HD 4650 in (I)FL90/91

Thought it would be more convienient to have a own thread for all the HD 4650 related problems as the HD 3650 thread is pretty busy. First off: I did not install a Mobility Radeon HD 4650 in my laptop YET. However, I think it woul be a great upgrade. I'm very happy with my HD 3650 but I wana get the most out of my current laptop since I'm not able to affort a new laptop yet. Thus I'm planing to buy a HD 4650 for my IFL90, which would mean an 78% increase compare to my HD 3650 and an at least 85% increase compared to the stock 8600M GT (even more since the stock 8600M GT is only DDR2). [ Source]

Anyway, I wonder where I can buy a HD 4650... I tried this site but the support REALLY sucks... they wouldnt even believe that it is possible to exchange the graphics card in the (I)FL90... anyways, after some e-mail conversation I found out that the cards offered there are all versions with DDR2 memory. On ebay I can't find anything... What about this acer specific page? They offer DDR2 versions as well, but how about the "VGA Board M96.1Gb 900MHZ MXM " is it compatible to the (I)FL90? Altough I fear the 900MHZ version is MXM 3 since MXMII goes only up to 800MHz or am I mistaken?

I really would like to get my hands on a HD 4650 with DDR3 or GDDR3 to test if it runs in the (I)FL90... I'm currently running a HD 3650 256MB DDR3 with 605/705 MHz @ 1.1V in my laptop which only goes up to 81°C under full load (e.g. 3+ hours of GTA IV thus real maximum system load) so there is still room for stronger hardware as the HD 4650 can also be undervolted from 1.2V to 1.1V with stock clocks which are enough for me since the +200 pipelines are already enough to greatly increase the performance.

Of course it would be great to get my hands on a HD 4670 and install that one in my FL90, however, that card is even more rare on the internet than the HD 4650 and the temperature would most likely pose a problem even with undervolting the GPU and CPU... especially as my laptops begins to throttle down extremely as soon as the temperature of either CPU or GPU hits 93+°C...

 

the 900mhz is MXM3.0 Type B. It won't work. You could always try to get the ddr2 hd4650 and overclock it to hd4670 clock for the core to make up for the slow memory.

 

<style class='Hidden'>I agree with Ayle</style>

 

What's up with the empty post?

 

Good question.

Anyway, I found this offer. It's just 112 €. I paid 139 € for my HD 3650 on ebay. Is there any difference between that card and the other HD 4650 acer offers since they are 169 €.

Also can I just order there without having acer customer ID and stuff like that? Anybody got some experience with that? Otherwise I'll just write them an E-Mail.

And does anybody know a rough percantage or has some reference on the performance difference between HD 4650 DDR2 and (G)DDR3 version?


I really wanna update because there certainly is one problem with the HD 3650: The small VRAM. The card runs fine when everything is in it's memory but you can rally see the framerates drop once the card has to put new stuff in the memory, so you have stutter every 5 - 10 seconds. You can see the difference for example in newer games like GTA IV which use really big textures: I play it at exactly the same setting and it subjectively ran better with the 8600M GT, besides the HD 3650 has severe shadow clipping errors in GTA IV, but I think thats a problem with all ATI cards

 

Beside the different part number, 006 instead of 005, I don't see any difference. You are better off asking them directly. About the performance, the hd4650 gdd2 is weaker than the 9600m gt which is weaker than the hd4650 gddr3. But the ddr2 version of the hd4650 is better than the gddr3 version of the hd3650.

 

You sure about that!? The HD 4650 has double the ammount of shader units compared to the 9600M GT... think the HD 4650 DDR2 would still be faster than the 9600M GT if one just looks at the facts. On Notebookcheck the HD 4650 is listed as having 12458 points on 3DMark05, the 9600M GT has 9592. The HD 4650 with DDR2 at most 20% slower than the (G)DDR3 version, which still would ammount to 9966 points. Anyway, those are just artificial benchmarks... many games are optimized for Nvidia cards so the 9600M GT may be the better deal compared to the DDR2 version fo the HD 4650 and personally I like Nvidia cards more anyway but that is no upgrade option for the IFL90 anyway.

I'm now going to contact the acer support, the MSI support (about buying the HD 4670) and the guy from that polish forum who already installed the HD 4670 in his lapop, hopefully he speaks English...

 

I revised my ranking:

Code:

HD4650 DDR2 = 9600m GT< hd4650 GDDR3

. The HD4650 does around 5300 in DDR2 version. The scores you saw on notebookcheck are for the GDDR3 version.

 

It's very, VERY hard to get an MSI GPU, but not impossible. I wish you luck to figure out a way to do it, there are back doors for everything

 

Sad, that you cannot tell the way you got it...

Well one way I can imagine would be to get somebody that actually owns the EX625 to contact the support saying that he lost warranty and his video card is broke (I actually read about quite a few people having had problems with their HD 4670) and that they want to replace it on their own.

However, first I want try my luck with the MSI support myself.

 

<style class='Hidden'>You almost got it</style>

 

All these empty posts... very mysterious.

Anyway. MSI Support answered in a very friendly e-mail... but they cannot sell the parts not can they tell me who is selling them. Sad, but I expected that much. I had no answer from the acer shop about the difference between the two versions. If I could just find a HD 4650 DDR3 version... I think the cooling system of the IFL90 is too weak for the HD 4670 anyway, because even the HD 3650 would go up to 110°C or something like that if I'd run it at 1.2V.

 

Something is wrong with your cooling system: even when I overclocked mine to 760/850 at 1.2v the maximum I reached was 95. And that was during the hot Texan summer.

 

Well, yeah, I think it's not the cooling system but my CPU. Actually I can overclock the HD 3650 pretty well but as soon as I stop undervolting the CPU the temperature jumps up by 20 - 30°C and then throttling kicks in... very anoying.... but yeah, seems like my T7500 is faulty also those newer intel CPUs seem very stable... The T9500 out there are quite cheap anyway so I'm looking for a replacement anyway.

What program did you use to check your temps? I use Everest Ultimate.

 

Shouldn't attempt the HD 4650 with the Compal IFL-90 in general because of the huge difference in power consumption.

(8600M GT = 20W whereas HD 4650 = 35W) So even if it the vbios was correct the graphics card may damage your system/itself.

The GeForce GT 240M would be much more safe (23 Watt) however you would certainly need to update the vbios. I wonder if the vbios included in later Compal model (such as Compal KHLBX; HLB0105; NVIDIA N10P VBIOS: 62.94.66.00.22) bios releases would be compatible with the IFL-90's 1.18 bios...

 

Unfortunately the GT240M isn't true mxm. Only in form factor nothing else. Lacks vbios chip meaning won't work in other mxm 2.1 laptops. The very best mxm II 2.1 card is the 9600M GT 512mb DDR3 card! The 4670 DDR3 card would smash it but it basically not available to anybody other than msi owners.

In 3dmark06 scores this is what the most available decent unlocked mxm 2.1 cards can roughly achieve.

8600M GT 256mb DDR3 -4800 (stock) 6000 (OCed) :rarely seen on ebay now, available from gentechpc and excaliberpc although stocks maybe almost empty

4650 1GB DDR2 - 5200 (stock) 6000-6200 (OCed) :supplied via acer and soon mxm-upgrade

9600M GT 512mb DDR3 -5200 (stock) 6500-6800 (OCed) :common on ebay

Therefore probably better off getting the 9600M GT out of the 3 cards. There is also a 9650M GT DDR3 card but is only available through zepto which apparently is in middle of liquidation, in the same way the even faster GT130M is available however at the moment it is still not supported by nibitor meaning the vbios cannot be modded yet to allow it to run at full speed. Maybe a few of these cards will hit ebay we shall see. Also we may see some 46xx DDR3 cards hit ebay sometime during next few months...

 

No Nvidia card other than the original 8600m Gt will work. The embedded vbios prevents any upgrades of that sort. You are stuck with ATI cards.

 

Like Ayle said Nvidia will not work and is much more expensive anyway. HD 4650 will work perfectly, I'm pretty sure of it. If you undervolt the GPU - which is possible - the cooling system should be able to handle it. Up until now I never used a notebook cooling pad so I still have that option to lower the temperature. Only the HD 4670 could pose a problem, but I can always undervolt the card and downclock it to the level of a HD 4650 and still retain the advantage of GDDR3 and the option to overclock it while using a cooling pad. I would also apply Arctic Cooling MX-3. The only real problem is getting the HD 4670 or a HD 4650 with DDR3.

Anyway, I don't worry about the cooling that much, after all the HD 3650 has 30W current consumption and runs cooler than the 8600M GT which supposedly had 20W.

 

Heya,

I have just noticed that the HD4650 (DDR2) is now available from mxm-upgrade for 200 euros. As the stock 8600M in my IFL90 broke some months ago, and I havnt gotten around to fixing it, I thought now would be a good time to try!

What I am wondering is, how much work is involved in installing this card?

Specifically:
1) Would I need to use a dremel or some tool to modify the shape of the heatsink to accomodate it? (I haave no experience doing this, but I gather probably yes?)
2) Would I need to do anything with the vbios for it to work (I gather probably not, again no experience here?)
3) Is cooling going to be an issue, and if so, is it easy to undervolt the card in order to do so?

Taking into account the 8600 in the laptop is broken, and thus I can't see what I'm doing if anything needs doing beforehand!

If this was more hassle than it was worth, I was also tempted by the cheaper (but slower) 3650, but I have the same queries as above again, as forum posts seem ambiguous as to what actually needs to be done to go from having no working graphics card, to an IFL90 up and running with a properly installed and working 3650/4650 (perhaps this ambiguity is due to various minor differences between cards people are getting etc?)

Any help wouldbe very, very much appreciated! I've been without a proper machine for too long now, so I look forward to trying to get it fixed!

Thankyou,

James

 

First try to bake the 8600M GT to revive it so it will propably last another couple of months, you have nothing to lose anyway (search google and/or this forum for baking methods). If you want to replace the card, then I'll quote my other post:

 

How about: http://www.mxm-upgrade.com/Store_13.html

 

You might be interested in this thread: its about upgrading your gpu in your acer, but there is a lot of info about mxm slots and stuff like that:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=396320

More specificly for the ati hd 4650:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=399430

Here is a link to a store that sells the ati hd 4650.

http://www.ipc-computer.eu/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=ati+radeon+hd+4650

Enjoy reading and GL with your upgrade. As soon as I know if AC2 will be playable on my 5920g with the ati hd4650 i'll folow in your footsteps

 

Heya,

Thanks a lot for your replies, they have been very useful! Im going to get on ordering a 4650 and see what happens! I'll keep you posted

James

 

Hi, its me again... sry, I'm simply new to all that...
So do you Guys think, with the new 1.18 it is possible for the IFL90 to use another Nvidia-Card (e.g. the 9600M GT)?
I'M really upset because me idiot bought one before finding this forum... just searched at the wrong places...
Greetz,
Multi

 

I just found many models, lately even for 9600M GT, HD 4650, 4670 on Ebay - just have a blink on that
But wouldn't the HD 5650 be a perfect alternative for the other 46xx because of only 17-19W power consumtion? That would solve the heat problem... Are they siutable for the FL90? Didn't found Information about the socket...
Thx and best regards,
Multi

 

The new BIOS will not add support for other NVIDIA cards.

All HD 5000s use the new MXM 3.0a or b standard - HD5650 uses MXM 3.0a so it will not work in the FL90.

 

Ah, k, so no possibilities for any 5xxx an low power consumption... that's a pity
Hm, maybe its just the best buying a new Notebook? Hm... but no money so far and secondary: That's booooring
Greetz and thx

 

Yeah, it just has a nice feeling to upgrade your own Laptop ;-) I would have done it just for that although the ratio of performance increase per dollar/euro/whatever spend will be much better if you buy a new laptop.

 

Depends, for me upgrading and keeping my Clevo up to date was not that expensive.

 

True, I was not specific enough there. I'm planing on upgrading my Clevo and I think I will make a better deal then buying a whole new laptop.

However, I was relating to the FL90 as the strongest solution available in practice is the HD4650 DDR2 which is around 200 €. For ~700 € you could get the KHBL2 a solution with a way newer CPU and a 5000er mid range GPU. Not that I recommend this laptop but if you solely look at the price/performance ratio an upgrade to the HD 4650 DDR2 is not that great. It is, however, very stylish and I really liked my FL90 and would rather have upgraded it then trading it for a KHBL2.

 

Has anyone ordered from this site: (the one for 105 euro)

http://www.laptop-ersatzteile.de/index.php?a=201346&ref=Elmar.com

Because i want to know if they really ship this product or just collect your money...

 

Last time I wrote them an E-Mail (a couple of weeks ago) they told me that they do ship the card for that price. But they have to reorder the card which means they could increase the price but then you have to agree to it otherwise they will give you all your money back. They cannot simply collect your money without giving you anything.

 

I am still waiting for an order from that site (the HD 4650 I ordered on 24th of march). I just emailed them to ask where it was, because if I log into my account, it still says payment has not been received, despite them emailing me in fact to confirm it had been. I'll let you know when I successfully receive it.

 

Any news , thinking about ordering mxm 3650 ddr3 instead. dont want to spend 200 euro

 

I nearly acquired a MSI 4670 512mb ddr3 mxm 2.1 card from a supplier. However he said it burned out when he was testing it in his acer 6935. Sadly it appeared to be his only one too...

 

Too bad... I still would love to see that card in a FL90, unfortunetely I was unlucky too.

 

Also my 8600m gt finally crapped out and overheated yesterday. I will try to bake the card in my oven or dish out 200 euro for a 4650 ddr2.

 

No news yet, still waiting! Got an email today saying they had to reorder from ACER and they said it would be about a week until they got said shipment in! I'll let you know if and when I get the card.. if I dont have it still in a couple of weeks I'll probably start asking for a refund! I've been without a laptop for far too long now..

 

Hi. I have a phoenix with compal (i)FL90/91 ... and the 8600MGT is old and broken. I search this:
Ati mobility hd 4670 M96-XT 216-0729051 DDR3:
ATI MXM A B I II III IV VGA Video Cards DDR DDR2 DDR3 HD 4570 M92 XT 4670 M96 4870 M98 4860 M97 Set Accept Paypal - Detailed info for ATI MXM A B I II III IV VGA Video Cards DDR DDR2 DDR3 HD 4570 M92 XT 4670 M96 4870 M98 4860 M97 Set Accept Paypal,AT

Ati mobility hd 4650 m96 216-0729042 DDR2:
ATI MXM A B I II III IV VGA Video Cards DDR DDR2 DDR3 HD 4330 M92 SE 4530 4650 M96 4830 M97 4850 M98 5850 Set Accept Paypal - Detailed info for ATI MXM A B I II III IV VGA Video Cards DDR DDR2 DDR3 HD 4330 M92 SE 4530 4650 M96 4830 M97 4850 M98 5850

Do you think that some of this grafics cards can run well in the compal? I know that the ati 3650 run very well, and the 3670 (is little better)?

I am searching some good grafic card for muy compal

 

I wouldn't trust that reseller, especially since he is just spamming all the different MXM, ddr types, and ati chip types. For the 2nd auction, that is an Asus card which is a flipped mxm, won't fit in the FL90.

Try taking out your 8600m, clean up the goop, put it on a dish plate. Have some towel paper in between the plate and the card bottom. Preheat the oven to 350 to 400F, and let the card cook in there for 2-4 minutes. Don't touch the card for half an hour when cooling, and try to see if the card works again.

In my experience, upgrading to 4650 can yield unknown results. One guy here has good results. For me however, the pci-express link keeps dropping from x16 to x1 when running games, which makes for abysmal performance. I traced the problem to the either the card is broke or the FL90 bios is doing it.

 

But only if you activate powermizer, right?

As to the reseller. He doesnt seem trusted, nor does he seem to sell to individuals - your better of with ebay. Decide between temporary solution (baking the 8600M GT) or buying a HD 3650 or HD 4650. HD 3670 makes little sense as it is just a overclocked HD 3650. You can achieve same results. Be sure to picke a HD 3650 with GDDR3 if you want a performance increase, however the HD 4650 performs better even with DDR2.

 

I finally asked for (and got) a full refund on the order I made back in march for the 4650 from Vilotec - Ersatzteile & Zubehör, 2 months have passed and I got nowhere. On the plus side, they did give me the refund promptly, so I assume they are just having a hard time getting hold of the card,

Unfortunately I'm still no closer to having a working laptop, Anyone have any quicker/more reliable sources for working cards (3650 gddr3 perhaps)?

 

There is a ebay seller with multiple 3650 256mb ddr3 for only $85 with free shipping. The feedback on previous auctions for this item were positive, so I don't think it was a bait and switch with regular ddr2 memory.

 

It drops to pci-e x1 no matter what. I tried more than 5 or 6 different drivers (catalyst 8 to 10 series). Also tried windows 7 default drivers. I did disable ati powerplay and reboot, but that doesn't solve the problem. Tried win xp 32 and win 7 64. Tried compal bios 1.09, 1.10, 1.12, 1.13, 1.16, 1.18, and 1.19.

I tried cleaning the pin contacts on the card interface. Found nvidia's mxm spec and tried taping up certain pins to force it to run at slower x8 speed, but that caused it not to boot up. Tried taping up pins that were linked to what the nvidia spec called throttling mxm speed, but that didn't change the bandwidth dropping.

The compal bios reports 256mb, the original amt of the 8600m gt. Windows and ati drivers fully recognize the 1gb of vram. Tried several different ati 4650 vbios, but that didnt solve the problem either.

 

Quick question: Did you overclock anything in any way? The problem might be that the Southbridge is not getting enough juice. Also did you alter anything that influence the power flow to the laptop? E.g. use of weaker PSU or something?

In any case the problem seems to be quite common and is not restricted to the Compal FL90. So I don't think it's just connected to your upgrade. Also try this solution I found on the web:

 

I believe that was from a dell forum where the users notebook had a quadro fx card. Tried looking for that string or anything similar in the registry, but it just doesn't exist. I dont think its the power because the original 8600m gt stays at x16. I am returning the card and have a 3650 ddr3 on the way, hopefully that works out.

 

That is no indication, the Mobilty Radeon HD 4650 draws a lot more power than the 8600M GT. But your right, power should not be the issue because the Mobility Radeon HD 4650 seems to work in other Compal FL90s...

 

what is the cheapest place to find a 4650 DDR3 or a DDR2. i found a 3650 DDR3 for $85 but the 4650 is so much better. i found a seller from china that lists his for $299 with Acer Bios and $255 with Toshiba Bios its a Ati 4650 with DDR3 512mb. i am pretty sure the one with Acer Bios will work over the Toshiba one.

 

Hi Where did You find those card exactly?? Can You provide some links I'm intrested myself in those.

 

i found some merchants on alibaba.com that sells them and some times on ebay for around the same price. i dont find them on ebay that much anymore for the MXM 2.1 version.