help! T61 vs IFL90

I narrowed it down to these two models. I threw out the FZ because if I was to go 15.4", I might as well get something with more power and a higher rez screen, even though it was sexy as heck.

I'm having a hard time deciding between the two.

my situation is that i'm in college abroad. the computer i use in college isnt too great and i get kicked off it since it has to be shared. i don't have a tv here either.

back at home, i have a top of the line (for 2004) desktop which is still very sufficient for my needs, it has an x700 class video card at the moment. however thats at home and I only go back perhaps twice a year.

at the moment i cant stand being moved around computers in college.

so i'm looking at a
T61 with an nvidia quadro 140M graphics card

or

a Compal IFL 90, with wsxga+ screen, nvidia 8600gt, and a tv tuner.

probably start with 1gb then add another 1gb later by myself. 2ghz, im looking at. maybe 120 or 160gb 5400 rpm HD although i already have an external keyboard.

uses? well to be my main computer while in college.. dunno if I willl use it often when I come back home for visits..but either way I think both video cards are superior to the x700 I have back home.
I'll carry it around twice a day.. once to school where it will stay in one spot (its in a secure area). and then when I return to that spot, pick up my laptop then go home where it will sit on my desk.

gaming.. not too much since school work keeps me busy but I do like Hitman blood money.

 

Those notebooks are for opposite reasons. The IFL90 is for gaming, the T61 is for business and CAD. each one will do the other moderately well. Whichever of those is your primary interest should decide which one you should get.

 

I wouldn't compare notebooks that aren't exaclty comparable. What was last time Sony FZ vs. T61... so what would be the next? T61 vs. the world.

Why don't you just fill out the FAQ, so you can get more adequate recommendations.

 

Granted the T61 is aimed at businesses but what is it concretely that the T61 can do that the IFL90 can't?

 

The IFL90 will handle business applications as well or better than the T61. The IFL90 has a much more powerful GPU. The build of the T61 might be alittle better than the IFL90 because of its magnesium cage. Other than that and possibly weight, I think the IFL90 would win in every other catagory.

And I'd trust the Compal dealers to give you better support.

 

Yep, Donsell, that's what I would expect.

 

From my understanding, the drivers for the Quadro processors are optimized for graphic manipulation and CAD work but all of the threads I could find on them were concerned with the Quadro's ability to play games, so I'm not sure what that means unless its a more accurate pixel placement. Most people are saying that there is a 2-5% loss in game play - something I don't think you'd notice.

The cards themselves are same as their non-Quadro counterparts and you can even run the non-quadro drivers on them.

As far as business applications go, i think you can say if thats all you do the GPU in the Compal would be overkill - you're just not going to push it and since it'll consume more power you might have better battery life with the T61 quadro, but you might as well get the T61 with the X3100 integrated graphics which will be even better on the battery. I don't really think of CAD and graphic manipulation as business applications.

But as far as business application performance the GPU in the Compal will perform just as fine if not better than the Quatro in the T61.

 

When I said that I woudn't compare them I said it because obviuosly they are targeted at different markets, not to mention that are different sizes.

Otherwise, the T61 has much better build quality, first due to the carbon fiber case and second due to the magnesuim alloy roll cage in the body and lid. The IFL90 won't have any of that. Also, the keyboard of the T61 will be light years better, if you assume that the IFL90 have the same consumer-level keyboard that the HEL 80 did, which most probably will be the case.

If you want a 15.4" gaming alternative of the T61, then the upcoming Asus V1Js or the HP 8510p are two.

The Compal IFL90 is rather an alternative of the Asus G1s. Other than that, I personally would not choose this notebook, if you want to carry it around since it's rather bulky compared to other 15.4" notebooks.

In the end, if you aren't a big gamer the NVS 140 will be sufficient and the T61 obviously will be much more portable...

 

Not sure what makes the IFL90 a 'gaming' machine. The biometric device seems to directly contradict this assertion. The looks certainly are sophisticated and subdued; perfect for a board room.

Indeed the 140 is a 'modeling' GPU and the 8600m is not, but both can do rather well at it. The GPU alone IMHO doesn't define a notebook as 'gaming' or 'business' class, and even if it did, I'm not convinced having a 'modeling' specific GPU is a requirement for a business machine.

Everything I've read has indicated the frame of the IFL90 to be just as ridged, and in fact the plastics used might be superior to those of the T61. Don't know for sure as I haven't held one yet. But the use of magnesium is a weight savings measure, and is not related to strength.

And just like the magnesium, the carbon fiber is strictly a weight saver. I've had carbon fiber notebooks that flex like wet noodles. Hell my V1Jp is CF and it has slightly more flex than my Dell D830.

IFL90 = 14 x 10.1 x 1.4-1.5 @6.4lbs (w/6 cell)
T61 (15.4") = 14.3 x 10.0 x 1.1-1.3 @5.9lbs (w/ 6 cell)
and for good measure
V1Jp = 14.3 x 10.4 x 1.4 @5.8lbs
G1 = 13.9 x 11.2 x 1.5 @6.8lbs

So yeah the IFL90 is marginally thicker, and a half lb heavier but its also shorter. My personal option is that isn't enough to claim one is 'obviously' more mobile than the other.

I haven't found this to be true. Using tools like Notebook Hardware Control, you can undervolt the GPUs to the point where the power savings of one over the other doesn't exist. If you don't want to use NHC, the tools that come with the nVidia driver really do a great job of this as well. In my experience, this is a logical theory that just hasn't proven to be true.

Not even close. I have a G1, and it just doesn't compare to what I expect from the IFL (again based on what I read; I'll retract this comment if I'm proven wrong when the IFL arrives)

And the keyboard comments are hardly fair. Key feel is such a personal thing; I personally prefer the feel of my D620's keyboard to my Thinkpad. But again, no way would I claim one is better than another... its just too user specific.

I've got the IFL on order. When it comes in, I plan to put it on my desk, right next to my D620, D820, G1, V1Jp, MBP... only then will I feel comfortable stating a recommendation one way or another. But based on my research, I felt quite comfortable choosing the IFL over the T61 for my business purposes, especially when considering the proported battery life issues the T61 may have; I fully expect to get over 4 hours with the 9cell in the IFL.

FWIW

 

thanks for the replies.
and yes, this is the last comparison thread, there won't be a t61 vs the world, I already stated my needs and situation quite thoroughly so I don't see what the confusion is, but I'll post up the questionnaire to make it easier for some.

General Questions

1) What is your budget?
max $1600

2) What size notebook would you prefer?

b. Thin and Light; 13" - 14" screen
c. Mainstream; 15" - 16" screen


3) Please select your country's flag as a post icon and tell us what country are you buying this in.

USA

4) Are there any brands that you prefer or any you really don't like?

Compal, Lenovo Thinkpad preferred.

5) What tasks will you be performing with the notebook?

watching media, typing papers, web surfing, encoding videos, occasional gaming here and there, but mostly the first two.

6) Will you be taking the notebook with you to different places or leaving it on your desk?

will bring it to school everyday where it will stay in one place, then bring it home where it will stay in one place.

7) Will you be playing games on it; if so, which games?

nothing new, mostly games from 2005 era and older/weaker

8) How many hours of battery life do you need?

at least 3

9) Do you mind buying online without seeing the notebook in person?

i don't mind at all

10) What OS do you prefer? Windows (XP or Vista), Mac OS, Linux, etc.

XP or Vista

Screen Specifics

11) Would you prefer standard or widescreen?

indifferent

12) From the choices below, what screen resolutions would you prefer?

wxga+ and higher, the reason why I chose these two


13) Do you want a glossy/reflective screen or a matte/non-glossy screen?

viewing angles are more important than matte/glossy

Build Quality and Design

14) Are the notebook's looks and stylishness important to you?

somewhat, but the Thinkpad and IFL90 kind of have similar styling anyways

15) When are you buying this laptop and how long do you want this laptop to last?

2 years, maybe 3 tops

Notebook Components

16) How much hard drive space do you want; 40GB to 200GB?

flexible in order to get it under a certain cost, I already have an external

17) Do you need an optical drive? If yes, a DVD-ROM, DVD-CD/RW or DVD-RW drive?
yes

I guess the question should be.. should I get a big multi role laptop like the IFL90 to act as my primary computer and tv..
or get the smaller (14.1") Thinkpad simply for travelling purposes, secondary gaming, and focus on a desktop later?

 

That's precisely the question that made me change my mind. I started looking at the T61 in early May but at that time I was still in the mindset that I would continue having a desktop computer around. Then I asked my wife how often she used the desktop computer. She does not use it much and I use it only for gaming. I started looking into prices and the pros and cons of keeping the desktop computer around just for gaming. I decided I'd rather have a laptop that can do decent gaming rather than maintain both a laptop and a desktop computer. After I made that decision, the T61 became much less appealing and the IFL90 much more.

Before someone points this out: yes, I know that "decent gaming" can mean anything.

 

"I guess the question should be.. should I get a big multi role laptop like the IFL90 to act as my primary computer and tv..or get the smaller (14.1") Thinkpad simply for travelling purposes, secondary gaming, and focus on a desktop later?"

Only you can answer this for you. Honestly, the IFL90 is more in a laptop than I need but I was seduced by the power and quality I get for the money. I think you could get this and a nice port replicator and do without investing in a desktop.

 

Jeez, how many laptops do you have?

 

I'm a college student who does a lot of programming and I see myself as being in the same boat as you, being that the IFL90 (more specifically the Sager NP2090) and the T61 are my primary laptop candidates.

I actually had ordered a T61 back in the good ol' Meyer EPP days but I decided to cancel the order when all the fuss started getting to me. After hearing about the IFL90 I got more and more intrigued, and after seeing the price for the Sager NP2090 I figure I'm sold. I plan on placing my order later in the day unless I have a change of heart or decide that I want to wait for some reviews. The only reason I don't want to wait for reviews is because I figure I'm going to be put in a queue anyway so if the laptop ends up being a bust I'll be able to hear about it before the product is shipped.

Plus I want to be able to work in the sun before it's gone.

-------------------EDIT--------------------

After thinking about it I decided to place an oder for the Sager NP2090. Yee haw.

 

The way I see it comes down to a few things.

You say you don't expect to play anything too graphic intensive, 2005. But this would mean that you do play games and are expecting to play different, possibly newer, games in the future and you'd like to be ready for them should they come out. This would point to the compal.

From the FAQ you said "watching media, typing papers, web surfing, encoding videos, occasional gaming here and there, but mostly the first two.", I don't really see that as thinkpad driven work. And most, if not all applications done with the quadro can be done on the 8600.

Yeah, the thinkpad's build is probably going to be better than the compal's if history is any indicator. But taht doesn't mean the compal is a bad laptop. It just doesn't meet the freakishly high standard IBM set for itself.

I think you'd be fine with the compal. I think you might be like me, you want every spec to be just right so that you'd never have any regrets about it. But if you are like me you are going to have regrets regardless of what you get, so just do what i have to do when I buy something. Tell yourself to shut up, because while it may not do "thing A" the best as it can be done, it'll still do it pretty good.

 

Indeed, the Quadro NVS 140M is NOT a modeling GPU, it’s true business GPU, not that you are supposed to know the difference. Do some research about that. I explained the difference here in case you are interested: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?p=1597704#post1597704

Every notebook that has a powerful GPU can be called a "gaming" notebook; basically the GPU is quite an important part and why not.

Otherwise, these is something like industry standard for business and consumer class notebook, Business ones are designed to last and usually have magnesium alloy/carbon fibre chassis, HDD shock absorber, steel hinges, spill-free keyboard, ultra bay, and other security features like security chip..etc., good battery life. Consumer notebooks are usually made from plastic, and have more multimedia oriented features. There are exceptions as usually.

The ThinkPad is pretty much the definition of the business class notebook, then Dell Latitude, HP Compaqs and so on...

The Compals are somewhere in between consumer and business class notebooks.

Carbon fiber reinforced plastic is extremely strong and light material with basically unsurpassed strength/weight ratio and it’s quite expensive but how strong it is depends on the percentage in the composite… and it could even be stronger than magnesium, aluminum and other alloys consideing what it is used for, in case you want to read about that...

The magnesium alloy is also strong and light material a bit cheaper and it IS related to strength unless you claim that the pure plastic is stronger than it…

So, unless you want a notebook made from steel you just don’t have another choice, these are the strongest materials that the high-end notebooks are made from nowadays.

Now, if your beloved IFL90 happed to be made from just ABS plastic, then no it won’t be even close in terms of durability but still will be durable enough. Guess, we will find out soon.

When you use the word "fact", then at least give us these facts. What is this plastic that is superior to CFRP, I really wanna know...

If you weren't so busy to act like a Compal fan boy, you would see that he’s talking about the 14.1” version of the T61. Not to mention that the 15.4” T61 is not even available with dedicated GPU yet.

I strongly believe that 14.1” notebooks are OBVIOSLY more portable than the 15.4” notebooks.

 

I appreciate that; I should not have used the word to define the chip. However, I will say we consider it as such as we successfully have used its predecessor, the 110m for a couple years now when needing to CAD model in the field. Works like a champ.

No argument. Precisely why I stated that the GPU alone IMHO doesn't define a class of notebook.

*sigh* Strength to weight ratio can be used to define any material. The use of Mg and CFRP as structural materials is a weight to strength ratio decision based on a known strength requirement (oversimplification I know; production factors are probably more important, but not key to this point). As you rightly point out, you could use steel and achieve (equal or) superior strength to that of CRFP and Mg... but its going to weigh considerably more. So my statement of their use in this arena is entirely accurate; they are chosen for weight considerations, not for strength-strain reasons (as again, you point out there are far stronger materials to choose from)

We certainly will! I have no idea what its actually made of; as I said a few times I haven't held one yet.

So do I. I know nothing more than what you know; the speculation I've read here and elsewhere. IMO the speculation is strong enough to give one a try. You may feel differently.

And how bout you quote accurately? What I said was "and in fact the plastics used might be superior." Its a conversational tone...

Never owned a Compal. No idea if I'm going to like it or not. Fanboy? Hardly.

As for the 14.1 I should see he was talking about...

He may very well have been talking about it. But that quote there sure makes it sound like we're comparing 15.4s. It wasn't until after my post he makes a point of spec'ing the 14.1.

No need to flame me. You'll kindly notice I phrased everything as my opinions and my observations. I've owned (and own) a whole host of lappys; its something of a hobby. I only offered my personal opinions based on my experience. No need bash me for doing so.

 

Well since the FZ has a better graphics card than the T61, id say go with compal. But if it was a vote between the T61p (thats the one with the graphics power) vs IFL90 I couldn't even vote man they are both great laptops you couldn't go wrong with either.

 

Well, yes they are chosen for weight considerations but strength is a factor as well. Then again both CRFP and Mg are quite strong materials, aren't they? If it was only weight that mattered, they could have used cardboard cases as well.

Now, what I'm saiyng is that the high-end notebooks usually use CFRP or Mg alloy cases which are obviously stronger and lighter than the typical ABS or similar plastic cases used for cheaper notebooks.

And, if you don't agree with me, then at least tell me what is this plastic that is stronger or at least as strong as CFRP or Mg and is used for making notebooks as well.

No but you seem to have some great expectations about the IFL90 and I don't understand what they are based on.... and I'm not saying that it's bad or anything.

I applogize. It wasn't intentional.. and sorry for going off-topic.

Why not? Disappointed. I'm joking.

First, the NVS 140M (8400GS) is a decent card and it will handle the games from 2005 era with no problems, other than that you said that you aren't into gaming that much, so you will be fine with that card.

Second, you will bring it to school everyday, as I noted before 14.1" are much more portable so another point for the T61.

Well, that's up to you.

 

Well, the OP was in fact talking about the 14" here:

In any event, I actually think you (the OP) would do better with the Compal.

No matter how much people try to argue otherwise, it's pretty much accepted and true that the T61, being the epitome of a "business laptop", would be much better built and durable than the Compal. Also, as others have listed above, the T61 has a ton of real security features (as opposed to the fingerprint reader on the Compal, which arguably is just for convenience - the T61 has one too btw). It's designed for mobility, durability, security, and one thing no one's really mentioned - a professional image. There's a definite professional, if slightly conservative, impression you give when you walk into a meeting with a Thinkpad instead of your run-of-the-mill Latitude or Compal (which most people wouldn't have even heard of).

However, it appears that most of these advantages and features wouldn't mean as much to you. Although you don't say specifically, I get the feeling that you're not in need of any particular business-specific feature, and what you're looking for is more just a multi-purpose laptop for all your day-to-day tasks. That fits the description of the Compal IFL90 rather well.

My reasoning is this: if you have no need of the extra features of the T61, then paying for them (and they ARE included in the price) is just a bit of a luxury (a very useful one, but arguably still a luxury). On the other hand, if you ever would like to play games even beyond the 2005-era, having a consumer GPU designed for gaming would be a nice investment just in case.

 

good advice taelrak, i'm in a similar situation also.. I've been looking at the new macbook pro, T61, Asus G1-S1 and the Compal IFL90 (PowerPro J 10:15 FORCE to be exact)...I would have ordered a thinkpad but with the delays, and the "offcenter screen issues"..i think about just ordering the Compal IFL90 and have a few quetions that may be helpfull to others also

this is what i configured --
PowerPro J 10:15 FORCE - $1,994.00
15.4" WSXGA+ (1680 x 1050) LCD w/PCI-e nVIDIA GeForce 8600 GT w/512MB (Shipping Mid-July)
Intel® Core™2 Duo T7700 2.4GHz Processor w/4MB L2 On-die cache - 800MHz FSB

1) how does the build quality of the Compal compare to thinkpads and asus? screen, keyboard, etc.

2)How durrable are they? would i be able to ride my bike every day to school with it and toss it in my backpack like i do with my thinkpad?

3)How is the noise level (my thinkpad is absolutely silent)?

4)my thinkpad's screen is not very bright, and i'm wondering how the screen quality of the compal compares...( I'm leaning towards the matte 1680x1050)

5) also is the Sager NP2090 and powerPro 10:15 the exact same notebook .. no difference at all? ( http://www.powernotebooks.com/category.php?catId=78#id1899)


I currently own a T42 thinkpad, its 2 years old, I like everything about it besides the screen not being bright enough for me (and its outdated)... I am primarily using it for programming, bringing it to school, work, not gamming so much (very occasionly) ..

 

First read this article about ODM(original design manufacturers) like Compal ,Clevo, Asus who actually manufacture/design laptops vs OEMs like Sager/Dell/HP/other big boys who add the components(CPU/HDD/ram ect)

1. The Compal IFL90/Sager NP 2090 isnt a business laptop so Thinkpad, Asus business line(w/v series) or any other companies business line of laptops should be better built then the IFL90/NP 2090 becuase business line laptops have magnesium-alloy chassis, shock mounted hard drive and other features to make it more durable but Compal in general makes quality laptops(look at the Hel80) to should meet or exceed the build quality of other consumer line laptops from Dell/HP ect but we wont know for sure untill we get more/more comprensive review of it. As for the keyboard i have no idea(the people who have the IFL90/Np2090 might comment on it.

2. I have no idea how durable it is but make sure you get a notebook sleeve for it(even if you have a notebook backpack)

3. IFl90/Np2090 will probably be noisier since its has a more powerful GPU but its a personal opinion and it depends on usage. Probably want to ask a member who has the laptop.

4. No idea but the Samsung screen with prism tech used in the Matte WSXGA+ is suppose to be really good.

5. They are the same exact thing except for the warranty options and starting config.

Also since your are not going to game that much and depending on what games you want to play(and at what level of settings) a business laptop might be a better choice even though the graphic card will be less powerful the the 8600m GT in gaming.

Fill out the FAQ and post it in "What notebook should I buy" section of the forum if you havent already dont so.