Adding Aftermarket Internal GPS to the CF-28

I think we ought to start with one of the eval boards that Cadillac suggested. It gives us a protected platform, it's available, it's inexpensive, it's available, it's pretty much made for our application, it's available.... See my point. He also suggested moving on to a better GPS engine. One with a newer chipset and without the useless antenna.

Just a thought.

 

I think Modly was planing along the same lines as I am in using the pad layout for the EM406 and 408 modules, so if that works out it would be sticking to the same plan.
cheers
EDIT if the forum had a mudometer I'd be well into the brown by now I meant the ET-312 SiRF III module:
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8268
I was looking at the pad layout on the USB evaluation board.

 

I am all for any other GPS module to use, provided it is fairly easy to wire in.

However I think using the eval boards might be a step backwards from progress. I think a good key element to a good GPS setup is that it looks like it was professionally done and that it should have been there, and using an eval board we'd have to splice into the ribbon cable (Which I had originally planned to do before we got the boards running).

However I do see that there is a need for a solution in the duration while a board is developed.

The big negative on progress though, is I had a good rough board layout done last night with the 50pin connector, GPS, resistors (not proper value, but spots for them), grounding the 37, etc. Still needs plenty of work though.. But my G5 was my only box with SATA support, and my new one won't be here til after the new year.

I guess I can start working on another board though on my toughbook. It'll be a lot easier now that I know how to use Eagle a bit better.

 

Well... Should I keep these SMD 50 pin connectors then? If you guys are going ahead with the board development we'd need them, right?

I am all for a plug and play solution. I'd prefer to keep it looking exactly like the stock daughterboard. If all I have to do is solder 5 pins and pop it in... I'm done! BUT... I need something to play around with. Plus... With the eval board we could try to do something a little extra... Like adding another 2 USB ports on the side of the laptop. Though I'm not sure if they'd be waterproof. I'll have to check to see if they make them.

Anyway... it would be fun to poke around with and see what I could end up with. (Hopefully not a fried motherboard!)

 

Ha, yeah, one fried board is enough At least I can poke it and handle it rough now and not care.

I think you should keep the 50-pin connectors. We'll get to use them before too long.

 

I liked the ET-333 when we started this but bought the EM-408 in the interest of the group, thinking if we where all working with the same components one of us was bound to get lucky and the others could fallow to confirm.
That said we now know we can make the 408 module work with the RIM daughter board and get good performance from this combination.

Now there are some that would like to take this to the next step by installing these in computers or offering them in some form of kit for resale and I think this would be a great service for those that can not do it for them selves but would like the benefits of a working internal GPS.

So I still think from all the currently available module’s or engine boards the ET-333 is a good choice with the ET-332 not far behind and if I where going to go through the trouble of making a board or use an available Eval board I would look real hard at these.
http://www.usglobalsat.com/p-49-et-332-sirf-iii.aspx

http://www.usglobalsat.com/p-48-et-333-sirf-iii.aspx

If I where going to make my own board I would certainly look at the new modules coming out at the first of the year with the newer chip set and make sure I could plop one of these bad boys on without reinventing the wheel even if I planed on using the older one for now.
http://www.globalsat.com.tw/eng/product_029_00001.htm

The 408 served us well and is still is a good choice for all the reasons we used in the first place but with its narrow voltage requirements useless antenna and lack of battery backup I would not consider it your best choice for what we are talking about now.

How’s this for mud Stan.

Jim

 

Is the built-in antenna totally useless? If we could mount it in a similar fashion to the stock CF28 GPS antenna would it still not pull in a decent signal? That's where I would like to go with mine, that way I can have an internal antenna and provisions for an external one as well.. I want to see if the plastic "bump" that is used with the stock setup is available at a decent price from heartlands, and then figure out if the whole 408 unit can be shoved in there (doesn't look like it), and if not can the patch antenna be desoldered and attached to a short pigtail. Does anyone have a junk 408 I can try this on? I don't want to ruin mine without having somewhat of a plan of how to go about this!

 

A junk 408? <laughing uncontrollably> I don't think the bump would be anywhere near big enough for the 408. BUT... I think a patch antenna would fit. I wonder if the stock antenna would aork well with the 408? It would be worth a try.

Cadillac... I like the et-333... It's a GPS and board in one! AND it is less than what we have been paying for the 408!

 

Gravitar.
You would be better off getting one of the little antennas that Rick is using for $18.00 and jamming it in the hump IMHO.
Another option would be to remove the module from an old BU-353 same thing as a 406 module and fit it in the hump. A little smaller than the 408 and would be easer the jam in there.
Jim

 

Lol, that mud looks transparent to me Caddy.
Now I can't resist getting it looking guinness colored again
Most of the modules above are using the sirf III chip so they should all be similar in reception and communications.
Most of them are also tiny things that would look very tidy with a good support and cable, possibly even better than the standard panasonic setup.
As for a board, there will be (no a political type 'will' but a real one) a board design from either Modly or myself within the next few of weeks. We are both up to speed with the design software but have not yet made any fixed plans on which module or where to mount the usb rocket launcher.
If anyone would like a pcb layout to get a very simple board etched with pads to mount a ribbon cable socket and holes to wire a module to then either of us should be able to get something out quickly.
However, 0.5mm pitch PCB's are not cheap to get etched and IMHO it would be better to decide exactly what is wanted on a board, including mounting points for what may be wanted later, and get a batch of fully featured boards made up.

Hmm.. not muddy looking yet. Why does the antenna your using have power leads? Active antennas normally get their power from the coaxial, the center pin is at 5v and the shielding at earth. Doesn't effect the signal as its an AC kind of signal and the DC just moves it up a bit. With the metal case and the short lead it 'should' make no difference at all to the signal strength over a normal antenna. At least that's what I read on the net (and everything is always true there...).
cheers

 

Since i scored another cf-28 with builtin gps and you guys right! this thing is useless but the antena mounting, I think i can retrofit it with the available patch antena on the market today. Let see the diff.

 

Stan, you seem to have pretty good luck finding some weird stuff... I hope you can find a cable we can use to prevent having to use the .5mm pitch connector

I got pretty good at soldering DB connectors with the megasquirt, and once you tack it in place with one or two joints, the rest can be done in a a couple of minutes. That'd be an ideal size

The ideal would be something that I can solder 10 boards together in an hour.

Something we could do, is provide a spot for multiple GPS module headers. That way we can let the guy working on it choose which he wants to use, and which header to solder on. We just need the pin spacing.
However I'd like to limit it to 5 header mounts, just for routing ease... You'll fry my mind otherwise

Also, I'm still interested in providing an FM transmitter board built in, but that'll be saved for a second revision because of how much of an immediate need for the GPS board we have.

So pop me a list of GPS modules we would like to use, and if possible the header info (or a link to the module so I can look it up). I'll see what I can do this long weekend now that my tower is back in operation.

Oh, and please.. get me this info by Monday night. I want something to keep me occupied all Christmas day, so that I can honestly tell my Aunt that I'm too busy to come over. PLEASE.

Edit; Next paycheck I'll order up a patch antenna to use in my one and only stock GPS lump, to attach to my 408. We'll see what kind of signal we get.

 

As great a circuit as i'm sure it is, i'm sure some percentage of them do fail!

 

I guess they would have to. I would imagine though that it would be the RIM or CDPD module that would fail first.

I can't believe they don't come up on ebay more often. I've seen like 2 in the last 3 months.

 

Here's a comparison shot of the difference of the antennas I have. The one on the left is the one from Jim Gray. (Antenna A) The one on the right is the one from GPS Online. (Antenna B) The one on the right also comes with a test board shown. You can see that they are both very similar. Antenna A is smaller and has the removable cover. Antenna B is about 20%-25% larger in diameter and you can see that the PC Board is actually cast into the plastic top so it cannot be removed. I'm not sure that this is an issue. I have not done testing yet to see if Antenna B has the same strong signal that Antenna A gives. I will post back when that is done.

​

 

Awesome news Rick!

I was shocked too after I started searching for RIM modules... I thought there were tons of them out there.

I do kinda hope that new antenna is just as strong, though it's bulkier size might be a slight pain to fit it in where we need it.

 

why don't you try this, I tried, but they don't ship to canada! This is the orig. pcb board. http://bumblebeestoves.com/132/132131321.html and if you guys there can, i ask for two pcs for me. PLs.

 

Trying to figger out why a Stove & Appliance store would have a Laptop PCB board... lol

 

Its funny, Hah! I don't know too. lol. But if you click the BUY It Now button it will give a link to partstore.com.Maybe they are partner in business

 

LOL... I saw that one too. There ARE parts out there with the same part numbers as others. I clicked on it and wasn't watching where it was taking me. I was about to "Add To Cart" when I realized I was at a stove website! I already have all the parts to a stove... It's in my kitchen!

Too funny... I wondered if anyone else saw that too.

 

Yup, I noticed, and I noticed it took me to partstore, which did list as having the board in stock a few weeks ago as well.

 

Is there somebody call partstore.com to their toll free no. to verify if its really a panasonic toughbook parts, its clearly specify "pcb board" on their website.

 

If you dig a little deeper into the partstore site you can search for laptop parts by brand and model Number. If you look closely at the search area it tells you to enter in as much of the model Number as you know. I put n CF28P and it gave me the choice of CF28PTJAZQM, CF28PBJAACM and/or a few other common CF28 model designations. I then went to the model number list and picked one out with a GPS board and it seems as though a part number very similar to the one Toughbook posted was in the list. The list said the had 667 parts available ranging from capacitors for $1.95 to displays at about $1175. My guess is that they really sell laptop parts. Consequently, does anyone know off hand what the part number for a hard drive caddy assembly for the 28's is?

 

Call heartland... They sell the complete NEW hard drive caddy for the CF-28 for $93... Less than you can find on ebay!

 

Okay... The news is in. I compared both antennas. Jim Gray's antenna is definitely better, as you would imagine. While outside both antennas pulled in a similar amount of satellites... The JG antenna received a much better signal. This became more evident when I brought the Toughbook back inside. On my kitchen island a few satellites dropped off. When I went downstairs into my shop... There were only 4 satellites and that quickly dwindled down to just 2... Then none. Then I couldn't pick up anything. Not surprising since the GPS Online antenna is a copy of the Sarantel Geo Helix that Jim Gray sells.

My assessment? Pay the extra for the Jim Gray antenna. If your life depends on it (or your directions)... You want to make sure you have no issues holding you back. The GPS Online antenna / EM408 is still miles ahead of the stock Panasonic and would work fine in most applications, I would still pay the extra $13 for the Jim Gray antenna. I think the GPS Online antenna is roughly similar to what the other guy on ebay uses with his 12 channel system judging from what I've seen of his results.

I'll stick with Jim Gray.

 

So we are recommending the JG with an mmcx connector, correct? and what length, and what type of wire? These are the 3 questions I saw on their site that they ask.

Thanks in advance for all your work!

 

You want o make sure that you get a MMCX right angle (Cisco) type connector. This is a male fitting thought it may not say that on the website where you order. You want at least 27" worth of cable to make sure you have enough to route the wire for the antenna. I can't remember the exact name of the cable but I have used three different types and they all worked well. I've also spliced the cable on a couple of them. If you solder correctly and carefully you experience very little loss if any. Someone in the thread posted the type of cable a page or two back I think.

I will post a tutorial for mounting the GPS and wifi antennas. I'll combine the thread since they are so similarly mounted and routed.

 

does anybody have an extra jim grey antenna they can sell me? I have tryied to send him my credit card info three times to jim grey and i have talked to jim and he says that it the problem with processing my order is on my end. Since he dosent take paypal i am stuck, If sombody can spare one PM me and let me know.

 

The best I can do is to get one for you the next time I order. I need my last two.

Have you tried calling your CC company?

 

no problem at all I have a garmin antenna that i am using now but i want to put it out on the rim. If you want you can email me and i can send you whatever you need $$ when you ned it.

thanks

 

Does anyone speak hangul. I used to speak a little when i was stationed in Korea. This is a kit I found on EBAY. It is for an external pane mount antenna for GPS:
http://ebay.auction.co.kr/detail.html?itemNo=130159076299&FeedBackPercent=99.9

Updated:
If you just purchased a used Panasonic CF-28 with factory internal GPS you may have discovered that the GPS performance is lackluster and very unreliable to the point where it is practically useless. The CF-28 actually has a great GPS engine but the problem is that Panasonic made a big mistake in the placement of the GPS antenna. The current antenna and it's location on the laptop is a very poor design and the unit will not work and may remain in a NO FIX condition for very long periods of time. This is unacceptable if you intend on using the CF-28 for GPS tracking/routing in a moving vehicle and require precise positioning. The kit being offered here includes all the parts necessary to scrap the side mounted antenna and install an SMA jack for connecting the included external Trimble magnetic mount antenna outside of the vehicle where it gets an unobstructed view of the sky. The screen shot below is indicative of what you may see before installing this upgrade. And the second screenshot is what you can expect after. As you can see you will get the maximum number of channels and at a very high signal level. In order to maintain a good 3d fix the GPS must see an average of 4 satellites with constantly good signal levels. I will let the pictures speak for themselves. This kit includes the pigtail with SMA connector for the antenna and a special H.FL hirose connector for connecting to the GPS engine. This upgrade is very straight forward but as always please refer the task to a qualified technician if you are not comfortable installing yourself. Please understand that this kit can only be installed on factory GPS equipped CF-28's this is an enhancement only and does not add GPS if it is not already equipped. It is recommended that you properly mount the CF-28 on a suitable permanently

 

are you sure that isn't a US seller? i remember that description from a few months ago

 

it could be upon the google services the location was Salt Lake City, UT
I tried

 

Gravitar,
How many mini pci slots doe the CF-28 have? Do you happen to know?
Thanks

 

two mini pci slots. one can take a big card, the other one has to be a small card

 

The kit is WAY overpriced! Don't buy it. All you need is a MMCX to SMA bulkhead connector. Available on ebay or the web for about $15 - $20 MAX!

Um... I hate to burst your bubble but the stock Panasonic GPS engine is crapola! I don't care what pictures the guy posted. We've "been there, done that" already with no results to show for it. Now... The good news is that you have the existing daughterboard that your GPS is mounted to. So... You can swap in the GPS we've been using as well as the antenna. All can be had and installed for under $100. For that you get a pretty much bullet-proof GPS that will get a signal anywhere... Versus the Panny GPS that has to be within eyesight of the satellites! (Either that or you can wait while we experiment with other engines... Trying to get the same or better performance with a setup that is better for less money!)

I didn't mean to burst your bubble but we speak the plain truth around here. The last thing we'd want you to do is to spend good money on bad project.

<stepping down from soapbox>

 

This listing was by cybertools - he is a US seller from UT - he is the one that has the red ones with external GPS antenna - he has listed this same kit on US ebay for the same high price - I got a lot of ten trimble gps antenna's and some pigtails for less than what he wanted -

 

Thing is, if you add the word GPS to your auction, people will pay insane amounts of cash to get it.

I'm guessing that he's able to buy some of those side pieces from Heartland or something, because he sure has alot of those to spare...

 

But he's not using the bump out on his laptops. He either uses an LCD mount or an interior mount. The funny thing is... When he sells the one without the LCD mount... He makes fun of others (and himself presumably) with the LCD mount because they could break. I thought it was funny. Yeah... He sells a $12 MMCX to SMA bulkhead connector, marks up to $45 and calls it a GPS somethingorother...

 

I just got a DigiKey catelogue in the mail. The thing weighs 5 pounds and is over 4 inches thick! I believe if anyone wants one they just have to go to the website and request one. I would imagine they must spend tens of thousands of dollars mailing these out.

 

Well.... Good news for a change! The 10 ribbon cables just arrived from Farnell. They are a spot on match! The only thing is that they are about 2 1/2 times as long as the stock ribbon cable... So I just got two for the price of one!

So... I'll be playing around with that at some point in the next week or so!

 

Do NOT order the GPS antennas from GPS Online! They are JUNK! They don't get a good signal and the one I just installed has already crapped out. I put on one of the Jim Gray antennas and, BAM... Pegged ALL the satellites! IT's worth the extra $18 to get a good antenna!

 

Ok, so I have the 408 module, will be ordering the Jim Gray (waiting for his reply), what else do I need again.. the daughterboard and cable? If so, I might need some help here. I have ZERO soldering skills and am looking for the low-tech solution. Anyone have a daughterboard and cable they are willing to sell? Or do I need something else?

 

Doobi... For $20 I can solder up a 30" lead for you. One end would be a right angle MMCX connection and the other would be a soldered lead that you can solder onto the antenna. Or... I guess I need to order more antennas from JIm Gray too... Since I do... I could solder up the whole thing and ship it for $55... Sound fair? Beats the $85 he was quoting for everyone else!

Lemme know...

 

That sounds perfect! The next step would be connecting the module to the 28, correct? And that is done through the daughterboard and another cable? Im a little confused on that part. I know someone is working on the tutorial, but Im a little impatient! hehe

 

If you send me your daughterboard I can solder it up for you. I just need the little cable you got with the GPS.

 

In the market for a daughterboard.. the module did not come with a cable except the one attached to it.. Gravitar, was there supposed to be a cable included?

 

You can buy the cables for a buck and a quarter from USGlobalSat.

That is assuming yours didn't come with one.

 

Why not make a list, and put me on it too.

But Seriously,
(Oh wait I was....) Toughbook, Would you consider starting a thread like Gravitar did and taking names? Although some of us don't have the daughterboard yet the module, antenna, and coax are going to be a must. Too bad We can't go directly from gps->(x)#lead ribbon->connector, and mount the whole thing on a breadboard. Anyway give it a little thought, like a lo-fi budget starter kit, as opposed to the $230 real-deal kit you could be whipping up 10 at a whack.

 

Anyone know where I can get the daughterboard needed? Or does someone have a spare to sell?
Modly- do you have the part number for the cable I need?

Thanks all for the help. Im closer than I thought to having GPS.