Brand new CF-27 owner signing-in.

Hi Guys,
Let's get the minor stuff out of the way first.
My name is Steve. I live in the North-West of England and I'm 60 and enjoy messing around with computers. I can Change a desktop hard drive and RAM chip. I can also add software such as an OS on to a blank hard drive but I struggle a little after that, lol
Anyway, I just bought a Panasonic Toughbook CF-27 on eBay for £55. It is a P11 running at 300MHz. It currently has 128 mb of RAM but I have also bought a 256mb RAM chip to max it out at 320mb. The laptop is running Win98SE and has a DVD drive. I have also bought a wireless network pcmcia card which will, hopefully, allow me to connect to the internet via my home router
I haven't actually received any of it yet. It has all been bought on eBay.uk but for the next few days, my wife and I are still on holiday so I won't actually get my hands on the kit until Thursday. This was all sorted out with the sellers before I placed bids.
I realise that this Toughbook may not be high spec enough to take over from my desktop PC, I didn't buy it for that. I intend to use it for web browsing, including playing online poker, and writing text stuff using Open Office. I think it should be good enough for that level of use, (he said, hopefully)

About the only thing I can add to my first post and until I get my hands on my new stuff is to ask if any other CF-27 users on this forum have installed and run later Windows operating systems. I have Win 2K Pro and Win XP Pro that i can install but I don't want to do that if there are no proper drivers for the touch screen.
I'll probably have more to add when I get back home so until then, Take care.
Steve

 

Ooops, I almost forgot.
I will probably need to upgrade the hard drive but I am having difficulty finding any details of what kind of hard drive is used. I'm guessing it will be a 2.5 inch laptop drive but will any old IDE version do or does it need to be some special kind of hard drive?
Cheers,
Steve

 

Welcome, we were discussing this with another new CF-27 user not to long ago, for the specs on your machine, Win 2000 would be about the latest you can go. I have Win xp installed an my CF-27 Mk IV and it works fine. Try to get a 7200 rpm pata harddrive. If you search the forums you can find the make and model that everyone seems to favor.

 

Hi again and thanks for the tip about the PATA drive.

I have a bone fide question now.
I have discovered that my Toughbook CF-27 is a Mk 2 but I don't know if that makes any difference to the pre-installed, non-removeable RAM @ 64mb. That being the case, it seems possible that mine shipped with 128mb of non-removeable RAM.
I say this because I opened her up this morning and stuck a 256 mb RAM stick in the empty slot. It has seated properly and clicked into place. The bad news is that after a few reboots for other things, it still shows as being only 128mb of installed RAM.
Is there something that I need to do to get the TB to recognise the new RAM? Also, I noticed that on first booting after installing the new RAM, there was no screen saying that the RAM had been increased as you would get on a desktop PC. I don't know if this is normal or if it indicates a problem.
Any help would be really appreciated.
Steve

 

OK, I took out the new RAM chip and booted up with the slot empty and device manager shows 128mb of RAM so either I need to do something to make the Toughbook recognise the new chip or the new chip is fried.
Cheers,
Steve

 

First as the computer is booting press F2 to enter the bios and use that instead of the device manager.

If the ram is right for the computer it will recognise it automatically.

You might get the computer to recognise a 256 mb ram chip but these computers can be picky on ram make sure that you are using low denisty ram.

 

Hi Steve, and Welcome!

I'm no CF-27 expert, but with the CF-28 models you have to get memory sticks that use low-density chips. Not anything that physically fits will work, but with Kensington PC-133 low density sticks we can get the CF-28 Mk-2/3 to recognize another 512MB, twice the OEM maximum. CF-28 Mk-1 takes a slower PC-100 type and no reports of success greater than 256MB.

Not sure what speed/type stick works best on CF-27s --- Anyone ???

 

Sorry about these quick-fire posts but I'm posting as I think of stuff.

Is it possible that because this Toughbook CF-27 has 128mb of "Internal" RAM, it will only accept a RAM chip of 128mb making a TOTAL of 256mb?
I read somewhere that the max recognised was 320mb which would be a 64mn internal and 256 external. Nah, that can't be right. Surely you would still be able to add a 256 mb stick even if it went over the 320mb supposed max.

**he said, hopefully**

 

Hi again,
The eBay item number for the 256 RAM chip that I bought was 400084398404
Part of the description says .... (Sorry about the CAPS)

256MB PC100 144-PIN SDRAM SODIMM MEMORY FOR LAPTOPS
DOUBLE SIDE 16 CHIPS LOW DENSITY MODEL

So, to all intents and purposes, it looks like the right kind of RAM stick.
Maybe I should try throwing the whole thing over the roof. lol

 

5teve, as stated before though, just because you DO have the right size and density of RAM doesnt mean it will work. Unfortunately, these TB's are also finicky about the brands. I would try a different stick or brand because also, as you pointed out, that stick you have might work but it might be fried.

 

Hi doob.
This computer lark can get to be costly, huh?
I mean, just imagine the conversation.
Steve ... This RAM chip is perfect but it doesn't work in my Toughbook.
PC repair shop guy .... Toughbooks are like that. Just go and buy another RAM chip.
Steve ... OK.
Steve (one week later) ... I bought a new RAM chip but it doesn't work.
PC guy .... WOW, you're unlucky. Buy another RAM chip.
Steve (8 sticks later) .... YAY, this one works. What do I do with these other 9 sticks of RAM @ $25 each?
PC guy ... Just keep them. They're part of the joy of computing.

 

I know what you mean. I believe we have discussed actual brands here before that are known to work in the 27. I believe you will be looking for Crucial or Kingston but don't quote me on that as I don't own a 27. Be a little patient and we will get someone here who has one to post exactly what you need.

Welcome to the madness...

 

Buy more Toughbooks
Just because it's not recognized in your MK-2 does not mean it won't work fine in a mk-3 or on a cf-28 Mk-1

If the memory was a current stocked item it would be easy to bring it to a computer shop or retail location, pay twice as much for it as buying on-line and have it up and running

Thats not the case ,it is unfortunately trial and error unless someone here with the identical model and mk# that has 256 add on can look for the part #

Alex

 

Toughbooks are finicky on RAM in the CF-28 and below. Some work... Some don't. I'm not sure if you've read the stickies about the RAM types t try and that have been successful.... Or if they even cover the CF-27 model since it is so old.... But since people are STILL using the CF-25!..... We need to start collecting info about the lower models as well.... Think of yourself as a "Toughbook Patriot".... Blazing the trail.

As to how to get rid of the RAM... There is a free BST forum here just for that. There is also ebay.... But if you are buying from a professional PC guy in the first place... He should guarantee that it works or he will replace it. Otherwise he is just a "guy".... With no "PC" labeling. Maybe you can teach HIM about Toughbooks and everyone learns!?

And please let us know what you get and how it goes so we can add your knowledge to the database!

 

I highly recommend going to Crucial's website and using their memory recommendation tool. It has yet to steer me wrong. I also highly recommend crucial brand memory, although not their budget line. Well worth paying the extra for IMO. The only crucial product I've ever had fail was a 4gb usb flash drive.

 

Thanks for the help and info, guys.
Can I just make it clear that the conversation between myself and the PC shop guy posted ^^^ up there never actually took place. I do NOT have 8 sticks of RAM that don't work with my toughbook..

OK, now that that has been cleared up I have another, very strange, problem for you guys to consider.
My Toughbook is model number CF-27EJ6K3EE. It has a Pentium 2 chip running at 300 MHz. OK, using my logical head for a change, it seems to me that all Toughbooks with the same model number would also have a Pentium 2 chip and run at 300 MHz. Does that sound about right?

OK, can anyone please explain this or is my logic up the spout?
EBay item # 200398467505.
To save you searching, here are some of the specs of the laptop as stated on the auction page. I'll cut out most of it.

Display Type TFT Active Matrix
Processor Type Intel Pentium III
Display Size 10 inches TFT Active Matrix
Installed Memory 64 MB (192 MB Max)
Operating System Windows 98 SE
Processor Intel Pentium III 500mhz
Input Method Keyboard, TouchPad, Touch Screen


My own CF-27EJ6K3EE has ...
11.75 inch screen (measured diagonally)
Pentium 2 @ 300 MHz
128 mb installed RAM (That's the non-removeable type)
Plus, mine does not appear to have a touch screen.

Cheers for any info.
Steve

 

I went to the auction listing, and I would assume that the price is based upon the software included as there is NO CF-27 on earth worth that much money! I just paid $160 for a CF-29 1.4 complete! I know it is harder to find Toughbooks in the UK, and that they are higher in price than the same models here in the States, but WOW! Oh well, back to your questions. First, have you been in your BIOS and what does it have to say concerning info? Does touchscreen show in the BIOS? It has been a while since I fiddled with a 27, so I am fuzzy about what should be showing. Do the specs match what is on the one in the auction? Is it possible that either yours or the auction TB has ever had work done to them (either professionally or not)? There are many reasons WHY they may not match, but many would be pure speculation on anyone's part. Bottom line, work with what you have and do whatever upgrades are possible based on the limitations of your model.

 

I have a 128mb stick of ram that worked in my cf-27 Mk IV, let me see if I can find it and report back.

 

The only CF-27 that I know of that has 128mb onboard is the CF-27F and it is a PII 333MHZ with 13.3" screen are you sure yours isn't this model? all others have just 64MB onboard.

 

Hi Tough,
OK, I admit to being a doddery old frat with spelling difficulties but this laptop sat in front of me is definately a CF-27EJ6K3EE. It has a screen that is 10.75 inches from bottom left to top right of the viewable area and system info has it down as a P2 @300MHz with 128mb of RAM with the expansion slot empty.

The screen would seem to be NON-touch type. I have loaded what should be the proper drivers for a touch screen on this model, rebooted and let the laptop search for new devices but none were found.
I know it sounds corny but isn't there some kind of physical way to look at or touch a laptop screen and know for certain if it is a touch screen or not?
If it means anything, mine has a sort of black plastic triangle at the top left of the laptop's lid when I'm using the laptop. This holds the top of an extendable airiel but I have no idea what it is.
Cheers,
Steve

 

That is the pull out antenna for a WWAN connection (cell phone internet connection for your laptop) but uses outdated connectivity. It can be modified for use today, but that is a mid-high level of difficulty project. AFAIK, there is no way to tell the difference of touch/non-touch by site alone. If it shows in your BIOS, you definitely have touch; but just because it's not there doesn't rule it out. It could be unplugged, installed incorrectly, defective, etc which is preventing it from showing up. Now, as I stated earlier, if you open the lid up, you can tell by looking. A touchscreen uses a small circuit board to translate the touch to input. Its about 3"x1" maybe and would be mounted on one of the edges of the back of the screen. Non-touch units would not have this board.

Hope that helps..

 

Hi Steve - I'm of the same vintage as you and have played around with CF-27s for a few years now. I'm pretty sure the J6K part of your model number indicates it is non-touchscreen (probably ex-BT). The last two letters EE indicate the original OS as Win98 and the model to be European.The first letter E indicates it to be a Mk2, with the Mobile Pentium II 300PE chip (unless BT specified something different). However, as far as I know, this model only had 64mb of on-board RAM, to which you could add 128mb. If you have 128mb on-board RAM, as tough-2-go said, this suggests a Mk3, which had the Mobile Pentium II 333 chip. I don't know of any other CF 27 that had 128mb on the mobo. Even the Mk4 reverted to 64mb on board ram.

Regarding the screen, these tips from wikispace may work, although I've never tried either......."If you gently push the screen with the tip of your fingernail, whilst the laptop is switched on, the touchscreen should push in very slightly (approx 0.2-0.5mm) without the actual screen bending/flexing/showing signs of pressure stress.
Another way to look for a touchscreen is to use a (low powered) laser pointer, and point it at the screen horizontally at an angle of approx 80degrees. Then count the dots. If it's just got an LCD there should be one. If there's a touchscreen then there is going to be about three."

I just know you will have a low powered laser pointer lying about!

So, this has probably just added to your confusion.....you either have a strange ex-BT hybrid or some previous owner has been playing around with it. There is no way that the info supplied in the other eBay ad matches the model number - but then I would doubt the sanity of anyone listing a CF-27 at £400!

I have a Mk2 CF-27 with 128mb ram stick working quite happily - unfortunately, I can't tell you any details at the moment as it's still sitting out in the Sahara awaiting my return on the 28th December. I'll let you know what it is then.

Mark

 

Hi Old Git, (Love the name, BTW, which almost matches my eBay ID of *old_guy*)

I don't know what to do now. It's either a 166 with mmx or a 300 or a 333 and, when push comes to shove, does it really matter? It's never going to be happy with Photoshop or movie playback but that doesn't matter as long as the "Writer" prog still works.
Good bit of news on the RAM front though. In fact, I'd go so far as to say Excellent news.
This Toughbook DOES have 128mg of non-removeable RAM. I bought a stick of 256 mb RAM to build up its strength a little but no joy, the stick of RAM wasn't recognised. Anyway, I couldn't remember if I had left the RAM stick inside the Toughbook so I opener her up and the stick of RAM was in there but this time when I looked at it, I was wearing my reading glasses and I spotted that the retaining clip on one side wasn't as far in as the one on the other side. It was so small a mesurement that you couldn't measure it with a ruler but you could SEE that something was not quite right. Anyway, I pushed and pulled at it until both sides match and I now have 384 mb of RAM.

 

Always double check the seating of RAM modules if the machine won't recognize it. It's amazing how many times pulling and reseating a RAM module will get it to be seen by bios. It's great that this was your only problem

 

Sorry to bang on a bit about this "Is it touch screen or is it not a touch screen" malarkey but I've been thinking about it a bit. I have a few other devices with a touch screen. I mean retro stuff of about the same vintage as one of these Toughbooks. Namely a Samsung Izzi Pro and a Jornada 720. (Both fully working and a delight to use)
One thing I noticed when using them is that when you press the stylus on the screen, you can actually feel the screen depress by fraction of a millimetre. This Toughbook screen doesn't have that feel to it. Also, pressing on the Izzi and Jornada screens gives an odd visual effect. It will sound stupid but it looks like there is a very thin layer of jelly under the screen and when you press the stylus on it, the jelly under the stylus is pushed out to the sides which now has a swirly kind of look like petrol/gas looks when it lies on road. My Toughbook screen doesn't look like that.
My guess is that I don't have a touch screen, lol

 

I just thought I'd add something about the operating systems you can put on the CF-27.

So far, having tested "a few" of them:

1. Windows 95 works flawlessly but you won't be able to use a wireless card for the internet.

2. Windows 98 (first edition) will do everything you want as long as you download the unofficial service pack 2 and all the USB device drivers. It may give you a few "blue screens of death" from time to time though.

3. Windows 98 SE works best on the CF-27s with the built-in modems. You'll get shutdown problems with any other especially if you've upgraded the BIOS to handle Windows 2000. It's all to do with the power management. The MS patches do not work. I tried.

4. Windows ME. This much maligned OS works well apart from the mouse pointer staying on screen during the screensaver. It's probably a clash with the touchscreen drivers (you need to use the Windows 2000 one not Windows 98).

5. Windows 2000. It works but you need to max out the RAM (usually to 192mb) and it's very slow booting up. Once up, things work quite nicely but I wouldn't go beyond Office XP on there.

6. Windows XP SP 1. Nice and quick as long as you turn all the fancy graphics off and set it to "Windows Classic". The graphics cards in these things is pitiful to be honest even for the time they first came out.

7. Windows XP SP 2. Slow in starting and you'll probably see a Windows 2000 style progress bar before the main boot sequence starts. A bit too bloated for a CF-27 but still usable with a few tweaks as mentioned above.

8. Windows XP SP 3. Forget about it! It's not going to happen for you. Too slow for anything.

9. Vista or Windows 7. Hahahahaha no.

10. Linux. Zenwalk will work but good luck with a wireless internet card. Puppy will do the wi-fi but it looks awful and is difficult to understand. Xubuntu, no, too slow. Ubuntu - only 6.06 will work if you are lucky but it's no longer supported so you have to go to the archived repositories for programs. Forget having any touchscreen support on any of these linux operating systems either. I know it exists but the processor can't keep up.

Finally you can use MSDOS, FreeDOS, Windows 3.11 or even BeOS if you have apps for any of those. All the DOS programs run extremely fast but you'll never have the touchscreen, internet or USB socket working with DOS.

Yeah, I tried them all. The truth is that the CF-27 is most useful as a heavy doorstop now or as a feline entertainment centre. Internetting is awful due to the bulk of multimedia advertisements that have taken over. You won't be able to watch YouTube videos without downloading them first or go to any web site which isn't primarily test based.

You could always use the CF-27 to watch DVDs with a Margi DVD-to-go card and a DVD drive or make the world's heaviest and bulkiest Mp3 player out of it by attaching some headphones.

Merry Christmas.

 

If you wish to stay with Win98SE (or Millennium Edition) there's plenty of cool stuff on the MSFN forums. You can make your 98SE look like Vista while still running blazing fast. You can also make it run quite a bit of "XP-only" apps.

However, i got banned from there for a stupid reason last year, so be careful what you say there. They're not the most friendly bunch, but they do have quite an impressive amount of resources. I gave up on Win98 and DOS after my ban there (i had an account ban plus an IP ban that went away just a few months ago), but don't let that stop you. Be safe and have fun.

 

MSFN??
I'm sat here looking at those initials and trying to figure out what they may be.
Can I have a clue or are you not allowed to mention it on here?

 

Here is a link

http://www.msfn.org/board/forum.html

Alex

 

Cheers, Tomcat

 

5teve - im not sure if i read this right, but you bought the laptop speced as a 500mhz PIII with touch screen and got a 300mhz PII without touch screen for 400 quid!!!! my CF29 cost less than that!!! and in in the UK too

You can pick up CF27's all day long in the uk for 100, ebay 290385939382 !! 40quid if you dont mind a tatty one!! - 350298839454

My advise would be to contact the seller and get the machine you ordered, or get a refund, it is significantly not what was advertised.

The software would have some value, but unless you are an engineer with access to CNC equipment, its useless, especally if your going to wipe the drive anyway!

 

OK, here's my thinking on which OS to use.

Dos, Win 3.1, Win 95, Win 98..... I don't have any of these to try so I'd rather try stuff that I have first.
Win98SE ..... I have this OS on a laptop hard disk but not on a CD. It works OK and is fairly quick for non internet type stuff but I would like to be able to browse Google and forums without always being 3 conversations behind.
Win2KPro ..... I have this on a CD (kosher) but I only got it through the post today so, as yet, I have done nothing with it.
WinXP Pro (SP1) ..... On proper CD and with unlimited installs available.

I ran into snags though and now I don't know what to do.
As you may have guessed, I am no expert on this kind of stuff so I am basically just feeling my way as to what can and can't be done.
There are some niggly things going on which kind of throw me. Things like a Toughbook that has an internal CD drive but NOT the ability to boot from it. I guess that my main stumbling block is the time of year so I think I'll give it all a rest until my eyesight comes back into focus and my head stops throbbing. That should be about the 4th of January so until then, take care out on the roads and have a good New Year.
Cheers,
Steve

 

Matt .... No, you are NOT reading it right.
The £400 laptop was not bought by myself. It was just an example to show that a CF-27 EJ6K3EE such as that one would not always be exactly the same spec as the one that I bought with the exact same model number for about £55.
The one that I received was exactly as described in the auction so no worries on that score.
Cheers,
Steve

 

thats a relief!!

oh and with the not booting from CD issue, if you enter the bios by pressing F2 on boot, you should be able to change the boot order so tht it will boot from the CD drive before the hard drive...

 

Matt ... re a Toughbook not booting from a bootable PC.
I can't remember with absolute certainty whether it was the CF-35 or the CF-41 that I was working on at the time, and browsing the relevant websites, but one of them is not able to boot from a CD in the CD drive no matter what you do with the BIOS. It simply does not have the ability to do it.

Cheers,
Steve

 

Hi, I've been playing around with a cf27mk1 (266 mmx, no touchscreen and not much of anything else!) The mk2 I believe had 300 processor and a better? or at least bigger Neomagic video chip (256 versus 128xd).Before going much further I would recommend a visit to Panasonic Canada's site (google) its got a whole batch of drivers for every windows os from 95 thru to 2000 professional, for models mk1 to 4.There's also pdf copies of the owners manuals. (Make sure you choose English-Canada's bi-lingual !!).Keep well away from most of the so called driver sites on the net, most are either crap or infected or both.
Basically I agree with DR Bloods comments re the best os. 95 is too old, usb and LAN will probably never work without constant fiddling. 98/se keep falling over and theres no system restore facility but it is usable. Only problem is all the web browsers are so out of date that a lot of sites don't work.Millenium is basically 98se with restore facility, still falls over but you can (usually) pick it up again, same problem with the web browsers tho'.
To digress, 3D with neomagic. As far as I've managed to ascertain there never was hardware acceleration for 3D. Software 3D is available for directx versions 5.0 thro' to 8.0 but not 8.1 and any of the 9's. So version 8.0 is as high as you can go if you want any 3D capability at all!
XP ships with 8.1 so bye bye 3D also its about twice the installed size of the 9? series of os. Your cf27 will slow down to less than a BBC B but look really pretty. Waste of time.
The best choice is windows 2000 (2K).Its a hybrid XP/Millenium (NT series).Its plug and play drivers will pick up all your basic devices including LAN card, sufficient to get to the Canadian website to top up on any little missing bits. Directx is 7.0 which is ok for 3D. 2K takes a while for first bootup but is very stable and has the benefit that you can run the very latest version of Firefox browser.(In fact a lot of XP stuff works on 2K as they're closely related).
Once up and going get some utilities off Majorgeeks , there's a useful one called game booster which closes all background services at one click, which frees the limited cpu to go and get on with the main task. Using this and an old version of powerdvd I actually get watchable (20 fps) DVD playback.Wow!
BTW I have actually tried all the mentioned operating systems including 2 sorts of linux inc Puppy,both very slow more like XP, so don't waste your time, like I did. Thats why my wife gave me my nick-name.
P.S. I'm using the cf27 now.

 

DSL Linux works well with the cf-27, but it is a no frills operating system.