CF-19 Charging Issue

Hi everyone, I posted a question here a while back and received awesome help from the community, so I'm going to give it another shot.

I have a CF-19 with a charging issue. I did a forum Google search and also perused the battery resource thread and I can't much specific to what I'm experiencing.

So, when I plug the unit in with a charger it will charge (orange light shows up) for only about 20 seconds. After that the unit stops charging. I read in other threads about chargers, this is a Panasonic charger 16V, 3.75A, which I believe is correct. I tried a different battery, same issue. I tried a different charger, same issue. I used these two battery/charger +HDD combos in a different CF-19 chassis, and everything works normally. If I unplug the AC adapter from the laptop OR from the wall and plug it back in, it will charge for the same 20 seconds, then stop. I tried to run the battery calibration utility, but the battery still won't charge for step 1 of the utility. The Toughbook will run fine plugged in with the battery removed.

I don't know much about the innards of these things, but I'm suspecting that the issue is with the power connector or some internal component that gets power from the cord plug-in to the battery. The fact that it will charge for 20 seconds stumps me though.

Any thoughts or need more information?

Thanks

 

If you haven't already, try discharging one of the batteries almost fully and then see if it charges.
Also check the connector pins inside the battery bay.
At work, got to go.

 

Thanks for the response,

I will give this a try, although the user brought the unit to me because it would not charge and shut off in the field due to low battery. It does not appear to me that any connector pins inside the battery bay are bent or missing.

EDIT
I just ran the Toughbook until it shut off automatically and then tried to plug it in. Same issue, it charges for about 20 seconds then it stops charging and the red blinking light comes back.

 

Red blinking light means there is an error charging (*usually* battery damaged in some manner). The orange light for the first 20 secs is the device trying to charge the battery, so clearly it's detected that it's plugged in and recognises it.

 

Hmm, the same battery will charge in a different chassis (orange light stays on). So it must be a charging error that is caused by this specific CF-19 shell. I'll take a closer look at the battery bay internals and pins.

It is my understanding that during this 20 seconds the battery is charging. At least that's what it looked like in the battery calibration utility... the bar showing the battery charge showed it was charging for that initial 20s plug-in.

 

Sounds like a problem with the connector that the battery connects to. If there are no bent pins, check the solder connections to the pins.

 

What Glen said +1, best guess is poor or no contact/broken solder joint at the battery connector - easy enough to rework the joints & confirm connections with the bottom cover removed.

However..."although the user brought the unit to me because it would not charge and shut off in the field"... suggests a business environment. In the UK at least such work must be undertaken by a "competent person" to comply with relevant legislation.

These batteries do need very closely-controlled charge/discharge conditions to remain safe.

 

I will definitely check out the solder connections and let you guys know when I get the time. I really think that could be the issue because it seems like that problem would produce my symptoms.

@unclemack
I'm not in the UK and am unaware of similar legislation in my location. Thanks for the heads up, though. What qualifies as "competent"? I am an IT professional... is there some sort of certification?

 

@ ouits

If I read too much into your words "I don't know much about the innards of these things" and unwittingly gave offence I apologise.

"Competent person" is the term used by the UK Health & Safety Executive and also the IEEE to describe an individual who may be employed to carry out tasks with safety implications in a business or public environment - hence my use of the term and of quotation marks.

I did not mean to imply that you were not such a person. Only you know if you can safely do this work.

 

Haha, no I can see where you would make that assumption based on what I wrote. I am familiar with PC internals, as in desktops and components. The CF-19 and Toughbooks in general are a bit of a different beast!

 

This morning I replaced the pin connector and ribbon cable on the affected CF-19 with pieces from a spare (that does charge) and I'm still getting the red blinking light 20 seconds after I plug it in... I really hoped that would work.

Any other ideas?

EDIT
I took the pin connector and ribbon cable from the affected unit and installed it into my spare chassis, and a battery inserted into the spare unit charges fine. So the problem is not with the pin connection and ribbon cable. I think we may be in a territory here where I can't replace the bad part. Maybe it's that terminal where the ribbon cable terminates into the mobo.

 

Unfortunately, it does sound like a problem with the MB.

 

There is still a glimmer of hope. Boot the system and go into BIOS. Look for a setting "Environment" or something very similiar. IIRC there are options there. One - Auto, Two - Normal, Three - High. It may say Normal Temp or High Temp or something like that. Try any of the settings first and if no luck, try the others. Another idea - try "Load Default Values" in the BIOS. That should be on the Exit screen.

 

Is it worth checking the on-board diagnostics for hardware issues that may be related?
I don't think the battery is included but something else may be involved.
And when the battery voltage is sensed as 4.2, ie. fully charged, by the charge controller on a working system does it charge for around your reported 20s before responding? I've never noticed.

oops. battery voltage here should read cell voltage of course. duh.

 

I went through Auto/Normal/High and the issue persists. I also loaded default values and tried that, no solution. I appreciate the help though.

That's ctrl+F7 on boot, correct? I'll let that run overnight.

Thanks.

 

"That's ctrl+F7 on boot, correct? I'll let that run overnight."

Set defaults first but yes, ctrl+F7 - doesn't take much more than 40 minutes or so.

Probably won't learn anything useful but you never know.

From the actual soldered terminals which attach CN 15 to the main PCB to the (unconnected) battery connector's pins I would check all tracks thoroughly - more than once - for continuity. FPC's and their sockets are among the most common causes of failure in every kind of portable equipment I've repaired, including laptops. By checking from CN 15's terminals you're also checking the socket-to-FPC contact.

I've wasted a lot of time in the past by not checking FPC's thoroughly enough first time. Failures are so common it's almost a surprise when it's something else...

Most manufacturers including Panasonic use FPC's at sharper angles than is sensible and tracks can become discontinuous - sometimes intermittently, which is the worst PITA.

 

Ohlip or Mnem will probably be your best resource here, or even Toyo. AFAIK, when you install the battery and plug in the adapter the system will go through a series of checks, hence the orange light. If the battery is damaged, you will get the red light. If everything checks out ok, you will get the steady orange light. The current needs to make a complete loop for the orange light to stay on. Complete with what? I am not entirely sure. Hopefully they can answer that. Since the battery and adapter both work in another laptop, and since you have changed the pin connector and ribbon cable from a working unit, and since you have tried all the BIOS options, the only thing left is the path of current. Your circle is broken somewhere on the MB. Now if I remember correctly, there should be a fuse somewhere on that line for the charging (or this may have been the 29). See if you can obtain a schematic of your board and trace the power route and look for a fuse along that line and check it for continuity. I hope we're on to something here.

 

Yeah, diagnostic returned squeaky clean.

I follow this line of thought, but if I've already replaced the FPC and battery connector pins from a unit that is known to work I think we can rule out a discontinuity in the FPC and/or failed connector pin. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we're looking at a bad CN15 terminal or somewhere else in the loop.

It makes sense to me that there would be a fuse for the charging line. I'll try to hunt down a schematic.

Thanks everyone! Hope we're getting close.

 

Is in an OEM battery? What mk is the "defective" unit and the unit that correctly charges the battery?
I had an aftermarket battery in a CF50 that would act the same as you describe when it was in a CF50 mk4, but in a CF50 mk 3 or lower it worked perfectly.
An OEM battery worked fine in either unit.

 

The battery is OEM. I'm actually not sure the MK of the defective unit, the stickers on the underside have come off, but the battery in question worked for ~3 years on this unit so I don't think it's a compatibility issue.

Motherboard schematics are proving really hard to find. Anybody have a copy?