More MS Store impressions

I've decided to return to this forum to rant a little, but also to offer some useful feedback on what I've seen at Microsoft Store today.

Please Christ do not accuse me of being a Vizio employee. I'm not even currently employed.

MS Store in Minnesota only had the 14" Thin+Light ultrabooks and the All-in-Ones; one of the assistants told me that they would be setting up a new, separate Vizio display on the 15th of July, at which point they were also expecting to receive the other ultrabook and the notebook. I had her double-check with the person in charge of inventory and she said the date was accurate. We will of course see on the 15th whether that is true or not, but some of the September dates seem far-fetched.

It is entirely possible MS Store will get these computers first because high-street retail volume is smaller. Then they would trickle out to Wal-Mart, etc. at a later date.

As for the computers themselves, they were just about the most solidly built PCs I've seen (excluding MacBook Pros and possibly Vaio). I did stop by the Apple Store across the way for means of comparison, and the trackpad is by far better on the MacBook Pro. However, none of the trackpads in the MS Store compared to the Vizio ones. They had 6 show models and 5 of the 6 worked flawlessly. One didn't work so well and I would attribute it to showroom wear-and-tear.

The trackpads are not glass however they don't feel all that bad. They are indeed Sentelic, and I don't know if that's a good or mediocre brand, but I could tell that their efforts were about 90% there. Again, it was no MacBook Pro, but it was the best trackpad in the MS Store.

The All-in-Ones are wonderful except for the keyboard and trackpad that are included. The keyboard is the same as the notebook which doesn't make much sense (no numpad, small F-keys) and I don't understand why anyone would want a trackpad on a desktop machine. That said, they're very sleek and run very well. Hook up a different pair of peripherals to it and I'd call it a good buy.

Back to the ultrabook, which is what everyone cares about. I pre-ordered a notebook but I can tell the products will be quite similar. The keyboard is actually very interesting. It's of course a throwback design that eschews the chiclet trend and is similar to the Razer Arctosa keyboard I use at my desktop but with less depth. It still gives plenty of tactile feedback and I imagine the notebook may give a little more feedback still. I was able to type at my normal WPMs pretty much instantly.

The build quality of the device seems excellent. Vizio has skimped a bit on things like ports and keyboard backlight but I can tell they did this to balance quality versus price. I'm a little annoyed about not having a backlight but it's not something I can't live without.

The WEI for the hard drive (SSD) was indeed 7.5, which I think was a point of contention in this forum. Some people were expecting 7.9 but I don't really know what to think because this is my first time buying anything with an SSD and I'll actually be getting the hybrid drive.

The display panel was just excellent. Best in the store. It's IPS -- probably eIPS with AFRC like every non-pro monitor is these days -- but it's a brilliant panel for a notebook. Comparable to the MCP. I actually think that the MCPs were running PVA panels up until the Retina, so this is definitely a plus for Vizio.

There is indeed no bloatware, the only little piece of advertising comes in the form of the V key (Windows+F1) which leads you to a website with some entertainment links. It's non-obtrusive.

I'm going to give Vizio a shot at this. I'm not expecting to be blown away, in fact I'm a little disappointed they left SSD options and backlights out. But I really do not want an MCP even though I can afford one, and I know that I could buy two Vizios for the price of an MCP Retina, so if Vizio refreshes and I want one, I may have enough money to upgrade. It's really a price : performance : quality decision, wherein you'll get a 5% better product in the MCP but pay up to 80% more. Vizio didn't hit it out of the park, but they have a good chance to disrupt the PC market.

 

Separate display on the 15th? Does that mean that they'll be on sale then? Or is it just... ya know, a display?

Honestly, I don't understand all the hate for Sentelic, I mean I don't ever notice what brand my trackpads are and I've had four laptops. And the SSDs, going from mechanical or even a hybrid harddrive to an SSD is already blazing fast. The SSD inside the Vizio isn't the "top of the line" one, but it's not like anyone would notice the extra half a second.

 

The salesperson said that they expected new SKUs in (for sale) when they put up the new display on the 15th.

 

So the trackpad is usable without getting irritated with it? The cursor doesn't jump around or have unresponsive moments?

 

The trackpad was above average. I had a little trouble with it but I also haven't used a laptop in years. Once I used it for a few minutes it was fine.

The click mechanism for the trackpad gives a bit of tactile feedback where the pad sinks a bit into the case and pops up again when depressed. At first I thought the pad I was using was defective but it turns out that it was part of the mechanism and worked just fine.

 

So the trackpad itself is a button? Can you link pictures? I would just like to see what everyone is clamoring about.

Also, what kind of material is it? I know it's not glass, but in an article by the Verge, they said that it was plastic and "sticky", which I don't understand.

 

I didn't take any pictures, sorry. The trackpad is some sort of plastic, though I don't know where The Verge conjured up the adjective "sticky" from. It wasn't smooth but it wasn't rough, and the mechanism worked fine.

The bottom left and right corners of the trackpad are the left/right buttons respectively, and they sink slightly as you press them. There's a spring mechanism so that you know the button has been pressed and depressed.

 

There is not way possible this trackpad is better than a macbook pro, I'm sorry but that can't even be true due to the texture. Maybe I have a bad one but don't tell me it's the best trackpad in the world now. And apple probably does have the best trackpad in the world.

 

meh... I mustered up the extra money and bought a Dell XPS15 instead for about 1700.
it is an all in all solidly designed and built laptop without any apparent drawbacks, also synaptics trackpad. and a bluray player is always welcomed. hurts to spend that amount of money but since I will be using it for school projects as well as entertainment there aren't that many quality alternatives to MBP.
I hope Vizio does well and make it to Europe, maybe my next purchase will be from them.

 

XPS15 is using a TN panel, which I find a bit laughable considering the Gorilla Glass. TNs aren't worth protecting.

 

gorilla glass gives better viewing angles regardless, really I would've preferred an IPS matte screen (who doesn't) but really there are other aspects to a laptop than just that.
my friend who had a hands on with the Vizio notebook wasn't terribly impressed, and since I will be using the laptop in Europe the dells international warranty policy suit my need much better.
seeing the comments on this forum the TN panel is quite decent.

 

Yeah I was going to get the dell at first but once I saw options and price and screen and weight I just said all I need is an ultrabook. Mostly what I do is use the web, remote desktop, and cs6 and so far the i5 vizio handles all of this like a champ and it's super slim and no fan noises

 

The new Vaio S-Series would be the only other laptop I would consider. 15.5" IPS, Quad Core i7 Ivy Bridge,up to 512 SSD and 12 MB Ram. 4.5 lbs and .9" thick.

 

Can you post a link to the Vaio S-Series you're talking about? The closest I can get it through customization is close to $1,700 and still sort of sucks.

The current config I have for the Vaio S has several flaws that kills it for me - mandatory Nvidia 640M GT LE for SSD-only hard drive, CD player at all, close to $1,700 with S/H, and although there's no mentioning of battery life, I'm gunna assume it's less than 5 hours considering it's 1080p screen, graphics card, and cd player.

 

Order Price
$1879.99

No interest financing available.
Explore your payment options >

Estimated Ship Date 07/18/2012
how is this estimated?

.
.
Add to Wishlist.

Original Price
Program Savings


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3rd gen Intel® Core™ i7-3520M processor (2.90GHz / 3.60GHz with Turbo Boost)
Windows® 7 Home Premium 64-bit
15.5" LED backlit Full HD display (1920 x 1080)
NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 640M LE (2GB) hybrid graphics with Intel® Wireless Display technology
256GB (128GB x2) solid state drive with RAID 0
6GB (4GB fixed onboard + 2GB removable) DDR3-1333Mhz
Blu-ray Disc™ player
Internal lithium polymer battery (4400mAh)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Black
No engraving
No Fresh Start
Microsoft® Office 2010 Starter (Click More Info for details.)
Kaspersky® Internet Security (30-day trial)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
None
None
RAID 0 (SPEC01000002482)
$1879.99

No interest financing available.
Explore your payment options >

Estimated Ship Date 07/18/2012
how is this estimated?

 

Review Sony Vaio SV-S13A1Z9E/S Notebook - Notebookcheck.net Reviews

Notebookcheck gets the 13inch version at 8 hours idle. The 15 inch might be along the same lines due to bigger battery but higher screen consumption, stuff like that.

That said, the Sony Vaio S has a weaker GPU (DDR3 not DDR5), and a screen with the orange gate issue. And while I know nothing about Vizio/new Sony Vaio S, I know the old one had some overly loose hinges and some weird engineering choices (vent partially covered). That said, it was and must still be a good comp, but they also have weird quirks I don't like.

 

Both Vaio S and Vizio are going with the nVidia GeForce 640M LE. The LE edition is essentially just a downclocked 640M, although there are apparently Fermi variants that are branded the same but run hotter. However, the CTO of Vizio specifically mentioned in an interview with ABC News that they'd be using the Kepler version.

The 640M has the ability to use dedicated GDDR5 memory but it's hard to find a notebook that isn't a gaming laptop that does this. If the thermals are carefully monitored by the user though, you can overclock the 640M LE up to 640M levels, which gets good performance even with DDR3. Someone on this forum overclocked the GPU on their Sony Vaio S by 10% and had no complaints.

The 640M LE is about as fast (1-2% faster or slower depending on the app) as an AMD Radeon HD6770M, which was the GPU featured in the Late 2011 MacBook Pros. It's also more or less equivalent to the GT555, which was featured in the Razer Blade, so we can laugh at the people who spend $2800 on a laptop.

Edit: here's a gaming demonstration on the Sony Vaio S 13" which runs at 900p resolution. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi9F23Qvarg

 

It's not too difficult to find a DDR5 640M LE actually. Both Acer and Vizio are using it, while Sony and Lenovo stick to the DDR3 version.

Afaik, all 4 are using Kepler though.

 

For most reviews I've read where the Macbook Air gets 6 and a half hours, the test was wifi/bluetooth on and a 20 minute or so video loop until the battery ran out. I don't know what the equivalent is on the Sony S-Series, but on the 13" version, wifi surfing only ran 4 and a half hours - deal breaker if it's under five hours for me. Also, the article was a bit confusing but that may have been Wifi surfing with the Graphics Card turned off too.

Other than that, it's a good laptop, but just probably not for me. I need battery life more than a dedicated graphics card. This laptop would be a real good choice for me if you could upgrade to 256gb SSD without having to get the graphics card.

Also, what's confusing me is how come there's a USB 2.0 slot on the right side? If it's an Ivy Bridge processor, why would they have a USB 2.0 at all?

 

I decided to buy from the Vizio store because of the free 2 year warranty. Here is a chat I just had about delivery:

Jacob: Thank you for contacting VIZIO Live Chat, the home of Entertainment Freedom for All. This is Jacob in South Dakota. Have you ever contacted us before?
Rick: No
Rick: Will vendors be selling the CT15-A2 before you ship mine?
Jacob: For the i7 models they are only sold online though .com retailers. Local retail stores are receiving other models. The other models have shipped on June 25th.
Rick: So it will do me no good to buy elsewhere?
Jacob: If you are looking for the i7 models, currently no.

Apparently no one will have it before Vizio.

 

Test Apple MacBook Air 11 Mid 2012 Subnotebook - Notebookcheck.com Tests In notebookcheck's MBA test, the MBA gets 5:44 of wifi vs 4:30 I believe on the Sony. Max runtime is 1:30 more or so.

So not quite the difference that you were claiming, but still noticeable. Keep in mind its a different OS though, (although that says more about Apple's tuning of OSX than anything else.)

 

Vizio's spec sheet says 1GB shared memory, which implies DDR3. However, if you've found something else, please share it.

 

Wait what? How does this imply DDR3? The specs on the website say "shared/size..." not shared. A dedicated graphics card will never have shared memory, so that conclusion can't be right.

Additionally, I've spoken with multiple Vizio reps that keep telling me it's DDR5. I don't really feel like running through my email to find them all, but you can choose to believe me or not - i probably spoke to five reps, and each one that I asked the GPU question (maybe 3) told me it was ddr5.

I know that a 640M LE with DDR5 is possible, and since that seems the more obscure ram type, it is less likely to be said without knowledge. Most incompetent reps would probably look at the RAM type (normal ram) and say that the 640M LE uses DDR3 Ram, and then insist on it. (One did, but after differentiating the ram and GPU ram, he told me DDR5). The fact that none of them have done this, and all have gone for the possibly more obscure DDR5, is a good sign to me.

Sure, it isn't foolproof, and we can't tell until we get it, but I feel fairly reassured at least.

 

If you say it's GDDR5 I believe you.

But no, a dedicated graphics chip does in fact often use shared memory, DDR3, at the lower end of the product spectrum. The performance difference in high-resolution situations is quite substantial, often 20%. If Vizio is smart they've included GDDR5 because 3D graphics in 1080p are hard to drive without.

 

I couldn't read the notebookcheck review because the internet I have blocks it for some reason - I'll try to figure it out. But I'm basing my claim of 6.5 hours with wifi on and video loop off of this review from endgadget. It's not the only one I've seen that claims 6.5 hours - it's just the only one I can find right now because I'm sort of busy at work (never too busy to discuss laptops though ~,o). There's a section in the engadget review that mentions battery life specifically.

 

Are you saying that lower end GPUs use DDR3 (true) or that they use the system RAM as their RAM (which is coincidentally DDR3?) I know that some GPUs use DDR3, but afaik, a low end GPU will have 4GB Ram and then a 6490M with 1GB DDR3 ram separate. I've never heard of a dedicated card using the system's 4GB Ram... I'm not saying its impossible, but I don't know why somebody would market a gpu with 1gb ddr3 ram if it uses the system's ram. If that's the case, do you have a source? I'd be curious.

But yeah, low end GPUs most definitely use DDR3 ram, but they have their own modules of RAM on the GPU chipset itself. Again, I guess I could be wrong, but that's why they're called dedicated GPUs after all.

 

They're called hybrid memory solutions, but I just did some more research and found that it isn't used on the 640M LE. Why it says "shared" on the Vizio spec sheet I don't know. The 1GB of RAM should be dedicated.

However, the spec sheet for the 640M LE specifies DDR3 memory, not the faster GDDR5. NVIDIA GeForce GT 640M LE - Notebookcheck.net Tech

 

Notebookcheck's specs are wrong. Check Nvidia's website, 640M le is listed as ddr3/ddr5. Additionally, the TimelineU M5 is confirmed to have a ddr5 version (bought and tested by somebody, check the acer forums) so ddr5 is definitely possible.

 

Yep, I just noticed that, thanks.

I also got a second confirmation from Vizio support that the VRAM is dedicated GDDR5, just like you did.

Which basically just makes the chip a downclocked GT 650. (Awesome.)

 

If you want to be really optimistic, it's a downclocked GTX660M

 

I highly doubt the thermal spec of Vizio's case will allow for that kind of overclocking, but it should allow an OC up to 640M levels. The Apple MCP Retina even uses a GT 650M, so we'll see.

 

Oh god I can't imagine what a 660M clock would do to it. I was totally joking - while it is theoretically/technically true, in practical use that would be impossible. I guess unless ambient temps were like... 10 celsius. 640M levels might be achievable. We shall soon see! I hope. XD