Alienware Area-51 m15x price drop

I just picked up a Area-51 m15x for under $2000.00, the prices have come way down and with the processor and graphics refreshes the performance is up from all of the reviews. With the selected GPU and Processor I should get better battery life without giving too much up in performance. So if you have been thinking about it, now is the time to jump. I chose the 1440x900 because I will use this for work as well and I cannot deal with the font size on my Dell 1530 1080p. Now if it will just get of of Phase 8 and ship already!!!!!!! Check out the specs below....

Design & Display: Silver Ripley Design
Display: 15.4" WideXGA+ 1440 x 900 LCD (720p) with Clearview Technology
AlienFX®: Alienware® AlienFX® System Lighting - Blue
Video/Graphics Card: 512MB ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD 3870
Processor: Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T9300 2.5GHz (6MB Cache 800MHz FSB)
Operating System (Office software not included): Windows Vista® Home Premium (64-bit Edition) with Service Pack 1
Notebook Tuners and Remotes: Without Media Center Remote Control or TV Tuner
Memory: 4GB« Dual Channel DDR2 SO-DIMM at 667MHz – 2 x 2048MB
System Drive: 320GB 7,200RPM (16MB Cache) w/ Free Fall Protection
Optical Drives : 8x Dual Layer Burner (DVD±RW, CD-RW)
Wireless: Internal Intel® Wireless 4965 a/b/g/Draft-N Mini-Card
Sound Card : Internal High-Definition Audio with surround sound
Keyboard Options: AlienFX® Illuminated Keyboard – Exclusive Design
Warranty: 1-Year AlienCare Onsite Service and 24/7 Toll-Free Phone Support
AlienRespawn: AlienRespawn v2.0 Recovery DVD – Windows Vista® Edition
Alienware Extras: Alienware® Mesh Cap
Alienware Extras: Alienware® Mobile Binder
Alienware Extras: Alienware® Personalized Nameplate
Alienware Extras: Owner Identification Card
Alienware Extras: Area-51® m15x Protective Cloth Sleeve
Alienware Extras: Area-51® m15x Keyboard Diagram Overlay
Alienware Extras: Area-51® m15x Smooth Mylar Touchpad

 

Googling Sager 8662 and specing it would would probably upset you greatly.

 

I think that most people miss the inherent problems in putting those type of components in a 15.4" platform. The graphics card and processing power that clevo and sager put into their systems are really designed for large 17" platforms which are able to dissipate the heat generated by those components. I have looked at all of the alternatives in the 15.4" laptops and my biggest concern is that, while they are cheaper, they are not designed properly to handle the heat requirements while the m15x is. Remember that alienware moved to designing their own systems starting with the m15x and m17x just for this reason as the previous Clevo platforms were not properly able to handle those requirements. Being an engineer myself I get really hopped up on the actual engineering behind the system and I beleive the design of the apple aluminum macbook pro and the m15x are the best designed 15.4' platform on the market. When it comes to the price, the m15x is the best bet if you are running a windows platform. IMHO.

 

Like I said, google Sager 8662. If you are telling me that the M15X has had fewer heat/build issues than the 8662, you really need to re-do your research.

 

The sager 8662 uses the new nvidia260m gtx... brand new... and it is not designed for a 15.4" platform. Nvidia would only recommend that card for a 17" platform. Given that the combination of platforms that Sager and Clevo put out with extremely fast refreshes the number of owners of a specific platform is just not there so we are not going to see the same results as a platform such as the m15x. Again, I am suspect of any and all platforms which grab the latest technology and shove it in a 15.4" platform. Just because you can doesn't mean you should... again, IMHO

 

What about a m6400 covet? Pretty powerful and RGB LED screen available

 

The covet is a very large platform and would be able to handle most anything as far as mobile designed graphics and cpu chips/chipsets. It is pretty expensive and while it is great for CAD/Video work etc, for some reason the initial reports on performance were subpar for the price and components. I would assume that those issues have or will be fixed through bios updates. Personally I think you get the best bang for your buck when new laptops go through a refresh, as the price will drop substantially by that time and the components will be next gen.

 

I am not an expert here, but I would think that the m15x would have less heat issues than the 8662 as the m15x has a seperate fan and heatsink for the CPU and another seperate fan and heatsink for the GPU. I believe that the 8662 uses only one fan with seperate heatsinks, but then again it could be a more effcient fan, but I have no clue. Just posting what I observe. God Bless

 

Ill go ahead and back up alienware on this one. When the machine first came out there were issues that were fixed with a bios update. The fans were not coming on and cooling down the components so they were dropping there clocks and seriously affecting performance. Given that the m15x has such a long life cycle we can expect that over time these issues are fixed, as this one was. What does concern me is manufacturers that put in components that are not designed for their laptops and have such a quick lifecycle that problems do not get fixed. From an engineering point of view, I would have to say that the highest end Clevos and Sagers are disposable and they are designed to be replaced yearly.

 

How can you call them out when Alienware also puts the 9800M GT in the m15x?

There is no company which designs better cooling solutions for its notebooks than Clevo. This is a proven fact, one easily ascertained with a bit of research. You see the highest levels of tech in their notebooks because of how the company's high level of engineering prowess. Who else is putting desktop quads and Core i7 processors in 17" notebooks.

Clevos are neither "disposable" or cheaply made. I'm sorry to sound harsh, but you're clueless on the matter. I'm neither ignorant or a fanatic of Clevo, but I truly dislike misinformation.

My GPU at stock never goes above 80 degrees Celcius. It truly is one beast of a fan.

 

Look for reports of overheating 8660s vs reports of overheating M15X. You will notice that 8660s heat issues are mostly related to the HDD, where M15X is related to the GPU/CPU.

I am now convinced that this thread is pointless. Firstly, who are YOU to determine that the GT260 is not suitable for 15.4" platforms? I have not seen Nvidia release such a statement, have you? And would you not argue the use of the 9800M GT/8800M GTX in the M15X as being similar to the use of the GT260M in the 8662?

Secondly, the bolded statement is something I find hilarious.

Are you sure that there are, as you call it "number of owners of a specific platform is just not there"? The M15X has been out for about 6 months longer than the 8660, which has been out for less than a year. So, according to you, refreshes, if done too quickly, are a bad thing, correct? Well, in that case, the M15X is perfect for you. It only took AW several months to fix the GPU/CPU issue and the build quality issue. OH WAIT, they haven't fixed the build quality issue. But hey, you like long product lifetimes. Plenty of time for AW to work on that problem. Or perhaps the poor hinge quality in the M15X an endering engineering quirk? Since you seem to enjoy looking at products from an engineering point of view.

Good day, gentlemen.

The thing is, I don't disagree with most of your original post. The M15X has dropped immensely in pricing. That is a fact. HOWEVER, there have been no CPU refreshes, and the GPU refresh is a simple Nvidia rebadge.

 

Sorry for coming across as an . I am referring to the 15.4" models which companies shove these high end parts into. The 17" laptops usually handle them fine but with the smaller chassis many of these laptops just do not hold up without external cooling etc. I even went down to a T9300 and the 3870HD with the m15x so I am not pushing the envelope in regards to wattage etc. For the gamers and tweakers I can see the benefit of a system such as yours but for people who want it all and are not into upgrading or fixing their systems I think the m15x and apples are the best designed for longevity etc.

 

Regarding the 260M GT... NVIDIA is the one that recommends them for 17" platforms just as ATI recommends that the 4870 is used in 17" platforms. And if you do your research you will find that many of the higher end notebook resellers that rebrand these systems often put in there own upgraded cooling solutions because the stock cooling will not allow the laptop to effectively meet the 3 year upgradeable warranties these companies offer.

 

If you do your research, you will notice that Sager DOESN'T. Sager adheres strictly to the components as tested by the manufacturer, Clevo. On the other hand, certain Clevo resellers will definitely offer their own solutions for use, particularly to support components NOT officially supported by Clevo, i.e. KNB. I am actually fairly curious as to which resellers you have observed doing as KNB has, as most do not bother with it, merely including these components without upgrading stock cooling, i.e. Eurocom. Nonetheless, the 9800M GT and X9100 owners of the 8660 have not experienced any hardware issues yet. Clevo chose to withdraw support for the 9800M GT and 44W processors in the M860TU, as they felt the product would not be sustainable with the use of these components. However, there were still a number of resellers offering the unit with the option, who had no issue with selling it as such. The fact that Clevo was willing to remove that option indicates that they care enough about their customers and products that they would rather go for slightly less performance in exchange for greater lifespan.

You have still failed to address the use of the 8800M GTX/9800M GT in the M15X. Considering the GT260M is made with a smaller die, it is likely to run cooler than the existing 9800M GT. As for the Nvidia recommendation, kindly provide some form of evidence, if you please, as I have mentioned earlier.

Get this clear though, by no means do I think Clevo makes perfect products. A brief look at the D900Ts would demonstrate the falsity of such a claim.

There are a few advantages the M15X has over the 8660/8662. The main reasons include battery life and looks (which are subjective). On the other hand, the 8660/8662 has its own set of advantages, looks (as again, subjective), performance, fewer complaints about heat/build issues. Price is now much closer than before with the M15X price adjustments, particularly if you do not go for fully loaded configurations.

 

Nvidia and ATI documentation from there websites both refer to 17" platforms and not 15.4" in there errata and docs. But my point is getting lost here. My point is that the m15x had bios issues that were fixed, and the system has 2 fans with separate sinks and pipes for the cpu and gpu in order to maintain lower operating temperatures than the other systems out there. I have not seen any other machines with stock cooling utilizing a 15.4" chassis that is advanced as the m15x except for the aluminum macbooks which are able to dissipate heat across the entire chassis.

Now... the whole thread was started because i think it is a good time to by the m15x. And I still think that is true.

 

Let jdeclue purchase his overpriced AW and stop arguing with him, it's useless.

 

The absolute ONLY advantage that I see with the M15x is that it's smaller and lighter than the Sager NP8662. Everything else is atrocious - outdated and overpriced hardware for NO reason whatsoever. I'm not a Clevo fanboy by any means and I personally wouldn't buy the NP8662 because it's too big for me, but you are making a colossal mistake if you are in the market for a powerful, good quality 15.4" gaming notebook and you choose the M15x because of your lack of understanding.

 

The bottom of this webite may help, though it may not be *offical*


http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_gtx_gts_m_series.html#/overview/

 

Wow this is crazy. This is a forum for notebook deals and as such the current price for the m15x is almost half of what it used to be. At this time it is a good deal for people who are here to look for deals.

As to the rest... I am sorry to say that if you wish to choose a laptop because of what is jammed in it (going by purely specs) then you do not understand the inherent issues with shoving all of those parts in there. There is a reason in the business world that we do not purchase short lifecycle cutting edge machines... because we have to support them. As to the m15x, alienware is a reputable company that has made a great laptop in the 15.4" package... NOT 17" for those you have HP, DELL, GATEWAY, CLEVO etc. this is about a nice, portable 15.4 package that can be transported easily and still has pizazz and the ability to game.

You know there is a reason the m15x has received so many accolades in the media and was ranked as the best 15.4" model by so many magazines... you have to go beyond specs and look at the actual engineering behind the machine.

 

I don't understand why you are so adamant about the superb "engineering" of the M15x. You seem to have a very misinformed sense of the reality of that notebook's endless list of problems, and as mentioned by other members already, problems that were NOT fixed with some BIOS update after the machine was initially released. Sure, they fixed a couple of things since the initial launch but it still doesn't even come close to the build quality of the NP8662. Even if this were not the case, why would you want to spend so much money on outdated hardware when you can get the latest hardware in a much better built notebook for a CHEAPER price? Your reasoning for cramming all the good components in makes no sense whatsoever. I am pretty sure that Clevo knows a lot more about building notebooks than you do, and this is evident by pure statistics of hardware related issues coming from both Clevo and AW. As mentioned earlier, google the problems associated with the NP8662 and then the M15x and see which one has a higher rate of issues. If the NP8662 manages to sell so well with arguably no major issues, then I'd say Clevo knows what they're doing wouldn't you?

And as far as pricing, I wouldn't even call this a good deal. The huge discount off an extremely overpriced notebook to begin with does not mean it's a good deal, it means that people were fooled to believe that they're somehow getting the best notebook in the world as long as they pay the huge premium when in reality, that notebook is poorly designed and it has outdated hardware. AW is making suckers out of people.

 

ok this is getting fun. So you are aware that until the m15x and m17x that clevo was making the alienware laptops and as a result of engineering issues, such as poor cooling and quality control alienware has now taken over the design production of the laptops.

 

Dude, did you just say Alienware is an ODM? lmao.

 

No, but they did work with Arima to design the m15x and m17x. It was a direct result of quality issues with the Clevo/AW relationship.

 

Granted, but this is more about the m15x (Arima) vs. the 8662 (Clevo), so really you can't say the 8662 is the same as older Alienwares, which were also Clevos. Anyway, this is all very silly.

 

I agree that this is all silly, I can't help myself keeping the flamewars going. I'll let it go. I get a little frustrated with these ones, as I was just pointing out that the price dropped and for those that want one, it is a good time to jump in. Nothing more, Nothing less.

 

I don't even beging to comprehend why, through so many pages, you keep ignoring the sager build quality that every other person keeps insisting and has evidence that sager/clevo build quality is superior to the AW. Not only is the build quality superior, the specs are better too.

You keep saying that sager/clevo just put whatever the best specs there is currently available to a 15.4" chassis. For some reason, you think they don't care about a thermal budget, etc., and so they just decided to make their laptop look good by stuffing all the best possible things in there. If so, why is sager/clevo regarded so highly as having the best build quality? On top of that, if they did just stuff the best things in there without caring about thermal budget, wouldn't they just have stuffed a GTX 280M and a desktop quad core CPU in there? (cough cough rhetorical question if you don't know.) In addition, the m15x also comes with 9800M GT as an option, so wouldn't they be questionable too, using your logic? The 9800M GT is "supposed" to be for 17", but the m15x can also use it. Not only that, but the 260M GTX is a smaller die, so it is more efficient than the 9800M GT. So, once again, your logic, does that mean AW is a bad company because they decided to take a top-end GPU meant for 17" and stuck it in a 15.4"? No, that's not the reason why they are a bad company.

But anyway, go ahead, if you think of it as a good deal. Let me give you an example. Let's say X is selling a gallon of milk with a 30 day expiration date for 5$. X company loves to advertise itself and somehow manages to make the general public think it's better than Y company. Y company sells gallons of milk with, let's say, a 40 day expiration date for 3$. Y company doesn't get too well-known with the public since it does not bother with advertising. X company drops their milk price from 5$ to 4$. General public, i.e., you, thinks its a better deal, therefore they have more of an intent to buy it.

In the end, Y company still sells better milk for only 3$, while X company sells crappier milk for 4$, but managed to gain more influence w/ advertisement and seniority in the market.

It's your money, do what you will with it.

 

Eh, this is no flamewar sir.

The basis is:

You've never owned an Alienware, never owned a Clevo. This leaves you no real credibility to speak on the reliability, engineering, build quality, or longevity of these companies notebooks, yet you seem to speak from a position of authority and experience.

There's a reason that Clevo is one of the Top 3 respected boutique brands on these boards, and Alienware is generally frowned upon.

 

the guy comes here to post a deal on alienware for people who may actually want an alienware notebook and he gets trashed lmao.

its not always about getting the most bang out of your money so maybe its a good idea to stop trying so hard to educate someone by telling them what horrible decision theyve made.

 

Out of curiosity, where do you get the idea that Arima makes the M15X and M17X? As far as I know, Arima's the only confirmed ODM for the M17. As mentioned, I'm not saying you're wrong, merely that I had not heard of any confirmation of ODM. And switching to Arima (if that's the case) certainly helped the M15X's build issues. Hinge break, micro cracks anyone? The M17 and M17X have been excellent machines, with no complaints from users in general. However, the M17 is not exclusive to AW, and the M17X, while well-built, is still outperformed by a number of 17" from other brands.

Fair enough. I can accept that the GTX260M in a 15.4" is not recommended by Nvidia, although I would imagine those are hardly firm recommendations. Still, it fails to explain the 8800M GTX/9800M GT in M15X though. At any rate, you should still look at the Heat/build complaints between the two models if you're interested. While I do agree that the Bios was a big problem for the M15X, it took MONTHS for AW to get a fix out.

I understand your original purpose was to say that the M15X has dropped immensely in price, which I agree whole-heartedly with. It's the rest of stuff that you bring up that is objectionable.

 

So anyway, I guess it really comes down to this. I purchased a laptop that can switch its video and run quiet all day in the office and then take back to a hotel and crank it up for games at night. The Clevo is a nice machine but I wouldn't want it in the office as it is a beast that requires alot of cooling, it is bigger and sounds like a jet engine with the fan constantly running. So if I was in a dorm with headphones it might be great, for me not so much.

And Chang, unless Nvidia has somehow changed the law of thermodynamics, smaller die size means more heat issues (you know, less surface area, less heat dissipation, hence the need for heat sinks to increase the surface area).... i can get into less power, but based on the increase in frequencies it appears the 260m is still pushing it in a 15.4"...

 

FYI,sager has silent mode...and I would rather shoot myself rather then allow my colleges to see me with notebook which has alien had on it...

 

So, having had no experience with the Clevo, you are certain it is noisier and sounds like a jet engine eh? I guess your research failed to notice the silent mode feature. The 570X models are the units that usually get noise complaints. The M860TU has had far fewer complaints. I find highly entertaining that you constantly bring up the fact that the M860TU is larger.
Measurements for the M860TU
14.3" (w) x 10.6" (d) x 1.45" ~ 1.95" (h) 7.1 LBs with Battery Pack.


M15X dimensions are officially # Size and Weight

* Height: 1.30”
* Width: 14.55”
* Depth: 10.73”
* Weight: 7 lbs

And yet, users indicate otherwise.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=3164528&postcount=42
I'm sure you can form your own opinion on this with the information provided.

As for your diatribe on smaller dies, please read this.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3334

 

Ok I will knock of the comments.

As I understand it... The silent mode generates a alot of heat, but it is dead silent. According to the reviews I found on various web sites and here, the fan runs at a constant 30db and goes up to 50db under load. It appears to be larger and requires quite a bit of airflow under the laptop. So for many gamers that is probably not an issue, for me in the office it is. I won't knock anyone for their choice of a laptop, to each their own. Personally I look for qualities in a laptop that fit MY definition of a laptop, small, portable, ability to put it on your lap etc. Of course going to the m15x from my 1530 and Macbook is a tough one, it is going to be bulkier, heavier and louder!


Now to die sizes, please correct me if I am wrong.....

Smaller die size allows for smaller transisters and a tighter configuration, so less current needs to run through it in order to flip those little 1's and 0's. If the die is smaller you can decrease the required wattage and get the same performance. Less wattage = less heat. But if you increase the frequency as in the 260m and 280m then you cause the heat to go up as it requires an increase in current as well. So it is a trade off. Now if the die is too small there is not enough surface area to transfer the heat to sinks, so there is a limit on how high the frequency can get unless you start actively cooling the chip. You can see this issue now with current processors, rather than continue to increase the frequency to 4-5Ghz per core, they are adding cores because the small die size and the inability to negate the additional heat. Add active cooling, like a chiller or liquid and those same processors can ramp up 1Ghz or more without an issue.

What I do like about the m15x is the seperation of the GPU and CPU to the opposite side of the chassis, seperate sinks, heatpipes and fans transferring the heat out to the respective rear corners.

I do wish I could have found more pics of the Clevo internals, however.

I do have one beef with the sites, such as exoticpc etc, and that is the selection of components is too great, IMHO. Having options such as silver artic compound etc is kind of screwed up IMO. They should use the best stuff in their builds based on experience and not have options.

Cheers all

 

I made a mistake regarding the build of the m15x and m17x, it looks like Quanta is the company doing the fabrication. Alienware did however design the chassis and then off-shore the production. So I do give some props to AW for designing the systems themselves. Hopefully the next model will take into account all of the first gen issues with the m15x and be a really solid machine.

And being here in the states I do have to throw my weight behind a local company that is constantly getting hammered because they aren't cool anymore!

 

sorry,but this sounds ridiculous...whats wrong with ability to choose anything you want in your high end gaming notebook?Also,AS5 is the only options for thermal compound...

 

I personally think that they should always use the best for cooling etc and not leave it up to the consumer, some people just don't know better and can customize a system with extreme processors and high end video cards and get themselves in trouble with cooling etc.. I am sure when you call into these sites they would recommend the right components, especially xcotic as I have heard all good things about them. But when cruising around the web there are so many sites now with so many options, and some of those options do not make for a good mix. Is it your experience, or anyone else out there, that they typically call to verify the configuration? I haven't dealt with any but I did come real close to going with the xoticpc and they look like a reputable company.

 

it is very reputable and has has "big" respect on NBR.And AS5 is the best compound on the market and,once again,the only option.

 

No problem. Here's some pics of my M860TU's internals.

 

Good pics, the cooling system looks like a beast and it has good placement of parts. What is your experience with the sound? I would love to be able to get this kind of performance out of a good portable but my requirements are office by day, game at night and on the weekends I use it for a recording platform (Sonar). So my perfect laptop is portable, powerful and quiet... but so far the new macbook pro is the only one that meets those requirements but I find that using windows on a mac is just not a great experience, between driver issues and not using osx much, it just isn't worth it.

 

Thanks for the bump Plasma, 18.4" uh... why not just get a fragbox?

 

You are correct about the smaller die allowing for decreased wattage use and thus creating less thermal output. And while higher clocks will generally result in higher temperatures , however, you also assumed that the GT260M is clocked high enough that it results in an unsuitable amount of heat being generated. I base this comment not on the post I quoted, but on your earlier posts.

As for having AS5 as an option, some resellers offer it as an option because certain users prefer having AS5 to the stock cooling compound, while other resellers actually recommend sticking to stock compound as they feel the extra cost of AS5 is unnecessary for the performance increase. They'll let you pay for it if you like but they would suggest that there's no need for it.

The preference for a separate fan for CPU/GPU is understandable, but the single fan cooling the M860TU is very effective, as mentioned.

And as I mentioned, the M15X does not appear to be smaller than the M860TU, their sizes are very similar. The 860TU is about .2 inch thicker at its thickest point and .1 inch thicker at its slimmest, but it covers a slightly smaller surface area.

I did forget to mention another feature of the m15X, switchable graphics.

 

I ran the numbers and the 260M should generate less heat than the 9800GT, while the 280M should be comparable to the 9800GT. I do think they got the seperate fans right on the m15x as it allows the fans to idle down depending on which components are getting stressed. So it looks like the biggest difference is the size, it is my understanding the m15x is 1.3" front to back while the clevo is 2.1" in the back and the fan noise, which was always the deal breaker for me, but that is my problem. If the clevo went to a similiar system to cut down on noise and thin up the chassis a bit it would be a hands down winner. IMO.

BTW, Im an OLD and CROTCHETY engineer and I got tired of the flaming, thanks for letting me take it down a notch.

 

I just pointed out that the M15X is not 1.3" throughout. Note this post,

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=3653789&postcount=2

and this

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=3164528&postcount=42
1.3" X 1.2 = 1.5+"

Where did you get the figure for 2.1" for the M860TU? Does that include the rubber bumpers? For the matter, I cannot be certain if the M15X figures include the bumper, nonetheless, the M15X is still not 1.3". I would be very surprised if the M860TU is that thick considering my 9262 is 2.5" thick including the bumpers.


This is what I found on the thickness of the M860TU, including bumpers, from owners.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=312432&highlight=m15x+thickness

Feel free to share the dimensions of your M15X when you get it though. It would be nice to have accurate measurements.

PS: You have a M1530 with a 9600M GT? That sounds interesting, do tell.

This is hardly a flame war.

 

and it continues.........

 

swapped it out from a parts laptop they were both MXM II, that is one of the newer dells 1530s with blu-ray and the 1920 screen, I can't deal with the small text so I gave it to my wife for her pictures and videos... she is starting a hobby.

I pulled the dimensions from the tech specs on both models. I will let you know if the m15x ever shows up... been playing the stage game and it is already 2 weeks after what the web site said for a ship date...

 

I didn't bump it, it was already bumped earlier. That's how I saw this thread.

I purchased the 8930G because it was the best deal for performance in australia I could find. Don't have the fancy deals you Americans have.

 

Lets clear up these misinformed facts.

1. Alienware carried Clevo models (notably M7700 series and mALX) for the longest time until late 2006... when "a certain guide came out" and they (as well as other rip-off OEMs) lost serious business against their competition.
2. Then AW went to Arima for their next exclusive systems (M9700 and M9750)... which were pretty decent all-around systems
3. For some stupid reason or another, they then went with Quanta for the next models (M15x and M17x) ... somewhat of a mistake now if you think about what has occurred.
4. The M15x was the first high-end 15.4" out (before the Clevo M860TU) so it got a lot of attention and buyers
5. the M17x, however, did poorly in sales since there were much better alternative systems with SLI high-end cards (8700M/8800M/9800M)
6. AW then crawled back to Arima for their current M17 (Arima W840 DI)... which is quite good, but late for AW to jump onto it since many other vendors were already selling it at competitive prices
7. currently the question that should be addressed is: "Why pay for old technology (M15x and M17x)?" .... which is why AW has to lower their prices on the M15x in hopes to beat out the Clevo M860ETU, MSI 627, ASUS G50VT, etc...

So for facts sake:
- Arima is the ODM of ... M9700, M9750, and M17
- Quanta is the ODM of ... M15x and M17x
- Clevo is the ODM of ..... the high-end Sager, Pro-Star, Eurocom, Kobalt, etc... systems.
- Clevo has been around longer than pretty much every ODM (even Quanta and Compal) you will know, let alone every OEM.

Next fact,
- the Nvidia GTX 260M is a die-shrunk 9800M GTX which will work perfect and run cooler in the 15.4" Clevo M860TU/ETU.

Conclusion, AW better not go Quanta again for their notebooks or they will fall behind.... as well as increasing in service repairs.