I've never played either of the games you mentioned, but I find it hard to believe the Gx60 cpu (nor the 7970m) would be responsible for 15-20fps.
When I looked at the Red Orchestra 2 site I was unable to find anywhere on there that they listed the system requirements, but the one thing I did find on the website was that it said it used the Unreal Engine 3. To my recollection that is the same engine used for Skyrim, people had no problems running Skyrim on the gx60 at good fps, and Unreal Engine 3 from what I recall reading is not a CPU dependent engine.
I went to system requirement labs and checked what it said there for the games:
Red Orchestra 2: Heroes of Stalingrad system requirements | Can I Run Red Orchestra 2: Heroes of Stalingrad
ArmA II system requirements | Can I Run ArmA II
Arma 2's CPU requirements definitely shouldn't be a problem for the a10 to handle based on the specs on that page.
As the usual question on this forum is when people report low FPS in games: What color light is active for the GPU when you are playing the game? Is it the orange light? On many peoples systems the games try to play on the integrated GPU by default instead of the dedicated GPU.
CPU and GPU utilization stats can be misleading. If you have other applications (including services) running in the background in Windows then they can be pulling from your CPU too, and just because it reports 99% that doesn't necessarily means its taxing it. It could means that the system is using it efficiently. Memory works in a similar way in Windows. Windows will (usually) try to put as much as possible in memory to make use of the memory. Many people freak out thinking Windows is wasting their memory, and that it will not be available when they need it, but that isn't true, Windows will quickly provide that memory to other applications (like games) if they request it. For many years lots of people were using (and still do) use memory optimizers to dump things from memory to the hard drive in an attempt to free up the memory, but in many cases it just slows down the system because the programs that were accessing the information in memory start pulling from the hard drive where that data was moved (with the hard drive being slower than the RAM it takes longer to access the data).
When it comes to GPU utilization people have been freaking out when they see low GPU utilization numbers because they think if the game was using the GPU efficiently it should be using 99-100% of their GPU. However sometimes the games aren't asking much of the GPU, and so the GPU doesn't provide much of its full potential to the game. Beyond that many of the GPU monitoring programs weren't designed with testing systems with both integrated and dedicated GPU in the same system. They were designed for testing single GPU equipped systems, and in some rare cases Crossfile/SLI systems, but not switchable GPU systems. (The 3d Mark benchmark program is an example of a program that doesn't handle Enduro/Optimus equipped systems correctly).
What resolution are you running the game(s) at? In game benchmark testing results have shown that 7970m and 680m GPU many times preform better, and give better results the higher the resolution and game settings are set. If you're not playing your game at your screen's native resolution and very high settings then bump them up and see if performance improves. (A few games have settings that are exceptions to this: for example Ubersampling in Witcher 2 currently doesn't work well for any modern systems regardless of what GPU and CPU they are equipped with).
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In the US similar hardware/software equipped gx60/p150em systems can have a ~$400 price difference (the gx60 in the $1200 area, and the p150em being in the $1600 area). However since your using £'s your situation is a little different. You mentioned you were thinking about waiting a couple weeks to see if prices drop, but truthfully you're probably not going to see much of a change in that time period (nothing new technology wise is scheduled to come out in the next few weeks). You should also check to see how long the free game(s) promotion you mentioned is going to go until. If you wait too long the promotion may end before you decide to buy. People often bring up the a10 vs i7 cpu debate when comparing the two systems, but if you're mainly planning to play games and do basic Windows tasks then the a10 should work fine. (Many people saying the a10 bottlenecks the system are blowing things out of proportion. Many GX60 users have reported good gaming experiences in the thread, so use the search feature at the top of the thread if there is a particular game you want to make sure preforms well on the Gx60).
As far as Windows 7 vs Windows 8 you're better off at the moment with Windows 7 as it provides better blu-ray software compatibility. If the place you're purchasing from is offering a free Windows 7 home premium to Windows 8 professional upgrade then you may see benefits from upgrading since Professional of Windows offers features that Home Premium does not. (If the free offer is available to you then you could use Microsoft's upgrade offer now, but keep the software on an external device (cd/dvd/or usb drive) and install it some time in the future. -
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Yes, I used the 7970, orange light.
I get terrible FPS on games that are PC Only and open world. While games that are also on current gen consoles run great at ultra settings using 1080p.
Draw distances have to be ridiculously small to get good fps on Arma 2 and Red Orchestra 2, specially when there are many buildings/trees/npcs.
This a good laptop for browsing, media and stuff. The 3 screens are great for making a trading or work station. But not so great for games. I might sell it on Ebay for around 800-900 around May or June and hope there is a new Haswell i7 laptop from MSI or Sager out by then, having to put down some 1000 more or so to get it.
My conclusion, is that it will run Xbox360/PS3 games great, but not open world PC Only from 2010 or later games.
I'll try killing all unnecessary services and processes, turning the fan to 100%, plus external fan and lowering the resolution, maybe then I'll get slighty more playable fps on those games. -
Hey Guys,
I was wondering what people are using for their graphics drivers on windows 7 x64, I've been using the ones provided with the utility and drivers CD and they worked fine. Everytime I was in a game with the 7970m I had a white light and it work good. I read about the new drivers greatly improving the performance of the video card so I installed the latest 11/14/2012 12.11 beta drivers and I was getting black screens for all my video games.
I did a system restore back and then tried to install the 12.10 drivers and they were not any better. I'm now restored back to the orignal drivers but now when I play a game with the 7970m my power light does not change to white. I've set all programs to use the 7970m and when I trun a FurMark test and the 7970m is used I get like 100fps...
Anyone know why my light is staying orange? -
Since you forced all programs to use the 7970M, then orange should be always lighting. -
Thanks for the reply that fixes my confusion, the only other question I have is what drivers people are using?
I did a 3DMark11 Basic test yesterday with my normal drivers and orange light and only got 4600 when people are saying they get 6500?
I have the normal A10 and 750GB 7200RPM with 8GB Ram 1600...
Also does anyone use GPU-Z? I use it and it shows the iGPU around 100C all the time and it goes down under load but rises when I turn the fan on.... is that a glitch? -
Meaker@Sager Company Representative
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ArmA II CO - Max everything I pull a minimum of 25fps (normally 25-35). I am running Windows 7 x64 Ultimate, through steam, with utorrent, uplay, origin, killer, THX, and Firefox running in the background. I am operating at all stock frequencies, my room temperature is a spartan 62 degrees, and I have fans set on max on a solid level surface. System specs in my sig.
Not that I don't believe you, but I need to get a base line to figure out what is going on to help you troubleshoot. As an important note to keep in mind my play style, I consider 25FPS PERFECTLY playable - considering high def content (1080p movies) is delivered to you at 23.976FPS and I don't know of anyone to call blu-ray "laggy"And yes I realize there is a difference between 25 average and 25 min, I never dip below playable with ArmA II CO.
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WhatsThePoint Notebook Virtuoso
So,if you don't want to buy the upgrade to Windows 8 Pro that yields a retail key then the only place I've found an untouched Windows 8 ISO that works with an OEM Core Key to install the basic W8 x64 core version or W8 Pro depending on the key entered is from here.You will need a bit torrent client installed to download the ISO.
I tested the ISO by installing it on a spare drive using the base key imbedded
The following key is used for installing Windows 8 Core but will activate it.
FB4WR-32NVD-4RW79-XQFWH-CYQG3
The following key is used for installing Windows 8 Pro but will activate it.
XKY4K-2NRWR-8F6P2-448RF-CRYQH
Windows 8 RTM English 64bit ISO download link :
The Official Windows 8 Repository
Windows 8 RTM English, 64-bit (x64)
Size: 3.33 GB SHA-1: 1CE53AD5F60419CF04A715CF3233F247E48BEEC4
en_windows_8_x64_dvd_915440.iso -
I actaully followed this guide earlier today... it went terribly wrong...
After I tried installing it directly on my ssd it completed, but when I start my computer it got an error, an error to do with winload.efi with an error code of 0000225, good thing I didnt reformat my old windows so I was able to boot back to my old windows.
However..even after I reformated my ssd, when I start my computer I am still left with 2 different windows8 to choose from....eventhough one was suppose to be on my ssd that supposly wiped clean already....
So now I'm not sure what I am suppose to do anymore....I'm planing to give MSI a call and ask them to give me a step by step instruction to install my windows on my SSD.
Worse case scenario I will upgrade to Windows 8 Pro, but can I get an confirmation that if I upgrade to Windows 8 Pro for sure I can do a clean install with nothing will go wrong?? -
There are 2 boot mode on this laptop (legacy and UEFI). Burn UBCD, boot UBCD in legacy mode and use GParted to remove all partition on your SSD. Remove the HDD. Boot in UEFI, install Windows 8 on SSD. Let Windows 8 to create the partition for you. Don't change boot mode ever again. Put HDD back in. That's it.
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Maybe I exaggerated with "Unplayable" I am also able to get 25-30 on Arma 2. Not all Max settings, and with a ridiculously small draw distance, so small the UAV won't work properly. I'll check the exact settings I have tomorrow. It's Operation arrowhead, windows 8, US stock MSI GX60, 8GB RAM. All fans and cooler pad and also room temp of around 60-65. No programs running, only Steam and a few services for the network and sound, also the logitech peripheral central. I even go on the task manager and kill background processes like MSI super charger and others by third parties, also no antivirus or firewall or nothing. As bare as possible.
The game runs smoothly when there are trees and cars and tanks and a few
soldiers, but add a bit more detail such as in a city with a lot of buildings, and its unbelievably laggy and choppy. The "eye of the hurricane or typhoon" for example is a Lag Fest when inside the town. Draw distances to the lowest and all CPU-intensive settings turned down, all to no avail. 1080p resolution.
I'd appreciate a detail of your settings for Arma 2, specially the things like AA, Vsync, post process, and other that are not "texture" also, draw distances.
I have been messing with other games and I get almost good settings. The ones with Red Orchestra are OK, but when 5-6 NPCs are near It gets very choppy when running, not to mention when an enemy even comes close to meele on you, its like the game skips a whole second. I know some of this might be bad game optimization, but I red somewhere people with other gaming laptops ran it trouble free. With the GX60, it just struggles with NPCs, that's the A10 having a hard time with so many complex processes going on with the NPCs.
Most games I've tried run flawlessly. Games like Sniper Elite V2 run all Ultra, even with VSync and some AA with no problems, and it looks great. Also Far Cry 3 and Skyrim, Deus Ex: HE, and Sniper: Ghost Warrior,I came to the conclusion that If the game is also out for the Xbox 360, the Gx60 will run it like a champ on All Ultra settings, 1080p even with Vsync and Antialias on, only compromising with "small-medium" draw distances. the Only exceptions I've read about were GTA 4 and BF3.
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On a whim, I fired up operation arrowhead (the actual game itself - in the campaign) and there was marked slowdown to single digit FPS. I turned post-processing down to medium and set my view distance to about half (I forget the actual number but it was between 4 and 5 thousand. Possibly down into 3500-4000 all said and done) and was back at butter smoothe. Literally everything else is as high as it will go, and I can still see mountains in the distance.
V-sync is on, AA is max, I forget what it's actually called but I just picked the very bottom (where "very high" is on everything else in the drop downs) for what I think is anisotropic filtering. Those stayed as is, only changes I made in operation arrowhead (from literally every setting as high as it would go) again is just post processing and view distance.
Also with GTA IV I run some pretty nuts settings, I think I only turned down one or two things there too. Haven't tried BF3 yet (dunno if I will either, I liked bad company and as far as I know I can't get that on PC). Good to hear about sniper elite V2, I bought that and the original on the steam sale. Okay I bought 20+ games on the steam sale, I've been away from games for too long XD
Last question, are you running fraps or anything like that? Those dent the frame rate a bit - at the very least set it to only refresh once a second, if possible disable it entirely.
As for open apps in the background - Steam was downloading 4 games, and in my tray is: realtek audio, bluetooth, synaptics, THX, CCC, SBar (MSI's little hot-bar thing on the top of the screen, I don't dislike it and it is real low demand), Microsoft Security Essentials (with live monitoring or whatever it is OFF - penetration testing students nightmare when an antivirus wiped out your entire working directory), and steam icon. Sticky notes also open with one note, aero glass enabled, video card running at stock clocks. I do NOT have afterburner running. I am running Win 7 ult, 16GB RAM, 500GB 7200RPM Seagate, no SSD.
And now that I look the killer tray icon is off for some reason.. odd. Anyway, hope this helps. I didn't try Arma II on Win 8 since windows 8 decided to winload.efi poop on itself. OH, not sure if I mentioned it before, but Catalyst drivers 12.11 Beta 11 + CAP2. -
If so will my recovery get erased as well? or is there a particular way to reformat the HDD without messing with the hidden partition.
I'm fine with deleting the recovery partition, I made my recovery disks anyway, but just to confirm if that is what I am suppose to do. -
Meaker@Sager Company Representative
If you create the restore discs it will recreate all the partitions on any drive you run them on.
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Once you installed OS on SSD, you can put HDD back in and use diskpart to delete all of the partition on the HDD and just make it into 1 single partition. You will get rid of the recovery partition. But if you already made a set of recovery disk with MSI burn recovery, then you can always get your recovery partition back.
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So as long as I got my recover disks, I can do whatever I want with my hdd? And when I do use my recover disks it will recover my hdd to the exact same format as the factory defult with all the hidden partition and stuff?
Edit--- sorry eric and I posted at the same time..lol, well that answered my question.
One more question (sorry!)
I downloaded a Windows 8 iso, when I use it to install, do I have to activate it? Or will it pick up the product key in my bios automatically? -
For me Windows 8 picks up the activation so no need for manual activation.
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WhatsThePoint Notebook Virtuoso
You can't have 2 Windows 8 installations in the Same PC using the same key for activation;I've tried it.It will produce an error message.
Check the activation status by right clicking in the lower left corner>system>View details of activation
BTW,the $39 Windows 8 Pro Upgrade download offer is set to expire this month. -
It's $15 if you bought a new laptop and register it with MS to get the promo code: Windows Upgrade Offer - Landing Page
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WhatsThePoint Notebook Virtuoso
The offer I read(your link) says if you bought a PC with Windows 7.
My branded MSI notebooks were purchased without any OS so I have no 1st hand experience with the $15 offer.
My $39 downloaded ISO and key installs as a clean installation without and registry changes.No need to have Windows 7 x64 installed prior.I was very surprized at MS allowing this.
I've reinstalled Windows 8 Pro cleanly using the Upgrade key and Upgrade ISO 14 times in the same notebook and it was activated automatically each time when the installation completed. -
Oh yeah, I forgot that layjohn has W8 not W7. Sorry.
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BTW what is the benefit of upgrading to WIN8 Pro? I know you get a free media center, which I don't see any use of it...just to play video, music and stuff?? -
Code:Windows 8 Windows 8 is the basic edition of Windows for the IA-32 and x64 architectures. Documentation obtained from the ImageX tool and Paul Thurrott's book on Windows 8 also refer to this edition as "Core". On its installation on DVD, this edition is referred to as "Client". This edition contains features aimed at the home market segment and provides all of the basic new Windows 8 features including the Start screen with semantic zoom, live tiles, Windows Store, Internet Explorer 10, connected standby, Microsoft account integration, the Windows desktop and more.
Code:Windows 8 Pro Windows 8 Pro is comparable to Windows 7 Professional and Ultimate and is targeted towards enthusiasts and business users; it includes all the features of Windows 8. Additional features include the ability to receive Remote Desktop connections, the ability to participate in a Windows Server domain, Encrypting File System, Hyper-V, and Virtual Hard Disk Booting, Group Policy as well as BitLocker and BitLocker To Go. Windows Media Center functionality will be available only for Windows 8 Pro as a separate software package.
And just to clarify, by "it includes all the features of Windows 8" - that's Microsoft's way of saying "neener neener neener you are stuck with metro" since they even use metro as the interface on Server 2012. -
The differences between home premium and professional are mainly that professional has: more security (ex: file encryption) , more network features (remote desktop and file sharing options), and support for more RAM. You can find more about the different Windows 8 versions at the following web site:
Windows 8 editions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The differences between Windows 7 and 8 are more drastic. No Startbar, no Aero, no media center (by default) and less resources being tied up in a shell which leads to faster system and program start up in Windows 8. I didn't see any significant difference before and after adding the (temporarily free) add-on pack for Windows 8. (I prefer Media Player Classic Home Cinema and VLC over Windows Media Center anyway). -
View attachment 89971 I was asking for the difference between win8 and win8 pro.
Thank you both for the explanations, I kinda figure it's like the difference between win7 and win7pro...
Don't think I need to make the upgrade, doesn't really benefit me much...
BTW, everything went well with the fresh installation, THANK YOU ALL for the helps!
**When I was taking out the Hard drives, I notice that 3 screws that were suppose to hold down the fan wasn't there. I am positive those are suppose to be there, specially when the fan start spinning, it will wiggle alot...
I will definitely contact MSI and get my screws! Are any of yours like mine missing screws? -
WhatsThePoint Notebook Virtuoso
When you remove the bottom cover there are 3 screws that serve a double duty;they fasten the bottom cover onto the notebook but also go through the bottom cover and secure the fan.With the bottom cover removed the fan has one securing screw.With the bottom cover on the fan has 4 securing screws.
On my GT780DX there's one screw that does triple duty.It's marked by a keyboard icon in the plastic.It secures the bottom cover,the fan and the keyboard. -
try look at the picture again, I was editing them, it should work now. Let me know if it doesn't tho
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WhatsThePoint Notebook Virtuoso
BTW,do you have a red/black wire combination in the bottom of the notebook that plugs into motherboard used to cut off CMOS battery? -
I honestly don't know... I have to open up my laptop again, then again, what do you mean cut off CMOS battery? in fact what is a CMOS battery....?
A picture might help me a bit here..
On the other hand, after seeing my picture, is it normal that it's missing 3 screws there? or is it really like you said that those screws on the bottom have double funtions
ONE more question for everyone here, after reinstall I don't find the THXstudio program in my utility disk.
2. Do you guys like the sound without installing that or WITH it?
edit: nevermind #1 I found it on MSI website. -
they are in the cover you removed. Same with the second screw for each hard drive(so make sure you put the hard drive screw in the right hole before replacing the cover)
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o wow I never knew that... I was about to ask for the hard drives too... lol, well I THINK I got them in the right order.... they all went in, so... haha, thank you for the info
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Protip: Take the second hard drive bracket you got in the box, install the bracket in the machine and screw it down tight with the bracket screw. Take the two HDD screws and pop them in the empty screw-holes on the primary hard drive. There, now you never have to worry about losing the bracket and mount screws if you decide to get a second drive. Same deal as primary, make sure you get the right screw hole when screwing in the secondary bracket, the case/cover/whatever will occupy and secure the other. And with that, my consolidation-OCD is satisfied. haha
Edit: I did this all at once, since I ordered mine with no RAM I had to install the G.Skill as soon as I got it. If you're already in there, might as well -
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For those who are interested, I forced 2.7 Ghz on all 4 cores with PSCheck.
A-10 score went up from 2.0 to 2.25, so that is a 12.5% performance boost with no temp risks
3Dmak11 score also goes up from P4700 to almost P4850 with forced turbo on A-10 (No OC on the GPU).
HD 7970m welcomes any additional CPU power it can get.
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Received my replacement GX60 today.
Good news:
Fan is not stuck on max RPM on a cold boot.
Funny sound from wrist rest appears to not happen.
Bad news:
On the inside edge of the screen bezel there is a 2 inch white scuff/scratch, rather noticeable against a black shiny bezel and matte black screen. Infact there are a fair few small defects(miss moulding,scuffs or something) in finish around the inside edge of it overall. May not bother some but it does me.
Odd fan behavour still persists in that the system has once again since I unboxed it woke it self from sleep with fans on high at least once (though not as high noise as the first unit did) and then shut itself down completely for no reason.
Feedback on this thread continues to indicate my worries re: CPU performance and display driver updates that dont break screen brightness and that somewhat address the performance issues in certain games are still very much in effect. I realy am not in the mood these days to put lots of effort into making things work that should already do so.
I realy dont know what to make of the GX60 it seems..
EDIT: also noticed there is a fair size white back light bleed patch in the middle of the screen, near where the MSI logo is on the back of the lid. -
Download PSCheck program (newest version is 3.4.1).
Just run it and then go to Settings -> PState configuration and tick all core tabs on the left side of the menus under the "CPU Settings", on the right side untick all the PState options on ALL 4 cores, leaving only the Pstate with 2700 mhz ticked for each core.
Do not try to set 3200 mhz - it will just mess up how A-10 works.
When you have it all set to 2700 mhz on all 4 cores, then save the settings to a file so that you don't have to configure it again.
Just leave PSCheck running in the background and as long as it is running A-10 will permanently run at 2.7 Ghz on 4 cores instead of just 2.3 Ghz you have in CCC.
Run the program whenever you launch the notebook to have it's benefits and make sure your configuration plan of PState is selected -
So, I found out today that they are serious when they say "nVidia PhysX hardware acceleration: Maximum" Requires a *dedicated* 560 or better - Took Arkham City from 64fps average to 14fps average. Even Medium was down to 22FPS.
Box Stock install from Steam: 64FPS
Max Everything, PhysX Hardware accel OFF: 46FPS (realistic minimum not discernible, everything is fluid and butter smooth)
Max Everything, PhysX Hardware accel NORMAL: 24FPS (in an active area I would peg it at mid-to-high teens if I had to guess)
Max Everything, PhysX Hardware accel MAX: 13FPS (in an active area I would peg it at 8-10 if I had to guess)
Minimum frame number was USELESS, the benchmark read 0 on the max everything no physx, 5 on normal physx, 3 on max physx, and 2 on box stock. It apparently does what I view as crappy benchmarks do and records FPS between/during loading. Of course it's going to stutter for half a second or so when you load a new city and change to it! It's called a platter hard drive!
Anyway, That's today's lesson - When it is branded nVidia and says no touchie - experiment away. I'm curious what hardware was *actually* doing the acceleration, the dGPU, iGPU, or Processor. I wonder if there is a way to force it to use the 7660G if it wasn't already (unlikely that it was, but I have no idea)...
Also, on max physx, there are REALLY FREAKING COOL LOOKING newspapers that blow around and crumple and stuff in the wind on the ground. Just tossing that out there, they were not present in the medium or off setting.
I bet if I could get that 7660G firing the PhysX... I bet... I bet it could be doable on max. Hardware wise though that's probably not possible. -
hi all.
sry for my english, but im really need unlocked/hacked BIOS for GX60. anyone have it?
thank you. -
Today at the CES, AMD announced a Richland APU release with 20% performance improvement, probably a Piledriver refresh released this quarter. But didnt mention socket/compatability, but it adds some instructions too. I have to believe its backwards compatable as to not make system builders update mobos. May have been MSI's end game with this laptop all along.
Kaveri, with Steamroller is still set to release in 2nd half 2013. -
FPS with WOW MOP went up 10fps on Ultra Settings!!! Thankyou!
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I tried it with ONLY 2.7GHz, and tried it with 2.7GHz and 3.2GHz. How do I set it to lock the speed while it is closed - and do we disable 3.2GHz completely? I'd like it to be able to hulk smash if need be. -
XD been waitting for some good news for the new APUs!
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I believe I got the newest version... it would be nice if someone can provide a download page
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Newegg.com - ADATA XPG Gaming Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 204-Pin DDR3 SO-DIMM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Laptop Memory Model AXDS1600GC4G9-2 Has anyone tried this memory? Seems to be running smoother just need to run some benchmarks. Any benchmarks for memory testing that would come recommended?
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Voltage
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WhatsThePoint Notebook Virtuoso
You can try Maxx Mem2
http://occlub.ru/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3822&stc=1&d=1336631231
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AMD Showcases Processor Roadmap for 2013
Oh man I hope they are socket compatible...
*The Offical MSI GX60 Owners Lounge*
Discussion in 'MSI Reviews & Owners' Lounges' started by layjohn, Oct 12, 2012.