Funny"/dangerously "funny" mishap ... i did a small drop on the GPU core and the moment i started trying to spread it I accidentally did a flick with the toothpick ... the drop went flying straight to the GPU board near the VRAM chips... I froze for a second, but did not panic ... dragged the drop on top of one of the VRAM chips and carefully cleaned it up. Cleaned up the area it dropped on. But some gray stain is visible with naked eye on the VRAM chip... as you mentioned even if it is not visible with naked eye it will be visible with microscope.

Anyway i did not manage to short circuit it....
The results below. The difference between the cores stayed there ... 4-5-6-7 degrees difference between some of the cores. That is why there are two temps 40/45.

Cinebench 15
before
40/45 -- 87/94 autofan 916
39/42 -- 83/87 maxfan 923

after
30/34 -- 78/82 autofan 938
28/32 -- 76/80 maxfan 943

Firestrike
before 34/38/GPU35 -- 83/87/G59 -- maxfan -- FS scores 14850/17480/7169
after 27/30/G29 -- 76/80/G53 -- maxfan -- FS scores 14994/17594/7258
ocafter 31/35/G31 -- 86/92/G57 -- maxfan -- FS scores 16094/19785/7858 (4.7Ghz, +260/280)

 

You know, I think almost everyone finds himself in the same position the first time they go to post on NBR.

 

Yeah sorry man, seems you lucked out. (This is the sort of situation I'm trying to help others avoid when purchasing from me or using my services, there are other companies too that offer this stuff)

 

well his basement is a fridge apparently since OC 4.8Ghz is sub room temperature at 21C LOL....

how he is not dead from being frozen living in that house, I don;t know hahah (should start calling him jack frost or somethign)

 

You have a PRE-Pascal version of these laptops, it's like the predecessor from a year ago.

 

Hey guys, I am planning to delid and apply CLU sometime this week. When putting CLU on the bottom side of the IHS, do you paint the entire underside? Or do you just paint an "outline" of where the die would contact? I would expect coating the entire underside (in a thin layer of course) would yield the best results, as it would allow the heat to spread out on the IHS more evenly, but I am not experienced enough to know... This is what I mean in picture form:

Is there any real-world benefit of doing this? Or am I just asking for trouble

 

+1 for Kryonaut, I've had my laptop pasted with it for pretty much exactly a year & temps are still the same as when freshly pasted (about 2-3 degC cooler than Arctic Silver 5) - as in the best temps I've seen in my laptop (Arctic Silver 5 before).

 

Arghhh, slightly more powerful than my desktop! ;-)

 

(Apologies for 3 posts in a row, should have used multi-quote!)

Thinking about this logically and with some of my scientific background I have involved in heat transfer systems (non-electrical), I would say that the results will be the same either way you do it, with a possibility that the first method could be slightly colder (the method with less thermal paste involved). I think there's no point in lining the entire underside of the IHS, just paste the bit in contact with the core. The heat is transferring from the area described by the shape of the chip, so that's where you need the paste, heat will also radiate out sideways to some extent through the IHS, but not through the paste where it's not in contact with the chip. If anything that extra layer of paste where it does not contact the chip will act as an insulator so could potentially increase temps rather than decrease them (but only a very small effect I would imagine). Thermal paste is only there to plug air gaps as an interface between two contacting heat transfer surfaces, if two mating heat transfer surfaces were both completely flat with no micro surface imperfections then using no thermal paste would give better results than using thermal paste - it's just there to plug air gaps which are a very poor conductor of heat.

 

Liquid metal on top of die, under the IHS lid where the Die touch, the whole top of IHS (not the edges on IHS) and of course heatsink. Remember not all heatsink is perfect. You will get a better results.

 

It looks like the new Kaby Lake GT62VR is going to have a 4k IGZO 100% aRGB display option. Hopefully this means Eurocom will be able to offer that part in the Tornado F5 as well. I know the Sharp 4k panels use a different mounting bracket than the Samsung 4k panels. I have had a few friends who do photo and video editing ask about the machine, but were turned off when I told them it didn't have any wide gamut display options.

 

What you said makes a lot of sense the more I think about it. Once the temperature transfer reaches steady-state (e.g. sustained load), the difference between the two applications methods is probably negligible. In that case, less LM is probably better, to reduce the chance of run-off. Thanks!

 

I think this panel uses PWM dimming though.. Which can be irritating to people with sensitive eyes by flickering the backlit to lower brightness.. Otherwise it's a good PLS. I used that screen to replace many TN machines back in the day.

Edit: Why did you replace the factory LG anyways?

 

Hahahaha, I LOVE the cold. My close friends call me Polar Bear, due to my size and high tolerance to freezing temps. I am the man that's wearing shorts and a t-shirt in 4C weather.

Tonight when it supposedly hits -8 to -10C, I'm going to try the big 5.0 on this chip. @Papusan and I have a lot in common with those temps. This weekend I'll proceed with the delid. Hopefully I'll have my reviews done by then. I have several employees that want this machine now.

 

Here is new review of Tornado F5 with GTX 1070 and 7700K: http://www.notebookcheck.it/Recensione-breve-del-Portatile-Eurocom-Tornado-F5.189903.0.html

 

Curiosity is why I replaced the panel. I wanted to see what the PLS would overclock to, and I also wanted to get inside that bezel and figure out how it came apart. Now that I've gained access it should be much easier the next time and I found out how to easily remove it when I upgrade to my 120hz G-Sync panel. I had read about the PWM but haven't seen any of that, and it only affects people when not using MAX brightness option. I always run max brightness so not an issue at all for me. Honestly this panel is far superior IMO. The colors are excellent, the brightness is better, the white is whiter. The 95hz daily driver I'm using now is excellent and games look so much smoother. I run 95hz and then use fast-sync from the Nvidia control panel and image is super smooth. I think I could be happy with this panel, but with the 120hz G-sync option out there I can't pass it up.

 

And here is the English version of the Notebookcheck review: http://www.notebookcheck.net/Eurocom-Tornado-F5-Notebook-Review.189496.0.html

 

Yeah I'm a fan of the PLS as well, I recall it being warmer than the LG panel on the F5.. But it has been a while since i've seen one in person. It likely is more accurate of a panel out of the box. I have a Colormunkie and calibrate all my screens though so technically they should all delta very close together post calibration.

+Rep thanks for taking the screen apart so we all don't have to "wonder" what it's like!

 

So can I make a update Bios for my laptop ?

 

What he's trying to say, you have older hardware. While the 1060 GPU may fit into the computer, there are likely other limitations besides the bios keeping you from using newer GPU's. Your best bet is to go back to the reseller that you purchased the MSI 16L11 from to get any BIOS/EC. The BIOS/EC from our machines will brick your computer. Never use bios from other machines.

 

Here are some initial GTX 1080 7700K benchmarks without any overclocking - standard new KBL BIOS: http://www.eurocom.com/ec/benchmarks(384)ec

 

OMG stop if you do not know what your doing. Not kidding. Liquid paste destroys more CPU's and graphics card then anything I've seen in the last 2 years, and it's from people who are not sure what they are doing. ALWAYS from people using too much liquid paste, and then it drips and slides all over thier components when it heats up. This type of paste, is so molecularly small, it can fit into the smallest gaps, smaller then your eye can see, and short circuit things.

Your CPU has so many places that would kill it is the paste touches it, it's not even worth the risk if your not an expert. I've warned so many people not to try this, and then a few weeks later I see thier laptop with the hardware for sale "AS-IS" and then someone buys it and tries to get an RMA for the broken parts etc..

There is no way to fool a vendor that you were not using liquid thermal paste, is slightly chemically reacts with silicon and other things.

I'm not saying one day you will not be an expert, but clearly you7 can experiment first on a throw away desktop or something. If you have never applied this sort of paste - it's not for you. That question about putting it all over the underside of the IHS - I would bet a lot of money your going to kill your CPU, if not cause a fire even. This stuff is not what you think it is. It's also poisonous and can almost immediately cause memory loss with contact or ingestion.

Just for FFS if your not going to take my advice, be extremely careful, and literally use 1/10th what you thought you were going to use, until it's behavior clicks in your head like an Eureka, and you get it.

 

Think of the terminator T2000 which melts and moves all over the place...

 

I really hope Eurocom does offer the panel, as I'm currently looking to change my panel for a good color gamut one. It would be a lot easier for me if Eurocom released it for the F5.

 

You will find more if you Google http://chemistry.about.com/od/gallium/fl/How-To-Melt-Gallium-Metal-in-Your-Hand.htm Nobody says you have to eat it The substance is also found in your body, but of course in smaller quantities

 

I can tell you are very concerned about the well-being of my laptop, and I really appreciate that, truly. I do have an old practice CPU, so rest assured, when it comes to the "real deal", it won't be my first time handling LM. I read your earlier post how most Youtube guides use way too much paste, and I have taken that to heart. I definitely plan to use as little paste as humanly possible in order to make a micron thin layer. I hope to post good results soon!

 

I did a LM paste for a guy today, the delid and paste under neath went fine, but the LM was too thin to make contact on the heatsink to the GPU or the CPU. Had to switch it up to Grizzly Kryonaught instead. So, ALWAYS test/triple check everything etc... I showed my client, and let him touch and spread the LM to see how it works/functions etc, and showed him the ins and outs.

Originally he was confident in doing this himself, afterwards he simply said he's never going to touch it, as it's way to complicated or messy or troublesome compared to what its worth.

I had to clean this **** up off both heat sinks and die area's. Not an easy feast !

 

When is the F5 going to get a Series 200 Kaby Lake motherboard chipset?

Intel® 200 Series Chipsets (Kaby Lake)
http://ark.intel.com/products/series/98457/Intel-200-Series-Chipsets#@Desktop

I noticed the new "Kaby Lake" F5 still uses an old (2015) Skylake Z170 motherboard chipset.

• Chipset: High Performance Intel Z170 Express Chipset

The new Laptop CPU motherboard chipsets are the CM238 or HM175 (2017), which are still classified as "Skylake" by Intel, compared against the Z170 (2015, Skylake) / Z270 (2017, Kabylake):
http://ark.intel.com/compare/98085,98087,90591,98089

When will Eurocom release the new Z270 motherboard chipset F5 model with the full Kabylake hardware feature set?

 

What does the chipset do? Improve performance? I could probably do an easy google search for this but I think you would have more knowledge about this than I can probably find.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Not much you will miss http://www.pcworld.com/article/3154754/storage/heres-what-intels-optane-will-look-like.html + The third M.3 NVMe slot http://ark.intel.com/compare/90591,98089

 

The ark entries are notoriously limited to 1 line descriptions, with little "help" popups, so not much help there, only change showing is PCIe lanes from 20 to 24 between the Z170 and Z270, allowing for another PCIe x4 slot, and from 26 to 30 HSIO lanes.

A simple summary:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-z270-motherboard-price-list,4882.html#p1

" Intel's Z270 Chipset
With the introduction of Kaby Lake, Intel released its 200-series chipsets, offering mild improvements compared to their 100-series counterparts. The number of HSIO lanes was increased (from 20) by four (to 24) across the line, and DDR4 RAM support was extended to memory clocked at 2400MHz. Intel's 200-series chipsets also support the company's new ultra-fast Optane storage technology."

There may be other Kaby Lake CPU / chipset feature support details, "simple" googling will bring up a lot of stuff to wade through, good hunting.

Maybe the extended memory speed support from 2133mhz to 2400mhz native will help OC'ing memory faster than 3000mhz as is typical now. Same for the CPU OC'ability reported up to 5.2ghz on desktop Z270 motherboards?

Maybe someone with both a Z170 Kabylake F5 and a Z270 motherboard desktop can do some comparison maximum OC tuning and stock / OC benchmarks? Desktop vs Laptop cooling / power aside, it would be nice to see the comparison.

If any other features pop up in our reading, please post it here.

Edit: here are the Intel Series 100 and 200 PCH Chipset PDF's both have 2 documents, enjoy

Intel® 100 Series Chipset Family PCH Datasheet, Vol. 1
https://www-ssl.intel.com/content/www/us/en/chipsets/100-series-chipset-datasheet-vol-1.html

Intel® 100 Series Chipset Family PCH Datasheet, Vol. 2
https://www-ssl.intel.com/content/www/us/en/chipsets/100-series-chipset-datasheet-vol-2.html

Datasheet, Vol. 1: Intel® 200 Series Chipset Family PCH
https://www-ssl.intel.com/content/www/us/en/chipsets/200-series-chipset-pch-datasheet-vol-1.html

Intel® 200 Series Chipset Family PCH Spec Update
https://www-ssl.intel.com/content/www/us/en/chipsets/200-series-chipset-pch-spec-update.html

Note: Here's a Series 200 chipset description with some Series 100 comparison's by Tom's Hardware, some additional info in the spoiler:

Intel's 200-Series Chipsets
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-200-series-chipsets,33305.html

Spoiler

Maximum HSIO Lanes
Z270 - 30
Z170 - 26

Chipset Maximum PCI-E Lanes
Z270 - 24 PCI-E 3.0 Lanes
Z170 - 20 PCI-E 3.0 Lanes

Memory support (Channels/DIMMs Per Channel)
Z270 - DDR4 2400MHz (2/2)
Z170 - DDR4 2133MHz (2/2)

Optane requires both CPU and Chipset to be Kabylake.

" A key change inherent in the new Kaby Lake chipsets is that OEMs can now configure up to eight of the chipset’s PCI-E 3.0 lanes to a single device. Skylake chipsets were limited to just four lanes per device. It’s hard to judge what effect this will have on the motherboard market. On one hand, OEMs could enable x16/x8 multi-GPU configurations using the CPU’s 16 PCI-E lanes and an additional eight lanes from the chipset. This could ultimately make overclocking support the only reason to purchase a Z270 chipset board over a H270 motherboard.

As the DMI 3.0 connection between the CPU and chipset has less theoretical bandwidth than a PCI-E 3.0 x8 connection, however, GPUs connected in this manner could be data starved and underperform. Without testing, it’s impossible to know exactly how much the DMI 3.0 interface will bottleneck a multi-GPU setup configured in this manner. Until we test some boards that utilize this feature, we cannot be sure what kind of an impact this will have.

Although the memory controller is integrated into the CPU, it should also be noted that Intel increased the DDR4 RAM speed on Kaby Lake products to 2,400MHz across the board. DDR3L memory support is unchanged from Skylake. Kaby Lake also is not compatible with DDR3 RAM operating at 1.5V or higher, as it may damage the processor."

 

First paragraph:

"The Tornado F5 is a unique series from Eurocom as it uses an in-house chassis design not derived from an existing barebones. Nonetheless, the notebook takes several cues from both Clevo and MSI in numerous aspects as the final product has the "feel" of an MSI system whilst having the vast internal options of a Clevo system."

WTF.. Who are they trying to kid here? Not derived from any existing system? Has the feel of an MSI system? It's manufactured by MSI! Who wrote this?

 

I wen't to see @woodzstack today and we did CLU delid + Krynaut on CPU + GPU
I'm getting 55C @ Idle
Room temp = 21C

I feel like this is kinda bad, i've just foundt his image of stock setting (Stock paste) and i was getting cooler temperature, did it ever happen to anyone else before? I'm kinda confused i felt like i was gonna get much better temperature.
Under full load i'm getting a 5-10C gain but that's about it.

Stock setting + Stock paste.


And this is today with -135MV Undervolt + CLU Delid and Kryonaut on CPU/GPU

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think @Diversion was getting about the same gains under full load... not sure what to say about the idle temps though =/

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

 

The CPU utilization is not normal for idle. What is it that run in the background and eat processor cycles? And 55C@ Idle is to high even with something running in you bacground Run Cinebench R15 and put on load.

 

Alright there you go, everything closed but Thermal Throttle and HWMonitor.

-135MV underclock
Fan set to Auto in Silent Option
Room temp = 21C
CLU Delid
Kryonaut on CPU / GPU

Still so bad, is it that something went wrong with the Pasting / Deliding?

 

The Iceman @Rage Set can compare temps. Both you need same ambient and multi for the comparison. Maybe you have a not so good heatsink. Warped or uneven finish.

 

After 10 mins on max fan without touching the computer.

 

Clock down to stock 6700K speed and see if there are any 6700K you can compare the idle - load temp with in the thread. Or wait on other's 7700K results. But this does not look pretty, as you already have low 21C ambient home and max fans.

 

Found some more Kaby Lake PCH product info.
Introducing Intel Optane Memory
https://www-ssl.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/intel-optane-technology.html

The product info is over many pages, but what caught my eye for chipset support required was in the footnotes:

Product and Performance Information
...
A system that is Intel® Optane™ memory ready includes: an 7th Gen Intel® Core™ or Xeon® E3 v6 processor1, an Intel® 200 series2 or 100/C230 series3 (HM175, QM175, or CM238) chipset. M.2 type 2280-S1-B-M or 2242-S1-B-M connector on a PCH Remapped PCIe* Controller and Lanes in a x2 or x4 configuration with B-M keys that meet NVMe Spec 1.1 and System BIOS that supports the RST 15.5 driver.

1. Support limited to Intel® S-, H-, and U-series processors.
2. Only supported on 7th Gen Intel® Core™ or Xeon® E3 v6 S-series processors.
3. Only supported on 7th Gen Intel® Core™ or Xeon® E3 v6 H-series processors.

It seems odd that the desktop "K" processors aren't mentioned by Intel.

Intel Core i7-7700K review: Kaby Lake debuts for desktop
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/241950-intels-core-i7-7700k-reviewed-kaby-lake-debuts-desktop

The Z270 is called out as supporting Optane DIMM format natively, and the Asus Maximus IX Apex has a Riser card to allow M.2 direct support for better cooling (unrelated to Optane?).
https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/ROG-MAXIMUS-IX-APEX/overview/

Interesting comment:

"Don't forget Intel screwed up the TIM on the 7700k so if you want to overclock it or run it at normal temperatures you'll have to delid and relid it. The RockitCool tool is compatible and safe for it"

 

Haha, you mean "feat", you said yourself you shouldn't be eating it! ;-)

 

My laptop's GPU crashes on load. Tested in both witcher 3 and bf1.

Edit: Doing more testing, it seems like nvidia driver being a POS. GPU temperature is frighteningly high. At around 90c

 

Your CPU frequency is high for just idling at the desktop. What background processes (e.g. as seen in task manager) do you have running?