Xotic OCZ FORCE EXTREME 840 Questions

HEy all I have a few question about Xotic and the Etreme 840.
What do you guys think of Xotic warrenty? It seems better than most of the other companys...3 yrs and 24/7 tech support for the life of the computer.

Are they a good company? You know One that can be trusted and puts out good products?

What do people think of the 840? I am told it is the same as the AW....with out the "silly" Alien Head.

Is it try you can on your own upgrade the the procs, GC's, and what not?

Is this a dependable platform?

I am looking at getting the below specs any input and advise greatly appreciated. I went with HP and got burned. This needs to last me awhile. I am starting my own buisness, plus like to game and all the normal email blah blah stuff. I am going kinda bare as I want to try and save money and do the upgrades myself when I can. I would like to upgrade the cards when the 4850 come out plus another stick of 2g. Will this config get me by for awhile?

17" WUXGA "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright Glossy Screen (1920x1200)
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound
30 Day 0 Dead Pixel Guarantee
Intel® P9600 45nm "Montevina" Core™2 Duo 2.66GHz w/6MB L2 On-die cache - 1066MHz FSB 25 watt ( + 165 )
ATI HD3870 512MB PCI-Express DDR3 DX10 (User Upgradeable)
2,048MB (1 SODIMM) DDR3 1066MHz Dual Channel Memory
Combo Dual Layer SuperMulti 8X DVDRW Drive w/ Software
250GB 7200RPM WD or Seagate (Serial-ATA II 3GB/s) - Sale Promotion!
---I have a 360 7200 at home to add to the system-----
Internal 7-in-1 Card Reader (MS/MS Pro/MS Duo/MS Pro Duo/SD/Mini-SD/MMC/RS)

Integrated Bluetooth® EDR
Built-in Intel® PRO/Wireless 5300 802.11 a/g/n Wi-Fi Link
Built in 2.0 Megapixel Camera
Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
Smart Li-ion Battery (12 Cell)
Integrated Fingerprint Reader
Windows Vista Ultimate 64-Bit w/ Drivers & Utilities CD's
total $2094 and change

Thanks for any input.

 

Xotic takes care of their customers, and yes it is very upgradeable in terms of cpu, and in the future, gpu, HDD, and ram. I have heard nothing but good things about their parts and labor warranty. As for dependability there are, as with any computer a few faulty ones here and there, but that is what the extra 3-7 days of Quality Assurance is for, overall build quality is astoundingly solid, and the screen is beautiful.
Sounds good to me, except if you are planning on running vista x64, in which you would be safer with 4gb ram. As well, I might suggest one of the Intel Extreme cpus and a crossfire setup if benchmarking and gaming are your goals.

 

i have heard good things and i have the silly computer with the alien head lol but the computer itself is solid and nice its like a tank i wouldnt be scared to sit on it or drop it a couple feet

 

Yes they are a good company.

It is the same machine without the funny Alien head, a different scree (glossy instead of matte) and the 840 has a glossy plastic finish, which drives me nuts (wipe, wipe, wipe) with fingerprints.

Yes, you can within reason--until the mobilty 487o comes out, though, no guarantees.

So far, so good

It looks like you are going for the single graphic gpu? Expect less performance than the nvidia 9800. I am not a huge gamer and did the same thing. I have the same configuration with the exception that I got a 320gb harddrive and 4gb of ram

I like the laptop fine, but it is not perfect--no laptop is.

It is a very solid notebook with very nice build quality. There is a review worth reading here:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=347729

I'd say it is pretty much spot on

 

Hey Mister Moo,
LOL the Silly alien head was a quote from your buddy E. Thanks for the feed back I appreciate it.

 

GerryF19,
Thanks for the reply. I was looking at trying to save money. I can get the other 2g card cheaper from Newegg as far as the 4g option you menationed. If i read the spec right on Xotic the 2 g is a 1x 2 gig card . I was planning on going with the 1 Grafic card because of the dual 4850 coming out. Is that not recommened? I was also trying to save money. I have a 320 7200 HD already looking for a home. Oh do you know if I can get the carrier seperatly or have to go with the dual set up? On the HDX18 they didn't have the carrier readlly availible. So I went with the cheapest dual HD config and upgraded to the 320. I am planning doing this as well with this one. Single father with a grandchild as well at home. I don't do much as far as myself so this is my treat. I want a system that I can use for a while and be able to keep it upto date with out having to buy a new box.

 

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah the warrenty and tech support is a big thing for me. I am just getting into the computer thing at this level so I have lots of questions. This will be my first labtop. Don't count the POS of the HDX18. I work for a large computer company. I am a buyer of server/worstation memeory, mech, and backpacks. So I understand about some bad systems can get through the cracks. I also like the fact that it is domestic support. That was a huge frustation for me dealing with on the HDX. Benchmarking not really sure what that is.....seen the post about E and some of the others. Gaming yeah I play a few when I can find the time. Some shooters but mostly RPG. I am sure this will be over kill for the RPG, but I want a sytem that can do most anything, as it will be my only system.

 

One other quick question would I need a notebook cooler for this one? Or would it be ok with out one?

 

I actually did the same thing with RAM....although I already had the ram. Just so you know what to order, the ram inside mine was manufacturered by Micron with the specs of ddr3-1066, with 7-7-7-20 timing.
Surprisingly to me, the OCZ listed on new egg as a 8-8-8-27 timing. You want your RAM to match. Fortunately, the stick I had was a match.

I also purchased a single gpu because a) I rarely play games, and when I do, it is usually light gaming not likely to stress this card, and b) I figured I would buy a matching hd3870 from someone who upgrades to the hd4870.

You don't need to get the carrier--the second carrier is attached to the door even if you only buy a single drive (I actually had to check this--as I was not sure.) I am pretty certain they even threw in a package of screws now that I think about it, but my wife tossed the box out with that and the little extra backlid logo thing.

I have been thinking about what I like and do not over the past day, in addition to some other things.

Thinks that stop me from giving this an unqualified 10 out of 10
a)Super glossy finish on case. Fingerprint magnet.
b)Power cord attachment is an "L" shaped plug in the back as well as a inset male power socket. Why don't I like this? I repair a lot of computers, including laptops and those that I see with bad jacks are almost always the inset male kind (the male prong snaps at the base of the jack)--in addition, the L-shaped female plug that you snap into the chassis is likely to result in more stress if removed improperly (dog running by the table with the laptop gets tangled). Unfortunately, the male inset is becoming more and more popular with ODMs.
c)Keyboard--I should be careful here...the keyboard is better than 90 percent of the latop keyboards out there...I as hoping for a Lenovo t-series feel and it is almost there, but not quite. It is a little "loose" so the keys give a slight, almost imperceptible sway, but it's there (at least on mine)--this also results in a slight more noise then the thinkpads. Still, way above others..just thought it might be better.
d) fingerprint reader approved sound drove me nuts until I changed it by hacking the resource file
e)Screen is bright, but I would have preferred a few more lumins....and a little too much backlight bleed on the bottom
f) ATI HD2870--kind of hoped it would be a little closer to the nvidia 9800gs...I don't really need it, but I was hoping ATI had a little more up their sleeve.
g) location of del + - / * on the number pad
h) speakers. I expected better. My 5 year old np5680 from sager actually has as good a sound, and there is no subwoofer on that (there is a minsubwoofer on this, but its a subwoofer in name only)

Things that exceeded expectations.
a) Battery life. Granted, I am not running two GPUs, but I have got between 2.5 and 3.5 hours depending on what I am doing...never expected that with this
b) Despite the less than super bright display and backlight bleed, it is nonetheless gorgeous when it comes to contrast, color, and redraw time.
c) Heat distribution--again, not pushing two GPUs and only running (only, that's funny, I just replaced a P4 laptop) a p9600 processor, but I have yet to push this thing over 54 centigrade even during torture testing--without a laptop cooler. I would still get a cooler if I were you, but it is not a critical need for normal work.
d)I know this is silly, but I hate laptops with headphone jacks in the front. Drives me nuts. Cord gets in the way when I am doing anything. I like mine on the side and the volume wheel is a nice touch.
e) The intel 5300 wireless had far greater range than my previous wireless G--even when connecting to a G-network. Now if only I could figure out which neighbor has a network named "IHASHAMBURGERS"
f) location of certain function keys aside, i love having a number pad.
g) quiet. OK, it makes noise, but I had to turn off my other laptop to hear it. Again, no second GPU.
h) mostly solid as a rock. the base is rock solid and the keyboard has no flex. The screen does flex as any 17-inch would--the lid could have been reinforced better, but in actual use this is of little consequence. Just don't move it around by grabbing the screen (I've seen people do this).
i) Hinge design. Time will tell, but the hinge seems very solid. I have a closet full of laptops with cracked hinges.
j) Warranty and company. XoticPC folks are around on these forums quite a bit and the company has been in existence for more than a decade. That means something to me. I would be very surprised if I ever need tech support beyond warranty work, but from all I have heard the folks bend over backwards to help.

 

WOW thanks for the info. You really went out of your way I appreciate that. Why does the Mem have to match....What happens if it doesn't?I feel really stupid as I buy this stuff for my company.

 

I ordered mine yesterday. Paypal e-check clears end of today. I'm excited.
This thread only affirms my decision to go with the 840.

From what I've researched I'd go with the laptop cooler. I didn't order mine w/ my build as I want to see what else is offered.

 

I came this close (holds fingers apart a smidge) to screwing this explanation up because I always say one thing and mean another.

So, here it goes in simple terms.

This laptop comes with a PM45 chipset, which supports dual channel mode for memory.

Dual Channel Ram is not unlike a RAID harddrive setup. When your computer writes data to RAM, it writes half on a bank on one stick and half on a bank of the second stick. When it reads data from ram, it can then read half the data from one stick and half from the other stick.

This is faster than reading (or writing) everything from from or to a single stick....think of it as a one lane vs. a two lane road.

Now, taking the two lane road analogy farther. Let's say you have 12 grooms in 12 cars coming down lane 1 and you have 12 brides in 12 cars coming down the other lane and you are a preacher who is going to marry each of the grooms and bridges (and also add in that they have to come in a certian order---each groom belongs to a given bride.

Now, if both lanes are traveling 50 mph, each groom and bride arrive at the same time, you marry them, and the next couple arrives. That is efficient and everything runs smoothly.

Now, if one lane is moving 25mph and the other is running 50mph, You've got a whole line of grooms line up waiting for the brides (you better hope the grooms are driving in the fast lane, because if the brides arrive first and have to wait for the grooms, dang, bridezilla). Either way, the guests are mad, no one gets to the reception on time, and there's always a crowd at the church door as people are coming in and going out at the same time. It's ineffcient.

So, with RAM, you don't want to be waiting around with half your data still in RAM when the CPU is ready to process it.

Incidently, you can complicate things even more by adding in the FSB---think of it as the center aisle in the church in our above analogy. If the aisle is too skinny and the bridge and groom have to squeeze through the aise, your CPU is left waiting and the data is bunching up. When your CPU and ram are are not operating at peak efficency (the proper speed for the CPU and FSB), you have ram working together but the CPU is not getting data fast enough.

When FSB and CPU are properly paired, it is known as the CPU and RAM working in sync or syhnchronously...if the two are not oeprating at the correct speed, it is known as the ram and cpu being out of sync, or asyhchronously.

Throwing overclocking out the window, your CPUs available in this laptop communicate across the FSB at 1066mhz, so your ram should also communicate back with the CPU at that speed (hence, the ddr3 1066 memory).

As for memory timing(ex: 7.7.7.20)
, timings measure the time the memory chip delays doing something internally. You want the memory timings to be the same just as you want the speed to be the same so that your computer isn't waiting around wasting time waiting for one stick of memory to feed it data. If the sticks differ, there is a sync problem and things are not as efficient as they should be.


Some people swear that not only should memory be rated at the same speed and the same timings, but they should come from the same batch of memory from the same company. That's pushing things a bit in my mind, but they will swear that crashes result if you don't match everything.

For me it is a matter of efficiency, but for those who overclock, stability issues may arrise if things are not matched.

 

Thanks that made it easy to understand. I was aware of the speed issue. Not the Lat stuff. Thanks again. I hope you don't mind if i use this at work. This was really helpfull.

 

If you use memory with mismatched timings, the bios will slow all of the memory down to the speed of the slowest module.

This is not to say that you won't get errors if you totally mismatch memory but in theory everything should be fine even with mismatched memory.

 

BIOS will not slow down anything, per se, it's just that can only go as fast as the slowest link--and it's not so much the timing, which relates to latency, but the speed....I think we are talking about the same thing, just using different terminology.

As it is, it goes back to the old question--if you have a choice between perfectly matched memory or MORE memory, which is better?

If you are regularly paging out to the harddrive with 512mb of ram, 1gb of mismatched memory is better than page swapping.

 

I understand what you are saying. I know you can't mix speed 667, 800, 1066 etc etc. That I knew. I meant the cas Lat. 7 vrs 8. That sort of thing.

 

actually, you can--that is waht theriko was referring to.

Mix 667 and 1066 and all your ram will be like 667. Course that means you wasted any extra money you spend on 1066

My explanation is a bit simple--when you start mixing ram with different latency it can become even dodgier. For example, when you have a CAS of 20 and a CAS of 27, your slower ram doesn't wait for 7 wait states until the other catches up...there is even more overhead associated...now in the end, we're talking micromilliseconds, but it does introduce inefficiency

 

correct. your ram will always default to whatever the slowest stick is timing and speed wise.

 

Actually z, I don't think the latency works that way.

Let's say you have two sticks of pc3 8500 ram operating at 1066mhtz, but one has a latency of 7-7-7-20 and the other has a latency of 8-8-8-27.

Technically both operate at 1066mghtz, but the latency is different (first number is the one we care about, so 7v8)....if I remember correctly, the latency does not change on the faster stick, and it is more than just waiting an extra cycle for the the slower one to catch up by one wait cycle---there is actually a greater payment for the lack of synchronicity. I don't think it is a lowest common denominator (uhm 56 wait states--I know that is not the phrase i want, but...?), but it is actually worse than running at the speed of the slower stick.

Now, on a motherboard with additional settings, you can direct your motherboard to treat both ram sticks as 8-8-8-27, but most laptops don't have that kind of granular control so they use the spd rating, which means your ram is running asynchronously.

 

it's times like this we need a freaking electrical engineer around here.

 

well yeah sorry i should have explained better. i meant the speed will be automatically matched but in theory you should match the timings as well to the slowest stick. in some case this is done automatically by the bios but other times it has to be done manually. if your bios doesnt have the option you can always use memset or change the stock settings of the one stick to match the slower one