Which has better thermals/cooling?

I am confused between MSI's two offerings at the time. One in my consideration is MSI Dominator Pro GT72VR 6RE and the second one is MSI GT63 Titan 8RF. I know these two are in the higher end of the spectrum. Apart from the overall screen size the Titan beats the Dominator pro in every aspect. Newest 8th gen processor, higher frequency RAM and little lighter. I don't prefer 17 inch to 15. G-Sync not a deal breaker for me at 120Hz.
But the confusion is which offers best cooling? Dominator has Cooler Boost 4 with 7 heat pipes I think and Titan has Cooler Boost 5 with 8 heatpipes. On paper, Titan blows the Domi away but I have seen some reviews on YouTube that Dominator offers better thermals. A gamer called DeadPhoenix86 plays all the games on Dominator pro while maintaining CPU temp below 50°C and GPU temp around 65°C (Fans maxed out). But in reviews I have seen about titan, the both CPU and GPU temps are hitting 70°C.
This video confuses me even further. Themps are in high 80s!

Please help me choose the right one among these two. Take as much time as possible but come up with clear and evident proofs. I really want the Titan. It also costs 150 bucks less than Dominator Pro buy the temps are confusing me.
Edit: Does the Titan have slower SATA SSD or the NVME one? MSI hasn't advertised about the SSD Storage on Titan product page!

 

What do you want to purchase the notebook for? Gamingn?

 

Of course yes! Just wanna know which has better cooling.

 

The thing is, the dominator has a way inferior CPU (6700hq), so obviously it will cool down much easier and will stay much cooler.

Personally, I would recommend the GT73 with a 7820HK, they are better for gaming than 8th gen 8750H's and are much easier to cool as well.

 

As a guy coming from 1st gen Intel i3 HD Graphics, gtx 1080 ti would be overkill for me. Which of the two laptops I have mentioned has greater longevity? I think the heat in the Titan might wear it down sooner than the Dominator Pro. Am I right?

 

Not really both are in a temperature range where it doesnt do much.

 

Okay then. I am going with the Dominator. I need that cooling above anything else. Only if it had i7 6700K instead of 6700HQ, the performance would have been on par with i5 8400. But no problem. Skylake i7 is a huge leap from i3 530.

 

But what' wrong with the drivers? The ones provided in MSI's website are extremely outdated. How can they drop support for such high end gaming laptops?! I also heard that Win 10 ver 1803 has incompatibility problems with Tobbi eye tracker and they are providing unofficial drivers which literally breaks most of it's features! What tf is wrong with MSI!!

 

That is absolutely false. the 6700K will destroy the 8400 in gaming, games do not care about core count as long u got 4 cores. All that matters is IPC.

Considering the cost, the GT 63 is a far better choice.

You can get drivers from an external site.

 

My bad! I had actually checked the cpu.userbenchmark where they showed that i7 6700k is slightly better than i5 8400. Anyway, thanks for your response. What do you have to say about MSI driver support? After all they are $2000+ machines. No joke!

 

MSI has great driver and BIOS support.

 

https://www.msi.com/Laptop/support/GT72VR-6RE-Dominator-Pro-Tobii
Apart from the BIOS, nothing else has been updated since mid 2017. It's been over a year now. And most of them even have drivers from 2016.

 

No need to update something that's working. The drivers may be 2 years old but there is nothing ti improve, hence no newer revisions are there.

 

https://help.tobii.com/hc/en-us/articles/360006182954
This article conveys sth else.

 

Not really, it basicially says Windows 10 Creators update ruined tobii eye. Which is nothing new, windows 10 CU broke so many software that it's almost comical. The drivers are absolutely fine. We talk about MSI drivers. not 3rd party software such as tobii eye.

To illustrate it even further, I got a GT 72 without tobii eye and never had any driver issues since 2015 when I got it.

 

It's also important to note that it's harder to cool the newer 8th gen CPUs, but it seems the gt63 doesn't have a problem with doing so. It's what I would lean towards personally.

 

It's best not to listen to danishblunts "Advice". He's usually wrong about many things and always acts like MSI is the best company in the world. He even attacked brother @Papusan claiming that he couldn't get a 8700K running at 5.2 ghz on a P870 and then when Papusan posted videos as proof, he ran away with his tail between his legs.

MSI's driver support is atrocious. The only thing that tend to get right is posting old versions of Nvidia drivers that actually work. Since they HAVE to since MSI advertises to gamers.

 

I do really like this from a support standpoint, if nothing else works, rolling back to the MSI video driver does.

 

Sure. Strange bro @Phoenix who handle put in MSI drivers and software for current models for the brothers in the forum is damn angry on MSI. And I haven't yet talked abot the firmware mess. See also http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/msi-gt75-titan-drivers.800622/page-125#post-10768276

Edit.
@Danishblunt Some reading stuff for you... See top of post #5 http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/gs65-stealth-or-dell-xps-15.821415/#post-10768975

Why continue post wrong info?

 

My ambient temperature is usually around 35 deg C. I can undervolt my CPU but liquid metal isn't my thing. Which processor do you think is gonna stay around/below 80 deg C during GAMING (Max fan speed is Okay). I know the 6700hq can stay below that without undervolting. But can 8750H w/ undervolting manage it?

 

ofc it can manage with undervolting. During gaaming the 8750H should stay around 70ish. heavy load mid 80s. Which is absolutely fine, but repaste is needed, not Liquid metal, but something like GCGelid, MX4 etc.

 

Are you sure? I can repaste myself but do MSI heatpipes and fans get easily removed without breaking anything?? I am talking specifically about the GT63 Titan 8RF which has 2 fans and 8 heatpipes. I really don't wanna stay outdated. The Coffee Lake series is a huge leap from Kaby Lake, let alone skylake. Another thing. Why hasn't this specific model got any (high) attention? On YouTube, only few are there and are mostly the gtx 1080 variant. Even notebook check has a small review (Not a through review at all) of this laptop unlike other MSI laptops. Is GT63 Titan 8RF any inferior than GT72VR Dominator Pro. More specifically is the Titan line up inferior compared to the Dominator Pro?
Again, I am a newbie in gaming laptops.

 

Youi don't want to stay outdated yet you consider a 6700HQ?

Because people would rather want throttling garbage thin and lights. Also it's superior to the dominator.

 

As I had said, cooling was in my mind primarily. But there really are some downsides of getting the Dominator Pro now. First of all it's no longer actively supported by MSI (Pretty evident from outdated drivers). Also you have to patch the VBIOS to stop the crash in the laptop during gameplay which downclocks the GPU and hits the frame rates by -10 to 15 FPS. Also Dominator Pro doesn't support Optimus technology which is gonna hit the battery life hard. It also has the G-Sync which is gonna further affect battery life. No need of that on a 120Hz panel. I don't think tobbi eye tracking would be any helpful during gaming. So instead of paying 2,099 pounds for the Dominator Pro for useless (for me) features, I should get the Titan for 1,949 pounds. Do you agree with me?

 

The dominator has a muxswitch which is superior to optimus in every way.
The drivers are still no issue because they are basicially finished.
The vBios thing is something you have just made up.
Tobii eye is only a thing for people who want to improve in competitive games.

Only reason why you should go for the titan is because it got better performance and still good temps, literally no other reason.

 

Oh really? I am not a noob.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...vr-gt62vr-gt72vr-reboot-crash-problem.804978/
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...nvspcaps64-exe-or-application-blocked.801238/
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ominator-pro-black-screen-issue.800343/page-3
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/msi-gt72vr-6re-constant-crashes-4401-nvlkmdm.798922/
https://forums.geforce.com/default/...-gt72vr-dominator-pro-keeps-failing/?offset=9

What about some video proofs?




Are these enough to prove that I am not making up anything?
Also, can you send me the link where mux switch is mentioned?

 

Another option would be the MSI 16L13 which uses the LGA 7700K and anything up to a GTX 1080. The cooling in that machine is fine but you need to buy from a reseller who will delid the CPU for you. If you only plan on gaming, having a 6700K/7700K is perfectly fine: my Clevo P870DM-G has a 6700K and its never phased by any of the games I play - though I can see why having a newer CPU would be a good thing. The only decent choice for 8th gen CPUs is the BGA MSIs or the 8700K in the newer P870s, but both of those are very expensive.

As for battery life, how much do you actually need? In web browsing my P870 will last a couple of hours easily, and that is with G Sync. Having a "desktop" CPU isn't a burden on battery life anymore, as many of them use the same power or less than a mobile chip while doing light tasks.

One more thing, what makes cooling so important to you? Are you worried about hardware failure, or do you simply wish for less noise? If its the hardware side that concerns you then i'd suggest going for something with an LGA CPU and MXM GPU for peace of mind.

 

Thanks for your suggestion bro. But that would be literally a overkill for me. Battery life should be at least 3hrs on Airplane mode for me. I don't need any more.
Coming to your second question. I want my temps to be below/around 80°C. I don't mind the fan noise. I will always crank up the fans to max during gaming. I just wanna be in the safe zone so that the laptop lasts me around 4-5 years. Will the GT63 Titan RF (not RG with 1080) with 8750H disappoint me?

 

Apparently you are because these issues are gone. They don't exist anymore, unless you try and purchase a 1st revision GT 72VR used on ebay where the user was literally to lazy to flash a new vBios provided by MSI on their card, which I highly doubt you are doing. Hence saying you have to patch vBios is something you have entirely made up.So before spreading misinformation you might want to read properly.


Here is the muxswitch, all it does is switch from dGPU to iGPU. Dno why you have difficulties figuring that information out.

Nevertheless should you not buy the GT72VR, it's WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY to outdated. There is literally no reason (especially at 2k USD) to purchase something that expensive to begin with when it's 2 generations behind.

For 2k USD you can easily purchase a GT73VR with a 7820HK, even considering a 6700HQ for 2KUSD is stupid.

 

I would still argue an LGA CPU has the potential to run cooler than BGA as they are better binned and can run at lower voltages. I can overclock my 6700K to 4.5GHz with a slight undervolt and during gaming it will not exceed 80 degrees. In most games it sits happily in the 60s or 70s. That said, you can also undervolt the BGA MSI CPUs and keep the temps down. The main difference is with an LGA CPU I can happy run the thing at 80-90 degrees and if the worst happens i'll be able to replace it - you can't do that with BGA. In general though, most CPUs are quite resilient to temperature: the i5 in my old Dell XPS ran for several thousand hours at over 90 degrees, yet its still working without issue. That is a replaceable CPU however, and I would not feel comfortable running a BGA one at those temps.

If i'm not mistaken, the 8750H is not unlocked - so you are at the mercy of turbo boost to do the overclocking for you. The base clock is only 2.2GHz, and I would not be happy with having to rely on turbo boost to give me decent enough clocks for gaming. Even an older HQ CPU would be better for gaming i'd argue, as you can tell it how quick you want it to run (though they are still not as well binned as LGA).

 

Well, I am happy to be proved wrong here. Again, SLI would be overkill. I am purchasing the GT63 Titan.

 

Further confusion in my mind! Arggh! I only have these two options. Can you please tell me which would be better among the ones I have mentioned in the very beginning? Dominator or Titan!!!!

 

Absolutely no. If you run the CPU at high temperatures, it's much more likely that you kill your VRM's on your mainboard rather than the CPU itself. Killing CPU without overvolting it is close to impossible.

 

Good choice. The GT 63 is a good notebook. Getting the 8750H + GTX 1070 should be extremely cool. remember to get either GT 63 repasted from the manufacturer or do it yourself, also undervolting the 8750H is needed to get better performance since your power limit is on 45W TDP.

 

Not necessarily, it depends how well cooled your VRM is, how much voltage you are pushing through it et cetera. Having a hot CPU doesn't always mean the VRM is strained, especially if its at stock speeds.

 

None!
Intel Core i7-8750H/ i7-8850H/ i9-8950H Coffee Lake
It’s time to call out laptop manufacturers for their ******** CPU throttling

Here we go if you want 15,6 inches laptop.
http://www.hidevolution.com/evoc-clevo-p750tm1-g-custom-built-gaming-laptop.html

Talk with @Donald@HIDevolution at HID

Sure... And the second gen AWbooks did not even come with fully unlocked Intel i7 BGA models.

 

Huh! Finally an answer. The final question: DOES IT THROTTLE?

 

I might consider this. Thanks for suggesting!

 

None 45w chips (i7-8750H) can run sustained max load on all 6 cores at 3.9GHz. And you have the silicon lottery. Not all can take same undervolt as well run with equal temp at same clocks and voltage.

You're welcome

 

45W on a 8750H? Ofc it throttles. If you want something that doesn't throttle then you need to get a GT 75 with a 8750H and GTX 1070

 

How doesn't that throttle with the exact same specs? Huh!

 

You mean the 8950HK?

 

Bigger cooling means LESS throttling.

Nope. Read the posts he quoted on.

 

For what you asked I voted for the 8th gen CPU and recommend undervolting, tuning the fan curve, using RTSS to limit FPS to display refresh, and you should be able to get a nicely running laptop - but it's going to be noisy - all the thin laptops are at load while gaming.

Those are two very different form factors, with the large frame being 2 generations behind in CPU releases - and only 4c/8t vs the thin and light model with 6c/12t.

Those are dynamically different loads in opposite cooling frames

The GT72 has better cooling, but it can thermal throttle too if it's not undervolted - tune the CPU voltage for least required, as most Intel guideline following BIOS's will overvolt the CPU to "guarantee" stability over variances in production CPU's.

The 8th gen CPU will also undervolt in the -150mV to -180mV range while the 6th gen's sweet spot is around -100mV.

You want to get the 6c/12t in a larger frame if you want to OC it, and if you want the highest performance OC'able i9-8950HK, you'll want an MSI GT75 or the new Acer Acer Helios 500 release that's getting good reviews:

Core i9 Done Right! - Acer Helios 500
Dave Lee
Review of the Acer Predator Helios 500. The most powerful gaming laptop from Acer. With an overclockable i9 - 8950HK, GTX 1070 and up to 64 gigs RAM, the Helios 500 delivers some crazy performance. This is one of the best performing laptops for the price. Excellent thermal performance with easily upgraded hardware. Acer did a fantastic job on this. It's not as durable as an Alienware device but it will be cheaper and lighter with awesome performance.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/acer-predator-helios-500-intel-nvidia.818249/#post-10767212

If you want another suggestion I'd recommend a model in the middle range sweet spot, the GS65:

MSI GS65 Stealth Thin - Lightest GTX 1070 Max-Q Laptop
MobileTechReview
Published on May 30, 2018
Lisa Gade reviews the MSI GS65 Stealth Thin, a very light and thin gaming laptop minus the gamer looks. It has a classy metal chassis and weighs just 4.1 lb. / 1.87 kg.

The GS65 starts at $1,799 with an NVIDIA GTX 1060 and the GTX 1070 Max-Q model (used in this review) starts around $2,000.

All configs have an Intel 8th gen Core i7-8750H 6 core, 45 watt CPU, a 144Hz matte non-touch IPS display, per key GRB backlit keyboard and an M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD (except the Best Buy model which has a SATA3 SSD).

The gaming and pro apps laptop houses up to 32GB DDR4 RAM, has two SSD slots, an ample battery and Killer WiFI and Ethernet.

It competes with the Gigabyte Aero 15X and Asus RG Zephyrus GM501.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...scussions-lounge.815216/page-78#post-10737992

 

Still wouldn't go for an 8750H, the temps may be fine but i'd much rather have proper control over my clocks / voltage etc. Even the unlocked BGA is a bit better, though still not as good as LGA. I'm sure many won't mind it though.

 

For many it's good enough to game on, work on, and not worry about twiddling knobs to get the best CPU performance.

Even on the poorly cooled laptops the 8750HQ is getting 30% better performance than the 7700HQ, of course it should be 50% better, but those are the limits imposed by poor cooling, power CTDP CPU's, like on the new Razer:

Razer Blade 2018 Review, Too Thin For a Six-Core CPU! (Apple Has Company)
Hardware Unboxed
Published on Jul 24, 2018

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...n-owners-lounge.817185/page-162#post-10769343

 

You can still do that Downclock and undervolt

 

Nope the 8750H.

@ TheSmilingSloth
because the GT 63 is limted to 45W TDP while the GT 75 has 200W TDP on the CPU unlocked. To run the 8750H at full speed @ 3.9ghz you'll need around 70-90W TDP.

 

@TheSmilingSloth
Sooooo much wrong info in this thread. Do NOT get the gt72vr 6re. There is like 95% chance you will need to cripple the gpu to make it work and msi will not help you at all. Mine got RMA'ed 3 times (non-tobii version) and msi finally replaced it with a gt75 8rg. Even if the gpu is fine (mine was amazing, good performer) there is a nice chance your cpu will be throttling in some scenarios like mine did due to poor motherboard/power design (pretty much reused since the first gt72 it seems), your keyboard might die, your display cable will die, your hinges will break.... all in all a total deal breaker since there are so much better options out there. Also, 6700HQ is totally outdated. Also, it DOES NOT have the gpu switch. The button was simply reused from old gt72s chassis and is a display on/off button in the gt72vr.
Also, I wasn't alone in my gt72vr issues and at least 3 other people ended up getting rid of it/money back. There are at least other 20 or more people with severe issues with gpu/crashing/throttling (just from the forums)

Now to the 8750H: if the cooling is similar to the gt75, it will not thermal throttle even on stock paste (granted you fix the voltages). Mine runs at 3.9GHz stable with max 80 degrees (and over 30 degrees room temp) UNLESS I run prime95, then the clocks bounce around a bit on one core at a time, with dips to 2.6GHz, but eventually all cores settle at 3.6-3.7GHz with steady 90W power draw and about max 79 degrees on coolest core and 84 on hottest. I hope msi wasn't as dumb as to make the gt63 any less good. So if the choice is gt72vr X gt63, please do yourself the favor and don't waste your money and time like I did on the gt72vr.

EDIT: ps. there is no VBIOS which can fix the faulty gt72vr's. All those things do is limit the voltage and frequency along with it on the gpu. It only has a slight impact on fps and ofc you can oc it afterwards... but it isn't "fixed". It's just hidden. If you are lucky and only have a gpu issue, you can get the gpu replaced after some arguing with msi, but if you end up with the issue I did, there is no fix. Maybe a new mb but seeing as msi replaced/gave money back to all that I know had that issue, I am not very confident about claiming they found a fix for it.

 

I am dead.