Apple MacBook First Thoughts Review (pics, specs)

This site being about NOTEBOOKS: Apple dropped new OS X support for Lombards sold in 2000 with Tiger officially. Wallstreets got dropped in Jaguar.

Visit a few Mac web sources for recent discussions regarding the repair permissions usage debate, easily found.

This thread has devolved into sophomoric bickering, some very uncivil new members and bizzare personal attacks from strangers with zero rep.

 

I keep checking this thread to get some more info on the new MacBook that I may consider buying.
Unfortuantely all i get is a Mac/PC flamewar about kernels and nodes that wont make a difference to me in considering what to buy

 

You boldly stated that, "There's no such thing as six year old legacy hardware still getting any OS support including all current updates." Whether notebook or desktop, again that is untrue: The "Pismo" laptop model introduced in February 2000 is fully supported by Tiger, including the latest updates.

Here's what Apple itself has to say about repairing permissions:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25751
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106712

A specific example of how and when it can be a useful procedure:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107396

Here's what Ted Landau of MacFixit--a site you mentioned frequenting--has to say about the procedure:

http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?story=2006050407462364&query=permissions+third-party

Your expression of a dissident viewpoint may have been well intentioned but it too must be open to dispute and correction in a forum such as this...

 

Not to go off the current topic too much, but as for the overheating...

Recently I've been looking around various Mac forums seeing exactly how hot people MacBooks actually got, the answer was disturbing. People were speaking of idling Macs at over 60c which is terrible when a comparable windows computer idles over 10c cooler..

From what I've seen the problem is that they pile on over TEN times too much thermal paste on the CPU, GPU, and chipset. Effectvely making it WORSE than having no thermal paste at all. In that quantity the paste no longer does its job, which is to connect the various parts and heatsink ironing out little imperfections, in this case, it turns it into a heat conductor.

Just a thought Andrew, in your final review if it's possible to take it apart and look to see if this is your problem, taking it apart has been confirmed to be reletively easy, then that would be very helpful to me, as I'm very interested in this and how widespread it is. I believe it even instructs this large amount of thermal paste in the service manual..

 

Didn't you (and a few other people) already post about this earlier in the thread, like 5 pages back, lol? Posting so often you're losing track now, eh Reize?

 

Yeah, I guess until abaxter gets his final review up, you'll have to go elsewhere for that.

Three fairly extensive reviews:
http://reviews.cnet.com/Apple_MacBook_13_inch_2_0GHz_Intel_Core_Duo/4505-3121_7-31884384.html
http://www.macworld.com/2006/02/reviews/mbpromain/index.php
http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/macbook.ars

The Macworld review is not yet listed under "available reviews" by this site.

There are also lots of people posting about their experiences on forums at those sites and also at macnn.com and macrumors.com.

 

Oops. Linked to the Macworld review of the MBP by mistake.

The real links for the MacBook reviews are:

First look:
http://www.macworld.com/2006/05/firstlooks/macbookfirst/index.php

Benchmarks:
http://www.macworld.com/2006/05/firstlooks/macbookbench/index.php

Q&A:
http://www.macworld.com/2006/05/firstlooks/macbookfaq/index.php

 

In case you haven't yet, and also for anyone else interested, there is a video of Parallels running Windows and Linux virtually on a MacBook--

http://www.tuaw.com/2006/05/22/found-footage-os-switching-on-a-macbook/

I also recall that VMWare announced they are developing software for OS X to do something similar.

And finally, there is software under development called "Crossover Mac" from a company called CodeWeavers that sounds pretty cool: running Windows apps on OS X without installing Windows-- more info:
http://www.macnewsworld.com/story/50498.html

(Page down a bit) T

 

MacBook heat related:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=201

The gory details:

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=295925

Just one pre-MacBook "almost too hot to touch" heat G4 PowerBook owner recent thread:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=202353

 

Apple's own advice against using their MacBook on laps:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/19/warning-from-apple-dont-put-our-laptops-on-your-lap/

 

Does anyone know if the amount of thermal grease in the pictures over at http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/86.0.0.html) is adequate or too much?



It's a macbook disassembled by ifixit.

I'm considering buying my first mac but this issue keeps coming up and I'm holding off until it gets sorted out.

 

Yes, I may be posting too much that I lose track of it... D=

The issue will most likely remain for a long time because many of them with too much paste have already been shipped out. Were I to personally buy a Macbook, I would order a tube of Arctic Silver to the side and disassemble the thing reapplying the thermal paste myself so that I know it's done right.

As for the using laptops on the lap...

I really don't like this, it looks like Apple is just trying to ignore the blatant problem with this, it's a 13.3" notebook, it should be able to be placed on the lap for longer than 30 minutes without rendering a man infertile. A Sony SZ can do this, as can a Fujitsu S6000, all three have similar specs yet the Macbook has these odd limitations. The problem is the thermal paste, however, Apple isn't going to admit that for a while. I find it funny that one of the oldest computer companies is having a simple problem such as too much thermal paste, and will not even admit their wrong as well as keeping it in the service manual as the 'correct way'.

I like the notebooks very much, they're sleek and stylish, as well as reletively unique to the point that I actually want one. However, I'm a little annoyed that I'd have to void the warranty on day one so that I can have children one day.

 

First, since its gotten all prissy here about spelling and terms, grease is absolutely the wrong term. Thermal compound is correct.

Those two CPU faces appear to have made either only partial, off-centered contact on the top one and barely any at all on the bottom one except on the right edge with the mating face of the heat sinks.

The majority remaining smooth regions of compound looking like a nice gasket is absolutely wrong use of compound. Same with the oozing over the edges. There shoukd be only enough to cause the broken, rippled patterns shown where the two faces were joined closely enough to make the random splotches when separted. Like the visible impression that results when prying apart something well glued together. Think postage stamp glue thick not Orero cookie filling thick.

Actually, a fitting test is ideally first used to inspect those telling mating patterns created to verify that intimate, fully aligned joining will result before a proper final assembly. The reliability and life span of the product (along with other internal components life) depends on it.

Visit Arctic Silver's web site for rational, common sense, specific design concept and only intended use of all thermal compounds, an incredibly simple idea clearly explained accompanied with unmistakable illustrations of use. About as hard to follow as that a rock sinks dropped in water. And one bigger won't ever float, no matter how big.

Former use of thermal pads (premade self-sticking wafers) were previously used and are marketed to avoid precisely this whole situation. The most careless application still would work to design specs. The problem is that pads are considerably inferior to leading brand compounds performance (properly applied). The history of using thermal pads may help explain the blunder of this magnitude. I observed an official Apple tech pull off my PowerBook's processor and reassembled just sticking the used pad back together. Pads are strictly one time use and should be scraped off, joining surfaces cleaned and new (correct part spec) one reapplied. He was unaware of the proper use. I later saw the procedure clearly stated in that model's service manual. At least the pad so idiot-proof couldn't be otherwise misapplied unless piled several stacked.

Be VERY aware that Apple has ZERO tolerance for ANYONE except approved Apple certified notebook techs opening ANY model notebook for ANY reason. Any evidence found totally voiding ALL warranty or AppleCare forever. And non-warranty notebook part astronomical prices. Really, really astronomical.

Curiously, expect opening notebook to have large numbers of varying, odd size, surprisingly soft metal screw heads and joints using well hidden, easily bunged plastic locking tabs.

Better pull any "non Apple" RAM also before sending in notebook for warranty claim service unless you are prepared for too common rejection that third party RAM caused whatever the problem may actually be, including worn paint.

Yes, PC makers pull same sly stunts, as does Apple with zeal for the rest to copy.

 

Replacement or addition of RAM in all of Apple's notebooks by the user is specifically allowed. In the MacBook, the replacement of the HDD is additionally allowed.

Neither situation has any impact on warranty coverage.

Note also that those upgrade procedures are described and illustrated in the PowerBook and MacBook User Guides.

 

What the manual states and what the service depot will diagnose as the root cause of a rejected warranty repair request can be very, very different. All notebook brands routinely use the third party RAM blame game. Including Apple. You couldn't possibly not ever heard of the RAM trick being used by Apple without some agenda. Apple employee maybe? No, they're forbidden posting on forums.

The warning shout was addressing the prior stated contemplation of thermal compound fiddling and the consequences actually going there. Come on.

History lesson again: the MacBook is the first iBook series model EVER to allow swapping hard drives without warranty voiding risk.

The first iBooks and all G3 and G4 white iBooks had the hard drive absurdly deeply buried and about as inacessable as could ever be dreamed up.

Several recent versions of the PowerBook series also didn't allow hard drive swaps without warranty risking, cracking open the notebook, an incredibly arrogant design attitude targeting supposedly professional useage. Hopefully, the MacBook Pro had the "feature" restored. Titaniums did. 12" didn't. The alum 15" did. Then revise suddenly didn't as if users could care less.

Is just logical, widely standard, common door with two screw, giving 30 second access from case bottom that offensive to one's aesthetic senses? Bet the sweaty palm 2 to 4 hour iBook vivisection ordeal (with leftover screws) just to upgrade a hard drive gave those brave enough a brief pause wondering the design choice after.

Its no fun dragging out the skeletons, but quoting only craftily selected user manuals to shore up an agenda will do it everytime. Apple's notebook design history is checkered at best concerning user hardware access. As bad as Sony or Dell.

Hopefully this current MacBook won't be an isolated reversal of past opposite attitude towards user access in the series.

 

Wow... someone has an agenda in this discussion thread.

It sure as h*ll ain't me...

 

I haven't been paying attention entirely during this conversation, but from what I can see, you, deasys are taking things out of context.

You're ripping a word he used because he used it and using said word to validate your statement, I don't see the logic in that.

 

Then perhaps you shouldn't comment but thanks for your input anyway.

 

dude, ease up, its just a discussion

 

CNet's final review of the MacBook is up now. Of course, in their oddly inflexible trying-to-be-consistent-but-ending-up-completely-assinine sort of way, they insist on rating performance in OSX using software written for PowerPC running in emulation, then list as one of the cons that performance is slow for non-native apps. No, really, you don't say! Now please tell us how well it runs compared to other Core Duo laptops running the same software in the same OS, e.g. Windows!

Also, David Pogue at video.on.nytimes.com has an, um, unconventional, video review of the MacBook.

 

deasys; All of your posts are in this thread and your account was created the day you first posted on this thread, said behavior is slightly suspect to me, especially with the sharp tongue of yours. First-meetings are crucial to a good future experience, so, you may want to ease up a bit.

mzlin; thanks, I'll have to read that, though I don't like cNet's reviews, it's another opinion to be considered regardless. As for the NYT one, just a heads up, it didn't work for me on Opera, but it works fine in IE.

 

As long as a good discussion is going on, I don't have any problems with this thread. But, I do see some mild hostility progressing in certain posts; as long as that is kept to a minimum, post away.

Regards,
Chaz

 

I've had a chance to spend with some quality time with the new MacBook. It really is a wonderful laptop and an excellent value. The built-in iSight camera is a nice touch, too.

This article makes some good points about CNET's review.
http://www.macnightowl.com

 

I clicked on that link about the CNET review, and I was struck by the part where they guy said they would always ask for something negative to say about something when he worked at CNET. It sure explained why CNET would find odd things to score as big negatives.

Also what the author said about CNET simply getting the facts wrong is true. For example, they said the MacBook Pro was more expensive and worse performing than the Acer Travelmate 8200 with the same processor when neither is true, based on their own benchmarks with native software and the price links on the site. To top it off, they scored the MBP as a "thin and light" because it weighed less than 6 pounds, which influences how subcategory scores (such as performance, battery life, design, features) are weighted, but the Acer Aspire as a midsize because it weighed more than 6 pounds. This was despite the MBP being compared against the Acer in design, features, and performance to arrive at those subcategory scores, and the MBP having a 15" screen, which of course no other "thin and light" laptop had. The result was an overall score for the MBP lower than the Acer's when both had very similar subcategory scores.

CNET may have such a scoring systems to help them compare across different kinds of laptops, but when they penalize one notebook over another for being LIGHTER, it's just absurd. Besides, I doubt they are being very systematic in their scoring assignments, because most of their Editor's Choices right now are Dells, and guess who is a big advertiser on the site?

Then there was their review of the 17" PowerBook when it came out in early 2003, in which they complained it was too big. And yet it was and is (now as the 17" MacBook Pro) the thinnest and lightest 17" laptop around, and lighter than other 17" laptops that of course didn't get penalized in the reviews for being too big. Anyway, that was like complaining a 12" ultraportable's screen is too small, or the BMW Z3 only has 2 seats, or the Land Cruiser is tougher to park than an Echo. Obviously you buy it because it wanted it either big or small!

Anyway, that's why I like this site, where benchmarks are performed across computers with similar processors, where close-up photos are shown, where hands-on descriptions and impressions are given, where valid comparisons and non-obvious insights are made, where the reviewers are not being fed by advertising money. The reviews here read like they are written by human beings. The CNET reviews read like they were written by robots.

 

CNET's reviews are worthless. I pay little to no attention to anything they have to say. Along the same lines as what you just said, they recently had a review of my notebook (Sony SZ) where they panned it for not have a multimedia card reader. Although this is technically true because it doesn't have one built in, the notebook does come with a mulitmedia card adapter that slides flush into a slot on the right side of the notebook giving it the ability to read almost any type of flash media, and they even mentioned that fact in the review.

Bottom line is they are so biased it's not even funny.

 

I wanted to post that I overreacted to deasys' comment and made some assumptions leading to some errors in judgement, so this is my public apology. We've sorted this out via PM already, I just thought this would be a good end to it...

 

Actually if you just have Ati Tray tools you can set a hot key for a print screen, If i press print screen (a hot key I set) it will put a full size .bmp in my recent documents folder. simple as that

 

this is all correct but Apple is doing the exact same thing with their commercials.

but the bottom line is that a huge number of peoples MB's are overheating and crashing and if the majority of people gave a crap about Apple it would be widely known, just like everytime a PC crashes.

I like Apples laptops and OSX is pretty nice but not nice enough that I wouldn't want to use windows again.

 

FYI according to macbookcentral.com, onsale.com and macconnection.com are offering $100 off the black 2Ghz MacBook and $75 off the white 2Ghz MacBook. This reduces the price gap between white and black MacBooks a little, but also shows that the reseller's margins are higher for the black MacBook. Kind of like buying a silver car over a white one.

 

Another vendor to consider is Amazon.com. They are offering $100 rebates on the MacBook plus free shipping. The MacBook is currently ranked #1 and #2 on Amazon's Best Seller list.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...-/pc/all/ref=pd_ts_pc_nav/104-4014345-9765541

 

Just as a heads up, the estimated ship date is long. I ordered mine from amazon and its estimated ship date is July 28th.

 

I hear what you're saying about Amazon's distant ship dates. Although, my experience has been that they ship well in advance of these estimates.

The same is true for the online Apple store. I've been told that the ship date will be three weeks from now, but then the product ships in only a few days.

 

There just aren't enough vents. I think style won over practicality here, because there are no bottom vents, nothing to prop up the notebook to get some air underneath the laptop. If they had added some rubber feets and some vents on the bottom, they probably would have gotten away with the heat issue.


It only would have added a few mm of height. They could have added some retractable feet like keyboards have, if they wanted to. The bottom vents are necessary also, IMO. They also need bigger rear vents.

The notebook is really nice otherwise. I'm tempted, but the heat issue is the deal breaker for me.

 

This crash you described seems to be affecting a lot of people. Check this out this post at the apple discussion forums:

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=507317&tstart=0

it describes your 1st macbook's crash exactly.

 

My cousin ordered a customized MacBook (1 GB RAM, 100 GB HD) at the online Apple Store on May 29 with free, slow shipping. It shipped June 1 from China and arrived on June 2 via FedEx.

That damn crummy Apple service...

P.S. PC-Jay - nice slipping your Associates link to Amazon in your post, netting you commission on any sale. Wish I'd thought of it first.

 

I don't have any affiliate relationship with Amazon, but have bought three computers from them at a good price.

 

Well, my mistake. Your link looked like an affiliate link. They do have good prices, but if you want to customize your product at all, they can only sell the stock configurations.

T

 

True. If wanting only additional RAM, I've found it economical to buy the stock computer from Amazon, and then purchase memory from a reliable vendor such as Other World Computing. Amazon's rebate check often more than pays for the RAM upgrade.

 

In this case, however, my cousin wanted a large HD so she can also install Windows XP and not worry about space. Plus, since the RAM has to be installed in pairs (or is highly recommended), she would have had to buy two 512s to replace the 256es, and then she'd have had two 256es going to waste. But the big reason she didn't want to order from Amazon because she was worried what would happen if it arrived with any damage or non-functional parts. We asked at the Apple Store locally, and they said if she bought from the online Apple Store and there was anything wrong, they could exchange it right there and swap in the extra RAM and larger HD to a new one. That was the deal maker.

In any case, she received it in four days from China to the U.S. with free shipping. And it is really sweet.

Paul Thurrott of "WinSuperSite" fame is smitten with his new MacBook: http://www.connectedhomemag.com/HomeOffice/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=50437 "New MacBook Is Apple of this Windows User's Eye"

 

Yes, Apple does tend to have good after-the-sale support. A friend recently purchased a MacBook Pro from B&H Photo. After using it a couple weeks, he felt that the right speaker sounded "a bit distorted" when playing a DVD. He brought the computer to an Apple Store; and rather than checking deeply into his claim, they simply replaced his machine with a brand new one.

I agree that there are times when it makes sense to purchase items directly from Apple. But another benefit to consider when buying from Amazon is that they do not charge sales tax. Where I live, that amounts to $50 of savings for every $1,000 in purchase price. (Of course, some states have a "use tax" and want you to declare such purchases on your income tax return.) The tax savings combined with the rebate check can add up to a significant amount.

 

I challenge you to find a PC laptop that runs as silently as the Macbook, yet still runs a dual-core CPU at 100% of the time. Heat is only a trade-off for the fact that you can only *see* the Macbook, not get a headache from the roaring fans other powerful notebooks have. It causes no damage to the computer, it's by design. If you don't like the heat, when using it in your lap, disable one of the CPUs cores by holding the power button for eight seconds or so to start the computer, till it beeps.