Intel-TongFang QC7 (Element/Fusion 15/MAG-15/Vapor 15 Pro)

The beta mod has a 87c default limit, but excessive heat is generated more by the CPU than the GPU especially due to overclocked CPU and the RAM running at 3000/3200Mhz in these tests:

Spoiler

[\SPOILER]

Under normal clocks it doesn't generate as much heat. The CPU integrated memory controller (IMC) plays a major role in excessive heat production, which you won't see under stock conditions.

One thing I have noticed during my time with these systems is that CPU only load tends to heat up the GPU core to same levels, even if unused, due to the nature of the shared heatsink.

 

Woah, I assume this bios will be released to the public later when its stable? I'm surprised you were able to actually use overclocked ram. Which ram did you use?

I think 3.4 GHz is the sweet spot for the CPU to avoid getting the unit overheated from what I've seen other people post. How much is the CPU undervolted by on your machine? Did you try to see if propping up the back would yield lower temps? I know this sound silly but after having an Alienware m15 with 15 C less temps after simply lifting the back, I always check.

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The Prema Mod is still under evaluation...
The stock RAM that is used by Eluktronics can be overclocked stable to 3000Mhz CL 18-19-19.
Personally I am using these Kingston:

https://twitter.com/PremaMod/status/1185006101839962112?s=19

Propping up the system doesn't make a big difference like on Clevo's etc...speaking of which, their current designs lost my interest due to their lack of inovation...

 

I prefer the ram with that lower latency my Alienware m15 studders like a mofo in league every 14 secs or so, temps are fine in low 60Cs. I replaced the ram to Kingston with 15 CAS and the studdering is less but still there :/ something is wrong with my Alienware so I'm thinking I'mma just get the mag 15 as it seems to hold better clocks, temps AND surface temps along with good performance. Trying to see if I can get a good black Friday sale on this laptop hopefully.

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New review came out


Those 58 DB fan sound readings are giving me quite the scare lol I hope it's just his equipment.

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"are you a man, did your wimpy computer need more memory" Good and very funny review I am a bit sad that there aren't any XMG Fusion 15 reviews in English Actually, the only review I have been able to locate was one where Tom changed the keycaps...

 

It is noisy. Unfortunately I will have to return it, mostly because of that.
I need a laptop that allows gaming with a reasonable level of noise, which doesn't annoy people in the same room too much.

This laptop is quite nice, but not a good choice for my requirements.

 

Hold on, does it get that noisy all the time while you game? Like, continously? I am desperetely trying to escape from my old Dell 7577 which gets noisy during gaming. Thanks to B0B's videos I get low 80C while gaming, but it's still making raucous @ 50db at load.

 

I haven't tried the "Benchmark mode" (or Max Fans mode). I tried Enthusiast and Balanced with both combinations of Standard/Performance fan profiles. I believe the Enthusiast mode is around 50dB, but that is already too noisy for me.

I would say the sound profile is more annoying than the AW m15r1 I previously tested but...well, that one has terrible CPU cooling

I would have been happy to trade some CPU degrees and throttling for a quieter laptop, but unfortunately they don't let you set a custom fan curve, although I'm pretty sure that should be doable with a custom update to the Community-made Fan Manager

 

Yeah the AW m15 is supposed to have quieter fans but also an inferior heatsink.... wheras this laptop has a better heatsink and louder (or more annoying pitched) fans.

So neither is optimumum, you would have to take the fans out of the alienware and put them into this laptop... which I am guessing is simply not possible given that the fans are specific to each laptop.

But what I have always really wondered is: well what if you have some larger fans in a laptop cooling pad driving the airflow instead? Then you could install four 120mmm (or otherwise 140mm) Noctua fans into your laptop cooling pad. And have those forcing the air through the internal fans sort of 'coasting along'.

Would that kind of setup be any better / quieter? Assuming that you are at home (rather than mobile / moving around) and can then therefore have the option of using such a bulky external device. I'm not sure about this matter... but perhaps it might be worth investigating. Since they are really loud.

 

I think the solution in the end is something similar to what Dyson did with their vacuums to reduce noise. A chamber to isolate the noise and turbulence of the fans to allow for higher speeds and less noise.

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Would you prefer an Alienware m15 r1 with 2080 or this? Thats my question to you

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this.
Mainly because of m15's terrible CPU cooling performance (GPU cooling is quite good, if I remember correctly)

The AW m15r1 has better chassis, in my opinion. It feels sturdier and higher quality.
However m15 has glossy plastic (and big) bezels.

m15 pros:
- fans (they are not quiet anyway...but I found them less annoying)
- speakers
- build quality (it just feels more solid. Fusion 15 is magnesium but from the way it feels I'd guess its panels are just not as thick)

fusion 15 pros:
- mechanical keyboard, I loved the feedback (m15's is not bad anyway, and has numpad)
- CPU cooling
- thin bezels, smaller chassis overall
- my unit has 0% wear level, 93Wh. m15's batteries seem to always come with 5-8% wear level, which effectively means you get it with an 85Wh battery on average

 

I agree so if you had to pick which one would you stick with?

Some notes I have on the Alienware m15 that are pros
1. Despite the untested software that is ACC, it DOES let you do custom fan curves (on bios 1.4.1 anyways), let's you set fan modes PER game (which I don't think is an option on this unit)
2. There is an actual keyboard sdk for lighting integration with some games or utilities (although it is 4 zones.....)
3. 2080 Max q @ 90W is much less heat than 2070 Max q @ 115W if what perma says is true. There is also no low thermal throttle limit on the Alienware.
4. 240 hz display option is available
5. Numpad! If only there was a mag 17 with a numpad that weights less than 4.6 lbs....
6. Better speakers with good stereo separation
7. Fans aren't that much quieter but they make more of a low frequency whoosh sound than anything close to a high pitch whine.
8. Alienware graphic amp TRUMPS the thunderbolt 3 connection by as much as 30% on GPU bound titles which is huge if I want to game on a 3440 x 1440 monitor ay home on an eGPU I can upgrade.

Alienware m15 cons
1. The corners are sharp and dig into my body and hands when using it on my lap sometimes, something that I don't think happens with mag 15
2. Mag 15 is lighter and smaller in footprint, one of its main attractions
3. 144hz panel seems to have slightly better contrast and pixel response time vs alienware's panels (both the 144 and 240 hz panel)
4. Better CPU performance than i9 8950hk (since there is no 9th gen option with 2080 Max q on Alienware m15 r1)
5. Mechanical keyboard sounds like a big plus from what I've heard from several people (but it's potential isn't fully realized without a keyboard sdk to speak of)
6. Bigger battery with less wear as you mentioned
7. Windows hello! (I'd love to have this now that windows hello cameras are supported on Linux for sudo commands
8. Moddability, this might be to early to claim but I think this machine is easier to mod on a software level than Alienware, could be wrong
9. Really good cooling (at expense of noise...)


Based on all this would you pick the m15 or something else? I personally play games next to my wife and I can't get anything that's too loud that would bother her. Even the Max fans on m15 doesn't bother her which is why I use it as a benchmark of the max fan noise I can buy. But if this machine can run on enthusiast profile with auto @ 80% or 90% Max fan that's quieter or equal to m15 then it would be a winner for sure (would miss rgb programmability and speaker quality)


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Sorry, I don't think I can make that decision for you mag15 failed wifey's test, but it might work for you if m15 @90% is not too much

 

1660Ti Vs. 2070 model (ignore Physics/CPU score due to one sided OC):

https://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/20551530/fs/20749121

 

That's the problem, I don't know if the mag 15 fails because I haven't listened to the fans personally. If the fans on enthusiast + balanced fans or enthusiast + performance fans sound equal or better than m15 I'd be happy cause I wouldn't ever use it with benchmark mode fans but I don't know anyone who has had an m15 AND a mag 15 other than you. So you'd be the best judge to say if the fans are more annoying than m15 at both those setting levels.

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Including VAT.

But yeah, for some miraculous reason, Intel's EU pricing on the RTX 2070 is higher than Intel's U.S. pricing. And by no coincidence, Singapore's pricing (AftershockPC) exactly matches the U.S. pricing. We've been continuously raising this point with Intel but we keep being stonewalled so far. I guess it kind of makes sense. EU market is more difficult to support due to high fragmentation, leading to lower overall volume. Singapore however is using exactly the same SKU (with US Keyboard) like North America, so they can kind of ride on Eluktronik's coattails. Good for them!

// Tom

 

Want to confirm something real quick. We can use the enthusiast profile (with electroboost/overboost) and the balanced fan profile correct?

 

So according to Jarrod's channel, the vapor 15 has an 87C GPU thermal limit in exchange for lower CPU performance... I think this would have been a really good compromise given that mag 15 has electroboost. Or maybe the limits were set BECAUSE it has electroboost... The mystery continues...

 

Just came to post this. That seems like the better bios option then limiting the GPU. Then all you really would need is someone to come out with a custom fan control center and this laptop would be perfect.

 

Question is does it disable electroboost?

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I saw this as well, and I’m glad this is a thing. I just hope they fix the Balanced Mode and everything about it would just be awesome. I’m personally going for the Vapor 15 because shipping cost to my country (Philippines) from either the US or EU is insane. I would have opted for the 2070 MaxQ, but their Anniversary Sale on the 1660 Ti is just too difficult to pass up on. I also would have liked to see Eluktroboost-like technology in their Vapor 15, but I guess I can’t have them all.

 

https://twitter.com/PremaMod/status/1166618986555072512?s=19

 

I honestly don't fully understand if the hardware modification for electroboost/overboost is actually not included in some SKU. I haven't heard a single person say they DON'T have electroboost on the mag 15.

I think they just need to power limit throttle the CPU to 45w and 60w AND allow for electroboost.

@XMG do you know if electroboost/overboost is available if we mess with the power settings you mentioned earlier? For example: CPU GPU FAN
3 0 1 would be possible? Where 3 is the low CPU tdp and 0 is Max gpu with electroboost/overboost?




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There will mostly be a sale at the end of November due to the PC convention SiTEX in Singapore at end of November. The sale also runs on their online store. You might get a good deal on the 2070max q variant.

 

I unfortunately fly to Singapore November 20, so I have to place an order at least 2-3 weeks before I leave if I want to receive it around that time.

 

Tom have you been able to try the vapor bios vs the one intel sent you?

 

Interesting that the Vapor 15 was allowed to change the GPU temp limit while the MAG-15 and XMG 15 were told that this limit was impossible to change officially due to Intel's specs.

Comes at the cost of 85 degree CPU temp limit though apparently.

 

I think the Fusion is more annoying, but it was 2 months ago when I last tested the m15 so I wouldn't trust my memory too much.

 

I would rather that trade off. I never let the CPU run hotter then 85 anyway. I always undervolt and then set speed limit on the CPU to lower thermals.

 

Id take that trade off too AS LONG as electroboost/overboost stays. 115w 2070 is nothing to sneeze at and its performance is close to a 2080 Max q 90w

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Unfortunately people wont be able to test it as aftershock website does not have drivers or a bios up on their support page yet for the laptop.

 

Nice Results man! What tools are u using? XTU or do u prefer ThrottleStop?

 

Haha, mysterious indeed.

I just had a quick chat with a product manager at AftershockPC.

AftershockPC confirmed to me that they did not modify the BIOS in any shape of form and they are getting the same answer from Intel as we did: GPU Temp Target is set to 75°C by default and cannot officially be changed. There are no BIOS customizations or flavour for any global regions. One ring to rule them all.

The review sample at Jarrod's Tech is pretty much straight off the line from the Intel factory. The shipping process was rushed because AftershockPC in Australia only got stock very recently and Jarrod got needed his review unit ASAP.
AftershockPC currently has access to BIOS 0048 (our latest one is 0054) but my contact is not yet sure if it was actually flashed on the review unit. We will clarify this over the next few hours.

I have sent an e-mail to Jarrod to ask for clarification, to see which BIOS version is on his system. Not sure if he will reply to me since we never had any contact with each other prior to this day.

Now I have a couple of theories as to what happened here:

• Review Sample might have a blatantly outdated factory BIOS with bugs and/or inconsistency, if Aftershock did not flash the BIOS before shipping.
  
• Even if they flashed the BIOS, they might not have loaded the Setup Defaults after flashing. This can sometimes have weird side effects like stuck/wrong hidden settings.
  
• CPU and GPU Temp Targets might have been modified (perhaps accidentally) by system tuning software.
• Elektruboost/Overboost might actually be present but was not recognized as such by the reviewer because system monitoring tools will not be able to detect the increased power consumption.

It is therefor my assumption that this review is a glitch in the Matrix. I will try to dig out more info on this if possible. Meanwhile: move on people, nothing to see here.

/edit: Confirmed. Jarrod had BIOS 0038 on his system. Build date of this BIOS is June 2019 which is hopelessly outdated. This was from a time when the BIOS was not even production ready. We already received BIOS 0040 around middle of July and we are not on BIOS 0054 as of last week.

Cheers,
XMG|Tom

 

A little practical question someone can hopefully help me out with; for the MAG-15 would I need (travel) power plug n1 or could I just do with n2 https://i.imgur.com/bazeAqH.jpg? Haven't found a clear shot of the standard power adapter's outlet yet and I'm often travelling, which is why I'm looking forward to see what this battery can do.

Thanks in advance

 

Im assuming he just had an older bios with a much better option then the one intel settled on.

 

The first half of your assumption is correct. I got word from Jarrod. He only had BIOS 0038 on his system. Build date of this BIOS is June 2019 which is hopelessly outdated. This was from a time when the BIOS was not even production ready. We already received BIOS 0040 around middle of July and we are not on BIOS 0054 as of last week. // Tom

 

@XMG, do you know if there are any reviews of the XMG version of this machine in English? I looked on YouTube, but found nothing

 

I talked about the 0038 BIOS a few days ago lol

No GPU Boost, 85C CPU temp limit, 87C GPU temp limit

Edit: I'm currently talking to Level51 (aka Aftershock), will try to update BIOS and see how's the performance looks like

 

We don't have an English Youtube-Review yet (difficult for us to get one) but check out this Notebookcheck-Review:

Notebookcheck: XMG Fusion 15 in Review: Intel's reference design challenges the competition

// Tom

 

I've already seen that, thank you for sharing. Hopefully an English review of the German machine will come out soon

 

Eluktronics BIOS (0052) and Control Center works in Vapor 15 Pro (1660Ti). GPU is boosting correctly now. Only thing is the Eluktronics logo

 

For the GPU overclock MSI Afterburner.
The other things directly via BIOS (PremaMod beta / under evaluation).

 

Does the MAG 15 come with a grounded or ungrounded NEMA connector/power plug?

 

Dang all this good news about the Vapor (and its up-limited GPU) is making me wanna cash out my venerable Pascal Onyx for one (plus chump change... a lot of it).

Though I'm only prolly gonna need to bust out its full performance once CP2077 comes out, considering most of my gaming is actually being done on my (much) more mobile (and weaker) PS42 these days anyway... so I'm not entirely sure if I'm in any actual need for an upgrade.

I guess it's just the GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) kicking in... even though good ol' rational me is screaming inside telling me to wait for Ampere instead.

Also, in regards to MSI AB... I've got a bit of a question.

Considering the "Optimus bug" that AB has kills the battery if it's kept running in the background off the AC, I wonder if setting it up to set undervolts/overclocks at boot and killing the executable afterwards (through a delayed start Windows task) works to mitigate the "bug"while keeping the UV/OC in place?

Sure I can always just boot AB up when I want to game and kill it afterwards manually... but all that clicking.

 

So with the BIOS update, is the thermal GPU limit at 75C as well like everyone else? And what do you mean by “boosting correctly”?

 

I thought the Optimus bug was fixed in a latest update to the bios for xmg... Not sure what big you refer to otherwise

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Nah, it's about Afterburner periodically keeping the GPU alive even when not needed on battery mode, causing kinda big spikes in power consumption. Also means that on a NV system, keeping AB running in the background while on the battery sucks gas like no tomorrow... which is kinda bad if you WANT to undervolt to reduce GPU temps or something.

Supposedly started sometime after... what NV drivers 311-ish or the thereabouts? I kinda vaguely remembering that I bumped into the issue somewhere in 3DG's forums.

Apparently AB's maintainer seems to have no plans of fixing it, and it's not exclusively a MAG problem either.

That is, unless something happened in the shadows without me noticing and Nvidia fixed their drivers in the past few months without me noticing, anyway.

 

Oh, no that still happens... A reason why I don't use after burner anymore

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Yeah so does it still happen if you simply kill AB AFTER it autosets UV/OCs at boot? Curious minds need to know lol.

Otherwise I need to start researching how to set UV voltage curves with Inspector instead.