Guest Editorial: Apple "MehBooks" and the Future of Macs

That's Apple, which includes a wide-range of products such as Iphones, Ipods, desktops...We're talking about laptops here only. And no, Macs are not that bad, they are clearly better than any Acers...

 

I'm confused.

...so you're saying that this was not supposed to actually be helpful to anyone at all who is an NBR visitor, but it is actually an open letter to Apple disguised as a news post? Or was it some sort of "stating the obvious"-post? This just in - Asus makes laptops with good specs but poor battery life. Asus sucks because they won't sell me a compact notebook with decent specs and good battery life for $800. I expect this to be posted as news ASAP.

 

Way overpriced hardware.

Closed system.

Nuff said.

 

This isn't as easy as it sounds... Why do you think OS X is so nice and stable? Cause it's designed to run on Apple hardware. I know that new Macs are Intel based quite like majority of other PCs but making OS that works flawlessly on a dozen of hardware configurations (Macbook, iMac etc.) is rather easy comparing to making OS that works on hundreds or thousands hardware configurations (you name it)...

 

AMEN my friend some need to bring them Apple "Geniuses" on the ground!!!

 

The OP just expressed his opinions, and he owns many Macs already. Whatever you interpret is your own.
This article is done by a non-staff NBR, so if you're willing to do such a thing with any brand, you're very welcome to do so.

 

trentbg: and what do you mean by that?

 

Well I am just congratulating lewdvig for the lovely article.

 

Really??? Let's see, rams from SamSung, HDDs from Hitachi or WD or Seagate, GPU by Nividia, CPU by intel, Wireless Chipsets by Intel, screen by LG or Samsung or AUO...
Apple hardware???

 

What you're missing is that the average user will think he needs to spend more for a MAC not really assessing their needs. They're not gong to look at a Sony Viao or XPS or even an HDX if they think that a MAC in inherently better than a PC. So there's no meaningful point in "fairly" comparing based on the context of the user this is aimed at.

What makes it a fair comparison is that an Inspiron/Pavillion can handle just about anything an average user can throw at it. So why would the average user need to spend more on ANY premium brand, let alone a MAC?

Well, there may be a reason yet. OSX for one is more user friendly and comes with high quality programs that one would otherwise have to buy with a PC. But, that may not be to their liking. Backlit keyboards can come in handy in a number of scenarios. Guaranteed peripheral compatibility may be another. And so on and so forth. But at what price?

This article does say MAC's suck. It says, are they worth the price premium relative to your needs?

gain, it's not about preference and you can't disparage a person for their preference. If one like the styling of a MAC or the mystique/image, by all means. But if one is looking to access their needs relative to specifications and price, that's something to consider and requires facts.

 

So the front page of NBR is now a tech blog? Will reviews and news still be posted in the future, or is this a permanent move?

 

I have only used Wintel machines as my personal computers and from time to time Macs at work. Hardware is grossly the same, giving grossly the same results.

The big difference is the OsX, which is really a pleasure to work with.

I am looking for a new laptop to buy and for the first time I considered buying an Apple laptop. I would pay a 30% premium for OsX but there are so many things that from my personnal point of view, just dont feel right.

Pricing is one of them. It is just too much for me. And then, it is this completely incomprehensible, from my point of view, attitude of Apple to always leave something out. HDMI, firewire, BR...

And this is a general thing with Apple. (for example, did iPhone get copy-paste or not yet?) I just dont get it... (or I am competely misinformed or ignorant of something...)

I was expecting a bit more from Apple and the cute "I am a PC, I am a Mac" pubs and the generalised hype, just dont make it for me. My bank account cannot tell a difference between a PC and a Mac and I cannot convince my self to pay that much for OsX...

 

That's beyond me, how about you pm Andrew and ask him why there is such a post
Again, if you don't like it, don't read it, don't post, don't visit NBR if you think this is not right.

I bet all eyes of Mods are watching this thread right now, let's keep it down

 

Who gives a flying fart about a stupid computer with a unibody all aluminum and a fancy glass trackpad. All I care is that the **** thing works and gets the job done, and I get my paycheck and I'm out baby. This is not some freakin sports car that needs this crazy aluminum unibody, I feel like we are talking about an exotic lambo or an airforce jet here, it's a freakin laptop, calm down Apple. hahahaha. We pc users have been doing just fine with our "cheap plastic bodies" as some poke fun at us assuming they are cheap in quality when they pack a powerful punch at an affordable price. And our cheap plastic bodies actually have functionality and substance to them.

 

On the MacBook Pro vs HP HDX16t, this is not even fair to HP on MSRP. With a coupon, you can get a HDX18t for that price.

 

I'm all for a constructive debate here - maybe there is something the author missed, who knows, but your posts are just bashing the idea of this thread, which is a waste.

 

1. Agreed, it's a +;
2. You mean, same glass display panel which is unreadable on daylight and when light is directed into it ?
3. LED backlight, old news. C'mmon. I wouldn't buy a non-LED laptop anymore.
4. Agreed, + again, although I would prefer couple of small buttons underneath.
5. + again, backlit keyboard is something I miss on other manufacturer's laptops. Strange thing not to see it included on more laptops.

Anyway, I really wanted to buy new MB Pro, simply because of there is no compromise in construction and internal hardware. And Windows would be mostly on it, I admit that. . But 5 things are holding me away:
- No 1680x1050 resolution
- No matte display
- Mirror-like screen finish. I could live with glossy display, but I really need to be able to see things on the screen even when it's not completly dark in the room.
- Still no WWAN (HSDPA) option
- 1 more USB port would be nice

Those 5 things are leading to 6th thing, which is price. If the darn thing is cheaper, I could live with 5 above mentioned cons. This way, I'm asking my self is it really worth that much...


P.S. However, I tend to partially agree that this article is written in a bit "angry" way, thus having less credibility then it would have if it has been written without so much bitterness.

 

i'm afraid its you who's missing the point. the point (again) is about VALUE. if you look at value and specs, you arent getting much from apple, but macs are about more than whats under the hood. Apple isnt a VALUE brand. Look to dell and hp if you want value for your money. apple is a premium product that demands a premium price. why drive a bentley when you can have a ford?

 

I'm sorry, but talking about an illuminated keyboard or glass touchpad, or aluminum body, and LED screen just doesn't spell substance. It just doesn't make your computer function better as would "WIDE AVAILABILITY OF PORT SELECTION" so one could hook up various peripherals from time to time without worry, do I need this converter or this thing, or darn, I forgot this now I can't do my job. All Apple ever talks about is cosmetics. And the color white is wrong. I would not be caught dead walking around with a white electronic device or white cords, pretty gay to me. I am glad Apple doesn't make TV's and the like. hahaha.

And don't get me wrong, LED backlight and the other features are sweet, but port availability and functionality, and substance is far more important. Once all those areas are met, then we can talk about all that other nonsense. Function first, form second. That's my two cents.

 

No it doesn't, and that's the point of this thread. None of the hardware in a Mac makes it a premium laptop over a Dell XPS or HP HDX.

 

I agree. This is a review site - subjective articles have no place on the featured homepage (a forum thread would be a different matter).

You definitely pay a lot more for a Mac, but don't say there's no hardware difference (at least not with the new Macs). They have some innovative features you can't deny, and while it's probably too early to say for sure how useful those features are (glass "clickable" touchpad, sturdy aluminum shell, etc.), they sure seem appealing to me.

Keep in mind, there is no such thing as an average user. Everyone has their own unique needs and preferences. Some people prefer cheap plastic laptops that will wear out quickly, while others prefer strong, quality, premium laptops that offer the best conveniences.

The only possible argument against Macs are that they're overpriced, which is true really, but it's not even an argument since obviously people are buying them and enjoy them very much. There's a lot more than specs to a laptop.

My laptop display is glossy, and I actually prefer that to matt. Yeah, it reflects things sometimes, but that's an advantage since strong lights at an angle (like the sun) bounce right off the screen rather than diffusing all over the place and making it impossible to read anything. Anyway, this should probably be saved for another debate.

And yet the many mentioned Dell, HP, etc. laptops don't include it.

Wrong, glass screens, aluminum shells, etc. are extremely functional and substantial, just not to everyone apparently (or else nobody realizes how useful they can be).

Glass clickable touchpad - well, if I need to explain why this is an advantage, I doubt you've ever extensively used a laptop touchpad.

Glass screen - if you've used LCD screens you know they're very fragile and easily scratched, unlike the glass used in old CRT monitors. They also smudge very easily, and are difficult to clean properly without damaging because applying too much pressure ruins them. A glass panel screen eliminates all these problems.

Aluminum shell - my laptop is carbon fiber, so this isn't an issue with me, but many laptops have serious build quality issues, especially plastic ones. Some even flex when typing of resting your hands on the palm rest. But what matters is these laptops don't last long and break a lot even during everyday portable use. An aluminum shell is a big advantage if it's as durable as Apple claims.

etc.

 

I have to agree with the notion of MehBooks. The steep price and lack of hardware power are the biggest things keeping me from buying a Mac. I don't particularly like the OS, but I'm willing to give things a try especially when there's things like Bootcamp available. I guess Apple is trying to milk the market for all they can before Psystar does their damage. Even if Apple did become more competitive that doesn't mean I would switch (there's too many Windows advantages), but sometimes I do buy things just to try them out. My $1250 P-7811 FX eats any MacBook alive while running circles around it though. Apple definitely needs to step up their game and learn that they are competing with Dell, HP, and others. Once they figure that out, they may start finally making some fast-paced progress in gobbling up market share.

I would welcome more frequent updates. The quality of the work here is great. Ok, so I might be biased because I've contributed, but there's a reason I stick around here as opposed to other sites. An occasional opinion piece is a good way to mix things up.

 

Personally I think there's a general misconception of the purpose of "laptop computers" by many "average users". I know, because I was one of them (and made a big mistake by buying based on specs rather than hardware a few years ago).

The purpose isn't to buy the fastest thing you can get for the money, but the most portable, well built, convenient computer, since that's really the whole point in a portable computer. If portability wasn't a concern, you'd get a desktop.

With portability comes a need for durability, since it will most likely be banged around, picked up, carried, etc. Also easy cleaning is nice since chances are you'll smudge or otherwise get your laptop dirty at some point (this is what's really nice about glass/aluminum).

With portability comes a need for innovative input devices like quality touchpads, since you can't really use a full size mouse everywhere you go. For this reason innovative touchpads like Apple's are very important, even if it means you lose a few GBs and GHz for the same price.

With portability comes a need for light weight design, for obvious reasons.

With portability comes a need for long battery life, for obvious reasons.

Apple's laptops aren't the best in all of these areas, but it's sure a lot better than the cheap Dell 13" model this article compared the MacBook to.

Being objective means you have to take a few steps back and admit that there may be some advantages to whatever you don't like, and you need to consider them with an open mind.

 

That's what I said. Value. Value for the dollar relative to your needs. read through again and you'll see I understand precisely your point as well as the OP's.

I never said that MAC wasn't a premium brand. I question the validity of it being a premium. In some cases, it is, in others it isn't. But is it worth the premium on objective grounds? Specs. Or needs which would be objective/subjective. Desire/preference would be purely subjective.

 

And may I ask what do you mean by "average user"?

And all people do here say "how bad macs are and how overpriced they are"

 

I just bought the new MacBook.

Pros:
Beautiful
OSX, Unix environment is useful as a CS major. I SSH into Unix to code and compile sometimes on my Gateway P-7811FX which I use mostly for Linux. Having OSX on the go will be great.
Keyboard is excellent
Very sturdy
DisplayPort, I use a 30in so this saves me the cost of a side LCD as I cannot stand non-native resolution.
Not too expensive, paid $1080 off Ebay.

Cons:
Not the best in terms of specs, but the 9400M is no slouch in a 13in.
Resolution is a bit low but on a 13in that is expected
Screen is kinda crappy but I am pretty anal about LCDs. I use only S-IPS screens.
Touchpad does not work well in Windows

 

I think this article doesn't really introduce anything new. However I would recommend maybe editing it to have it compared to Sony laptop, HP HDX series, and Dell Studio line

I think macbooks will still come out at least 25% more expensive, but those are a little more fair arguments then comparing entry-level laptops. At least the Dell Studio laptops, and Sonys, and HP HDX laptops have higher end build quality etc over an Inspiron

 

Wow carbon fiber, what the heck do you need with that!!!??? You can't be serious. I think some people just have lost their minds and are completely bored with their lives that they think they need these insane materials.

I have a cheap lenovo plastic laptop, and I mean run of the mill plastic and it has been doing me just fine sir. just fine. no problems whatsoever and I take to work and college back and forth like mad. I also use the touchpad estensively and it is also just fine, no worries. If you truely believe that you must have a carbon fiber/aluminum body and glass touchpad then that is your porogitive, but hugely wrong.

An aluminum or carbon fiber body does not make the computer work better or more efficiently it is all psychological my friend.

 

Also I agree that comparing the new MB to the Studio is apples to oranges. The XPS is a better comparison. There is a huge difference between the 9400M and the Intel 4500. When you are in the ultraportable category having extra graphics horsepower command a big premium.

p.s. Everyone have different priority and wants. Just because someone like to have carbon fiber or aluminum on a notebook doesnt mean s/he is wrong. If you like your plastic so be it, doesnt really matter but dont force your own belief onto others...

 

To build the lightest fully powered 13" laptop ever.

 

From the original "review". IMO if you did not test a product you dont really have a right to say anything about it. This entire thread is just a flame bite without substance. Should not be on the front page.

 

let's compare the mac price with alienware and not with mass-production plastic crap with vista or xp ...

and don't forget os x, mac's design and the value if you sale a used notebook !

 

They are Made in China just like the rest of them.
They have been losing resale value as I know first hand since Im trying to sell my MacBook Pro 17" on Ebay right now. The prices have dropped quite a bit Im sad to say.

 

Actually I don't care if a laptop is made out of cardboard really, as long as it's sturdy and functionally durable. The point is most plastic laptops are cheap and junky, while Apple's and Sony's, no matter what they're made of, are generally very well built.

In Lenovo's case, they use thick high quality plastic reinforced with a magnesium alloy frame, which results in a very durable and reliable laptop. Unfortunately they are very heavy (which is why Sony uses carbon fiber, and Apple uses aluminum).

Of course, the MacBook costs more than the cheap, poorly built "consumer grade" laptops, but that's to be expected.

 

I am not forcing beliefs onto anyone. I am merely trying to point out that just because a computer is aluminum or carbon fiber does not make it more functional. I believe it is purely asthetics and psychological and I just think many people fall for these tactics Apple shoves down their throats charging a premium and oh wait, their products have less functionality than the cheap so called plastics products, so their pricing and bloating is all over rated. that is all I am merely pointing out. I am not saying don't buy the aluminum notebook, I am saying don't be fooled into thinking that it is more functional or superior in any way, because your are just fooling yourself then. that's all.

I don't see aluminum as an advantage at all except for asthetics and that is not functional advatage.

 

Just as there are strong plastic laptops, there can be weak metal and carbon fiber laptops, but as a general rule premium materials and engineering results in a more functionally durable computer, and Sony's and Apple's laptops are proof of this (compared to something like the Dell Studio 13 for example).

 

take a break m8!

Aluminum or carbon fiber made you laptops build better,lighter,and helps with heat.

 

Apple has made it very apparent that they are only around to service a niche market. They don't want to make everyone happy. They just want to make their fanboys happy. And they know their niche market will continue to pay into their ridiculous 40-60% profit margins.
I have a lot of coworkers who are diehard Apple users and the notebook refresh is daily off target. Then again, they are a consumer electronics company who's focus is no longer computing.

I remember seeing my coworkers reactions to the refresh. Their body language dearly was, "This is it?" Compare the refresh to the IPOD refresh.

 

I didn't feel bias while I read this article, it is just overdue to publicly get some facts on their value straight to destroy some of the (over)hype the Macbooks get. So it's about mac value vs PC value methinks - I very much appreciate that take that. Really, I do like some things of these machines and like the OP said, "OS X is a masterpiece" - I do agree with that, and I question those who say the OP is biased.

Besides techies like me and others here, Average Joe is mostly not aware of the features and value they get for their money. Most of the reviews on the MBP are so awkwardly biased by the looks and feels of this machine and praised over the competition, yet it reminds me of a sleek looking Porsche with a KIA motor, to say it in your terms.

I look at Macs (mainly because of OS X) ever since and everytime a new Macbook Pro comes out, I have a close look at it and wonder if I wouldn't buy one in instead of a PC notebook next time. But thus far, these machines are for my day to day work like expensive bricks, having their goodies, but stripped down to a bare minimum in favour of their sleek looks.

You can't compare apples with pies, granted. But these days Apple and PC notebooks resemble much of the same hardware under the hood, not to say the same hardware platform.

If more reviews on the MBP would take a shot on ports, glossy screen in real world conditions and day-to-day usability, Average Joe could do an informed decision whether that stripped sleek aluminium brick is for him of if he wouldn't be better off with something else that sucks everything you throw at it or plug into it at a much better price.

 

Here's a more fair comparison:

Macbook 13"
2.0 ghz core 2 duo
160gb HDD
2gb RAM
nVidia 9400
backlit keyboard

$1299

Dell studio 15
2.0ghz core 2 duo
160gb HDD
2gb RAM
ATI Radeon 3450 dedicated video card w/ HDMI out
backlit keyboard

$774

That's still a noticable difference

 

It's nothing all too mysterious when you break it down into economic bell curves.

Partly as defined by the average spec and sized notebook sold which is 15" with integrated graphics and mid tier CPU of a CPU series. Also as defined by what people mostly do with notebooks/computers. But that's another sub metric.

In other words, the average user comprises a wide subset of a spectrum in the bell curve that can be defined as average price paid for most popular spec'd notebooks bought in a certain price range spectrum. That metric is how companies are able to define the specs and profit margin of a premium line and to coordinate their supply logistics to anticipate lower sales for their premium lines than their average unit line.

So contrary to what you might read on the web of certain authors trying to dispell the notion of an avergae user in order to attempt to trump OS preference or cheerleading, there indeed exists an average user. One who is easy to differentiate from say, an enthusiast or power user.

 

Whats wrong with paying more for aesthetics? If everything is along your logic then we should all pay the bare minimum for everything.

 

Great article,

I think what Lewdvig says is plain true.

Also, there are a lot apple fanboys in the wild ***cough cough*** Too much sectarianism and radicalism when you expose your thoughts about apple flaws

 

13 vs 15, that is a big difference right there. 13 is ultraportable/thin and light. 15 is mainstream. You would have a more valid argument comparing to the MBP.

 

wow you really missed my logic then if that is what you think. did I say that? no man. My logic is focus most your money on function then later narrow it down by form. function over form is all I am saying. Don't pay a premium for form thinking it is for function and then crying when you can't do this and that with the machine you just spent thousands on.

 

I think you just hit the nail on the head. It's aesthetics. Some people have a fundamental belief that laptops and electronics are functioning items, not fashion accessories that are supposed to impress their friends. Those are obviously not the people who Apple are targeting.

However conversely there are a different group of people who fundamentally want to have a Mac so they can show off their fashion accessory at their nearest coffee shop. It's more about a lifestyle and sort of "showing" their affluence or trendiness

 

No one here is stupid enough to think that just because a Macbook is aluminum it will magically run faster.

 

You can fry eggs on the Macbook Pro. Sure, that helps with heat.

Read the article again.

 

Apple has always chosen the high price point product. If any of you here are old enough to remember what an Apple II using a 1MHz (that's right "One MHz") 6502 8-bit CPU with 48KB RAM cost in the late '70s into the early '80s - up to $3K, you know what I mean. As one who used to be an engineer in this market, a high price point means less time to reach the break even point in sales for a new product. There will always be consumers willing and able to spend more for any product perceived better. You have to hand it to Apple's marketing department, as they have been successful in positioning the Mac above all other competing products. It's called niche or boutique marketing, as compared to mass marketing.

As an earlier poster said, it's not the Mac per se, aka the hardware, but OS X and the software that sells the Mac. That's why Steve Jobs is so protective of OS X. If OS X was released to run on any PC platform, the Mac hardware market would die, and quickly. Except for a few, I would be willing to state that the vast majority of Mac users are NOT techies. Most have never had their hands in the guts of any PC. And that's not necessarily a bad thing, as the typical or average computer user could care less about the inner workings of the hardware, as they are only interested in getting a job done through use of the applications software.