CF 29 Keyboard issue

Hi everyone. After years of lugging my CF27 round the world with me to different sites, I finally forked out for a second user CF 29, albeit an old, bog standard Mk 1 (Model No cf-29CTKGZDM).

It arrived from the US of A just before I left for another trip, so I thought I'd bring it with me to the middle of the Sahara. I've just got round to playing with it and the first problem I had was that it wasn't recognising the keyboard, as I couldn't access the BIOS with the F2 key. So I plugged a standard keyboard in the back and had a quick look round the BIOS, everything looking pretty much standard.

Next problem, on exiting the BIOS set up, it wouldn't access the hard drive (the original 40Gb Toshiba), but no worries, I had a brand new 160Gb Hitachi that I had already bought in anticipation of upgrading it. So following TB's pictorial guide, I whipped out the old one, fitted the Hitachi, put it back and it worked fine. Thanks TB - it took under 30 minutes, even for an old fart like me .

Next I swapped the floppy drive it came with for the DVD drive from my CF27, installed XP Professional SP3 and up she ran, no real problems at all. The touchscreen and audio didn't work and a quick look in device manager showed a bunch of unrecognised devices (Multimedia Audio Controller, Network Controller, PCI Modem, one unknown device, and 2 video controllers (one VGA compatible). I presume this is because I haven't installed the necessary drivers yet and am hoping these will all be OK when I get round to doing so.

The only keyboard showing in device manager is the standard one I used during windows installation, which is shown as being plugged into the keyboard port (even though it isn't now). The fitted keyboard is a Fujtsu rubberised one (N860-1435-T100/03). All the ribbons seem to be connected OK and there is no obvious physical damage. Before I go to the trouble of swapping the rubberised one from my CF 27, is there anything else I can do to check it out?

Any advice appreciated. And thanks for a great Forum, all you contributors.

As an aside, I know my 29 isn't leading edge technology, but it will more than serve my purposes. I use it for basic word processing, wireless comms (using a couple of different PCMCIA cards) and for GPS, which is pretty essential in the places I work. I use a Deluo Universal, with Fugawi software and get georeferenced digital maps from here http://en.poehali.org/maps?page=12. They are Russian maps, covering just about the whole globe, but since the place names are translated phonetically, with a copy of the Cyrillic alphabet, you can soon work them out. I bought 322 maps covering the whole of Libya for $19 - which has got to be a bargain in any language.

My trusty old CF27 has never let me down, even when I left it baking in a closed pick-up for half a day, when the outside temperature hit 134F (56C). God know what it was inside the truck, but the 27 booted up without a hitch! And I just love the laughter it generates from those folks who don't appreciate the Toughbook's qualities and then I sit back and chuckle quietly to myself as their laptops give up the ghost in the first sandstorm. Actually, I gloat, quite loudly

 

haha yeah i love it when they laugh and have a go at me for it being bulky, until i show them the touchscreen, and show them the height i could safely drop it from without any damage... unlike their laptops... haha

back on topic,
could the ribbon cable be damaged. maybe the previous owner pulled the laptop apart and broke it...

 

OK
What O/S type of software did you install
A windows xp pro disk will have all drivers (maybe not the most current) except hotkeys,touchscreen,wi-fi card
There should be no problems using the standard keyboard for windows loading
It sounds like there is a hardware fault or two

Alex

 

I agree echidna3 - there's nothing quite a satisfying as being a smug b*****d!!

I'm pretty sure it's not the cable. I did a couple of things in the past hour. First I thought I'd uninstall the standard keyboard that was showing as still connected to the keyboard port. That all seemed to go OK - the comp re-booted, then it came up with "found new hardware" and I thought it had installed the rubberised one. But when I checked, it had for some reason re-installed the external keyboard - even though it wasn't attached. Which seems strange to me.

Secondly, rummaging around, I found my old CF-27 chicklet keyboard, so I thought I'd give that a go first. It was working perfectly when I swapped it for the rubberised one on the 27, but on connecting it to the 29, same problem, it doesn't work. So now I'm looking for some sage advice from some of the Toughbook gurus on here please.

 

Tomcat, I have a genuine copy of Windows XP Professional, Version 2002, Service Pack 3 - a clean install on a new disk

 

It sounds like there is a hardware fault
Usually the toughbook keyboard show up in the device manager as a standard keyboard

Alex

 

Thanks Alex, that would explain why it installed again. Now I just have to figure why it recognises it, but it won't work. Device manager tells me its working properly. Like I said, the keyboard doesn't work on first boot, so as you say it's looking more like a hardware fault.

I'll have another go tomorrow - I'll try the CF 29 rubberised keyboard in my 27 and if it works in that, at least it will eliminate the keyboard and the ribbons as the problem. Then I'll have to look deeper

 

Yeah... I think I think you may have a bad keyboard. What type is it? Standard, rubber or emissive... If it is rubber... Does it have two ribbon cables or three?

 

It’s strange
When I have forgotten to hook up one of the two flat cables on the standard keyboard ,some keys would still work, they would not all be dead

Alex

 

It's a rubberised, three ribbon type (N860-1435-T100/03), but I've taken it out and tried a standard CF 27 two ribbon type as well, and that doesn't work either, neither on first boot nor within Windows

 

Dumb question... Are you folding the skinny one upsidedown?

I have had several rubber keyboards that either drop out entirely or drop out in groups of 4-5 keys at a time. It is weird... And a waste... You would think it is an easy fix... But since it is hermeticaly sealed (or so it looks) there is really nothing to do.

The rubber one from a CF-27 (2 ribbon cables) will work in the CF-29 but you may have a tough time having it stay in place depending on what type of keyboard trim strip you have.

 

No, I checked that one TB.

Anyway, I connected the rubberised keyboard to my CF-27 (minus the 3rd connector of course) and it works perfectly, so I guess that eliminates the keyboard and the ribbons as the culprits.

Just have to keep looking and trying other things I guess.

 

Just wondering, in device manager, why does it report the keyboard location as "plugged into the keyboard port"? Does this not refer to the PS/2 socket on the back?

On my 27 it shows as being located on an Intel PCI to ISA bridge, which is what I would expect,

Any ideas anyone?

 

You have some sort of conflict going on I think. Either that or you have sand in the ribbon cable contact or a bad connection.

Device Manager is showing your plugged in keyboard... Not your standard keyboard.

 

Trouble is TB, I don't have a 2nd keyboard plugged in. I did initially because the keyboard wasn't working on first boot and I couldn't access the BIOS. I left it plugged in when I installed XP2 and I thought that may be the problem, so I disconnected the external keyboard, re-booted, uninstalled the keyboard showing as "plugged into keyboard port" and re-booted.

Windows just came up with "found new hardware" and installed the drivers for a keyboard that wasn't even attached!! And still no standard keyboard.

You could be right about a conflict - but first I need to find out why the comp doesn't recognise that the standard keyboard is fitted on first boot. Nothing shows up during POST - no 0211 (Keyboard error) or 0212 (Keyboard Controller failed) error messages. There are no beep sounds during the POST, nothing at all to indicate that the keyboard or the controller are malfunctioning. Just no b****y keyboard.

Frustrating, but something to do at night in the middle of the desert!

 

I'll bet you won't get it working right until you reload XP... I would never plug in ANYTHING while XP is loading the OS.... You never know what it may grab.

I'd reload XP with your standard keyboard and get it over with.... (With nothing plugged in!) Or you'll spend 5x that amount of time rabbit chasing the issue. Believe me... That comes from an old rabbit chaser!

 

I was thinking that, but if XP gets as far as wanting the product number and I still have no keyboard, I'm banjaxed. I'll give it a go tomorrow night though

 

No
In this case you can do all your troubleshooting before loading windows
In the bios screen the keyboard has to work to navigate or you will have no luck in windows for sure
With the external keyboard reset the bios to the standard defauts and see if its ok afterwords
It looks like a conflict as Toughbook says or its a hardware/controller failure


Alex

 

You have an issue with the motherboard. Keyboard controller, blown fuse, BIOS set up wrong, something. The FIRST thing I would try is plugging your external keyboard in, rebooting into the BIOS, and selecting DEFAULT. Then reboot w/out the external keyboard in place. If you can't get the keyboard to respond even in BIOS, and you know you have a working keyboard as you hooked it up to your 27, then all that's left is the motherboard. You could PM Teo (username Ohlip) and see if he can point you in the right direction for a fuse maybe? Other than that, I think you need a new motherboard.

 

Thanks for the advice guys - just finished work and will get onto it and see what transpires.

 

Hi! before I go beyond I have one dumb question for the day. Since you already have an access to the keyboard connector will you take out the two screws on keyboard connector pcb and see if the interface cable is there. There must have an interface cable between the mbo. that goes to the keyboard connector pcb or it may be loose or not connected properly the worst may be missing.. Check it out and as much as posible clean it and reseated the ribbon cable to the connector. Then report back before we go beyond.

ohlip

 

Spot on ohlip! TB suggested the same in a pm. The cable is more than loose. The connector looks very similar to some I've seen in the 27 - one of those fragile hinged locks. The locking bit is missing and the left hand side hinge has been broken off. I can also see signs of some nasty rubberised material, so someone has tried to stick the interface cable back before.

As always with ebay - buyer beware!

Having read most of the threads on here, I'm now off to backtrack and find the one about shaping a piece of material to try to replicate the missing bit. I'm loathe to dump an otherwise nice unit.

Once again, thank you to all for your time and patience

 

Did the missing piece still there? Also on which part, If it is on the keyboard connector pcb part. Don't be upset I have an spare but if it is on the mbo., its another story.


ohlip

 

No the little piece that flips back and locks the interface cable is missing and unfortunately it's the hinge on the mobo that's broken. Having taken a few 27's apart, I was ultra cautious when I disconnected the keyboard. (although I have to say the keyboard connectors on the 29 are a little more robust than those on the 27, but still not what I'd call Tough )

 

You should be able to fix this... You can shim it! Like with VERY thin plastic.... More than cellophane but less than the thickness of a touchscreen protector....

Something will come blowing across the desert before morning I imagine!

Glad you located the issue. That is more than half the battle.

 

Hey Rick, not only a Toughbook Guru, but psychic as well!

After discovering the fault, I spent a while pondering the problem in close up. Myopia has its benefits when you want to see things in detail. So I figured the same thing. You only have to get the interface cable to stay put and it should work. A slice off the tapered edge of my scale rule looked promising, but was much too thick. A bit of plastic from a laminated data sheet was also too thick. The solution was staring me in the face - the plastic cover of the CF-29 Service Manual that I had bound up was perfect!

Using a piece the exact width of the cable, I had to insert the cable and the plastic shim together. It was impossible to put them in separately (for me at least), but bear in mind, I'm working with two precision screwdrivers, a Swiss Army knife (the little tweezers are a God-send) and a can of compressed air duster (essential in the desert)!

It took a little bit of force to get them in together, but having done so, I switched on and voila, I had a fully functional keyboard. I gave the interface cable a couple of not-too-gentle tugs and it stayed put.

I did take some pictures of what I did, but as the little shim is transparent, it can't be seen, so they won't be a lot of use to anyone. Patience and dexterity seem to be the main requirements. But as you say TB, the secret is to get the correct thickness of shim. When I lay my hands on a precision micrometer, I'll measure it up and post the details - it may help someone in the same predicament.

So, having put it all back together, I'm going to load all the correct drivers and my GPS software and road test it. If the cable stays put here in the Sahara, it will stay put anywhere - the desert roads are seriously corrugated and the vibrations in my pick-up are enough to cause compressed vertebrae!

I'll let you know how it goes. I love Toughbooks - they remind me of the days when I was able to work on my own car engine.

By the way, the keyboard still shows up as being plugged into the keyboard port, even though it works perfectly.

 

Good! Nothing I like more than a McGyver fix that works well!

You may want to make it stay put with a blob or two of hot glue. Not an elegant solution but it will help absorb some of the vibration on those potholed roads.

Good job!