What's the deal with the P75 creator laptops and support?

I bought a P75 creator (P75 9SF to be specific) last year and MSI seems to have abandoned support almost instantly after it launched. It took forever to get the first BIOS update (January this year) and when I checked the modules inside it looks like the original BIOS was simply rereleased. That BIOS seems to be dated August 19th 2019. I have been checking every month since then and there has never been a BIOS update. Today I checked again and the support page is literally blank.

https://www.msi.com/Laptop/support/P75-Creator-9SF

This feels like some kind of 3rd party deal gone bad where this was never a MSI product to begin with and the deal between the actual OEM and MSI fell through.

I had a similar thing happen with my NUC8i7HVK where Intel and AMD had a falling out resulting in the Vega part of Intel's chip being abandoned by both parties.

 

Support page is back up but ....... still not BIOS update since January.

 

And why are you expecting a BIOS update?
BIOS updates after release usually only cripple performance...

 

Compatibility with new RSTe drivers and updating microcode.

Literally every single system I maintain has had between 2 and 4 BIOS updates this year.

Beyond that, MSI has also done literally nothing to offer driver updates.

The page also seems broken again.

If the page goes back up you should open the BIOS UBU UEFITool, the modules are all a year or more out of date.

By contrast I support 4 of these laptops, just this year there have been 3 updates, and the system is not a premium product and is much older:

https://www.asus.com/Laptops/ASUS-VivoBook-Pro-15-N580GD/HelpDesk_BIOS/

I have checked other MSI products and there are updates as often as expected and there seems to be effort to list updated drivers, there is something clearly wrong with this line of laptops.

 

Why do you want newer drivers and updating the microcode? Is there something not working? Constant BIOS is not exactly the norm and usually done to fix actual problems- not something constantly expected. Manufacturers even try to avoid doing this if possible to prevent possible brick by end user.

That being said, I've used several brands and manufacturers/models, and i've never have had to update BIOS unless it's fixing a real problem. In the industrial/professional scene is even more shunned upon, because you want absolute stability and uptime so "messing with it" tends to make everyone nervous hahahahaha.

 

The most important thing is to fix vulnerabilities! Intel® Product Security Center Advisories
Optimization and stability of the drivers when you upgrade the operating system.

 

When a vendor provides BIOS updates they allow you to make the call on what to install and if it matters to you. MSI (on this specific laptop but not others) has decided to take that choice away.

About the drivers, obviously I get my own but that isn't my point. There are literally no updated drivers posted and to me this indicates an abandoned product. Just this month (due to 20H2) a huge number of vendors are releasing new drivers. Within the last week alone Intel has rolled out blutooth, wifi and LAN drivers and this was related to BSOD issues some people were having. The drivers for these three devices on MSI's support page are all dated August and September of 2019.

As far as BIOS updates bricking systems, I also remember the early 2000s. Today, MS actually sends BIOS updates through windows updates to address microcode issues.

In short, try to actually answer my question if you want to chime in here.

MSI is providing driver and BIOS updates for many products, you can verify this yourself. MSI seems to have completely abandoned the P75 Creator and I am curious as to why they are not even offering the ability for their users to evaluate their need to install microcode mitigations for Intel chip flaws. Posting driver updates won't help advanced users (because we get them ourselves) but for the average user there are very legitimate reasons to provide at least Nvidia and networking drivers on site.

 

Exactly. I want the ability to choose to install them if I want. This is a gen 9 premium product that was well over $2000 as configured. To completely abandon it makes me think about looking elsewhere next round as I have 0 faith that any of MSI's support will be worth using.

 

And you can download all those drivers or let Windows force update sooner or later..
Microcode updates are currently an hot topic, because when the last microcode hits your laptop you will lose the hability to undervolt and you wont be happy.

Asus did the same crap in lots of laptops, nothing like a forced BIOS update after a Windows update, done so well that it doesn't even check if the laptop is on battery or AC, so it just starts updating your BIOS even with a low battery, nothing like take your new locked BIOS without undervolting and say hi to 90ºC just during boot, flashed my modded BIOS right away and blocked that BS.
The rest are just generic drivers, download them, or let windows update them, Dragon/Creator Center is a load of BS, no need to use it for anything.

 

What I am saying though is that I am not being given the choice when it comes to BIOS. MSI has access to all of the same upgraded modules that every vendor has access to and put out as many or as few updates as they want. I have never dealt with a vendor that simply does not offer updates at all. If they really want to go the 'no updates' route then MSI should be like Asus and provide a BIOS flash button so I can build my own BIOS and flash it. No random Joe/Jane is ever going to end up accidentally doing this so there is no "its dangerous for novices" excuse.

For the hell of it I used UBU to build an updated MSI BIOS. In particular I want the newest microcode and newest RST ROM modules. The modules MSI is using are v17.0.0.3720, these are nearly 2 years old. v17.8.3.4687 are the current V17 branch and there is even a V18 branch now. There are ways to force flash this with 3rd party tools but at this point it feels like I am working way too hard to work around something that MSI is responsible for.

I get all of my driver updates from the manufacturer or from 3rd parties will access to new drivers before they are listed publicly (station drivers), this isn't the issue. The issue is that MSI is not posting any updates whatsoever and that implies that this is the level of support you can expect for a premium $2000+ product. Nvidia constantly posts updates for new games and bug fixes and Intel squashes networking bugs. The Intel updates recently literally address a BSOD issue with new windows builds.

 

I have chased that rabbit hole on my GT72, trying lots of oROM and driver versions chasing performance, even Fernando from win-raid did it and created pairs of oROMs and drivers, but between the best of the best and stock iRST oROM there is like a 1-2MB/s difference in read/write speeds, if it works, dont touch it is my motto for firmware.
The MSI BIOS is pretty decent with the unlockable menus anything you need to tweak is accessible without BIOS mods, heck I'm not even running the last BIOS for my GT75 and I'm running a BIOS from 2019, everything works fine, why risk to botch it with some stupid hw limitation.
You are putting way more value into a BIOS update than it really offers, or you might get a poisoned pill like Acer is giving with locked undervolting and a forced +51mV voltage offset..

I'm not against updates for sake of security, but plundervolt is such a specific exploit that they could name it extract widevine and HDCP keys exploit..

 

Hahaha of course, which is my original point- If you don't have an issue for the time being, asking for a BIOS update is like throwing a rock into the ocean. You should always keep in mind any vulnerabilities and deficiencies that affect you into account, that doesn't mean that vulnerabilities appear on a regular schedule.

Vendors should provide updates for software to give you the most stable, working product you can get. Requiring specific ones like nvidia drivers on a consistent basis is nonsense as these get updated so much and by many factors that would require additional manpower to just "test" for stability. What they should do is test big stable releases and then put them on the site, but no manufacturer will ever keep up with drivers nearly as much as hardware manufacturer themselves. As you pointed out, Intel rolled out drivers to address what some people were experiencing. Not everyone, so not all updates have the same value for all users.

That being said, you can literally ask support to consider any and all issues you have with the product so that they can take it upon themselves to fix it with updates. The reason why some machines feel left alone to their demise is because some are quite niche new products. Naturally you will see the most support on the "popular" models while some will feel left in the dust. But sometimes they simply take a while to update, or some updates are compatible but not left in the web page. They definitely need to work on that as you point out, so that the page at least has the most recent tested and working drivers. Often times you can get some of those by contacting them directly.

As for BIOS, you already know these should be performed for important tasks and IMO indeed be left to the end user, not pushed by windows (which casually just happened with my Dell XPS). Vulnerabilities and issues do not appear on a regular schedule, and just because 5 manufacturers get impacted, doesn't mean all will necessarily do so for all possible issues. Likewise, you should still contact MSI regarding your product because that way they will pay more attention to it. Remember MSI is not nearly as big as other manufacturers and they will take time pushing updates.

All of these concerns should also be sent to them, not just here in the forums. Here we can help you with issues, but if you also contact MSI you will at least raise awareness on the status of your machine.

Anyways, I do feel as senso pointed out, that you are maybe putting more value into BIOS updates than what it actually offers. As for drivers, it is what it is currently, but with your input you can help them do better with that line of products. I do recommend contacting them about their plans but more importantly, for software updates that you need.

So to answer your topic title- The P Creators series are very much new, they attack a niche segment and thus they might have the least amount of time spent updating the page. What can it be done? Contact them and voice your opinion on the matter and hopefully they will start changing their current situation.