Shipping date of the PowerPro J 10:15 (Compal IFL90) delayed until late June...but the WSXGA+ IS the 8600 GT

Shipping date of the PowerPro J 10:15 (Compal IFL90) delayed until late June...but the WSXGA+ IS the 8600 GT w/512MB on-die memory.

The WXGA is the 8600 GS w/256MB on-die memory.

 

Whoo, the GT on the WSXGA+ version! Thanks for the update!

 

Thanks for the update on those machines Donald, I can't wait to get some first impressions from people when they arrive. Those are sweet looking machines with some awesome hardware!

 

Thank you for the update. I hope its not too much later! My old compaq is on its last legs. Do you feel like this is a pretty firm timeframe?

 

Thanks for the update Donald.

I have just one question- Is the WSXGA+ a Matte Screen?

 

Nope, I believe both of them are the glossy

 

Yes, the timeframe seems to be pretty firm at this point...although nothing is really firm in this business until the first shipping label is stuck on to the box. However at this point it looks like that will be before the last day of June.

 

That is correct...matte screens are almost impossible to find anymore and the IFL90 will be glossy all the way.

We do still have ONE PowerPro L 8:15 WSXGA+ matte screen left...and then there will be no more...ever...

 

is that one going to be for you? =p

 

Awesome news Donald! I am sure we can wait a few more weeks now that we know we are getting the 8600GT.
Tim

 

Does that mean my PowerPro L 8:15 will be something of a collectors item? Imagine the premium I'll get when I go to sell this thing shortly when I upgrade!

 

Too bad about the glossy screen. Any chance that the higher resolution screen is an IPS panel? Was the high resolution screen on the HEL80 IPS?

 

The HEL80 was the Samsung PRISM technology, but it was a matte screen so they will not be the same.

At this point we simply don't know who the panel manufacturer is, or what its specs are so we could not say whether it is IPS ( In-Plane Switching). However that is pretty old technology that was developed over 10 years ago, so I am not so sure it would be the latest and greatest at this time.

 

Whooo! I can stop checking the compal section several times a day now! Anyone else heh.

Ehm anyway yes thanks for the update.

 

Yeah now I can finally take a break from the forums without feeling like I am missing anything. lol
Tim

 

Well, I am glad I changed my order for the wsxga+ screen! But now it's probably going to arrive when I'll be out of town. :-(

 

IPS is the best looking panel I've ever seen if this is what is used in the ASUS G1.

 

is the 8600GT going to be DDR3 or DDR2? that's something that a lot of people have been wondering about in other threads.

 

Yes, and in most other threads it has been established that it doesn't matter.

In particular, see http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=130133&highlight=GDDR3 and http://forum.notebookreview.com/show...&postcount=108 for example...and there are others.

 

is it ddr2 or ddr3 for the GPU.

 

Prolly gonna arrive when I'm out of town too.

BOOO!

But the GT makes up for it.

WINNAR!

 

thx donald for the update. i think i'm gonna buy this laptop then. do you guys at pnb's do global shipping and accept intl cc's? if not, do you know a site that does?.

 

But the clock speed of the memory *does* appear to matter - it so happens that, to-date, the GDDR3 memory is clocked at 700mhz and the GDDR2 at 400mhz (is that fair Donald?).

Petrov.

 

I believe that one of those threads also said that asus used a double clock speed in their specs, so theirs would be 350 MHz while the DDR2 is a regular 400. Don't quote me on that though, I'll try to find the post that said that. I don't get how asus in the G1S could double the clock rate without any overheating/crashing problems, GDDR3 doesnt overclock THAT well does it?

Edit: Okay found it, heres the one that talked about the double clocked memory, I dont know if anyone knows for sure though:

 

No, it is not only not fair, it is not accurate.

1. The clocking of the memory has nothing to do with whether it is GDDR2 or GDDR3, other than GDDR3 is almost always clocked slower than GDDR2 (see below).
2. As was stated for example in the threads I linked to above (which you apparently neglected to read):

Petrov, please take the time to read those threads and you will understand the technology better .

 

We do not, and I am not sure which US companies that sell the IFL90 do, but it is available worldwide so I would recommend buying it locally. It is much better to do that so that you have fewer Customs and tax problems or shipping expenses should you have to return it for warranty repair.

 

Sure thing, technology isn't my profession, so I apologise if I'm off track. For my benefit Donald (and I sincerely do appreciate your helping me understand this), what question should be asked in relation to VRAM that would help consumers understanding of whether they can expect to see the performance difference currently shown in *synthetic* benchmarks between the G1S and other 8600 GT-base cards?

Thanks,

Petrov.

 

Petrov, no need for apology...we appreciate your questions and your enthusiasm to learn.

The real answer is to wait to see the synthetic benchmark results. But if you wanted to predict the outcome you would look at the amount of memory (not the type...that is GDDR2 or GDDR3) and the Core and Clock speeds with the memory clock speed being most important.

Since the "real" clock speed of the G1S seems to be 350MHz (before the inflated double-pump) and the "real" clock speed of the IFL90 is 400MHz you should expect the performance to be very close since there is only a 13% difference in clock speed.

IMHO the video card should not be the decision point between these two models...they are pretty comparable in that respect and either one will give you great gaming performance. What I would look at are the other features of each model and decide which had the features I wanted most...I would look at that fact that the IFL90 is totally configurable instead of the fixed configuration on the G1S (including the fact that you are forced to pay for the Vista Premium on the G1S while you can select which OS, or no OS, on the IFL90)...and then finally I would look at the warranty.

Don't get too hung up on the video card, because side by side in actual game play you will probably not be able to see any difference at all.

 

Got it - but what I don't understand is why, for example, the Zepto (8600GT 512Mb, 400mhz GDDR2) underperforms the Asus G1S by a 20+% margin in synthetic tests then? I know you're not a Zepto rep, but what would be your educated guess on the reason?

Absolutely agree about real world performance being very hard to differentiate between the two in any case and all those other factors also being very important.

Cheers again D.

Petrov.

 

The 700mhz and the 400mhz both come from the value the RVtune shows. So they are comparable directly. Either they are both "double pumped" or "real". I think it is the double pumped value for both so the real would be 200 and 350mhz.



This is what RVtune shows for the Zepto with GDDR2 after being overclocked to 450mhz (stock is 513/1026/400)



And this is the Asus G1s at stock

 

So, even though it appears that the ASUS is running GDDR3 and clocked much higher the difference in the synthetic benchmark scores is only 4%, which is not enough to be noticed by the human eye. You would need something over a 10-15% difference to be noticeable.

This proves the point that "...I would look at are the other features of each model and decide which had the features I wanted most...I would look at that fact that the IFL90 is totally configurable instead of the fixed configuration on the G1S (including the fact that you are forced to pay for the Vista Premium on the G1S while you can select which OS, or no OS, on the IFL90)...and then finally I would look at the warranty.

Don't get too hung up on the video card, because side by side in actual game play you will probably not be able to see any difference at all."

 

That's great news about the IFL90, Donald. Thanks for posting that.

I can somewhat vouch for this statement. Even after gaining about 20% in 3DMark05 score by overclocking, I didn't really perceive the increase in FPS when gaming. Stock and overclocked were both smooth sailing so it didn't really matter that much to me. A more discerning eye could probably appreciate it a little more though.

I really like the configure-it-yourself aspect of whitebooks. An Ensemble or preconfigured system would really have to be perfect for me before I chose one of those over a whitebook for myself. And the PowerPro warranty is just awesome.

And yes, don't let the GPU be the deal-breaker for you. What you are ultimately going to get in terms of gaming performance will be somewhat similar despite the difference in synthetic benchmarks scores. But if you really must squeeze every little bit of juice out of the GPU...then Asus' systems may be a little more suited to your tastes as they generally allow for higher clockspeeds.

 

That score is the Zepto overclocked to the max. The score without over clocking is 3860 compared to 4746 for the Asus G1s. That is about 900 points.


This is the Zepto not overclocked. It didnt have the RVtune in the pictuer that is why I posted the overclocked score before.

Other comparable scores are:
3dMark06 @ 1280x1024
Zepto 6224W @ stock clock: 3100
Asus G1s @ stock clock: 3630

The CPU and RAM is same for both.

 

Asus tends to deliver the higher-performing systems when it comes to benchmarks, no doubt. My system shipped with a stock 3DMark05 score of about 3000-3100. I think the Asus S96J/Z96J was more like 3600-3800 if I'm not mistaken. When I overclocked to about 3600+, I got about 10 FPS in older games...which I only sort of noticed while playing. But an overclocked Asus would no doubt go over 4K, so you could probably squeeze an extra few FPS out of it that way.

As Donald mentioned...go for the system that fits you best in terms of features, etc. If GPU performance is at the top of that list, then perhaps the G1s is your best option.

 

Donald - where does the 4% difference in benchmark scores come from? See wave's post above...genuinely sorry to keep asking about this, but all the data I've seen is showing > 15-20% difference in synthetic benchmark (3DMark06) scores for the G1S over other 8600GT-based cards?

Further - you said that GDDR3 is generally clocked lower than GDDR2, which wave is suggesting is not the case with the G1S. I'm just trying to get it clear in my head.

Petrov.

 

Petrov, you are getting too hung up on these scores...read the rest of the posts to see that these differences (as chrisyano says even up to 20% is barely noticeable) are simply not enough to be significant.

As for the 4% difference I took wave's post showing the overclocked IFL90 (at 450MHz memory clock) that scored 4547 vs. the Asus stock score at 4746. 4547/4746 = 96%...a 4% difference.

Look, no one is denying that the synthetic benchmark scores may be higher for the ASUS, but what those who really know their stuff are trying to tell those who tend to get hung up on these scores is that these small differences are virtually unnoticeable in real game play, and therefore should not be the ultimate decision point for purchasing, or even for trying to declare which one is "better".

However we certainly will encourage those who want to continue to be focused on these scores to do so with our sincere blessing. The rest of us will know that the cards are comparable with virtually no noticeable difference when gaming and move on to the other feature comparisons (including the warranty) as we make our decision as to which one we want. Then, after we make our decision we will recognize that it is our personal decision and that just because we decided one way or the other does not make the one we decided on to be de facto the "better" model. It is just better for us and the other one might be better for someone else.

 

Donald, I think we're on the same page. The only small comment I'd make is that any overclocked scored on the IFL90 should be compared to overclocked G1S scores. The data is all on the Asus forums on this site, which I won't link to here unless someone wants it. The difference on an overclocked-to-overclocked basis are the same as on an stock-to-stock basis (ca.15-25% for synthetic benchmark) - I think its slightly unfair to compare apples to oranges and highlighting a 4% difference, but I'll leave it there.

Your points on the overall decision and not getting too hungup on these benchmarks I agree with of course - I myself did not make the decision solely on a 3dMark benchmarks, but discussing it and making sure we're all speaking the same language - I hope - does not mean I'm hung up on it.

Thanks again for engaging with a humble consumer!

Petrov.

 

That was my mistake. I posted the screenshot of the Asus G1s and the overclocked Zepto right next to each other.

I am sure Paladin didnt mean to compare apple with oranges. He already corrected what he said anyway.

 

wow guys lets stop this non-sense. First off there are no differences between GDDR2 and GDRR3 at the same clock speeds. Next GDDR3 can scale to much higher speeds than GDDR2. It is also cheaper to produce now. Also both are double pumped. In most apps they will show you 400MHZ for the ram which means its really running at 800. Finally GDDR3 uses less power vs GDDR2 at the same clock speeds.

 

I have found that 3DMark is not a good indicator of performance for the DirectX 10 video cards (GeForce 8M series). The scores are misleading and not indicative of real world performance. I would strongly suggest avoiding any sort of judgment calls based on synthetic scores.

Regardless of whether G1S does better in 3DMark, I am almost certain that if both the IFL90 and it have the 8600M-GT, real-world performance in actual games will be basically the same. Donald is right that the difference will most likely not be noticeable.

Don't forget that you cannot compare benchmark scores on different operating systems and for comparable results both cards should be using the same drivers. You might want to double-check the scores for the Asus and the Compal.

 

This guys got it right.... Think of DDR2 -> DDR3 as a revision to the technology, not an improvement in performance.

The biggest difference is the capabilities of the chip (makes no difference in the speed, a clock cycle is the same on any hardware of any chip), the power requirements, and some of the manufacturing practices(DDR3 should be all RoHS I believe, which just mean's it a "GREEN").

This thread has gone to trash over synthetic benchmarks... These benchmarks are only used as a way to give a general user an idea of the performance because it's easier then trying to get technical into memory timings and throughput bottlenecks.

I definitely see a need for that sticky I proposed doing on Benchmarks. A few more days for final's and then I'll get on it. (If I don't get impatient and do it anyways).

 

Kinda thought this thread was about shipping dates. :|

If not I would like to add that the macbook pro with a 128mb 8600GT, 2.2ghz processor, 2gb ddr2 ram, 5400rpm HD (BOOOOOO) and a 200$ student discount still costs more than a IFL90 w512 vid ram, and 7200rpm HD.

I was astonished.

Why does apple feel the need to outprice everybody? :|

 

This is pulling even further off topic. I suggest you ask this on the mac forum.

The short answer probably has something to do with quality and testing of apple/mac products.

 

The more correct answer is that apple thinks it's cooler so it adds $ for kudos...

 

Hmm.. I'm going to have to disagree with you.. ton's of money goes into R&D at Apple because they validate all hardware, write drivers and validate those when needed, they write ton's of their own applications which also get internally validated.. No other company to date offers such a complete package with the same level of product assurance. They also have ton's of consumer analysis for all segments of their product lines to ensure that everything "just works" and that it also works the way people think.

I could go on for a while on this... It's not to say that nobody else cares as much, or works hard to make a quality product, but it's a closed system at Apple, which means there is less room for cutting costs.

This topic needs to be moved over to the apple group though. Maybe Chrisyano can help here.. I really don't want this debate interfering with Paladin44's post.

 

Paladin, I understand your a professional at work and that you directly represent powernotebooks.com. I ran across your page before I came across these forums and was very tempted to buy from you.

Then I came across the Asus G1S-A1 from these forums.

If we just drop the fact that scores dont matter and that were were incorrect about the clock speeds on the memory and go to what point your making about the features, thats exactly what I wanted to do.

I'll be Frank I like the 10:15 because its plane, sure the G1S may get more questions, comments, eyes turned, and may look more inplace at a lan party or somthing, but plane is good because its neutral and you wont look odd when you have it out in public as a full grown man.

So I went and configured one with the options I wanted, wich just so happen to be the exact same options the G1S comes with because thats pretty much my standard for what I want in a new machine.

Im looking at 1894$ as a price tag.

I can also find the G1S for like 1800$ new from etailors and even had the chance for a 1 day old model for 1650$ from the forums here.

Do you mind trying to your best efforts to explane what real benifit this machine has over the asus rather than just saying "look at the features"

The price at first looks good, but your missing key things like a wirless card, and it has a small hdd, there is no OS, ect.

Once you add that stuff in, its the same cost!

Let me see what you have.

> A slightly better battery if you get the better screen (or pay extra with the standard)
> A 1 year longer warrenty

Thats pretty much it when you configure it to top specs thats the advantage you have.

Plus there is the free bag/mouse with Asus :/

This isnt to bash your store or your products but I have the right to challenge what you say and see what you personally feel really makes this product worth while.

If sombody didnt configure it to higher specs, I dont think they would be serious gamers and wouldnt be after a machine with a gpu like this one and there are even better deals out there than the Asus or this model for much less money with lesser gpus.

In reality im 99.9% going after a Asus C90 because it has the best price and performance of the whole lot, and still looks plane but stylish at the same time. Im no Asus fan this is my first notebook I just simiply went with what seems logical.

 

^^^ Wouldnt a better place for this be in the G1S vs IFL90 thread?

If you want everything thats included in the G1S, you're probably better off choosing that model. I didn't need the higher processor, the bluetooth or the "gaming rig" look. I am buying a full version of Vista on my own, and my machine came to 1500. I did get a 7200rpm HDD, the wireless, the Robson and the 7300 processor. I think my build will game just fine, tyvm.

 

"This isn't to bash your store or your products but I have the right to challenge what you say and see what you personally feel really makes this product worth while"

I don't take this a bashing at all, its an honest question.

What I appreciate about the IFL90 is the control you have over the configuration. When you go configure it to be the same as the G1S it is pretty close to the same price. However, to be able to configure it with just the ram, HD, OS is worth a lot to me. I have a valid retail license to Vista Business that is transferable to this laptop. I'm force into another Vista license with the G1S. I wanted a 7200rpm HD. I could get that upgraded with the G1S, but it cost more (from the dealer I spoke with) than configuring the IFL90 with it. I also got 1 2gig stick of ram. On the G1S I'd have to throw a stick away to move to 3 gig. I also wanted Robson.

So for just over $1700 I was able to figure exactly the machine i wanted. If you want a license to Vista Ultimate, want a 5400rpm 160gig HD, want 2X1gig ram and don't mind the look the G1S maybe a better choice. Personally, I think if the G1S didn't have all the florescent green it'd be hard to beat on looks.

PowerNotebooks also gives you a 3 year warranty with paid shipping both ways. Thats valuable to anyone.

So, to say it briefly, you can't discount the value of being able to easily configure the IFL90 to exactly what you want and the value of the warranty from a company like PowerNotebooks.

 

vicious, why not give me a call so I can point out several of the advantages to you personally. I have already pointed them out in writing here in both threads that you have read, but I don't think you fully understand what I am talking about. Hopefully if we get a chance to talk I can explain them to you better.

Oh, and how do you compare the inferior video card on the C90, the use of a desktop processor that will give you short battery life, additional heat and noise, and have it come out to be the better choice?

We can discuss all this at length when you call.

Semper Fi

 

Vicious, just a note of wisdom that might help you out with your question towards the Compal vs Asus...

If the features/components aren't enough to seal the deal, the next thing you look to is the service, since in reality that's what you are paying for. (Hardware cost is about the same per volume lot to all the resellers, and most of the hardware in notebooks is the same)

This is where I think you will find that a company such as powernotebooks.com will shine compared to Asus in terms of service and support. Can you call asus 24/7 with a technical problem and have a true english speaking tech pick the phone up within a few rings? (as in no prompt-push-wait phone system) Their support also doesn't read from prompters, ignoring any details you have to say and treating you like you know nothing. All the staff has always been very on the ball with updated details throughout the ordering process, and follow-up. Can you chat online with any of their reps for up-to-the-minute facts? There is also (As stated above) a huge bit of flexibility offered on the Compal brand that Asus generally doesn't have.

We are very privileged in fact to have people such as Paladin44 (And recently Ron has come out to play as Pendeta here on the forum's!) representing their company as real people, talking to us as real people. I think this is were the size of their company (or lack of) gives them the edge.

As for the free bag and mouse.. I don't think it is all that truly desired among people wanting to make the purchase. Alot of people that choose to use an external mouse do so because they have a specific mouse they like (for me it is a Logitech VX Revolution), and I already have a backpack that I'm going to use till it tears from my shoulders (Which after 4 years it still seems new even though I take it everywhere). It reminds me to much of the free toy in a Happy Meal (Or box of cereal).