Help : another buying decision

I cant make up my mind between Compal HEL80 and Asus S96J, Both are 15.4 wide screen notebooks re-branded and sold with similar specs and price.

Differences
VGA: HEL80 GF 7600 Vs S96J X1600
Manufacturer: Compal (haven’t heard of Compal before) Vs Asus (known brand for me)

I want the best performance and build quality. I had the opportunity to use a H80 at a showroom; build looks solid except for the flexible keyboard (which worries me a little). I have not seen S96J so can’t really compare the two in terms of build quality.

I have searched the web for a good comparison of Go 7600 vs. Mobile X1600; came across few forum threads, wasn’t that helpful. Ppl claim that X1600 is slightly faster. How about in real life gaming performance? Not 3D marks.

 

check the reviews of both of them on this site. I think it will help your decision. The graphics cards are considered equivalents in actual real gaming.

 

The HEL80 has a number of features not found on the S96J like fingerprint scanner, optional BT (only available on Z96J standard), internal TV tuner, PCMCIA & ExpressCard slots, and of course the brushed aluminum styling versus a rather generic plastic casing.

The Asus, however, will give you higher benchmarks. If you read through my review (link in my signature), I covered the major differences between the two systems as well as the gaming performance issue. With overclocking and 600+ 3DMarks of improvement, I felt the gaming experience didn't change a much.

But if you're really into getting every last extra FPS, I'm pretty sure the Asus can squeeze out a few extra with its higher benchmarks.

 

On the issue of the flexible keyboard, it is all relative. I personally do not notice the flex.

As in real life gaming performance, http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=74146 gives you a good summary. Personally for me, what clinched the deal between the S96J and the HEL80 was the graphics card. I went with nVidia as their support for Linux is relatively better than ATI's.

At the same time, it can come with a higher resolution at a slight hit.

 

Thanks for all your replies. Went through all the benchmarks and reviews well.. I don’t think VGA performance has any significance in my decision anymore. One last question about graphics: is the video memory (all 256MB) of 7600 dedicated?

I think now it comes down to build quality and features.
I generally prefer glossy screens. I can get the Asus with WXGA (1280x800) glossy, HEL80 only with matte but with higher WSXGA+ (1680x1050) resolution. And yes, the additional gimmicks like finger print scanner and integrated camera are bonuses. I have so far sticked with reputed manufacturers like Dell and HP, this is the first time I am thinking of venturing into ODM products only because current Dell and HP models don’t offer decent affordable graphics solution in a 15” package. HEL80 seems to be the better deal, but still I am bit afraid to go with a not so popular Chinese brand. BTW where is the HEL80 made ? China or Taiwan ?


At the moment these are the pros I see for each product
Asus : Brand name, larger community therefore better support ??
Compal : Maybe better build quality (but keyboard ), features

Tough decision

 

Yes, it is 256 MB of dedicated VRAM. There are no Turbocache versions of the go 7600.

You can also get the HEL80 with a WXGA glossy screen.

Read through the Compal FAQ at the top of this forum. There's a lot of information about the company. Compal is the #2 notebook manufacturer in the world. They make Dell & HP & other brands' notebooks for them. This time they made the HEL80 to their own specifications--not according to the cost restrictions of their OEM customers.

 

I am in Japan, therefore I don’t have that many options. There is only one large Japanese re-seller selling HEL80 [re-branded as Prime Note Chronos IN (google translated funny english)]; they only provide WSXGA+ matte screen. Same goes for the Asus, only WXGA glossy.

 

I see. Well if you prefer the higher resolution, I will say that this particular WSXGA+ matte screen is specatcular. Having used both, I now know that I prefer matte screens.

I personally feel that WXGA is too low of a resolution for a 15.4" screen. But it's all personal preference.

Either way, you can't go wrong with either system.

Good luck.

 

Just when I was leaning towards HEL80 I noticed that the Geforce 7600 Go in HEL80 is severely crippled. Previously I only looked at general 7600 Vs x1600 benchmarks, but seems that HEL80 is at least 25% slower than a standard 7600 at stock 350/350. Oh, man.. why did they do that ? Saving battery power is one thing, but why put a good card and then cripple it? If Compal wanted an energy conserving notebook then they should have put something like a Go 7400 or X1400. I really don’t understand their logic.. I know it is still capable of playing modern games at an acceptable level, but I don’t feel so excited about HEL80 anymore.

From what I gathered from HEL80 OC thread it seems the max core/mem speed achievable with this system is around 480/370, memory is still way too slow compared to standard 450/500 which is simply unacceptable as an “over clock”

 

I wrote a bunch about overclocking the go 7600 in the HEL80 in my review (link in signature). Like I said, you will probably get a few extra FPS by going with the Asus, and the lower resolution may net you a couple more.

Even with the lower clock speeds, gaming performance is fine on the HEL80. But it's understandable if you end up choosing the Asus because of this. You would be giving up a lot of features for the same price though in your particular situation.

Good luck.

 

Wow... I'm seriously getting sick of people have the same round and round debates over and over again... These posts all already exist from someone else..

Long story short.. Either system will play any game out today to satisfaction, and both with "suck" 1 year from now... As I've posted probably 40 times now... Using the higher resolution matte screen, running my game at 1400x1050 with all ingame settings nearly maxed, I get reliably, 35+ FPS playing BF2142. same goes for FEAR.. I have the video card overclocked to about where Donald stated they did it in the thread you have apparently looked at about OCing the card, and I have all the card options set to performance.. My game looks like a movie... Any MMO is going to run fine now and probably for the next few years... they all have last gen rendering engines to keep up with the size of the environments they load.

As for "OMGZOR! 0n1y 35+ FPZ!"... if your eyes and brain are so evolved to see more then the 27fps the rest of the world see's, no card will make you happy...

Chrisyano, you really should put a sticky up about posting redundant things like this... I know I've restating the above for atleast half a dozen people since I got my HEL-80 at the end of the summer.

 

human beings cannot distinguish any frame rate above 30 fps, it's all just bragging rights after that, i find with my eyes' 20/20 vision i dont start to notice refresh rates until around 27-28 fps, so you guys wanting 60+fps are just wasting your money

 

Actually, human beings CAN in fact distinguish more than 30+ FPS, sort of....TVs, movies, and other "filmed" media use 30 FPS because they include such things as blurring between frames, which makes it appear to be smoother. That generates the 30 FPS "myth." Humans technically can't see past 30 FPS, but the human eye captures frames in motion, just like film or TV cameras.

Since games can't produce that same type of effect (frames in a game are rendered statically, almost like a slideshow, whereas filmed media are captured in motion just like the eye does), for a game to look that smooth to the human eye, it needs to be around 50-60 FPS. However, 40-45 FPS tends to be pretty acceptable, and any increase beyond that tends to produce an incremental rather than a drastic change. Trust me, I used to review video cards, and did a lot of studying. And a lot of staring at games at various framerates.

Bottom line is, games have to render past that magic 30 in order to produce an image in motion for the eye to capture in motion, making the motion appear smoother. Your eye doesn't exactly get any more frames, but it DOES capture a motion image rather than a static frame.

Now beyond those numbers in the 45 zone, mind you, it's all about bragging rights. What do you expect? Gamers tend to be competitive.

 

lol i stand corrected

 

That 45fps needs to be a minimum, though Not a max. Or even an average. Otherwise you will feel that you have choppy gameplay.

Either way, if you want top-level 14" graphics now, I'd look at an A8jp. I love my HGL30, but I'd trade it in a second for a similarly equipped A8jp

 

Too bad the A8j series is more expensive than the HGL30, so it wouldn't actually be a "trade" But there's tradeoffs for everything; personally, I like the design of the HGL30 better. better speaker positioning, the optical drive is on the RIGHT side, which is also the right side . Lower battery life, no bluetooth on the A8js....these are important to some people, but not everyone.

You know, these two machines compete VERY directly with each other. Too bad there's no nice, tidy "comaprison" review posted anywhere that compares the two directly.

 

True. I would love it if my Compal had a full-speed graphics chip (ideally a Go7700) and a 1440x900 graphics option like the A8jp though. The A8js, I'm not missing out against as far as I'm concerned.

 

Here's my mini review of the HEL80:

Pros:
- Nice touchpad
- Easy to type on keyboard
- Built in mic and 1.3 mp camera
- Built in finger print scanner
- Good graphics performer (Company of Heroes looks and runs great, as does CS: Source, RCT3, WoW, AoE3... you name it)
- Good battery life (with 9 cell that is)
- Nice brushed aluminum and solid case

Cons:
- Noisy keyboard
- Little bit of high pitched buzz in headphone output... only audible at low levels however (it has something to do with the processor apparently)
- Under clocked gfx card... not to big of an issue, though in CS:S I was able to get an extra 8 or so FPS without artifacts

 

I dont agree with this... BF2142 feels totally smooth as long as I've got 20+fps, and my average score per titan map is around 160 with bonus's(I get top 3 of a round ever 4 or so rounds), I'm not having trouble getting kills or killed from stutters... Some games require loads of FPS to feel smooth though.. FEAR needs around 40, most MMO's I've found smooth in the mid 20's up.. It's very biased on the game engine..

There are technologies used to introduce motion blur in graphics rendering game engines... They work by creating the motion blur right into the rendered still.

 

I think game smoothness is very subjective. To me, when I was benchmarking my HEL80 for my review--I really didn't see a big difference between stock and overclocked performance. I'm sure it was there, as FRAPS pointed out, but I didn't really notice it. Maybe I noticed a little when the FPS went up by 9--but not enough to make a big deal about. Perhaps everybody has their own threshhold of "smooth" framerates.

npaladin2000--I did get the ball rolling on the comparison reviews. My HEL80 review spends a lot of time comparing it directly against the S96J/Z96J. If I had either or both HGL30 and A8Js in hand I would gladly do one more of those.

 

The only "notice" I got when I clocked my card back up to about what Paladin posted on his OC thread was that during heavy fog effect scenes I didn't get jittery (smoke grenades/explosions) Normal gameplay didn't visually change, but I got about 8-10 avg fps more. That was enough to get the heavy fog scenes smooth.

 

Sorry for the late reply. I do know that above 30FPS is pointless. BUT I never said that I want 50+ FPS. I only said that HEL80 card is considerably slower (around 25~30%) than a regular 7600; if you look at some of the benchmarks you would see that a standard 7600 is hovering around 30FPS mark in most games with AA enabled, which leads me to assume that HEL80 will be running around 20FPS where the lag is noticeable. Those bench marks are for current games, what about games that comes out in couple of months?

You said you are getting 35+ in BF2142 and other games at the risk of overclocking, still you are not getting even the performance of a regular 7600 without OCing. I am just frustrated about Compal crippling a good VGA card for no good reason. If they wanted to provide good battery life they could have easily implemented some other way of underclocking the graphics adapter on user selection, rather than locking it permanently (according to the OC thread, mem wont do more than 380 meaning there is a hardware limitation, either they are using cheap slow mem or they have simply undervolted to save battery; one way or another it’s a hardware limitation put by them).

 

I think that, judging by your last posts, you would be happier with an Asus Z96J. Like I said in my review, I don't think the difference in performance despite different clockspeeds and benchmarks would be all that much. There will likely be a gain of at least a few FPS with the Asus though.

There's no point in complaining about something that can't or won't be changed. If it bothers you that much, simply go with the higher clock speeds.

 

Ok, I'll fluff up my answer a little bit for clarity sake... First off, I'm just getting tired of people asking this same question over and over like a broken record (hense somewhat sarcastic remarks).. then people reply to it, and they continue the same thread almost word for word as other threads on here.. I've seen this topic appear probably a dozen threads in the last few months I've owned my notebook. Anyways..

My huge point was this.. if you are after graphics power as you #1 for a machine.. there are more powerful options available then either machine you are interested in... Compal wasn't going for gaming awards when they made this machine, they were going for high end overall system... Which they did with flying colors...half a year ago... So here are you 6 or so months later in a cycle that states 1 year old systems for gaming are poor, and you are concerned that this machine isn't upto par for your needs, or needs 6 months from now. Fine.. then go look at one of the SLI systems if you REALLY want to fly for games.. or better yet, dont look at a laptop at all?

There seems to be a missing mindset for gamers buying notebooks...

The concern is to have the "best graphics they can without making the machine immobile", which compal did very well. This machine is marketed for the extended battery life, not graphics power.. If you truly want a "mobile desktop" then look at a dell XPS 2010, thats basically a desktop that folds into a small suitcase... Or wait another 6 months when the next gen cards come out and buy a machine then and you can actually get bleeding edge while its still bleeding edge, and not almost a year after a card is released.

As for this card being crippled.. its not... it was built for compal at the speeds it is for power conservation (the goal of the notebook) Essentially this notebook is full featured with dedicated video that can compete battery life with an integrated notebook.
Most games that were near complete, or completed during the first 6 or so months will be fine for playing on any given video card released during those same times. Part to remember is that developers are given machines with the same or lower hardware then you and I have when they design the software (many companies use older machines for devs to keep the programmers from making the game to powerful) (ID software exception), and marketing puts tons of pressure to make sure that the game will be available to the mass market, not 5% of it.. otherwise they will never get the return on the investment.

RTS/MMO/GTA style/Action&Adventure games tend to be good to run on 2-4 year old gear because they either use simpler engines to produce games faster, or they take so darn long to develop that by the time they are done developing, their dev gear is technically out of date. (Oblivion exception, but look how bad that release actually went for sales figures because of the negative feedback from performance issues)

Anyways, I could debate this for months, as well as slam more reading material from business, economics, and technology then you would need to read to get a 4 year degree, so I'll end here.

 

Much shorter version of what I just tried to say =P

 

Ok, I don’t want to get in to any arguments. I apologize for asking a question that has been more or less discussed before. Maybe the search I did before posting was bit hasty, anyways….

I am not in US and cant afford a $2000+ notebook. This and the S96J were the only affordable notebooks I found with decent graphics performance. I was just expressing my frustration in last few posts after I found out about VGA clockspeed issue. I still have not made up my mind cos I would like to see the Asus in real life before making a decision (local retailer told me that they will get a display model in coming weeks). If the build quality / screen and appearance is good then I will get S96J else HEL80.

I am not bashing HEL80, it is a good product, but they could have done better. Or at least should have left the option for enthusiasts to get the maximum out of VGA; like the Asus 8jm. Even though mobility (size) is important for me I don’t care much about battery life (it is my personal preference).

Besides, assuming that following reviews are accurate: Asus 8jm review (3hrs 40 mins) vs HEL80 review (3 hrs 45 mins) I don’t see HEL80 achieving anything at all by VGA underclocking! I think it is more of a cost reduction effort than maximizing battery life.

From what I have seen, HEL 80 is advertised as a gaming machine. The first thing advertised for this notebook is it’s graphics card (maybe along with C2D chip). But no where it says that the 7600 is underclocked, which in my opinion is kind of misleading the consumer.

Well…. As I said before, HEL80 could have been one of the best in it's class with both performance, features and portability if it wasn’t for the underclocked VGA.

Here I am just expressing my opinion, I think I got to know everything I wanted from this discussion. Thanks for all the constructive comments.

 

There's no argument here. It is quite obvious to me though that since you value the extra clock speed that the Asus is the clear choice for you. Others choose the aluminum styling and extra features of the HEL80. You really can't go wrong either way.

Now as far as A8Jm vs. HEL80 battery life, you need to consider these factors. Asus has a powermizer setting that underclocks the CPU, GPU, etc. The A8Jm also has a smaller LCD to power. If you are going by my review or even Chaz's, I don't think either of us underclocked anything before running battery life tests.

Of course they could have done better. But consider the amount of features and performance you're getting for a very reasonable price in either Asus or Compal. Compromises had to be made somewhere. It is a fact of life in the laptop industry.

Good luck with your final decision. I would recommend the Asus from what you've posted here though.

 

What a reseller markets the compal for, and what Compal directly sells it for are two entirely different things.. Of course a reseller is going to focus on the video card because that is the most important thing to a good number of people, and in the top 3 or so for the rest. You've got to remember Compal builts dozens of laptop models that are marketed under different names, I promise you, they have "gaming notebooks". This machine is honestly being marketed as a "desktop replacement with the battery life of an integrated video notebook with a smaller LCD".

This kind of dilema is like the person who buys an SUV and complains its not as smooth a ride as a cadillac... Buy for what you want it to do, dont buy it do what you want..

The fact that you started a thread at all pointed towards GPU issues tells me you have enough doubt to not want the HEL80, so dont drive yourself crazy over it.. Also remember that syntetic benchmarks dont really reflect real world performance. They also jump greatly year to year because of the "standard features they bench for" In the real world people that have used both machines, and collaborating people have gotten nearly the same FPS from both machines. Also remember that some games favor more towards ATI then Nvidia, so again, your results will be a little screwy from game to game.

I've personally run or seen on a hel80:
FEAR
Battlefield 2
Battlefield 2142
Supreme Commander Beta
Planetside
Guild wars (original through nightfall)
World of Warcraft
Tribes Vengeance
Oblivion

They all ran very smooth with most of the features cranks up, if not all of them at 1400x1050... I've also run ALL settings maxed if I drop to 1024x768 and used hardware adapter scaling to make it larger. (Pretty clean text still)

By smooth I mean how the game feels, not a generated number... This normally means 30's-50's in both resolutions. I personally dont use antialiasing because I dont like how it makes the images kinda blurry if there are lots of surfaces for it to be applied on, I use higher resolutions for that.. (If I can't ger rid of the jaggies, I'll just make them to small to see from where I sit looking at the screen!) Anyways.. that gives about a 10-15 fps hit (2x, 4x)

Again, if you are not NEEDING the machine now, I'd personally say wait until the new cards are released next year and get it while its hot.. I'm sure several machines from most manufacturers will be changed to have it so they can get rid of the remaining stock of last gen systems.

I'm tempted to contact the video card manufacturer and ask what else they make for this form factor.. Notebooks aren't built with brand new designs in each box, so there should be other stuff that will fit, whether there is anything better, that is another story.

 

I notice a HUGE difference on WoW from 30FPS to about 45-50. ANything after that, I can't see a difference at all. Seriously though, everything looks much smoother in WoW from 45-50 fps compared to 30fps.

 

Its an optical illusion created by the rendered environment. The more objects that "should" move, appear to make the game less smooth when they dont..

Want an example? Wave you hand in front of your face with all your fingers together as fast as you can.... Now spread out your fingers and do it again.. (Go ahead and do it.. no one is looking! ) Doesn't mean you weren't moving your hand as smooth, or your fingers were getting stuck in the air... =P Rich environments in games like that make it more noticable though when compared to normal FPS or RTS.. Thats part of the downfall of Oblivion..

I'm not actually a WoW player, I have tried it a few times, but one of my roomies ran it just because he asked if he could see how it ran.. I know he's got nearly 90mb of add-ons as well and he says those decrease the FPS a bit when compared to the standard UI. I'm not sure of the normal FPS, I just know he said "it was really nice and didn't go below 30 even inside the common area's in the cities" after using my machine with all the settings maxed @ 1400x1050. Then he asked if I'd give it to him..