CF-18 dies when unplugged

I have a CF-18 that I first thought was a dead battery, it would no longer turn on unless plugged in. Also if it was on and I unplugged it, it would instantly die, and at one point it looked like the battery indicator was flashing red, so it looked like a dead battery issue.
I opted for the exchange from batteryrefill.com, got the new battery and it seemed to be working fine again for the past two days. Today during lunch while running on battery, ~68% left, it just died, screen went blank, wouldn't start again. When I got home, plug it in, starts right up, battery is fine blah blah...
Unplug the charger, it dies....

Sometimes if I'm lucky, it will start off the battery, and when you plug in the charger its all still good, but if I pull out the charger.... it dies...

Any ideas? I've searched and can't find anything here or on google. And it doesn't look like a loose connection inside, but I haven't explored that much.

 

I would explore more on the inside for a loose connection or solder joint where the battery connection is inside. I believe it was Ohlip that found this same problem on other laptops, possibly even the 18 series, and he ended up fixing it I think by reflowing the solder connections there.

 

I don't trust aftermarket batterys
I have had no luck with them
I have seen where the time remaining says 2 hours 60% and then its dead a few minutes later
Try a battery refresh, and sometimes you can reset the battery by unseating the battery and inserting it back in
The cf-18 panasonic batterys used usually last 2 to 3 hours, and a new old stock should be over 4hours


Alex

 

I'm fairly certain its not the battery itself. For a while the old battery was showing a certain time left, but then the percentage would drop and it would hibernate everytime. This is die instantly, and it worked fine before this, and fine yesterday.

 

One of the panasonic techs posted about a year ago on one of the benefits/upgrades that panasonic did when they came out with the cf-19
He stated that there was an issue with the battery connector located on the m/b on the cf-18, and over time it has failed and has had a bad connection

Its a shame you don't have a spare battery around to narrow it down


Alex

 

Yeah... As I recall... If you look up a post by GunHog you will see how he fixed his.

 

Thanks for remembering TB

I had completely forgot about Gunhog

Here is two links to cf-18 charging issues


http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=355611


http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=361708



Alex

 

I do have a spare battery, both work fine, until it decides to be pissy...
It sporadically died twice yesterday, both times I was able to take the battery out and put it back (sometimes wiggle a few times) and it worked again. So it seems like there is something up with the battery connector or motherboard. I had the back of the case off the other night, and I couldn't see anything wrong with the connector. I may try again sometime this weekend if I can find a magnifying glass to really peek at the solder joints, though everything looked fine.

PS. the two links from your last post are the same... and I'd already read that one, none of the pins are bent.

 

Oops

I edited it to show the other link that TB was thinking of



Alex

 

Soo... its still not working right.
I've tried fiddling around with the pins to make sure they made good contact with the battery, that didn't do anything.
The connector looked firmly attached to the mobo, but just in case, I broke out the soldering iron and remelted each pin's connection, no change..

I tried the battery refresh utility, and it never finished the charging step. Both times (one each battery) it sat overnight, and was still "charging" in the morning. However, the battery meter on the screen did change from about 60% to 99% for my old battery (it hadn't been charged in a few weeks so was low).

As it stands, 95% of the time it won't run on either of the two batteries I have. 5% of the time it will. Both batteries are showing a 99% charge, but after being in the laptop for a couple hours, I get the dead battery, blinking red LED

So I'm wondering if its a lost cause right now. I'm guessing my options are to send it in for service, or replace it. Any other ideas?

 

Have you tried reflowing the solder joints where the battery connector mounts to the mobo? Since I have the same issue... And since it has been mentioned (An is obvious) that this connector solders straight to the mobo... I'm betting that there is a connection somewhere that has cracked and a reflow may help it out...

I'll try it later today and let you know... I have two other laptops I need to work on before the CF-18 though..

 

Yah I tried that... I'm not great at soldering things (especially not small connections), but I'm pretty sure I held the iron on long enough to remelt the solder. I either saw it melt or could feel it wiggle when it liquified.
Didn't do a damn thing...

I'm thinking a fuse, resistor, capacitor or something on those lines blew, and I don't have a way to test, much less fix anything that tiny on mobo's.

 

Ummm... yeah. Soldering is a bit more of an art; just "remelting" the existing solder doesn't mean anything - very often, you can make the connection WORSE by improper soldering.

You need the correct tools and some decent rosin-core solder (Do NOT use acid-core solder on electronics - the flux will eat the traces off the board). Radio Shack has good solder, as long as you stay away from the lead-free stuff. Get yourself a fan, and have it set up on your bench to pull the solder fumes away from you.

Go here for a good primer on soldering:

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-solder/

If you want the big pictures you have to sign up, but it IS free...

Good luck!

mnem
TSSSSSSST!

 

Aw geeez... You mean all the solder smoke I've been sniffing over the years is BAD for me?

It's bad enough the gun ranges now have to have fans to pull the "lead" out of the air when you shoot.

Ahhh... The old Roman Sweet Lead! What a great drink... I guess that's why in Old Rome the average life-span was only 35 years old!

 

They say it's a major cause of short term memory loss in tech workers...

mnem
WhaWeTalkinAbout?

 

Maybe I should be tested!

 

Well... I just spent 2+ hours yanking the CF-18 motherboard out. My first thought was the sloppy way that Panasonic installed the heat dissipation "clay"... There was a big chunk getting ready to fall off. I thought maybe some of that came off and got lodged somewhere... Nope... I also refloated the solder joints on the battery conector... Still no love.

The one thing it does... And I don't think I was clear on this last time I said it.... The light on the brightness up/down on the front will flash briefly if you turn the on switch on... And HOLD IT there. I then hear a faint "tap" on the inside at the same time the LED behind the brightness controls flash. I can't seem to localize where it comes from as it sounds like everywhere you put your ear up to is close.

This is too nice a laptop to be stuck to an AC adapter... Someone MUST have an idea!

 

Do you remember this post


http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=334720&highlight=#10

Alex

 

LOL... I meant an idea on how to fix it!... (Yes... I remember scratching my head then too!) I already know how to strap more stuff to it... Look at some of the sellers on ebay... Instead of doing it internally... They pile ALL the stuff you get... That you have to carry... And lose... Or break....

I REALLY want to fix this!

<Secretly buys Big *** battery, just in case>

 

I was just kidding

If the experts around here are not going to suggest something....…well you are just going to have to listen to my great ideas

Ok I understand you a little better now
You don’t want to pack around an extra 10 lbs of batteries


Alex

 

I think I'll try to trace the schematic out and see where that leads... I thought I checked all the fuses... That and clean the contacts again....

 

Toughbook,

The way I would check the fuses would to keep power on the motherboard from the battery and then check the voltage at one side of the fuse and then check the other side. If you get a different voltage from one side the it could be the fuse.

I had a simler problem on a old IBM.

 

Yeah... That will most likely be my next option. In looking at the schematics... There is a sensing circuit but it's a little tough to follow. I guess I'll know more when I pop it back open and trace some of the schematics...

 

Toughbook,

I was forgot to say some fuses can go into a high resistence, but also fool the DM making it think is a short.

 

Well... Right now all the fuses I have checked have zero resistance. I am trying to trace the circuit now... But sheesh... What a job!

 

Toughbook,

I would still check them with the battery connected to see if the voltage is the same on both sides. you could have one that reads 0 ohm without voltage and go high with voltage.

here is an other idea you could try stick wires into the connetions on the battery and connect them to corspoding pin on the laptop but the DM on amps and put it in the + side of the battery try switch on the laptop and see what amp does it take. It could hold an answer to your problem.

 

Okay... Here's the latest poop..

Took it all apart... again.... Nothing looked bad... Nothing checked out as bad... It was a little dusty and dirty so I cleaned it up a little and blew it all off with compressed air. It was missing a PCMCIA port cover so you never know what might have ended up in there and there was dust everywhere. A thought that had crossed my mind earlier was the heat sink clay. It really shoots out between the CPU and the sink. There was a fine ribbon of it that was barely holding on when I took it apart last time... And this time again. I thought maybe some had dropped off and crossed connections somewhere... Now I don't think so... So here's what I decided to do... Put it all back together and see if it worked... Yes and no... I didn't try this before... But I decided to boot it up first with the AC adapter and then pull out the AC... IT STILL RAN. Hmmm... Okay.. Let's do it again... I went into the BIOS and set everything.... Booted into XP and then pulled the AC adapter out again... Everything is fine.... Then I shut it down and try to boot off the battery.. Nothing... So I plug it back up, hit the ON button and immediately after that... Pull out the AC.. It booted up.

So.. What have we learned? Um... Not a whole lot yet... I'm not sure if techgod's CF-18 does it this way also... The other thing... It sounded like the ticking noise was coming from the oscillator next to the CPU....

So... Anyone have another guess? Now it runs on battery... It just won't start on the battery.

 

Thoughbook,

I would try and link the battery up to the cf-18 with wire and have Digital mulitmeter so you can use it to read what amp its taken fromthe battery when you try to turn on the laptop from the battery.

It could be that the laptop is taken to many amps from the battery and the battery shutting down to protect its self

 

I don't think it is the battery. I have three different batteries for CF-18s... It all is the same no matter which one I use...

 

thoughbook

we need to see what CF-18 is drawing from the batteries when you try to switch it on.


example.

if the CF-18 need 500ma when working normal and when switch pressed it takes 800ma

the battery is 2000ma and limited at 1000ma

but a faulty CF-18 is taken 1100ma when switch is pressed

so out come is the battery protection kick in and the laptop does not boot.

 

Rick -

You have a switch-mode power supply section on the mainboard; it controls the charging & current limiting of the battery. The "tick-tick" you hear is most likely a shorted coil, transistor or capacitor - the power supply tries to apply power to the circuit in question, it senses an over-current condition, then shuts down that section. After a set period, it tries again, over & over.

I would use a stethoscope or a bit of metal or dense plastic (better, for obvious reasons) rod pressed against your skull at the base of the ear like a mechanic does when tracking a noise in an engine; once you isolate the source of the noise, start tracking down that circuit for a shorted component.

Good hunting,

mnem

Tick-tick? Spoon-spoon?

 

Yeah... I tried that with two straws taped together and stuck in my ear.. Talk about feeling like a dork! I do have a regular mechanic's stethiscope... But it is metal!



<ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzot>

 

Then put some heat shrink tubing on the probe end and... voila!

mnem
Ain't nuthin' but a thang, chicken wing...

 

Mine performs the same. Will sometimes (not always..) run if started on AC and the cord is pulled out, but generally only if I pull the cord while its still loading the BIOS. Also, before the problem got really bad, it would randomly shut off while running, then not restart.

I tried what you were saying about holding the switch in, and hear the same ticking sound. To me, it sounds like the speaker, like when you turn on or turn off any computer speaker it makes a little click as the power cycles.

I would agree that something is shorted out or burned out or screwed up, but I don't have the electronics skills/tools to trace it down anymore than I have. But please keep sharing what you find!

 

Well... As much as I would like to learn a little more about this issue... It looks like I MAY be able to get my money back... Since it doesn't work as the seller told me it did.... I'll know more later today after I speak to him...

 

Thanks for all the input guys... My CF-18 is going back tomorrow... The guy will test it and, if it's like I say (and it is), then he will refund my money.

I'll get another one... Since I ordered bunch of parts for it. Sheesh

 

Tooghbook,

Good here he willing to take it back and give you your money back.

I hope all go well.