** 1070 laptop: "bd prochot" causing cpu throttling to 800MHz and stuttering **

I will try, on stress test I noticed core 0 and 2 get to mid 90s while core 1 and 3 get to ""just" high 80s.

EDIT: I repasted using less paste and screwed it without horizontal/vertical movements. Now the temperatures are almost 10º down from the tiny stress test I did.

This is how it looked on my original repaste:

Spoiler: original repaste

https://imgur.com/a/cFQM2Ko

And this is the ghetto test:

Spoiler: ghetto test

https://imgur.com/a/T4Ll3bH

 

Thank you for your pictures.
You can help improve the core temp differentials by using 0.5mm thermal pads on the VRMs and chokes instead of 1mm (on the GT73VR, GT75VR, GT72VR and GT72S; do not know about your exact system)
But let's look at your problem.

This issue, with cores 0 and 2 being 10C hotter than cores 1 and 3, happen on ALL MSIBOOKS with the VRM's above the CPU like yours. The problem is caused by a "combination" of the thermal pad cooling on the VRM's (causing extra elevation on that side) AND combined with a CONVEX heatsink. This is a difficult problem to pinpoint since more than one factor causes it. Do you see the CPU paste in the first picture? Notice how it seems to be CONCENTRATED more on the side CLOSER to the VRMs?? That means there is LESS HEATSINK PRESSURE on the CPU CORE on that area, so the paste gets 'pushed' from the higher pressure area (bottom) to the lower pressure area (top). Despite there being "more" paste, the extreme lack of pressure causes high core temp differences! You can see the copied pattern on the heatsink itself. Unfortunately it's extremely difficult to fix this problem by only one method. Often using thinner thermal pads combined with careful sitting of the heatsink can fix things. But if the pressure is TOO low, even if it seems balanced for awhile, a 4C core temp difference can become 10C after 1 week due to paste dryout on the lower pressure sides

I fixed this problem on my GT73VR by using thinner thermal pads *AND* sanding the heatsink fully flat.

 

Thanks for your input. Now "only" core 1 is like 10º higher than the lowest:

https://imgur.com/a/ic5r1St

Would those pads do the trick? What about those?

 

This means the BOTTOM LEFT core has weak contact OR no paste. Do you remember what i told you about a convex heatsink?
Did you fill the ENTIRE CPU SLUG WITH PASTE? A BGA CPU is *NOT* a IHS LGA CPU! THERE CAN NOT BE ANY GAPS in paste on the CPU surface!! If there are ANY GAPS you MUST MAKE SURE THE PASTE COVERS THE ENTIRE CPU!.

I used Arctic 0.5mm thermal pads. but i dont know about your system. It's different than a GT73VR, but the VRM layout is very similar.

 

A bit too much paste in the ghetto test.

 

What do you mean the CPU slug? Sorry, english isnt my native language. I think I put enough paste, just a tiny bit more than the ghetto test.
The screws are tight, and I used the inverse order of the screw numbers (12 to 1).
Should have took a pic of the mobo without the heatsink, but I think there are 4 VRMs on top of the CPU.

Also, how do you know the core#1 is at the bottom left? Is there any pic or document where I can see the core positions? Its useful to know.

 

He was talking about the thermal paste/compound, so you gotta apply this paste fully onto the surface of processor, because if it's not applied well, then the heat may not spread efficiently to the heatsink.

 

You mean using the spread method instead of the pea one?

 

The "pea" method is only for testing pressure. You don't use your laptop like that. Because if the paste doesn't spread perfectly evenly, you have a pressure problem.

 

@heliada

MSI from Portugal told me that they fixed the laptop... Could this be true or i will recieve a new VBios? They not sent me a tracking code to see where is the laptop not even MSI center told what they did to fix the issue...

 

I don't know. My laptop came with the vbios at first. It took a while to convince them otherwise, but it's possible they did find the problem in the end. You will see - worst case you have to install the normal vbios and send it again.

 

How many times you sent the laptop to the center? 2 right?

 

With this problem 2 times, but I also sent it before for other problems. And there were other issues with the laptop, the subwoofer cover popped off and it was vibrating loudly with loud music, it had a rather loud coil whine... And the time I spent troubleshooting their drivers made me quite mad (nahimic, dragon center, true color, realtek,...). It was unusable out of the box lets say.
Also the 2nd time it went with bd prochot they at first could not find the issue (because they installed the limiting vbios) and by that time I knew about the laptop more than the technician in the netherlands which probably impressed him. Also I had EXTRA warranty on it, you don't, right? I think the extra warranty I purchased also helped me in the end.
Don't forget it's been a while since they were troubleshooting my laptop, I am kinda sure they must have more info on it now.

 

Hey guys!!!

I recieve my GT72VR-7RE back and i notice that the Vbios is 86.04.5B.00.8A...on paper that is inside of laptop box say that gpu was changed and MSI Portugal confirmed also that today.

I cant check now with mafia 3, but i will do some tests and see if the problem still the same.

 

Where i can check the S/N of the gpu? i have some photos and need compare to check if the gpu was really changed...

@heliada @Falkentyne @Papusan @Phoenix @Mr. Fox

 

@Pedro69 the defect will not show up with that vbios even if it's still faulty and even if they exchanged the gpu. It limits it to 1645MHz and 0.88V or so and with that it will run.

 

For now i just saw that the termal pads on gpu were changed for the same pads when the laptop was openned for the first time...the artic pads still are the same on cpu(was me that changed those).

This chinese .8A Vbios was the same when you recieve the laptop?

I know that can up the MHz in gpu with MSI AfterBurner even with 8A Vbios but i need check first in games.

 

Check the barcode sticker on the MXM card.

 

Yeah the 8a vbios was on my laptop the first time too. You can up the clock but not the voltage. Honestly you didn't have to send it in for that "fix" lol.

 

You already know how to check the GPU. You've been told this 500 times yet you still ask the same questions over and over

REMOVE THE HEATSINK and look at the revision of the GPU. Please stop being lazy and put in the work like everyone else here does.

@heliada put in the work, hard work, for many months, and she was finally rewarded with a fast laptop, faster than mine. But all you do is just complain and ask the same questions over and over. No offense, but people don't exactly like freeloaders who refuse to put in work they are capable of doing.

I can't even copy and paste this so its annoying.
But this is "my" GPU ID shown on GPU-Z:
10DE-1BE1-1462-11B7. revision 1.2 card.

If you want 100% proof of your revision, remove the heatsink and look.

 

I think he already had the 1.2 card. Anyway he should just install the normal vbios and test. The 8a cripples the card imo.

 

I need check serial number of gpu and not the revision? can you read my words or i need explain in Portuguese? S/N not is the revision Again where i asked for the revision? Dam Falkentyne you not changed anything...

 

He was just trying to help. Just install the normal vbios and test it. Whether gpu was changed or not is irrelevant.

 

No heliada, @Kevin@GenTechPC give a nice tip and is what i need know...irrevelant or not heliada if they changed the gpu at least they know something since the other gpu that i had also was revision 1.2 .

 

Whether they changed it or not the most important is if it's fixed. Or not?

 

Agreed. Why his he trying to test the card revision then?
That's such a....bizarre question to ask. No card revision is going to fix his laptop. The entire system firmware castrated directly from China.
Only the 6 core laptops have a different vbios because due to more cancer restrictions, the older vbioses used on kaby lake systems will cause NO DISPLAY/POST problems when used on 8700K, but I don't know at all if this applies to BGA versions of the 8700K and partially locked versions (8850H etc). It does apply on Clevo systems. All because of DRM by Ngreedia.

Desktop cards don't care about this.

 

i recently got a tornado f5 (sig) and im noticing freezes , my guess is maybe because im using a mecanical hard drive , my temps are ok i get max 73c on the gpu and 80c on the cpu , i never had this issue with my previous gt60 2pe , but i dont have any other hard drive to test

 

im having some freezing issues as well my temps are decent , ill try what op says

edit : sorry for double post

edit : im unable to lock voltage on this gpu ,i tried with msi afterburner but no luck (voltage slider is locked and i tried 4 diferent fixes with no luck , modify cfg file , profile cfg file , using beta , enabling voltage control from settings)

 

You can unlock voltage with MSI Afterburner. Problem is the vbios wont allow the voltage changes! The slider works but the change is ignored by the video bios! It won't accept it.

 

so do i need to unlock the vbios?

 

Impossible.
no such vbios mod exists.
The only person who would know how to allow voltage control on MXM Pascal is @bloodhawk
And Ngreedia has MXM Pasacal locked down so hard and so much that I don't even think he could overcome such cancer !

 

so why the OP suggest locking the voltage with msi afterborner if its not even possible ?

 

You can LOCK an existing voltage.
By locking the graph in MSI afterburner, in the Control F graph, or combining locking with lowering the clock speed.

Note you are not going to have much success locking a voltage much higher than 0.875v because you're just going to run into power (PWR) limits, which will throttle the clocks and make the voltage keep dropping. The only way you will ever see 1.062v consistently or 1.050v is if you're playing a game which uses less than 100% of the GPU, like extremely old games. Then the GPU will just boost up as high as possible. Unreal Tournament 2004 (without Supersampling anti-aliasing forced in Nvidia profile inspector) is a good example of 20% GPU usage.

You can NOT exceed 1.062v. Ever. Unlocking the slider for +100mv does nothing even if you manage to move the slider.

Please don't mix them up.

 

tanx for your reply , i want to isolate the problem so correct me if im wrong this happens because a faulty gpu or faulty mobo ?

Edit: ill just read the entire thread to have better understanding of the issue

Edit 2: i can confirm i have 800mhz dips while gaming and my gpu max temp is 73C so im assuming cpu throttles down when my gpu hits 73C? still have to confirm that , ill do a throttlestop test with limit reasosn window open to see what it says as soon as i get home from work , i have a gut feeling its prochot issue , and i wonder if there are other tornado f5 users with the same problem?

edit 3 : i have rev 1.0 gtx 1070 but i havent had any crash or bsod , i get performance dips while playing the division and ac origins , i have a spare gtx 980m i could use for testing purposes but i dont have a the proper heatsink

edit 4 : im using a 330w adapter , brand new , also as i mentioned before i have assasins crees origins so i can test that game , i got the laptop second hand barebone from ebay for 430 bucks , it looks like new. ram , cpu and psu is brand new , second hand is gpu and laptop ,

edit 5 : i have unlocked bios

PD: im starting to regret selling my GT60

 

@heliada Same result with .44 Vbios :/ , will return again the laptop...

 

i was looking the bios and saw an option voltage optimization , i set up "disabled" and the drops where gone , i have an unlocked bios , ill put it on enabled again to see if i get the drops again . ill post any findings ,

edit i played like 40 min of assasins creed origins and 1 hour of the division

 

Can you set it back to enabled and do another test? (pretty please?)
same perfect graphic and charts as this.

 

i did another session with voltage optimization enabled but i forgot to open xtu and strangely TS didnt showed any limit reasons neither , HOWEVER i did noticed the dips and freezes during gameplay ... ill post my screen shots later tonight or tomorrow after work

edit : forgot to mention when voltage optimization was disabled my gpu went beyond 73C (74 max temp on that session) with voltge optimization enabled my GPU only gets up to 73C no matter what ,and ive played quite a lot that way

 

Post back with conclusive findings if you can though. I know it will take time to be sure.
Very possible this setting only affects systems with LGA CPU's. I'm testing it now on a BGA. Had it at auto. Just set it to disabled. My GTX 1070 is at 230W TDP. Going to see what happens.

 

btw i have all prochot settings disabled in my bios as well

 

You should post in the Msi barbone thread. Where people have same laptop.

 

Kevin, the barcode sticker is the same... they said that the gpu was changed but still the same :/ even in note that i recieve say that gpu was changed...

 

What number/letter do you have on the barcode sticker before and after? Can you share it so we can help to make sure?

 

Number/letter are all the same...you can check in this photo http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...z-and-stuttering.813644/page-29#post-10688978

Anyways you see a blue mark on "Ver: 1.2" ? Its the same mark when laptop arrived.

 

That's PCB version. The barcode sticker shows 1W01V113S/001 173K154036 is the one that we want to put attention on. Do you have picture that shows another set of code?

 

Yes Kevin, im talking about Version 1.2 just to show the blue mark...i understood your first message about barcode info and its the same 1W01V113S/001 173K154036... and your info about barcode stickers was very useful since now i know how to check the S/N of some parts...i have many of that stickers.

 

sorry for the late response , well i decided to install intel chipset driver and management driver and i cannot replicate the stuttering anymore xD
both graphs have voltage optimization enabled but one has intel management driver and the second one i uninstalled intel management driver



NOTE: i did get suttering without intel drivers regardless voltage optimization setting
i did uninstalled management drivers but i still get smooth framerate still , cannot uninstall chipset driver to replicate stutter according to this link
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000006081/software/chipset-software.html
apparently this was not a prochot issue (thank god) chipset driver fixed the issue
second graph has a dip because i had to switch windows to do something in chrome
both graphs are from assasins creed origins

 

i apologize , ill do that , but since i thought it was proc hot (which it wasnt) i posted this here

 

All good. Was only a meant as a advice.
Always try main forum who have exactly same hardware as yours. Not all visit other places like etc this thread.

 

Seems your issue was totally unrelated. You only talked about stuttering but did not specify whether the cpu clock was dropping all the way to 800MHz as ours did... And you did not look into ts for limit reasons before posting? To be fair we with the true bd prochot issue and gt72vr tried everything to make it go away, hence even stumbling upon undervolting in msi afterburner. Trust me if driver updates or downgrades or fresh installs helped then we would have found it. No one actually knows what the problem is so far, just that the laptops for some reason miss some vital EC fw entries (battery boost/NOS/hybrid power whatever you call it). I doubt that applies to your laptop which most likely also has totally different motherboard etc. But glad to hear you fixed it after all. Enjoy the beast.

@Pedro69 don't just send the laptop back in. Call MSI and ask them politely but persistently for an explanation. Claiming they exchanged the gpu while this is not the case is unacceptable, imagine taking your car for service and they claim they changed the oil and oil filter while they did nothing. Did it go to Poland? I honestly think they should fire the people working there on spot.