WiFi 6E Introduced

Today the Wi-Fi Alliance introduced new terminology to distinguish forthcoming Wi-Fi 6 ahead of CES 2020 that starts next week.

Current Wi-Fi 5 (802.11ac) and Wi-Fi 6 (802.11ax) devices use 2.4GHz and 5GHz radio frequencies to transmit relatively huge quantities of data at homes, businesses, and schools. Wi-Fi 6E extends the latter standard’s support to include adjacent 6GHz frequencies, with 14 additional 80MHz channels and seven additional 160MHz channels to serve as extra wireless pipes for data.

New adapters and routers coming?

https://www.wi-fi.org/discover-wi-fi/wi-fi-certified-6

 

****. I just bought a Wi-Fi 6 router...

 

Yup, just before a major electronics products conference is really the worst time to go out and purchase new hardware... I've got lists and I can't act on them until I hear what's what for 2020 release, starting with CES 2020.

 

and usual with technology, now it's a yesterware router

 

To be honest none of the current WiFi 6 routers even support all the draft AX features, plus AX finalization is taking longer than expected. Some newer 2nd gen Qualcomm chipset based routers/APs are only now coming out on the market with support for all draft specs. I remember WhatsThePoint said a while back that maybe they can be added in later but as I suspected most of the first gen half hazard AX implementation routers won’t get all the features and even if they do get some additional features it may be in a non working/detrimental hack job fashion.


Best to wait like a year minimum when a new standard is announced to actually get a full spec product. Initial testing with a Broadcom based Mesh AP on SmallNetbuilder wasn’t very promising with at least the Uplink OFDMA. Then again manufacturers these days just seem good at including things just to tick boxes than to properly implement new features in a proper working manner just like Broadcom’s mess with MU-MIMO earlier.

Hopefully by the time actual 6E routers appear, all the standard AX features will be implemented in those new chipsets.

 

I wait til there is actual hardware not pre-post hardware. Also if your devices aren't WiFi 6 your wasting good money that can be first spent on hardware upgrades first.

 

Wi-Fi 6E isn’t here yet—but Broadcom is clearly banking on it
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/202...closer-to-reality-with-broadcoms-new-chipset/

 

I haven't heard, has the FCC approved the 6ghz unlicensed use by "Wifi 6E" already? I thought it was still up in the air, as there are licensed usage in that proposed frequency range:

Wi-Fi Alliance Announces Wi-Fi 6E Moniker for 802.11ax in the 6 GHz Spectrum
by Ganesh T S on January 6, 2020 3:35 PM EST
https://www.anandtech.com/show/1532...-6e-moniker-for-80211ax-in-the-6-ghz-spectrum

" Unlicensed Operation in the 6 GHz Band
The FCC has been considering the opening up of the 6 GHz band (essentially, the 1.2 GHz unlicensed spectrum span just above the currently used 5 GHz band) for unlicensed operation.

Wideband unlicensed channels of 160 MHz and more may become essential to achieve expected performance from 802.11ax, 802.11be, 4G LTE, and 5G NR in unlicensed spectrum. Opening up a continuous 1200 MHz chunk will enable substantial amount of new bandwidth over multiple wide bandwidth channels.

Unfortunately, even though there are no currently unlicensed users of the 6 GHz band, certain fixed wireless point-to-point long-range deployments are licensed to utilize it.

Wi-Fi platform vendors such as Qualcomm and Broadcom have been confident of working with those users to prevent any interference.

Their key message to the licensed incumbents is that any Wi-Fi deployment in the 6 GHz band would use LPI (low-power indoor) operation and can also implement AFC (automated frequency coordination).

LPI operation, for example, may impose restrictions on the total EIRP (effective isotropically radiated power) and PSD (power spectral density) for Wi-Fi devices. This will prevent interference due to low power levels and substantial building losses."

That's not that long ago... I haven't heard of any updates, so maybe we shouldn't get excited about it until it's allowed by the FCC explicitly? Has anyone seen any new ruling as of late?

This has been going on since at least 2018, and it looks like it's still not through the process of approval through the FCC:

FCC filing: Support for full-width 6 GHz Wi-Fi gathers momentum
[BREAKING NEWS] by Claus Hetting | February 13, 2020
https://wifinowglobal.com/news-and-...-for-full-width-6-ghz-wi-fi-gathers-momentum/

"...The group – which includes Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Comcast, Charter, Broadcom, and many more – say they “urge the Commission to designate all 1200 megahertz of the 6 GHz band for unlicensed use, with appropriate measures to ensure incumbent licensees are protected from harmful interference.” The filing comes in response to opposing forces advocating for first clearing and since licensing parts of the 6 GHz band. Read the full filing here.

The FCC is expected by most to issue a final ruling on the 6 GHz band within the first half of this year. "

Note this quote of their letter to the FCC:

"Yet no new mid-band unlicensed spectrum suitable for Wi-Fi has been made available in the United States since before the smartphone was introduced."

That's a long time without an allocation even though it's been asked for many times in the interim. It would be unusual for the FCC to override the wishes of the current 6ghz license holders quickly, a clearing process could last for years.

The answer by Ajit Pai to the Senator Murkowski's request on 6ghz allocation seems definitive, that the FCC will protect incumbent license holders 6ghz allocation for technical reasons if they exist, not political pressure:

January 24, 2020
Chairman Pai’s Response to Senator Murkowski Regarding 6 GHz

• Chairman Pai’s Response to Senator Murkowski
• Letter from Senator Murkowski

https://www.fcc.gov/chairman-pais-letters-congress

We all know how Ajit Pai ignores public demands, taking his guidance from industry influence over incumbent public requests, so the enthusiasm from the Wifi Industry and their level of expectation may be warranted.

Given the potential for a changing of the guard coming in early 2021, Ajit Pai may be motivated to comply with the industry requests for Wifi expansion while he can...

 

Qualcoomm introduced Advanced Mobile Wireless Connectivity Portfolio with 6GHZ WiFi 6E and Bluetooth 5.2

https://www.qualcomm.com/news/relea...wd01XNEVRbE5ZTHBjd1JsZG1rNmw2U2tjVGJ2Q1QifQ==

 

The newly introduced 865+ mobile phone snapdragon chipset from Qualcomm has support for WiFi 6E

According to Qualcomm, the first devices to rock the Snapdragon 865+ Mobile Platform will launch in Q3 2020

https://www.qualcomm.com/news/relea...ounces-snapdragon-865-plus-5g-mobile-platform

 

Android tablets are rare now that Chromebooks have mostly taken over that sector

Sammobile is reporting the specs of the upcoming Samsung S7+ tablet to have the new Snapdragon 865 Plus thus it will have WiFi 6E and 5G.

My 12.4" Pro tablet from 2014 still works perfectly but sadly stopped getting updates long ago.
I opened it up and replaced the battery about 2 years ago.

S7 duo of tablet may get introduced on August 5th along with other Samsung devices.

https://www.sammobile.com/news/exclusive-samsung-galaxy-tab-s7-plus-specs/

 

Depends, the 865+ doesn’t necessarily mean the 6900 WiFi chipset has to be a part of it. Samsung does pair the Snapdragons with Broadcom WiFi chips in their Galaxy phones for example. So they could easily source a BCM 6E part for WiFi unless QCA component pricing is competitive.

 

I understood the 865 Plus press release to mean the 6900 is baked in to the SoC.

 

It’s optional hence why they said FastConnect 6900 compatibility.

 

It looks like Asus may be the 1st with a WiFi 6E router in December this year.
https://rog.asus.com/articles/networking/rog-rapture-gt-axe11000-intro/

 

Qualcomm Wi-Fi 6E mesh deployment

Oct 27, 2020 SAN DIEGO
Qualcomm Unveils Immersive Home Platform for Next-Generation Mesh Wi-Fi Networks
https://www.qualcomm.com/news/relea...sive-home-platform-next-generation-mesh-wi-fi

BTW,The physical layer (PHY) rate. It is the maximum speed that data can move across a wireless link between a wireless client and a wireless router

 

Intel Wi-Fi 6E AX210

Ordering Code AX210.NGWG.NV

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/204836/intel-wi-fi-6e-ax210-gig.html

 

https://www.compsource.com/buy/AX210NGWGNV/Intel_211/ -- $13.69 / $7.99 shipping

https://www.zones.com/site/product/index.html?id=108796677&referer=cart - $12.99 / no stock

Seems to be one of the only places with it listed for sale. Though I don't think anyone has any tangible inventory yet as it's listed as drop shipped and the other site had a 100 piece requirement / no stock.

Now if the alliance would just certify more 6E devices it would be nice to avoid 5Ghz all together in dense environments.

 

I don't think it's been released yet.
I heard sometime in January 2021.

 

Looks like a better deal than AX200/201 according to these prices by 25%+

I'm working on a 2.5gbps WIFI6 setup this week w/ 2.5gbps backhaul from the AP to test out a theory on just how fast you can push things over a AX200 2x2 through a 4x4 AP internally. Also testing beyond 1gbps throughput with overprovisioning on a cable modem through WIFI since prior setups bottlenecked at 1gbps on either the WAN/LAN side.

CM (MB8600) <2 links to exceed 1gbps> BYOR <5gbps link> POE (procet) @ 10gbps <5gbps link> AP (Zyxel) w/ 2.5gbps uplink (rated up to 2.4gbps @ 5ghz / 160mhz)

Some testing on other AP's are showing a max around 1.3gbps but, their testing doesn't really spell out source/destination/path information to show whether they're limited by AP / NIC / POE / Router / etc.

 

The AX201 can hit upwards of close around 1500 Mbps downlink with about 1400 Mbps sustained on some laptops like the XPS 13 9310. The chassis/antenna layout, router and test environment in general can all have a big impact. Max I’ve gotten is around 1200-1300 Mbps sustained on a few Latitudes new and old using the AX200. My Inspiron 7577 was about the same. Usual sustained speeds were closer to ~1200 Mbps, pretty similar to the 9260AC. I’m using an RAX120 as an AP. Makes sense as realworld gain on 5Ghz AX is usually less than 10% over AC. Also 2.4 GHz is where the real gain is with AX at a doubling of performance in my testing

I don’t think you’re gonna get above 1500-1550 Mbps at best (peak for a few secs) and probably sustained no more than ~1300-1400 Mbps at best. Most laptop reviews and other tests point that to being around the ceiling.

Easiest way to to test is simply transfer files from a NAS to your laptop assuming NAS has a multi-gig or standard 10 Gbps port. If not then an SSD to the router USB port can be target for transfers to your laptop. The RAX80/120/200 and their Asus equivalents are fast enough on the storage side to not be a bottleneck at least on the read side.


Here’s my 9260AC vs AX200 test chart from two years ago testing on the RAX80 and RAX200.

 

Well, I've seen those tests and working through Layer 1 all the way from Cable Modem to AP @ 2.5gbps or higher should yield better results internally and external should max out around 1200mbps with over provisioning.

I built a router/nas/dvr/firewall/raid/etc. to consolidate things from several devices into a single device + modem and it produces some great results besides the bottleneck being the ISP. The card I'm currently using with hostapd won't configure for 160mhz as a host device but as a client it will produce a higher throughput. I have 0 latency between the current setup and laptop. File moves average ~650mbps but I know if I could get 160mhz working with this card / hostapd it should be able to push double that but, for whatever reason it doesn't want to sync up at the max 1.7gbps phy rate due to some bugs in the program running the AP through QWA-AC2600.

Either way bumping wired speeds to 5gbps through the new NIC / USB dongle should net 4gbps or so w/ usb overhead. The server will have a 5gbps card in it going to the POE which for $15 more does up to 10gbps and then from there into the AP @ 2.5gbps. 2 links to the cable modem in LACP in the past has produced speed tests wired up 1250mbps IIRC. When I had a R7800 hooked up I got it steadily pushing 960-980 mbps over wifi due to the bottleneck being it only had 1gbps ports on it. Most of the consumer junk only have 1 2.5 port on them and you have to choose either WAN/LAN and then you're stuck @ 1gbps throughput in one direction or the other.

So, in theory moving from hostapd back to a commercial product will allow a couple of things to improve +160mhz / +2.5gbps and not having to deal with some limitations like DFS kicking the bandwidth down. The R7800 didn't complain about DFS but hostapd does which kills it from completing startup.

While I was looking at AP's I came across a couple of candidates under $300. Found 1 that had 2.5 port on it but the guy selling his was using a 1gbps POE injector with it but also that particular AP didn't have 160mhz as an option for whatever reason the MFR didn't include it in the settings. Turns out the price difference in the end is only about $20 from the one I went with that will be here in a couple of days along with the 5G card for the server.

All in all it's going to run about $600 for all of the parts to overhaul things from 1G to 5G between the NIC (4 port), AP, USB Dongle 5G, POE @ 10G, and a D-plug splitter cable to keep things tidy between the Server PSU & POE injector.

In comparison to buying a 6 Router w/ a single 2.5G port ($300+) / Switch that's at least 2,5G @ $110 / NIC supporting 2.5G+ ~$45-$200+.. It adds up quickly and if you're not paying attention to the complete path you hit a roadblock or two along the way like you NAS not being able to go NBASE-T in the either 1G/10G scenario w/o implementing a switch to provide the negotiation between devices. In this case I'm freeing up 1 slot to use for something else down the road if 10G AP's come along I'll have room for a 10G NIC while being able to retain the 5G card until a better 10G dongle comes along w/o the price of TB tax being added on.

But, looking over the PHY rates and how they chain together a single 1x1 PHY @ 1200mbps / 5GHZ / 160mhz or 2x2 should be able to double it to 2400mbps which the card is capable of / the AP is capable of. The other issue with consumer routers / ap's is the way the radios are setup and over stating the bandwidth due to the issue of other devices taking up bandwidth / streams if you're only running 2x2 form the router / ap vs 4x4 for each band for an 8x8 configuration overall. In theory you could have 2 laptops @ 2x2 running a full 2400mbps w/o issue on a 4x4 configuration but, then you're still stuck with the 2.5gbps PHY for anything that has to deviate to the LAN other than WIFI to WIFI and pushing your other devices to 2.4ghz to reduce the interrupts and reductions in bandwidth.

 

As of today only 3 countries have released the 6ghz band to Wi-Fi
United States(released the entire 1.2 GHz of band
United Kingdom(released the lower 500 MHz portion of the spectrum)
South Korea(release the entire 1.2 GHz of band (5,925 MHz – 7,125 MHz) to unlicensed use and added up to seven new 160 MHz Wi-Fi bands)

 

The Intel 6E AX210 is on ebay

 

Yes, but, they neglected the biggest selling point of 6ghz with the same AX200 specs listed. Maybe they're spinning BT 5.2? SMH

 

I'm seeming nothing for the specs on those eBay listings.

Wake me up when I can buy a 6E router/AP. Really... the DFS limitations with Wifi-6(non-E) make 160MHz channels effectively useless in the USA.

 

When I was using a Netgear R7800 it would ignore the DFS stuff and connect at full speed 160mhz but, the bottleneck would be the 1GE port it had to pass through to get anywhere other than WIFI. I'm poking around in the CLI of an AP and there are some options to force things in one direction or another when it comes to DFS and Dynamic Channel Selection it's hopefully just a matter of the right combo to make it bypass the checks.

 

You can use 160 Mhz despite DFS it won't drop you from those channels unless a priority utility is detected like a weather radar etc or maybe unless you're near an airport or something. Don't be that person that tries to bypass those checks.

As for 6E only router close to being out is the new version of the Asus AX11000 , its effectively nothing more than the same BCM wifi chip in current BCM based routers like the RAX200/80 and Asus AX88U/AX11000 but with new amplifiers supporting 6E, and that BCM chip is already a bit wonky with OFDMA enabled at times on current routers, so pretty much still gen 1 chip. I'd wait for more refined chips before jumping in. Whoever jumped in and got 1st gen AX routers effectively was already beta testing as some of the key features were either missing or only partially functional at times in a detrimental way. Even Qualcomm for example the IPQ807X series in the Netgear RAX120 and Asus AX89U was supposed support most AX features but in reality it didn't support uplink OFDMA and uplink MU if I recall, only the newer v2 version supports those.

Probably best to wait for AX210 to hit proper retail channels before purchase to avoid things like factory test fail units etc, not common but happens. Also its gonna be a while till you get a proper 6E router anyway for purchase so better to wait. Lastly it remains to be seen if any antenna changes are required in laptops, as you may get worse performance in the new frequency range if the antennas aren't properly attuned for the full 6 Ghz band. Lower 6Ghz is close enough to the 5Ghz band so some of the lower channels may be ok.

 

I ordered only 1 AX210 from an ebay seller I've previously purchased from so no big lose if it's a dud.
I got a dud 1550 straight from Rivet on Amazon so there's never a 100% guarantee but Rivet quickly replaced the card.
From China requires a bit more on the side of being lucky

What I'm also waiting for is an AX210 in an Intel desktop PCIe adapter with proper antennas if required.
I presently have this one:
https://www.amazon.com/Killer-Wi-Fi-AX1650-PCIe-Addin/dp/B0892NY1N9/ref=sr_1_1?crid=18ECBM09E3PVL&dchild=1&keywords=killer+ax1650+pcie&qid=1604503872&sprefix=Killer+AX1650,aps,485&sr=8-1

BTW,any CNVi 6E upgrade for the AX201

 

What's the link? I wanna order one. Will it work on my Alienware Area-51m R2? same socket as the previous AX200/Killer 1650?

 

Yeah its the same m.2 format it will fit/work. You may or may not get good performance/reception on the 6Ghz channels depending on if the laptop antennas are properly attuned for it, especially at the higher number channels, the ones closer to the 5 Ghz channels would potentially not be affected much. As far as I know most laptop antennas are tuned for dual mode covering 2.4/5 ghz ranges. One of you intrepid explorers could test and find out for us.

Quite a few on eBay:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr..._sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=ax210

 

Those are AX201 not AX210

 

Look again definitely the first 10 or 12 are AX210s, the ones labeled as sponsored...

Example, from one of those top 10 from the previous link, even the card in the image has the AX210 label sticker:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-AX21...010429?hash=item3feceec43d:g:vzcAAOSwz7Jfok5L

 

Ordered and repped j00. Thanks

It will arrive in one month. Bloody hell (didn't wanna pay $30 USD for expedited shipping that's absurd)

 

AX210 I ordered with same delivery estimates.

So,which will arrive first,this AX210 or a 6E router.Probably the card before a router.

The Asus AXE11000 still looks like it will be the 1st to ship?

 

I received tracking number on my order.Standard Shipping
11/05 Tracking shows my AX210 departed regional distribution center yesterday
11/06 2230 PM Now in HK

 

If you're lucky they'll ship it airpak and it will only take a week instead of a month to arrive.

My best experience was w/ FedEx and it got here in a week.

Worst... I sent something back USPS priority and it got lost and had to file a claim. Good thing I upped the insurance on it outbound.

 

The carrier is listed as Orange Connex

 

Connex = Ship = Slow

For more info on the CN side https://t.17track.net/en#nums= works well for most shipments.

 

Carrier states package should arrive in the US in about 7 days.
I think it will be closer to 2 weeks judging from past experience with Orange Connex

EDIT:New estimated delivery Nov 17-Nov19
11/10 still in limbo somewhere
11/10 2030PM Package with AX210 from China arrived at Regional Distribution Center Avenel New Jersey USA

Anyone else getting shipping updates?

 

Intel Launches Its First Wi-Fi 6E-Capable Wireless Card tomshardware.com | Today

Intel has launched its first WiFi 6E-capable M.2 wireless card, the Intel Wi-Fi 6E AX210. As of writing, we're only seeing it shipping from China. It comes in a M.2 2230 form factor and supports both the 802.11ac and 802.11ax (Wi-Fi 6 & Wi-Fi 6E) protocols. If you have a laptop or desktop motherboard with an M.2 WiFi module, this M.2 card will fit right in.

 

Got a AX200 and i'm happy with it

The difference from AC protocol is night and day

 

My Intel AX210 has arrived in the US last night from China at the Regional Distribution Center in Avenel New Jersey.I hope I get it by the week end.
11/12 1430PM parcel now in Texas about an hour away at carrier distribution center.
11/13 6:30AM parcel from China now at my local post office in 9 days after ordering
11/14 9:10AM USPS Out For Delivery

 

Besides the release of the 6ghz spectrum the other good news is that after years of deliberations the FCC last week adopted new rules for the 5.9 GHz (5.850-5.925 GHz) band, which for 20 years has been left largely unused by its previous occupant, the automotive industry (for DSRC). The lower 45 MHz of spectrum will now be reallocated to Wi-Fi, which means that a non-DFS 160 MHz Wi-Fi channel will be available in the 5 GHz band.

Source: https://wifinowglobal.com/news-and-...9-ghz-rules-unlocking-gigabit-wi-fi-in-5-ghz/

 

Qualcomm announces the new Snapdragon Mobile processor SD888 that will appear in phones in Q1 2021.
The SD888 supports W-Fi 6E,Bluetooth 5.2 and Quickcharge 5
The has a new X60 5G modem.
Quickcharge 5 can charge a completely exhausted 4500mAh battery in 15 minutes or to 50% in 5 minutes.

 

Newegg has put a $550 price on the Asus AXE11000 6E router.
It is not in stock yet.
Newegg is not the shop it used to be.
https://www.neweggbusiness.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9B-33-320-478

 

It's basically the old AX11000 but with new outer shell and 6ghz capable RF Amplifiers, same CPU & WiFi chipset/hardware otherwise. Just mentioning in case anyone is thinking of getting it just to replace their AX11000 for reasons other than 6E.

 

They're a last resort option for me. They pale in comparison to other companies at this point but in the past they were a good source for obscure items you couldn't find anywhere else. They used to have some benefits and perks but those have been whittled away over the years.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08NSSJNV1 $24.99 w/ Prime same day shipping

 

They still have quite few good deals like the Asrock AMD EPYC 3251 SoC board with dual 10Gbe interfaces that I wanted which normally sells for $840-1000 practically everywhere else but it is at times ~$700 on Newegg with limited time instant rebate/coupon code for $135 off that occurred twice so far, when I was about to buy it.

Newegg isn’t always all that bad, granted I don’t use it often, just need to look at the sales/limited time discount codes on stuff you want, their best deals often don’t always show up on the email ads but show the codes directly on the site under the item you want to buy. Their service/support line is usually still pretty responsive.

Overall though I usually traverse multiple sites as there’s no single go to place in my experience depending on what electronics/computer hardware I want to buy and Amazon itself for one often times can be quite overpriced. I also look at alternatives like business sales sites like Provantage (for my Intel X710-T2L Multigig Ethernet adapter, and Intel WiFi adapters) or official resellers for better deals on certain items like when I bought my Zyxel XS-1930-10 Multigig switch it was like $80-100 cheaper from a US Zyxel reseller than any where else (they usually deal with enterprise customers and were surprised I called them lol) and shipping was fast, not to mention they were one of the few places it wasn’t back ordered.