XMG Neo 15 / Eluktronics Mech-15 G3
So it looks like XMG is adding a liquid cooler to the Neo 15. I have no idea if Eluktronics is planning on doing the same, but I’ll be keeping an eye on this one.
PS I feel since this deserves its own thread because this is such a unique idea that isn’t gonna cost as much as a used car like asus models did.
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Looks great. This is the kind of innovation I would expect from industry leaders.
Terreos likes this. -
Definitely gonna be keeping an eye on availability on this one. Unlike the Asus water cooled laptop this looks simple and atleast purchasable. Plus the fact that it’s just going to have the tubes already on all XMG 15 laptops means you can always buy the pump later. Or make you own if your handy enough. The draining part is the one weak spot I see. So hopefully that gets upgraded if this ends up being successful.
I’m hoping it’s not just XMG doing this and Eluktronics is planning on offering this. -
As for other OEMs, we can hope, although this looks like a well-deserved hard slap in the face for Alienware management, for example, who went all-in on thin and light.
On the flipaide though, I would think this could use a 330W power supply as 280W won't drive the CPU and GPU at full power. -
This honestly is a big slap to any big OEM that is just doing spec upgrades. The fact that a Tong Fang reseller is the one coming up with something new and desirable is sad. But, also great for us.
Atleast it's a step up from the 240w brick they were using before.
I imagine this thing is gonna dominate the benchmark high scores for sure when these are released. -
saturnotaku Notebook Nobel Laureate
Unpopular opinion: This is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen.
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Bear in mind this product targets power laptop users, as in "requiring a lot of computational power" . Would you describe yourself as one? If not, this clearly isn't for you. -
saturnotaku Notebook Nobel Laureate
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If it didn't leak water so haphazardly, so that getting it into the ports wasn't an issue, i would be much more interested in the device.
My laptop is moved around too much. This product scares me. It's very cool though and not priced terribly.
If the water cooler is still around in a few years and it's not crazy expensive at that point, it could be an interesting upgrade path if you bought the laptop without it. -
Last edited: Jan 6, 2022
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I guess this is only suitable for a very small percentage of users who are really determined to get the most out of their laptop. For most people, an eGPU is more practical as it can also be used as a docking station that adds additional USB ports, HDMI connections etc (like most people, my eGPU is gathering dust!).
Personally, I'd rather just build an ITX gaming PC. -
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Still, I have no doubt that I could stick my 3090 in my Razer eGPU and get better performance than any mobile GPU that is water-cooled. Admittedly, that setup is more expensive, but it would be a similar story with lower-end RTX 30 series cards.
Thunderbolt eGPUs will also work with many different laptops, whilst this thing will end up in some silicon dump site in a couple of years as it only works with one laptop.
The question is: How much is this big heavy desktop monster actually going to help CPU and GPU performance?Terreos likes this. -
eGPUs are not mutually exclusive with this. You can have a cool and quiet watercooled laptop driving a eGPU (in addition to the internal dGPU in some cases).
Of course, the main issues with eGPUs right now are small enclosures, video card prices, and somewhat limited bandwidth. -
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With regards to noise. I tested my ASUS 3070 in my eGPU last year and it was almost silent. With the right GPU and right fan (e.g. Noctua), an eGPU should be quiet.
For the record, I do appreciate XMG working on something like this and developing something new. I like when computing companies take risks and try something different.
Perhaps I'd feel differently if this was smaller. The sheer size and weight of this thing puts me off.Terreos likes this. -
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Again, I was never referring to the weight of the laptop.
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The Oasis cooling is gonna be heavy since it's full of water. And they demo the improvements to temps in the video. It's enough that the GPU would definitely boost higher with GPU Boost all on it's own.
System0 likes this. -
Terreos likes this.
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According to XMG, the cooler weighs 1.39KG when filled (though I guess weight is kind of irrelevant when it sits on the desk, the size is a bigger concern).
https://www.xmg.gg/en/xmg-oasis/
Rather than use a 2.1KG gaming laptop with this, I'd rather move up to a 2.5KG gaming laptop that has less thermal issues.Terreos likes this. -
EDIT
https://www.xmg.gg/en/xmg-oasis/
They have an unboxing video. It's very small. So it's actually gonna be easy to place even on a small desk.etern4l likes this. -
I'll keep tabs on this and see how it performs when the reviews etc come out. I'm keen to know how the laptop performs without water cooling and how much it improves once connected. Maybe I'm too skeptical about what the benchmarks will actually be hahaetern4l likes this. -
203 x 75 x 186 mm (L x W x H) - this thing is tiny.
The temps are phenomenal, almost too good to be true, but we have to remember that rhe laptop effectively has two complementary cooling systems.Terreos likes this. -
They also have a survey around the product linked on their page.
https://www.xmg.gg/en/xmg-oasis/
I never owned any of their products which increasingly feels like a mistake. Too bad they closed their UK shop. -
etern4l likes this.
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Also on the point on power, just realised this doesn't have a 3080ti config so it skirts the edge I suppose.
Still, it will have to contend with shunt modded 3080 laptops so it likely won't top the charts until its shunt modded as well. -
https://www.xmg.gg/en/news-xmg-neo-15-e22/
While I would consign shunt modded laptops to a separate mad science category, I think there is little argument here overall - the 280W adapter is underpowered, particularly given the exceptional on paper cooling.
Still, when running heavy loads on a laptop for extended periods, as opposed to episodic benchmarking stunts, the primary concern is heat and its impact on laptop's expected lifespan, and this seems to be addressing the issue rather well. Noise can also be a significant consideration and again this scores well in that category.Last edited: Jan 13, 2022seanwee likes this. -
In fact, having more parts increases the likelihood something will fail prematurely. Where laptop fans can be re-lubricated or replaced easily I'm not sure this parts in this custom water cooling solution will be so easy to replace. The pump could fail, the water cooling loop in the laptop could corrode and the replacement parts will likely be unavailable in 5 years if not earlier. -
Yes, the internal loop is an additional point of faiure to consider, although they said its made of aluminum and immune to corrosion. I wouldn't personally be worried about that at all. That leaves tbe connector - probably the weakest link. The external components are fairly cheap. At the end of the day, should the water cooling subsystem fail, one is most likely left with a competent air-cooled system weighing 2.1kg, although to be fair, it's also possible to end up with the whole system ruined. That's the usual tradeoff involved in WC systems - the nice difference here is that it's a hybrid solution.Last edited: Jan 14, 2022 -
Hi everyone,
thank you for all the positive feedback. Before this forum closes down, I would like to reply to some of your comments. Maybe I will you some of you on our own sub-reddit or on our Discord server. We have already assembled a nice little community of enthusiasts on Discord, including the officially condoned #modding-and-overclocking channel.
We have this formula: [CPU/0.8] + [GPU] + 20W[System] + 10W[Liquid Cooling] = Total System Power Consumption
The 0.8 divisor in the CPU comes from the fact that Intel's CPU Package Power is measured after voltage regulators, while AMD CPU and NVIDIA GPU are measured before.
This this formula I can present this table:
This table shows the maximum GPU Power of each GPU on the horizontal lines. Assuming you run each GPU at its highest available power budget, the vertical collumns show you how much CPU Package Power you can add to reach a specific total system power consumption.
Please note that the 20W (System) and 10W (Liquid Cooling) already have a lot of headroom. In reality, the Liquid Cooling does not take more than 6.5 Watts.
Color Index:
- Yellow = Within 230W adapter spec
- Green = Within 280W adapter spec
- Red = Within 330W adapter spec
- Grey = Above 330W adapter spec
CPU power consumption during gaming is usually well below 40W, especially for the highly efficient Alder Lake generation.
If you have a benchmark or a realistic work-load which maxes out both CPU and GPU, please let me know. I'm looking for something to replace Furmark+Prime95.
Perhaps rendering in Blender with and without Optix in parallel? Is this possible or realistic? I'm not sure.
And don't worry about peak loads beyond these numbers. 280W is the "sustained load" output power spec of the adapter. The peak and surge loads are allowed to be higher, according to the 280W adapter's spec sheet:
- 115% (322W) for 5 seconds
- 120% (336W) for 1 second
- 130% (364W) for 0.5 seconds
- 170% (476W) for 2ms
- [etc.]
Older adapters (between 90W and 230W) will be compatible with the new laptop generation. But the adapters (280W and 330W) will not be compatible with older laptops. The difference is not in the mechanical plug, but in the metallurgic properties of both DC jack and DC plug. More details on this will be announced next week when we start the pre-order phase of XMG NEO 15 (E22).
- Extension tubes for XMG NEO to help with the drainage of liquid.
- A custom fitted ball pump as an alternative for draining XMG NEO.
Cheers,
TomLast edited: Jan 22, 2022 - Yellow = Within 230W adapter spec
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"The 0.8 divisor in the CPU comes from the fact that Intel's CPU Package Power is measured after voltage regulators, while AMD CPU and NVIDIA GPU are measured before."
If Intel utilises 0.8x W after voltage regulators, that means it needs x/0.8W BEFORE voltage regulators, no?
PSU -> voltage regulator -> CPU
If that were the case then obviously the case for a bigger PSU would be clear cut.
Additionally, when I look at the power draw on an Intel CPU in reference to the overall power draw, I just see the expected number, no multipliers.
Either way, I love the product idea and specs overall, and also happy to see the E21 had 93Whr battery (I'm assuming the E22 offers no less). I guess the only thing really missing is 4 RAM slots / 128GB RAM support, but this could be less important for a while given DDR5 prices lol -
Again:
- HWiNFO64 reads 45W CPU Package Power (see header in my table)
- 45W/0.8 = 56.25W ← this is what the mainboard really needs to deliver. This is what is being used to calculate the total sum in each cell of the table.
Cheers,
Tom -
Of course, with undervolting the realistic max CPU power draw under full load would be more along the lines of 65W, but that still goes over the 280W limit.
In practice, most people would get a way with less CPU power, but if you could support 330W as an option, that would be awesome, and would synergise with the watercooling.
Didn't know ADL P doesn't support 4 DIMMS, that's a shame. Wasn't joking about that at all. Would be a shame to have to settle for something like a Dell Precision (will be interesting to see if they cut the RAM slots with 12th gen), just because I need more RAM and that somehow still supports 4 DIMMs. Appreciate we are not talking about typical gaming applications here, but people use these kind of systems for other purposes.Last edited: Jan 22, 2022XMG likes this. -
XMG likes this.
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Meanwhile, we have launched a big thread with lots of technical information regarding the laptop that will support this water cooling solution:
Chapters:
- Roadmap and Product Pages
- New Specifications and Platform Updates
- New GPU Power Limits, courtesy of NVIDIA
- Set up or max-out your own performance profile
- NVIDIA Whisper Mode 2.0 in 'Balanced' profile
- Alder Lake Mobile Platform and Series Overview
- DDR5: Single DIMM vs. Dual DIMM Performance
- Removing the Bottom Case requires a few additional screws
- DisplayPort Support via Thunderbolt 4 in Alder Lake P Platform
- Power Supply: New Socket, New Adapter, Backward Compatibility
- Improved Speakers and better sound
- Future plans for XMG NEO series
- Supply Schedule and Upcoming Reviews
Tom
*Watercooled* XMG Neo 15 / Eluktronics Mech-15 G3
Discussion in 'Other Manufacturers' started by Terreos, Jan 6, 2022.