GT72/GT72S and GT80/GT80S Owners GPU Upgrade Discussion

I 've just had the answer of the MSI support for France, the usual :

Hello,

The new Nvidia GTX 10 series graphics products is been released, but for our current Notebook products with GTX 800M, GTX 900M series graphic cards, a direct MXM card upgrade to the latest generation (GTX 10 series) graphics is NOT recommended.
The latest generation (GTX 10 series) graphics has huge improvement in terms of performance, thus it also requires different motherboard design/power/thermal configurations.

For the best Nvidia GTX 10 series graphics experience, its themal module and power solution is not compatible with old generation.
Please our new GTX 10 series graphics system instead of MXM upgrade if you want to experience new graphic performance.

https://www.msi.com/Laptops/

Best Regards,
MSI Notebook Technical Application Department

 

That's pretty much verbatim - plus or minus translation differences - what we were told in the US, before the trade-in program was announced.

 

Seems my same support comedian

 

Gotta reply from MSI, I am fuming :

Hello ,
Please kindly be informed that MSI has released Nvidia N17 generation products, but for our current Notebook products with GTX 8XX, GTX 9XX graphic cards,a direct MXM card upgrade to the next generation (N17) graphics is NOT recommended.
The next generation (N17) graphics has huge improvement in terms of performance, thus it also requires different motherboard design/power/thermal configurations.
For the best N17 generation graphic experience, please be informed that N17 generation thermal module and power solution is not compatible with old generation.
So we advise our user to buy the whole new N17 system instead of MXM upgrade if they want to experience new graphic performance.
Thank you!

Best Regards,
MSI Notebook Technical Application Department



And this is what I responded with :

Hi,

MSI advertised GT72S notebooks as upgradeable.
The product I purchased is not as advertised.
Also how is MSI UK going to address this?

MSI US stepped up and is offering a trade in program for gt72 and gt80 owners.

There are many unhappy MSI GT72 AND GT80 owners in the UK and rest of the world right now.

See the link for proof :

http://forum.notebookreview.com/index.php?threads/795236/

Please resolve this major issue affecting ALL owners of gt72 and gt80 notebooks or MSI is guaranteed to lose many fans and get very negative coverage by the industry press.

Regards


Sent from my LG-H950

 

@hmscott Just got a reply to my ticket.

Guess its time to write them a lovely response, I am sorry MSI i don't support companies that LIE with false information of a product feature which results in that feature not being delivered on. So i will be placing MSI with the Sh1t tip companies like DELL ACER ASUS etc to where i will not be recommending them to any one that asks for product recommendation which because i loved how i was treated by MSI with the barebone system of mine guess what it was always MSI i recommended. You MSI have put the middle finger up at all your customers that because of that I will see your middle finger and raise it to two middle fingers and will not be buying your systems ever again. If you want to go the way of DELL and every other OEM down that Sh!tty place go for it.

Guess my next system will be a portable custom built desktop.


I have also started smashing tweets out on all their products advising against purchasing their products due to this with the hash tag #MSILIARS. Lets make our voices heard and difficult to ignore.

 

Seeing all those responses from the MSI representatives, it makes me chuckle a bit seeing how they recommend "buying a whole new system", well it may be easy for them to say "oh ho ho buy a new laptop" in a pompous accent, but to the common people like us, dropping 3-4-5k on a laptop is not an everyday occurance. They have very much shafted many of us out of our savings money in hopes of a long lasting product. They have betrayed us of our trust in them to live up to the expectations. They continue to disrespect us with their pussyfooting of the issue with the PDF that is not even publically addressed, which reflects back on their dishonest aforementioned betrayal.
This is an issue that cannot be tolerated by us as a community. I hope to alert everyone and tell them to no longer purchase MSI products. Brand trust and reputation is not easily built. But seemingly overnight with a few wrong choices and wrong approaches to this issue, MSI has demolished that trust and reputation to many of us.

 

So true, You've hit nail on head there bud.

 

I have been praising and recommending MSI to my colleagues and people asking for advice on which gaming laptop to buy.
This ends now.
MSI simply do not deserve any positive word of mouth anymore.
UK, Europe and rest of the world cannot trust their promises and marketing.

 

It's very possible that their tech support is offshored and outsourced. If this is the case, then talking to them would be useless. Does anyone here know?

 

Bigpete, if you bought that machine in July expecting to take advantage of the MXM upgrade path to GTX1080, you would still have to pay for that privilege. So I can't see MSI offering you credit because they have now released a more powerful notebook at a lower price point. I hope like the rest of us, you get upgraded (either MXM cards that fit/work or a new machine) at minimal cost.

 

Is a GT62 with GTX 1080 in the works?
Looks like the chassis can handle the extra power from what I've seen.

 

So.... I replied to MSI's email with.....

And got this reply.....

"It's upgradable"

?????

 

They have no idea about what they are reading and what they are answering.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I received this reponse when asking about the upgrade program in the US.

"our marketing team will announce this in the beginning of next month so please visit our website during that time for more info."

In response to this message to service:

"This is a request for additional information regarding the GPU upgrade program. MSI has promised two generations of upgrades for my product and I wanted to know when the first generation (in my case) upgrade will be available."

 

Absolutely nothing new from MSI there. Any answers you get from them are dependent on who you ask, the time of day, what mood they're in, and the alignment of the planets.

 

I've just answered to the MSI support (sorry for my bad english) :

"If I correctly understand your answer, you are telling me that after spending 4K € to buy one of the most high-end computers in your brand 5 months ago, I have again to spend 4K or 5K € if I want to enjoy the new GPUs ???
Let me tell you this: I bought the GT80S for its possible MXM evolution, I would not have done it otherwise, because it was promised by MSI the ability to upgrade to at least 2 new generations of future GPUs .
So I really hope soon to hear a different version, that the promises that have been made by MSI customers will be honored...
Otherwise, it will be a BETRAYAL from MSI."

 

But the point is that it's NOT upgradable. If it was, he would be ok with paying that premium at a later date when he was ready. The fact is, now people who just recently dropped $3500 on one of these laptops with ambition to upgrade it later, are mostly likely going to be forced to drop potentially another $1500 or more to upgrade...... Within 90 days of purchase. If I wanted to drop 5k+ on a laptop, I would have done it.

I'm in the same boat as him, purchased a gt80s last month. I'm just days out of my return policy when I find this out. And now going to be forced to fork over a ton more cash I didn't plan on.

So to recap for you.
-only days out of return policy
-zero upgradability
-possible upgrade to newer laptop if I want to give up my other leg as well within the next 60 days.

You don't see a problem here? I guess maybe I'm just expected to take it in the ass and just fork over another 5500 bucks next year for a 83vr. Screw it, what's 10k in laptops every 12 months, right? Completely normal.

 

Not a MSI laptop user here, but I could've been one few months ago when I'm looking for a new laptop. because I saw this....



I do hope owners here will get a fair treatment and resolution in the end, bring MSI to court, or wtv. False advertising and broken promises should not be tolerated.

 

Some Answers from MSI

I called MSI and asked them a few questions and got a few answers.

Q1: The link is broken to the form what do I do?!
A1: They emailed me the form, Said to fill it out by Oct31'st the be eligible... So you will not have to upgrade now, but you will need to send it in.

I took the liberty of uploading the document for you guys since the link is broken on the forums. http://www.naveronasis.com/MSI/MSI GT Trade In Uppgrade program.pdf

Q2: How much will it cost to trade in for a 10 series GS83?
A2: TBD

Q3: If I kept my 900 series GT80, and I wanted to upgrade from a 965m to a 980m or 980, how do I get these parts directly from MSI rather than second hand from E-Bay
A3: You have to call us and request the parts from our RMA/Parts center. It will also take a long time since we do not retail these parts.

My thoughts on this are that it is a little odd they would say this having marketed and sold an up-gradable laptop. But at least we know how to get the parts now.

PS: You can listen to the whole call if your into that that sort of thing. http://www.naveronasis.com/MSI/MSI_Round_001.mp3 I did edit out my email address. But the call is for the most part, un-edited.

 

For what it's worth, I queued the form several times. It eventually loaded. Thanks for a more reliable link though.

 

You can't count on upgrading from a 965m to a 970m/980m working out right. You need to change a lot of parts to get the cooling and mounting parts matching. Then I assume you will need to get a matching BIOS/vbios from that series (Haswell, Broadwell, Skylake).

Until someone has done it successfully, and gathered a complete to the task list of parts to order, there will be some risk - and a long delay as you make additional parts orders as you discover your existing parts don't fit the new MXM GPU - cooling bits also match up with other cooling bits like CPU and heat exchangers - larger fans with new fittings, probably.

MSI has explicitly stated they won't support upgrades within Maxwell models, so you/we are on our own to figure it out.

 

maybe i am old fashioned but if i was msi i would simply consider making a "msi club" --a on-going program instead of trying to make technical, vendor based upgrades, work in the future, without vendors support. bottom line imho, is both nvidia and intel will have to do, what they have to do, to put more power into these notebooks, every year, so depending on those two, to provide backwards compatibility is a loosing bet over any significant frame of time. .

so if i was msi i would partner with both intel and nvidia and create a program for your dedicated customers so people who own a laptop with a gtx/i7, if you have a laptop with those ingredients and the warranty is registered to your name, you get 10 or 15 % off a laptop of "equal or greater value" for up to 2 years.

this way if i bought a i7/980m msi laptop in 2014, i get 15% off a msi laptop with 1080/i7 in 2016.
if i buy the 2016 i7/1080 lapptop, i get 15% off msi until 2018 with i7/1180, etc ,etc.
this would provide strong incentive for me to upgrade every 1 or 2 years.

an ongoing "member" system like this would help keep customers loyal, grow market share for msi over time, and would help insure recurring revenue on a 1 or 2 year cycle, and is not prone to "Upgrade shenanigans" due to vendors like intel and nvidia.... seems a system like this, addresses most problems with technical upgrade paths. you could partner with intel and nvidia to help share some of the 10-15% discount. just an idea.

 

they take the serial number for the upgrade/discount in the form they provided.
once a serial number has been processed 1 time and discount/upgrade given out for that serial, they can flag the serial number to prevent a resold laptop from triggering the discount again and again. they can make this process work pretty easily with no additional cost , while still allowing people to resell the laptop. process wise it is possible for them to easily do this with essentially no cost, so i dont consider, that laptop owners, reselling a used laptop to other people, is an issue at all when it comes to upgrade/discount process.

 

I'm not crazy about the eligibility that he brought up. That more than suggests that there will be a trade in fee. That definitely does not work in my case and it doesn't work for other people who may have wanted to have the flexibility to upgrade with used / marked down MXM cards that may not come directly from MSI. By doing this trade in program, we're locked in to trade in directly with MSI and only them with no alternate paths for upgrades.

 

Did you send in the trade-in document yet? You fill in serial number and model number from your laptop registration, and that's what makes you eligible.

We don't know if there is going to be a charge for the trade-in. I also suggested MSI let us keep our laptops instead of sending them in.

MSI is likely working out the process and costs now, so give your input here in the form of a question(s):

[Official] Questions for the MSI Rep! #2
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/official-questions-for-the-msi-rep-2.795226/

Please keep the discussions here, not in the "[Official] Questions for the MSI Rep! #2" thread.

 

From his phone call he was told we'd be eligible for two years once we submit the forms. That means that most likely the trade in its not free. Otherwise our eligibility period wouldn't matter.

But you're right, I'm just assuming at this point.

 

This would be ideal for me, although I don't see it happening. If MSI didn't try to resell these as used through retailers, significantly discounted and branded non-upgradable to recoup for trade-ins, I would assume they'd part them and use the GPUs, ram, and SSD for future warranty claims the next couple years.

That being said, if they're gonna try and tell me that I need to pay 1500 bucks and send them my laptop, they're gonna catch major wind from me. That promotes 0 brand loyalty, 0 customer trust, and says a lot about their overall integrity as a highly regarded electronics retailer. They'll lose a lot of business I would assume. I'd be buying ROG from that day forward.

 

I didn't listen to the call, my guess is that guy must be guessing right now too

IDK if MSI will allow a 2 year trade-in period, after meeting the 2 month October, 31 2016 submission deadline, but that would be nice - at least for those that hear about this offer in time.

What about the 99% of the people with GT72/GT80's that don't hear about this trade-in offer in time??

 

I hope you're right. I hope it means everyone is eligible to upgrade at some point.

Would love to keep it. I already put too much time and money into it.

 

Having a 2 year eligibility period would be amazing, because I'd definitely hold out for a Volta machine, with the assumption that it'll launch by October 31st 2018.

 

On a side note: if God forbid this trade in goes south, I'm definitely considering this as alternative to MSI http://www.anandtech.com/show/10599...070-gpus-in-sli-optional-120-hz-display-panel *drool* everything is upgradable in this baby.

 

Yep i have put in a few £££'s worth into mine with the New M.2 NVME drive and two M.2 SATA drives and we all know that 1TB M.2 SATA drives aren't cheap.It be nearly £600 total in storage upgrades alone plus another £80 on the 16GB DDR4 modules i got too. The GPU was the last thing i was going to do the last save up to get. But i very much doubt EU/UK will get the trade deal we always get the bad deal and i mean always, thanks to Toothless trading standards.

 

and so, after the tales of upgradable GPU and "selected countries" ... there is no two without three ... and appears the fable of the "dont we told you so, but the upgrade (or trade) will only for those who attend a secret forum, from September to October 2016, and only in the United States".
It becoming quickly more and more pathetic.

The next move to get into the graces of the msi and get the trade? an exercise test? a Guinness? I know i know... something like run naked on the street with a broom in the ass and girlfriend filming us with phone? But after if you dont upload it from a msi notebook...you are not eligible, a-ah!

 

There's very little reason to assume the other regions of the world won't get a trade in as well. The PR hit would be too massive, to imagine they'll eat that without a word in edgewise.

It's not like MSI is an American company.

Everything was supposed to be upgradeable in the previous model too, yet those owners are on the outside looking in like us, without even a trade in program on which to fall back.

 

far better rather msi trash...if only I still have my 5000 €

 

I'm with you on that one. If I don't get an even trade in ( 1070 or 1080 sli) I'm selling this thing off and looking at the Asus GX800 series. Or I will give Sager another try. I have faith in MSI, though

 

You do realize that P870DM owners also got screwed upgrade-wise by Clevo, except they don't even have the benefit of a potential trade-in?

 

So my uncle bought my GT72S last July 2016 at USA but had it imported to the Philippines since electronics are really expensive here.

Am I eligible still to apply to for the GT72/GT80 Trade in Program? Are there any guidelines for my case? (Bought in USA but I am not in USA) Really is a bummer, I was hooked with the MXM upgradable marketing since with that I have time. Now it seems like time really is not on our side with this trade in program.

 

at least this has 120hz, gsync and 2.0 hdmi.
and the "new" GT83VR?? which for $ 5,000 it gives you no gsync, no 120hz...and again 1.4 hdmi? We want to talk? better not. I've already pissed off when I found it out six months ago on my GT80S ... it was already old "at the time".

 

Oh I know. I'm just saying if we don't have practical options I might as well take a route where *everything* is upgradable. Right now we're ahead of Clevo users, for now.

Also I realize it's a very pricy option but it would definitely be something I'd consider dumping my desktop for.

 

Hey its the guy who had the phonecall, I would like to clear up some misconceptions + add some comments to a few things.

Misconception 1: You have 2 years to upgrade once filling out the paperwork.
Truth: On the phone they said you will be eligible after you fill it out, they did not state for how long.

Misconception 2: Buying MXM parts wont have matching coolers.
Truth: if you parts order it though MSI they will send you the proper matching cooling components, or you have the option to send it to them to have the GFX cards updated by a technician at MSI.

Comment I would like to respond to: "It would be nice if MSI sent us the upgrade and let us keep our laptop.
Response: That wont happen, they will want the old hardware to verify that you really own it, even if the have the option to pre-ship with collateral (meaning they send you a new unit once you put up collateral (like charging it temporarily to credit) then when you get the NEW unit, you put the old one in the box and send it back. I don't know what they will do with the old units, maybe they will referb and rebrand them in a secondary market, or strip them for parts, or just melt them down I don't know, but they wont let you have a new laptop for free, and let you keep your old one... that is for sure out of the question.

PS: I finally uploaded a icon so my posts are easier to spot.

 

i think bottom line is an actual upgrade wont work on a technical level. unless your 980 sli rigs came with 2 330 watt power supplies and internal components, made to work with those power supplies, you can forget about putting the new 1080 mxm cards into the old chassis. period. so best case is an actual machine swap with you paying the difference in mxm upgrade fees, and sending out those machines. not necessarily msi's fault. thats just how nvidia decided to make the new cards.

technical shenanigans like this is why i suggested simply a membership style discount, so you can just buy a whole new laptop at a discount and optionally sell your old rig.

 

I think moving to a 1070 sli gt83 should cost nothing for 980 sli owners. 1080 sli? yes. The cost should be around 400-600 USD, which is the difference in cost between a 980 sli titan and 1080 sli titan. ( 4400-4600 USD -> 5000 USD)

 

why should it be free? thats like saying you should be able to trade in your used 2010 v8 mustang for a new 2017 v6 mustang for even money....makes no sense.

cost for duallie mxm modules for top of line graphics cards historically is 1500-2000$. thats how much a pair of 980's cost with heatsinks during last upgrade cycle.

no offense but i think your sense of entitlement is tingling....

 

Well at least in Mexico, MSI continues to encourage users to buy the GT72 and GT80, since they still saying that these models are upgradeable. This conversation happened today:

 

I'm cool with that as long as they give me a year or more to do it. October 31st isn't gonna cut it. Guess we have to wait to hear more.

 

register for the program by oct 31, and you will have some time after that, to actually make the swap/trade in.
either way i doubt the cost will be less than 2k (market cost for 2 mxm cards)

 

No, it's not like that. Why do people keep trying to relate this to cars? And improperly at that.

If you really want to use that metaphor, it would be like a car manufacturer making a key selling point to their car that you'll be able to put the next two new generation motors in it without having to purchase a new car. And you do it because that's much cheaper. You like the idea of such a small car that has all the best features and is upgradable, cause everyone else who can do this has to drive a semi around town.

But then the manufacturer comes back after you bought the car and tells you that they had to redesign the whole car because the new motor makes way too much power for the old chases.

Sorry, you'll have to buy a new car. Or, how bout this, give us your car back, and pay us more money for the same car with the new, better motor because we think this car is worth more now. We don't care that you mostly bought the car because you could put new motors in it, this is what we're willing to do. Oh yeah, you have two months to come up with the difference. Or, you can just keep your car and buy our new car when you're done with that one.

 

because he is implying the swap should be done for free. that why i used that analogy.

i get the paid scenario, just dont understand his argument for free scenario.

paid scenario is a matter of false advertising, even though its not necessarily msi's intention to break the promise (nvidia clearly went beyond mxm spec with 1080, which breaks backwards compatibility, so they screwed msi).

paid trade in or upgrade either way is at least 2k.

 

I agree it shouldn't be free. But you throwing solid numbers out there makes no sense. It should and needs to be situational.

For instance. People who have broadwell gt80 are literally getting a complete system upgrade. Skylake, ddr4, doubling their data speeds with m.2 super raid 4, upgraded monitor and gpus.

I'm only getting new gpus because I have an s. Why should I have to pay the same as someone who has an 80? I'd also like to use my laptop for a year, then get a completely revamped, upgraded in every way with new tech laptop for just the cost of the GPUs, who wouldn't? Hopefully there's a list of each laptop model for each year and what it would cost to jump to each new model, whether more expensive or not. I really don't see a 100% fair for everyone way to do it, unless we can keep and sell our old laptops as stated for current market value online to close the gap.