Intel-TongFang QC7 (Element/Fusion 15/MAG-15/Vapor 15 Pro)

Regarding reduced Battery Runtime (i.e. elevated Idle Power Consumption):

I'm pretty sure that battery drain comes from elevated Idle power consumption. I'm getting a constant 40W in Idle when I'm running certain combinations of Control Center and System Monitoring/Tuning tools. Some of the tools that people are running seem to either not uninstall properly or they do not restore the previous default settings.

A clean Windows install should be avoidable. I have an idea:

• Uninstall every system monitoring/tuning software cleanly via "Apps & Features"
• Install Intel XTU
• Open XTU
• Open "Profiles" menu and select "Default" profile
• Click on "Show Values": this might change a few "Proposed" values on the right panel
• Click on "Apply"
• Reboot and Uninstall XTU
• Check your Idle power consumption or battery life now

See the essential steps on this screenshot:



This might or might not help. Don't leave out any of these steps. Let me know if it helps!

By the way: testing battery life could be greatly sped up if people would have a plug-in power monitor at home. Get a used on off eBay or your local Craig's list!
It's so fascinating to see how much power various home appliances consume, especially in Off/Standby. Tim Taylor approves!

// Tom

 

I have come to this laptop from a Mackbook Pro (which I had for 7 years). I have had significant issue with battery and fan noise, which I think were almost certainly related to tuning programmes / drivers as detailed by Tom from XMG. Windows is certainly very different from a Mac and I think that MacOS is definitely more stable. I have had to invest a significant amount of time fiddling with settings to get this thing working correctly, including re-installing everything once. All that said, today I worked on my laptop for most of the day and didn't plug it in once, something I could have never done on the MacBook. The hardware on this thing is awesome and is much better value than you can get with a MacBook.

I was originally v disappointed about how noisy it was (the MacBook fans almost never came on), but after a clean install and the right drivers the fan noise is very reasonable (in quiet mode they hardly come on) and I don't notice any significant lag when in battery save / quiet mode.

If you're willing to invest some time configuring things to your liking I would get the Mag/Vapor/Fusion, if not get another Mac.

I have installed MintLinux (as I also mentioned on reddit in the above link) and just needed to update the kernel using a ethernet cable. After doing this you need to disable secure boot. With an updated kernel the Bluetooth, wireless and GPU worked with no issues at all. I was able to install cuda and the GPU ripped through a large data set that I was processing with no problem at all. Mint is a pleasure to use and very fast. Happy to provide any more specific details that you need. I am not a Linux expert, I just use it for a few specific applications and couldn't find a way to do GPU pass through with the WLS or a VM. ​

 

Thank you for the info on Linux. Just wanted to hear if anyone had any major issues with initial hardware setup. I can troubleshoot minor tuning problems normally

Looking to make the full switch over to just Linux, save for some programs on Windows I have to use due to work (Autodesk Autocad, and Revit). Debating between the MAG-15, the MECH-15/17, and the Eluktronics N970TF desktop replacement unit.

Trying to weigh portability vs horsepower. I travel a bit less than I used to, but still need some mobility.

 

From what I understand, Macs being quieter is actually a deliberate design decision that involves a significant tradeoff -

https://petapixel.com/2019/06/11/this-is-why-macs-are-slower-than-pcs/

"...Apple took advantage of the extra thermal headroom by keeping the fans low for as long as possible instead of attempting to boost the CPU’s performance for longer".

... I'm not sure I agree that this is a good trade. A lot of the problems Apple is having now arises from the fixation on being as "sleek" as possible (primary example being that stupid keyboard. Not even talking about the reliability problems, it's just terrible to type on compared to the older keyboards). They have to make aggressive cooling decisions because they want it to be quiet and yet it's also so thin there's no space for airflow.

As far as I can see, for the modern Macs, there is only one unalloyed advantage they still retain over the majority of non-Mac machines, and it's actually an old decision that carried over - they have 16:10 ratio displays. I really don't understand why (except MS Surface with their 3:2 displays, which is even better) everyone is using 16:9 displays. So what if that's the aspect ratio of movies? Is the primary purpose of a laptop the watching of movies? Not for me.

anyways, circling back - I think with tweaking of settings, it should be possible to make the same trade off (if you want to) on the QC7 to prioritise "quiet" over "performance", so I don't think this machine is "worse" in any fundamental sense.

Also, it's not much thicker but to have all those ports available... now THAT is a good tradeoff.

Thanks for all the info!
(1) had no idea Global Blue Refund people can handle this for your products as well - will do.
(have seen them before and all the tourists filling up forms at their counters).

One problem for me now though is that I already have this QC7... there wouldn't happen to be a 17" equivalent on the way, would there? I can see to having a 17" machine as well as this 15" I'm typing on (yes, I am the guy in the airport security line slowing things down by taking TWO laptops out of his bag), but it's a bit difficult for me to justify having TWO essentially-identical QC7s ...

(2) if there's no obvious errors/warnings/question marks, there could be quite a few people out there with "stealth" audio problems... (esp. since I'm sure there are people who will NOT reboot after installing things, even if they install the drivers in the correct order)

(3) ah, FYI I think *some* machines out there DO have an ACPI "lid open"? Screenshot example:




I did some googling and there's a powershell command I can use to force it to appear for me (though it doesn't do anything). I'll start clicking around the device manager the next time I'm at a computer store for a look to see if I can find any models with this on as well!

 

So out of the box you didn’t have any issues?

My point exactly. User experience from the get go is just better on the Mac. I really wanted this laptop to be THE laptop to convince me to transition to Windows, but all these problems are causing doubts. Honestly, for the price, you shouldn’t have to do the work yourself. Just my two cents.

 

what software should I use to check idle power consumption?

 

Go get any decent Ultrabook and you really wont have any of these problems besides regular old windows ones that mac will have too with updates etc. Also you've got to realize that people on this forum aren't the majority. Like me I haven't really had any issues besides coil whine, which that just is what it is and then the low battery that I need to try and fix. Oh and also the fans. I can never keep these things quiet even on low load.

 

I can still neither confirm nor deny any such plans.

Thanks, I did not know this. Anyway, this seems to be a different implementation. By virtue of EC/BIOS programming, opening the Lid should wake up the laptop (and does so on my unit), irregardless of what Windows is seeing. Apparantly, opening the lid is the same as pressing the power button. Does your laptop wake up from Standby (S3) by pressing the power button?

There is no software that can really do the job, especially not without potential interference. Get a wall socket power monitor tool.

Depends on your definition of "quiet". They go to 30% speed from time to time when CPU temp is above 50°C, but 30% is almost inaudible in typical working/living environment. What's your battery life?

I had another 2 hour phone call with Intel last night (lasted into 2am in the morning, my local time) to take them through the reproduction of each of these documented edge cases. They are working on it, that much I can promise.

Make those two cents 5 dollars because you are absolutely right. And of course the units that are ordered with Windows pre-install work absolutely fine out-of-the-box. It's a certain, small percentage of users who either install on their own ("clean install" purists, haha, don't hit me please) or who go through a lot of tinkering with 3rd party apps and break things. We are working on ironing out these edge cases and any potential driver conflicts. The latter is the key difference between Apple and Windows. Apple has full control over the device drivers that are deployed for each system. In the Windows/PC world, everyone is doing their own thing. NVIDIA is deploying new drivers almost on a weekly basis via GeForce Experience, Microsoft is doing their own thing via Windows Updates and users can go around, get drivers from different sources, sometimes use some freemium "Automatic Driver Update Solution" tools (the horror!) and things get messed up, especially in such a first generation product.

If you buy your XMG laptop with pre-installed Windows and just use it productively (never change a running system.. or perhaps maybe only once or twice a year?), then you probably won't have any issues to deal with, just like (guessing now) 95% of the Windows users who are not posting in this thread.

(I like Macbooks too, so take this with a grain of salt, as in: it's not even 8am in the morning in Taiwan and I'm salty right now.)

// Tom

 

Yes, my machine wakes from sleep fine when I do that, it's only that I found needing the extra step to hit the button to wake a bit irritating (and "asymmetric" since closing the lid works - and I know it works because e.g. the LED bar goes off when I close the lid and in a dark room there's no light leakage from under the lid when closed. And when I open the lid after closing it the machine is sleeping).

I fired up my Mac boot camp (have not done so for a while) and ... it also does NOT have "lid open" listed in the advanced power settings yet it wakes fine when the lid is opened, so you're definitely right that it's not necessary - another instance of Windows "heterogeneity" I suppose!

FYI the powershell command etc. (and the screenshot I uploaded) to force the "lid open" entry to appear can be found here:

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials...d-open-action-power-options-windows-10-a.html

Hi all, has anyone ordered this power adapter? I ordered one more than a week ago and the payment cleared, but I still don't have a tracking number/shipping information

 

Anyone experience a situation in league of legends where gpu doesn't boost past 800 MHz with electroboost enabled? My Alienware m15 usually boosts to at least 1200 MHz. This machine boosts to 1700 MHz in Spyro trilogy for the first 3 minutes and then throttles down to a measly 800 MHz - 1000 MHz because of 75C limit and 95% GPU usage with settings maxed I get around 110 fps. League of legends stays at around 825 MHz on electroboost mode with the gpu sitting at 65 C and I get 95 fps while I manage 120 fps on my m15 with 1070 maxq... Wonder what's going on... I already reinstalled Nvidia drivers with DDU btw and not the latest drivers or the freezing will come back.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

I also ordered one a few days ago and it hasn't shipped.

 

Or, now that the new 16" MBP has basically solved every "showstopper" problem I can see for a portable Mac, you could just get that . The GPU still isn't comparable to what's available in e.g. the QC7 though

 

Anyone have a video on how to repaste? I took out the screws to the heatsink but its stuck and I don't want to pull to hard and risk breaking the heatsink

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

Once you take out all the screws the paste holds it on pretty good. Need to start lifting it slowly all around and you'll get it off. A repaste in this won't change much from everything I have seen from Bob, Stephen, and Jarrod.

 

Hey guys

Just got the aftershock vapor version of this and am absolutely loving it. A few of my thoughts:-

- For me, this laptop is actually perfect, an understated laptop that is perfect for office, processing, and yet will handle gaming when I want to game.
- Far more mobile than anticipated, it is a lighter, sleeker package than what the videos/photos do it justice in my view
- Keyboard is great, a little time to get used to it, but as someone who types in word documents constantly, I really appreciate the travel time, and anticipate the few teething issues and typos will go as I adapt to it
- Mouse is a little off, in that it has a tiny bit of travel in the bottom half, not one solid immovable glass piece, very different to the Surface Book I have come from, but at the same time this is a minor complaint
- I enjoy the screen
- Fan noise, I am using it almost entirely in balanced mode, the fans are not loud or obtrusive.

Which leads me to my one query/complaint:-
- Whilst the fan noise at balanced is not annoying, it seems to almost always be on, for example, I currently have one window of firefox open, and the control centre open, and my processor is running at 48 degrees temp and the fan is on. It doesn't seem to cycle every 5-10 minutes, it seems to be on almost constantly...so I wonder if my laptop is idling at a higher temp than it should be.

Tom from XMG, your thoughts on that? @XMG

Otherwise this is a fantastic product I am really happy with.

 

No issues in monster Hunter, FFXIV, code vein, or Bioshock infinite for me. I haven't tried anything else. My GPU really doesn't get above 70. I'm undervolted -.125 and limiting CPU boost to 3.6 on all cores. GPU is limited to 1590mhz with MSI afterburner. I'm on the older version of Nvidia drivers like was recommended by Tom.

 

Unfortunately fan curve is set to go off at 50 degrees. If you are in a warm enough room it will almost always be at 50 while working. Can't adjust fan curve yet. Need to wait for custom fan control software.

 

Thanks for the quick reply, I don't have an issue with the fan curve, or the fan noise (For comparison a Surface Book fan would only kick on at max load, but when it does, it puts the Vapor/Mag15/Fusion's fans to shame, maybe because of the design of the book)

I am more surprised that my laptop is essentially idling at or just under 50 degrees, for reference right now its sitting at 44 degrees using only 7 percent of the processor, I guess my concern is, is the temp idling a bit high, if the answer is nope, this thing just runs a little bit warm on idle, then that is fine, I was just concerned that there might be something wrong to have it idling a bit higher than anticipated.

Maybe I am over analysing due to all the commentary here

 

Mine idles in the 40s doing web browsing and YouTube. Will go over 50 eventually if in a room 67f or warmer. Pretty sure this is normal. All my laptops have idled in the 40s and up with the 8th gen i7 chip. Don't forget your surface pro has a chip that uses lower wattage. And I'm assuming fans not set to go off until a higher temp for acoustics.

 

So apparently if the game doesn't provide enough load to the GPU it won't really go through the full turbo... League is sadly CPU bound but even at full turbo on this machine it isn't reaching a stable 144 yet....

I had a similar issue when I got this machine UNTIL I re-installed windows. It seems that by default the windows settings have been changed under the hood for the "energy preference" for the CPU cores (on balanced my cores were turbo-ing more than I'd like). After I re-installed windows the fans were idle the whole day on battery saver using chrome and balance had the fans kick on a LOT less than before.

 

Thanks, it might be something I just live with, it isn't annoying, I was just worried something was wrong, I don't trust myself to do a full reinstall of windows etc at this stage, I am pretty vanilla when it comes to that stuff...

 

Putting a desk fan under the laptop while playing Spyro actually allowed electroboost to reach 1700 MHz on the GPU (avg 1600 MHz ). I'm thinking of making a thunderbolt 3 dock hooked up to a good external monitor with a large quiet fan underneath to cool this laptop while docked for good ultra wide performance.

Seems like a lot of the heat isn't being pushed fast enough to the heat exchangers to get rid of the heat. I wonder how well this laptop would be if it used heat pipes or a small vapor chamber.

Another note, I notice the heat pipes are all on the same side vs Alienware design where 2 of the heat pipes wraps around that fans in the opposite direction toward side vents away from main heat pipes. Seems like it might have actually helped spread the heat somewhat.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

@XMG @Eluktronics
Hi Iwas wondering if you knew or could ask if custom fan curve is coming and possible? Does it depends on the bios or the fans (3pins /4pins) i really want to buy a laptop with custom fan curve i feel instead of the usual fan off then on when its hot we should be able to control it to always run slowly to prevent heat creeping up and noise reduction. Thank you

 

I also want to know if custom fan curve will be available in future

 

Anyone else having issues with headphones plugged in? If i am watching youtube close the window and go back i loose sound and video wont play. I have to unplug the headphone to get sound back and video working. It is not the port as this happens if its plugged into the laptop or my xbox controller.

Edit: I think i figured it out, i had to just open sound blaster and then close it after selecting one of the settings. Seems to be ok now.

 

OK I just got an email saying it's shipped and on the way!

 

I have a couple of new issues (seem to be having a bit of bad luck).

I am experiencing intermittent BSOD with the error "a critical process died". Looking at the system log doesn't reveal the cause. I recently re-installed the audio drivers as per Tom's instructions which seem to be working. It doesn't seem to occur with any pattern. Anyone else experiences this? I suspect a driver is causing the issue. Is the Intel driver update tool the best way to keep on top of driver updates?

I noticed that when in suspend the battery is draining. Looking at the System Power Report there is "Device -ACPI Wake Alarm", about every three hours. I have tried turning off wakes ups in the advanced power settings when on battery and power.

Also Tom, you mentioned that your fans turn on when in 'quite /battery' mode at 50 deg. In switch on at about 45 degrees ? Newest bios and control center. I only point this out as 50 degrees sounds ideal.

 

@XMG @Eluktronics are you guys allowed to provide the blue prints for the heatsink? Would you be able to provide it with all the dimensions?

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

any news on the problems between Control Center/nVidia Geforce drivers ? I have too keep XMG control center uninstalled otherwise i got massive lags and hangup on a lot of application (yes I even downgraded to cc 2.1.5 and I have no XTU or other apps installed)
Anybody got any luck with more recents nvidia drivers?

 

I got my replacement unit really quick. Fixed all the issues I had including creaking noise near bottom right space and some fan issues.
I also noticed that the new unit has my windows 10 config and data. Possibly they added my old ssd to new unit

 

That's good to hear! Does the touchpad feel the same (rattle)? Does the bottom case creak at the front when pushed down where you'd rest your wrists when typing?

 

So I just got my replacement system which I give big kudos to Eluktronics for. They had a new machine out to me in exactly 1 week from my initial arrival. They also moved my old SSD from the last machine to this machine. So far so good here! I'll be installing and setting up the laptop for the next few hours so lets hope the good luck keeps up.

One question I have for current owners is how is the machines coil whine for you all? This new machine I got in particular has a very noticeable gritty coil whine from the machine itself. not the power brick both on and off battery. If I put my ear towards the keyboard, I hear a distinct gritty electronics whine which can be heard also when the fans are off working at a normal distance away from the laptop.

Just small gripes for now! Pretty happy with the service and hardware otherwise.

 

My first model developed this in a few days then I got a replacement and it had the exact same thing. But I haven't had any issues with the trackpad being loose or creaking of the chassis that lots of others have been describing for a while.

 

My trackpad isn’t rock solid but it’s for sure tolerable. It has a tiny amount of play that is noticeable if you lightly tap it but during normal usage, doesn’t bother me too too much.

Time to throw this DBrand skin on.

 

Can you please provide a link to the DBrand skin specific to this laptop? PM is fine if links aren't allowed but I'm sure other might want a skin as well.

 

PM'd. Had to purchase a skin with the eluktronics logo cut out. they don't have the option to remove the logo anymore with is frustrating due to the fact that its ridiculously hard to get the logo to match the cutout perfectly. it also sucks for those of you that don't have the eluktronics version of the laptop and want the skin.

 

The touchpad feels better but still not as solid as other similar laptops.
No more creaking at palm rest area but some creaking at the edges around light bar when pressing hard.

 

My first model has a small whine when putting my ears close to bottom panel. The replacement doesnt seem to have it. Its absolutely silent when fans are off like its been turned off

 

Don't use Nvidia driver 440.xx or above. Or downgrade Control Center version
https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG_gg/comments/durw6y/incoming_update_for_freezing_issues_in_control/

Another thing: I also noticed high power consumption while idling on battery, even though CPU is idling properly (entered C8 - checked with Throttlestop) and GPU is off (checked with hwinfo). This is with BIOS 0056+Control Center (both from Aftershock) in Vapor 15 Pro. Fortunately I found a solution: In Intel Graphics Command Center, go to system>power, under 'on battery' tab, change power plan from 'balanced mode' to 'maximum battery life'. This dropped the system power drain from ~25-35W to less than 10W (according to hwinfo), which improves battery life significantly.

In summary
Vapor 15 Pro 1660Ti, BIOS 0056, Control Center 2.1.0.12 (if I remembered correctly - with Balanced mode 645MHz bug), Nvidia driver 430.86 (installed using Windows update after uninstalled using DDU):

• Throttlestop and hwinfo64 are working perfectly fine
• No more freezing issues when opening hwinfo64 / task manager / gpu-z, however Nvidia 440.97 driver will cause freezing issue even with this older version of Control Center
• Need to change power mode to max battery life (on battery) in Intel Graphics Command Center in order to improve battery life
• GPU Boost aka Eluktroboost is working with Performance mode in Control Center, even without Benchmark mode enabled

Issue occurred in BIOS 0052, but solved in BIOS 0056: Intel Rapid Storage Technology causing high CPU usage+power draw and high fan noise

 

I had to completely uninstall Control Center, i got lags even downgrading it to 2.1.5.
I will try to downgrade nvidia drivers too for the moment hoping for a quick resolution

 

When everything goes well on Monday, I should be able to order a fusion 15 finally. Now lets hope d-brand brings back the skins without eluktronics logo cutout.. I really want my fusion 15 to be completely brandless.

 

The logo on the XMG Fusion 15 luckily is just ever so slightly shiny black, which is really stealthy looking on the matte black magnesium lid. I think it's the best looking out of Eluktronics. XMG and Aftershock.

 

I agree entirely! When family come round I disable all the lights and they don't even realise it's a powerful beast of a laptop

 

Damn eluktronics is selfish. "Thanks for reaching out. We appreciate your interest in the MAG-15 skins. Unfortunately, we do not offer a no-logo cutout version due to the specifications set by the manufacturer. We do apologize for any inconvenience this has caused. Let us know if there's anything else we can help with and have a great day!"

 

Could you post the manufacturing date info for your new machine? (do you remember what it was for your old one)

Just FYI, I obtained my unit from Aftershock without their logo - I enquired/requested if it was possible to get it without the logo and they said yes.

(did not mean it to hurt their feelings or anything, I just prefer a "brandless" machine too!)

So, you might want to ask XMG about it and you can skip getting a skin. Phrase it nicely and don't hurt their feelings! ("what, our logo's not good enough for you?")

 

actually got mine as well last week. didn't request for a no logo laptop but I got sent one which I prefer. asked them about it and they forgot to put it on apparently. talked to them and they'll send the logo should I decide to put it on eventually.

surprising for a company to forget to put their logo on their product and even surprising that they forgot it on more than one order. makes you wonder if they missed anything else that's not easy to check such as a thermal paste upgrade...

 

In my Eluktronics replacement unit I have been using control center 2.17 latest, latest bios, and nvidia 436.x driver.
Not facing any lag, temps are low, on silent its super quiet. when i keep running any monitoring tool in background idle temps reach 50c otherwise those are stable at 35-40c. Battery life is 7-9hrs
Didn't do any clean install. I unininstalled control center and nvidia drivers, removed oem folder in program files before installing latest version. Have been loving the laptop since the replacement

 

I wonder what they did

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

Btw, I now have that creaking on the right palm rest. What's the guide to fix it again?

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Someone willing to test this fan manager? http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/tongfang-gk5cn5z-gk5cn6z-gk5cq7z-gk5cp0z.815943/page-388