Framework Laptop

Anyone preorder one of these?

https://frame.work/


Processor Options
i5-1135G7 (8M Cache, up to 4.20 GHz)
i7-1165G7 (12M Cache, up to 4.70 GHz)
i7-1185G7 (12M Cache, up to 4.80 GHz)


Operating System
None (bring your own)

Windows 10 Home (Download)

Windows 10 Pro (Download)


Storage Options¹
None (bring your own)

WD_BLACK™ SN750 NVMe™ SSD 250GB

WD_BLACK™ SN750 NVMe™ SSD 500GB

WD_BLACK™ SN750 NVMe™ SSD 1TB

WD_BLACK™ SN750 NVMe™ SSD 2TB

WD_BLACK™ SN750 NVMe™ SSD 4TB

WD_BLACK™ SN850 NVMe™ SSD 500GB

WD_BLACK™ SN850 NVMe™ SSD 1TB

WD_BLACK™ SN850 NVMe™ SSD 500GB

WD_BLACK™ SN850 NVMe™ SSD 2TB


Memory Options
None (bring your own)

1x 8GB DDR4-3200

2x 8GB DDR4-3200

1x 16GB DDR4-3200

2x 16GB DDR4-3200

1x 32GB DDR4-3200

2x 32GB DDR4-3200


Connectivity
None (bring your own)

Intel® Wi-Fi 6E AX210 No vPro®

Intel® Wi-Fi 6E AX210 vPro®


Power Adapter
None (bring your own)

60W USB-C


Display
13.5” 3:2

2256x1504, 100% sRGB color gamut, and >400 nit


Battery
55Wh


Graphics
Iris Xe Graphics


Camera
1080p 60fps


Ports
4x User-selectable Expansion Cards

3.5mm combo headphone jack


Biometrics
Fingerprint Reader


Keyboard
Backlit


Warranty
1 Year Framework Limited Warranty


Weight & Dimensions
1.3kg

15.85mm x 296.63mm x 228.98mm

 

This seems like a good thing but in reality it really isn't, it's not really modular other than in token ways. For the price for a 13" non gaming laptop I can't see it being better than a locked in typical non-gaming laptop that's cheaper. For instance you can't ONLY upgrade the cpu, you have to buy a whole main board and deal with all that surgery/cost, basic non-gaming gpu is locked in. I get that they have replacing things easily in mind that's great but in terms of what you get from this fledgling company it's not that good. IF they decide to offer upgrades years later or are even around. For the 750$ base(no memory/no OS, no nvme,no wifi card,) they want you can get an older used full bird gaming laptop w memory/better cpu/wifi/windows etc etc etc or with only a wifi card and 16gb memory that'll cost you $1060 from their website. Add in the 139$ windows, which is included in the vast majority of laptops, and you've got almost 1200$ 13" non gaming laptop with a quad core cpu, which is all they offer in all cases. Gimmicky as he#.

 

There is one thing that they have which no other laptop on the market seems to have:
When the battery is charged and the laptop is plugged in to AC power, which is how most people use them much of the time, the battery is cut out of the circuit, not being charged to an early death.

 

Not sure that's true at all. Moreover, the more recent Alienware laptops have a setting to only charge the battery up to 80%, which is the optimal level from the longevity standpoint.

 

Yeah I think I've seen this on Lenovo, HP and my current MSI has it as well. I keep mine at 50-60.

 

Asus has something similar of some newer models, but it is software dependent on Windows not part of the hardware.

 

That's fine in practice unless you want to use Linux.

The AW solution works at the BIOS level, so should be compatible with Linux too.

 

Yeah haven' t checked the BIOS to see if mine has those battery options since I've been training it lately, it's just a tongfang so I assume it would.

As an update on their site you CAN get a non-"DIY" version that just has all the standard stuff and windows, but it's $1000 for a those specs and that just doesn't compete with a low end 3060 gaming laptop, wouldn't make sense in perf or price. I'm not trying to beat up this new company at all but it's just not what people want in fully modular systems at all, even not their fault as intel probably doesn't offer socketed laptop cpus anymore and of course they killed off mxm for the most part. So if the cpu or gpu fails you have pretty much just throw away junk when you look at what newer laptop mobos cost used it's not worth it. I miss those days when it was really modular. I hang onto my s5 for that reason, if the battery fails just replace it, not junk the whole thing or get some costly warranty or expert repairs. Examples of corporate dictatorial tyranny in the name of control and greed increasing over time.

 

Not included, the reduced price they pay which they get for installing it on all the laptops they produce is buried in the non itemized overall cost.
That is the retail price.
Framework is not charging people for a license they will never use, so they do not get it cheap.

 

What? of course it's included when you buy almost any computer. I never said it was free, but most of the time they don't give a choice or break it down as to how much you paid for windows like this company did. And it ain't $139 either, if you get a used computer with it on there, it's even less part of your overall cost. And of course framework doesn't get the much lower price, they're small and actually give you a choice as to byo or not, so no discount. I guess I assumed anyone here would know these things implicitly when I said that.

 

One of the primary complaints enthusiasts on this forum have raised, repeatedly, is a clear lack of defined upgrade paths and essentially baked in obsolescence by virtue of the BGA soldered components, most notably the CPU and GPU. Framework is offering a laptop that still has a soldered CPU, but everything else is removable and replaceable. I see this as a move in the right direction and a working proof-of-concept that a thin, light, and affordable laptop can be constructed without inverted motherboards, soldered RAM, along with a chassis where everything can be easily disassembled for maintenance or upgrades.

Yes, time will tell if this catches on. I don't see it as a gimmick; it is a necessary step towards creating electronics that are not immediately going to be e-waste in a few years. Honestly, if my M17 had the option to replace the MB with an upgraded CPU/GPU combo for even half of what I spent on the whole unit, I'd probably jump on it. OEMs could create a market for this, but they'd rather we throw our $2-3K investments in the bin and buy the next best whatever every 5ish years or less. Framework is hopefully changing this business model but the degree of success will be entirely dependent on how well they do with this first offering.

 

The gpu is also non gaming soldered bga. The two major items are no different than any other soldered mobo, nuff said tbh. The framework mobo is most likely custom, so you can only get it from them. I mean they can charge whatever they want for an "upgraded" or replacement cpu/gpu mobo and it should be less than the whole laptop of course but then who does the surgery to install? you do probably, an mxm gpu and socket cpu is pretty easy for most people to do but a whole mobo? Oof no thanks. I guess it depends on how much replacability they design into it though, maybe it will be relatively easy to do, time will tell. I mean workstations of the Precision era like I had/have were basically totally upgradable and replaceable by default, it's just went backwards and I don't see it coming back in meaningful ways, this is not meaningful imo. Price/Perf is also terrible here.

 

Would you agree it as a step in the right direction though? If people don't support companies which take steps in the right direction, we will never get there.

 

I suppose but if you notice it's all kind of custom stuff, really only the largest corps would make much difference but they abandoned easily upgraded laptops obviously. You're tied to this one company for faux upgradability imo If it was a megacompany you'd get millions or more buying them then the second hand market would make it much more feasible afa price and open availability. But if they take off then it could get to that. I'm not against this that's for sure but see it as a gimmick cash grab at the current state of things. They need to work on a cheap desktop socket cpu imo and start there, and in the future some sort of removable dgpu.

 

Not entirely correct. The laptop doesn't have a dGPU, it's has the integrated iGPU with the CPU. So, since the CPU is soldered, you are correct, but it doesn't have a separate soldered GPU. The unit does have TB4, which means eGPUs are an option, which is a good thing.

I'd beg to differ. iFixit gave the Framework a 10/10 for repairability. The laptop can be completely disassembled using the same bit driver. The entire thing is plastered with QR codes that take you directly to each item's purchase page. The whole thing is made to be easily taken apart and put back together again by anyone with basic tool skills. There isn't another laptop on the market right now that's made like this.

I highly recommend you checking out the iFixit teardown. Replacing the MB on this thing is probably way easier than repasting the CPU/GPU on an M17 R4 Alienware laptop. Even the display is easy to change out and in fact comes with different colored bezels for you to swap with.

Again, check out the teardown. This is a different laptop.

 

Huh that does look cool, but my other points stand. For the price/perf it's just not worth it over a cheap, hard to tear apart laptop. I get it you're paying a premium for all that and that's fair but not cost effective. For me all the upgradeability on anything 17" or under 1080p is about the cpu/gpu and mostly gpu bc most games are gpu bound and can be pushed onto the gpu if you have dsr capability then hdmi to an external screen if you want native 2k+. TB output just seems crazy, you'll get whatever card you can afford and then have to somehow connect up an external gpu, what a lot of trouble.This looks like a little step above a $500 laptop for double no thanks.

 

I agree that it is priced over market for comparable cost, superior laptops, but how do we move towards something like this without sending a signal to the bigger companies that this is something we want? Last time I checked, our wallets are about the best tool we have to move sentiment one way or the other. This laptop is progress towards sustainable systems that are not equivalent to desktops, but at least a better parallel to them.

 

Agreed no argument.

 

My only gripe is that there seems to be no mention of Thunderbolt. So no Thunderbolt Docks or eGpu. Seems like a really big misstep for a nearly perfect idea.

 

Yeah they say that modular ports are coming but there's no mention or option for that right now. TB would hopefully be an option but man for the price that should be included imo. I think it says usb4 included but that's it, pretty vague to be ordering it. Have to see what the reviews say to get full info I guess.

Edit: here's what pcmag says it has in the box. They need to work on their website to have that info.

"The port modules in the box include two USB-C connections, one USB-A connection, HDMI and DisplayPort modules, and a microSD card module. They come in small cardboard boxes that fit into slots in the shipping box."

https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/framework-laptop

 

Doesn't USB 4 with PD pretty much guarantee TB4 and that too with Intel 11th gen CPU which comes with TB4 support out of the box.
If it doesn't ship TB4, then I'm like avg consumer who went in blindly to buy a shiny new modular laptop.

 

What's PD?

 

If I don’t see it in the documentation then I assume nothing. Might be worth reach out to them to find out for sure.

Power Delivery?

 

It's all pretty confusing, even pcmag didn't mention usb4 but the manuf does. From what I found researching usb4 MAY have TB4 support but not necessarily? If they had a TB4 spec then it would have usb4 support but not vice versa in all cases. Have to confirm what usb4 means with the manuf.

"
Here’s where it gets a little confusing. The USB4 spec doesn’t require Thunderbolt support, so you may find laptops and other devices with a simple USB4 port. The Thunderbolt 4 spec mandates the use of USB4, however, including its optional features. Laptops that include Thunderbolt 4 capability will therefore support USB4 by default. “We know that Thunderbolt 4.0 is basically USB4,” according to Jeff Ravencraft, the president and chief operating officer of the USB-IF, in an interview.

Put simply, you may see "USB4" peripherals referred to as "Thunderbolt 4" devices, instead!
"

"But the assumption that USB4 would always include Thunderbolt is, according to the specification, not always true. The published spec makes it clear: It’s up to USB4 device makers to support Thunderbolt. "

https://www.pcworld.com/article/361...oducts-are-here-what-to-know-what-to-buy.html

From other research USB4 xxxDOESxxx MAY have TB3 support so you have that.

EDIT:

"While USB4 spec is based on Thunderbolt 3, support of interoperability with Thunderbolt 3 products is optional for USB4 hosts. That means a USB4 port won’t necessarily support all features of Thunderbolt 3 product."
https://www.dignited.com/53093/usb4-vs-thunderbolt-3/

In either case I would think when they actually have modules available it would have a tb4 option there. Still for 750$ base if you're looking for TB eGPU that's another $200+ for the card plus some sort of rig for the card on top of that, oof.

 

It is Power Delivery.

Hmmm, with more things getting enabled/disabled on the fly through BIOS/firmware updates documentation for features included might change accordingly! But having a documented feature is better than plain marketing which I agree.

This makes it more confusing since we don't know if the USB4 comes with TB4 and also proper certifications that complies with spec and works with all newer or backwards compatible with most dongles.

 

One would think all these review sites or people that got a unit for review would atleast test it to see if it has thunderbolt of some sort. Would just be nice to know.

 

Yeah I was browsing through the reviews and there's not been any mention of tb support at all, one did say they tried to plug in a tb3 peripheral but it wasn't accepted, they had to use hdmi for video out or some such but that's it. Have to even wait for real customers reviews I guess because for tb there's no real information available. If tb is really important for purchasing decision I would steer clear of this until it's clarified. They can cust costs in a hidden way pretty easily by cheaping out on the ports capabilities, just see my sdcard port which is only 25mbps ugh

 

You bought a retail unit?

 

Huh? unless otherwise specified I'm always talking about computers in my signature. I think it's pretty clear on the chances of me ever getting a framework from this thread right?

 

That's why I asked since I was pretty sure you will skip this generation and wait how their model matures and only then buy a good PC with mid-range to pretty strong dGPU upgrades.

 

Oh idk I'm more about price/perf then anything, mid range dgpu just for gaming is basically it. For an internet/cad machine something used for 500 or less is totally fine whether it's upgradable or not. Unless they do socketed stuff again I can't see upgradable being in my future in laptops. Pretty much everything out there has all the ports I need so port modules would not be anything I'd ever value much. These modular ports take up more room than just integrated on the mobo anyways. A good used laptop or new one in the same price range for 3-4 years as a primary is totally doable and preferred. For this 2060 15.6 I spent less than 750 new. Just make sure you buy only during holiday deals and you're good to go. I could see another tongfang variant bc they have options like mux switches etc decent pricing. Certainly no lower than 15.6" for home use and moderate travel use.

 

Thunderbolt™ is an Intel trademark, so presumably they can't mention Thunderbolt™ until it passes Thunderbolt™ certification.

That quote was dated in April, so either there is a long queue to be certified, or problems were found. Which requirements might be difficult? (According to this page, Thunderbolt™ 4 certification requirements are recursive? Or are those up-to-four connections between the dock and the laptop?)

Some hope for eGPUs

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So you're saying from the quotes that it does have TB3 or TB4 support? If so then if that's important to you and paying the premium for this brand/concept then I guess it's recommended. Still the whole egpu thing seems very very niche to me. If you have a card you want to use laying around I guess but just looking at those egpu rig prices alone is a turnoff to me, ymmv. IMO if you go that route just get either a high 3070 level gaming laptop or a desktop, not much price difference nor space requirement difference things huge, especially if you don't have a GPU laying around. Razr Core X is like $400 new over 200 used. Don't need to mention new gpu prices right? 1200$ framework+600 gpu/egpu rig=1800$+ oof.

 

Linus is now an investor in the company. He's not sure what he will do going forward with regard to him personally covering laptops, but I still think that when a such a video appears on his network, whoever is presenting needs to disclose that he is a financial stakeholder in Framework. Maybe he doesn't legally need to go that far, but it would certainly give peace of mind to the audience.

 

It's good he did that, I don't follow his channel so don't know if he covered FM before this though. Seems to have a lot of people who put a lot of trust in his opinions.

 

Purchased the Framework laptop and it arrived a couple days ago. So far the only hiccup was due to Windows 10 pro requiring a little work-around action to get a 2015 dell monitor drivers properly recognized. Other than that, no drama so far.

 

Upgradable Framework Laptop Gets Marketplace to Buy Swappable Parts
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/bga-venting-thread.798775/page-288#post-11123392

 

I wish they had a 17" 16:10 version :/
Like the LG Gram 17 or XPS 17. I need more laptops with that form factor.