Problems? See this thread at archive.org.
I use my CF-29 mostly in vehicles and boats. Can anyone reccommend a 12 vdc charger that will plug into a cigarette lighter type recepticle?
Also can anyone tell me if it's ok to "hot swap" the battery with the charger (AC or DC) plugged in?
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I JUST picked up one of these locally for $5 with a broken end on the output cable; it is TOTALLY bada$$.
http://www.techexcess.net/kensingto...l-ac-car-air-adapter-power-supply-k33069.aspx
Not only does it function as a car AND air power adapter/inverter, but change the input cord and its ALSO an AC adaptor. It IS a universal model, so the cords are modular; the ends are a bit large, but they are set up at right angle to the cord which is nice. If you NEED to make it permanent, the connector ends are made of hard plastic, so a little superglue would keep them nicely held together. (I plan to keep it swappable, since this thing has ends to fit almost ANYTHING). The ends incorporate a resistor to set the output voltage; I noted that connector 12 (Sony) appears identical to connector 11 (Panasonic) but connector 12 output is 19.8V, while connector 11 output is 16.7V.
This thing comes in a really COOL clearcoat/metallic charcoal grey case that's about the size of the original Panasonic AC adapter; plus the power LED is ice blue. SCHWEET! It REALLY matches the metallic silver & black of the CF Series ToughBooks. And one more thing; if you look at my pic of the repaired output cable, you will see that approx 12" from the output end is an auxiliary power port which operates at tip regulated voltage for charging other devices.
As for "Hot swapping" the battery, I've NEVER had a llaptop injured by doing so; I've hotswapped batteries in HP,Sony,Acer,Fujitsu,Asus,IBM,Toshiba,NEC,Dell & my new Toughbook with no issues whatsoever; in fact, Windoze will tell you to "swap batteries to keep from losing your work" when battery level reaches LOW or CRITICAL levels. This suggests to me that "hot-swapping" batteries is supposed to be considered "normal use".:yes:
mnem
*Geek-ily*:GEEK:Attached Files:
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You talking about my post or Glen's post?
mnem
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TB -
I JUST TODAY got this unit working; the business end had apparently been chewed off by some rodent (tiny teethmarks), but it DOES look promising. It works well on my TB; I've charged both my batteries with it & am now installing XP. :GEEK:
The tip has a shoulder on it so it does snap into the power jack with solid detent action like you want; but the end IS modular, so some of you may not like that. The cable end connection is medium firm friction fit; tight enough to not fall off, but if you trip over the cord it would definitely unplug there rather than ripping the end out of the jack. (To me, this is a plus; but some would say it's just something more to lose). This end is MADE FOR the TB Series & the whole thing is by Kensington; they're a reputable premium brand I've always had good luck with.:yes:
As you can see in the last photo the end is a bit on the bulky side, but the cable end seems reasonably heavy duty. Obviously a new one wouldn't have heat shrink on the end like mine; this is my repair. If I like this unit overall I'll prolly buy one of the ones in that link to keep with my TB & just use this one on my workbench. (Did I mention it has ends to fit like EVERYTHING?):laugh:
mnem
Windoze Setup... wasting your life 30-60 minutes at a time.
Attached Files:
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tb4-
Naaah; the difference between 75W & 90W is negligible; & if the guys at Kensington recommend it for the TB, then they've tested it & know it'll work. I've been "Refresh Cycling" my batteries for about 30 hours straight with mine & it gets just warm enough to feel it; I expect a little more heat if running DC/DC, but not a lot.
Actually, I think I'll run it overnight hooked to my bench supply to see what it does DC/DC...
mnem
Why do we exist? The universe needed someone whh could get the joke...
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LOL... Well, it's no great deal. Yes, I'm using the BIOS "Refresh Utility", but not for its intended purpose, which is to "relearn" the actual charge/discharge curve of the battery so it reports correctly to Windows & doesn't shut down for low charge when in fact it may have much more time left in it. Anyone who's had a laptop run for hours on a battery that Windoze sez it's at 0% knows what I mean.:rolleyes2:
Manufacturers of rechargeable batteries of all sorts have this dirty little secret about their "High-Capacity" batteries. Part of the way they get those high capacities is by using them - cycling the cells many times before they're through production. A new battery will have a relatively high internal resistance; in terms of number of charge/discharge cycles the battery has in it, this is a good thing. But in terms of rated Amp/Hour capacity, this is not so good.
You see, a rechargeable battery does not have it's greatest energy density when it's first manufactured, but rather after it's been charged/discharged many times. Depending on the cell, this may not happen until it's used up as much as 10%-45% of the charge/discharge cycles it has in it. So, in order to sell you batteries of ever-higher amp/hour capacity, they artificially age the cells by charging & discharging them at just below their absolute maximum current rates to break down their internal resistance & bring them to that peak of energy density sooner.
Once upon a time, the only people who cared about rechargeable batteries (aside from the one used to start their car) were people in industrial situations; they spent a lot of money on a battery pile for whatever device they had, so their most important concern was to get as many charge/discharge cycles out of that pile as possible, & the batteries were installed indeed fresh & just as manufactured. A pile was designed to provide more than the capacity needed, so that in it's early life & as it neared it's end-of-life, it would still provide more than adequate amp/hour capacity.
Nowadays things have changed; EVERYTHING runs on rechargeable batteries, & the pressure is to pack as much energy density into as little space & weight as possible. This is done at the cost of ultimate life expectancy of the battery pile. A sub-C cell that was once rated at 1.2 Amp/Hours could have a useful life of 700-900 charge/discharge cycles. It gets a little tweaking in it's chemistry to handle some heat, then they load cycle it to get 1.8 Amp/Hours out of it; now it's only good for 400-500 charge/discharge cycles. Some of the newer NIMH batteries I'm seeing are only rated at 250 charge/discharge cycles.:GEEK:
I know about this stuff because I used to race RC Cars on circuit; we spent a lot of time doing exactly that to make our racing packs have as much energy density as possible. Some of us also went as far as building charging rigs to plot the discharge curves of individual cells, then matching them to build packs with cells that would all dump at the same time; this was usually more at the corporate sponsored level, though I personally dabbled in it for a while until I got to a point where it interfered with actual enjoyment of the sport.:twitcy:
Anyhow; this still doesn't tell you why I'm charge cycling my batteries NOW. The reason is simple; These batteries ARE old; they are at their end-of-life. However, they also have not been used in months. One of the worst things you can do to ANY rechargeable battery is NOT USE IT. Whether that means letting it sit on a shelf for months, or keeping it plugged in all the time so it never discharges, the anode & cathode plates will develop phosphating (or whatever electrolyte salt is appropriate to the chemistry) which interferes with getting all the capacity which remains out of it. I've found that by performing a constant charge/discharge cycle repeated many times, you can at least get an old battery to give you all it's got again. Rare occasions I've seen a battery that SHOULD provide 4 hours of power restored to half capacity; but usually all you'll get is a battery that started out giving you 30 minutes will give you 50-70. Doing this gets the batteries pretty warm, and it gets the electrolyte to flow a bit & carry away some of those impurities. This is the process which battery sellers who list "reconditioned" batteries get a battery which performs well enough to sell as "Not DOA"; but the process really should only be used as a stopgap measure to prevent having to spend large dollars on the new battery you really need.
Now, as for those companies who offer to "rebuild with new cells" using your old pack; IF THEY REALLY DO rebuild the pack, you can get a battery with greater capacity than the original & just as reliable. As a teen I used to make a good bit of side money on construction sites rebuilding battery packs for cordless tools. I bought cells by the gross from a number of suppliers; rebuild a dying Makita pack that cost $45 dollars new for $25 using cells that cost $7 plus a bit of silicone sealant seemed like a good way to kill an hour.:wink:
mnem
I got yer 24-channel NiCd cell-cycling rig RIGHT HERE!!! -
Wow! i drank a whole J&C on that one!
My dad used to do what you talked about... Detailing each battery and charging/discharging each on a curve. Then he couldmatch his sets. He could get the most out of his batteries too.
So... Basically... You are breathing new life into the battery at the expense of its life. I guess that is always the way it is when you charge a battery, eh?
GREAT post by the way! Rep added for you!
EDIT - I'll have to get back to you.... It says "I have to spread it around first!" -
Well, what I'm doing is not really at the expense of the battery's life... it's pretty much already at end-of-life and I know it; what I am doing is helping a battery that's been abused by disuse give me all it's got left to give until it goes completely tits up. If I just left it alone it would trickle off from the 30 minute capacity it had when I got it down to 20, then 10, then totally duff. Now at least I MIGHT get 50 to 100 cycles at around an hour (not great, but still useable) before it tanks.
The battery manufacturers are the ones who are ultimately making that tradeoff for us, before we ever even get our hands on them.:confused2:
Thanks for the compliment!
mnem
There's the right way, there's the wrong way, & then there's MY WAY... -
Pappy -
That looks like a really good deal for your application, as you'll probably leave it in your boat. I still kindof like the Kensington unit better for the ability to throw one brick in my bag & be able to power my laptop anywhere in the world...
DANG! I just missed one that sold on eBay for $11!!!
mnem <~~~ Grrrrrs at his son as he realizes he still has the uncompleted snipe for that auction open in another tab* -
Grav-
I sure did, even tho I had to fix it!
This thing simply does what it says it will; it works perfectly in my car and at home; it's so easy to convert from AC to DC usage; & it even works on my portable 12V jumpstart / power pack for about 8 hours. I have no idea what the capacity on that brute is; it doesn't say on the outside & it is about 2 years old so probably doesn't give full capacity.
mnem
I HAVE THE POWER!!!
12 Volt DC charger for CF-29
Discussion in 'Panasonic' started by pappy42, Feb 2, 2008.
