CF-28 Illuminated Keyboard Question

I'm having a problem getting the emmissive type illuminated keyboard working in one of my 1Ghz CF-28s. It came with the rubber, chicklet type and it worked fine. 4 different steps of brightness. I bought the emmissive type. The kind that looks and types like a regular keyboard. I just can't type on the chicklet POS. Anyway... I installed the emmissive type and no joy! They work fine in my 800Mhz models.

Anyone have a guess or know for sure? I thought all keyboards worked in all models. It's not a BIOS issue. That all looks good.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

toughbook..........is there a manual on the keyboard from panasonic, maybe it needs a different firmware??????????
am just guessing here!!!!!!!!!

 

i just got a few 28s in that have the full-stroke backlit keyboard. they have the 800 MHz mbd tho. i will try them on a 1 GHz when i get a chance!

 

It appears that the only illuminated keyboard that works on the CF-28 1Ghz model is the rubber chicklet type. Actually... The rubber chicklet type that has the three ribbon cables. The chicklet type has the smaller ribbon cable with two leads in the cable... The emissive type has three leads in the smallest ribbon cable.

There are three ribbon cables that plug into the PC board under the keyboard. Two on the left and one small one on the right. The one small one on the right just controls the brightness level... That's it.

It's a real head scratcher for me...

 

Well.. My 1 GHz has a 2-connector rubber keyboard (taken from a 27) and it works fine. I was just wondering what the other two connectors in the keyboard compartment were for! I've never seen a 3-connector keyboard.

 

Well.. I just got in another CF-28 @ 1Ghz tonight and it has the emissive keyboard... And it works like a charm. When I have the time I'll take it apart and post back what I find.

 

The emmissive keyboard LED's are electroluminescent (EL) and require a high voltage inverter to operate the lights 80-100VAC. The inverter along with a photosensor are installed in the laptop that came with that type of keyboard. Therefore you can't just swap the keyboard by itself to another laptop that did not originally have the EL keyboard. You will find the photosensor just above the F4 key under the hinge cover and the inverter is attached to the motherboard and is accessible by removing the thin plate on the bottom of the laptop.

 

fascinating. are you referring to the full-stroke keyboards, not the rubber ones? i can vouch for the fact that the rubber ones can be moved from one computer to another and the backlight still works. i wonder why they would not have used the same system in the full-stroke ones? i'm about to take one of those apart, i'll report my findings!

 

Yes I am refering to the full stroke backlit keyboard. The rubber ones with two connectors are all interchangeable between models. The EL keyboard has 3 connectors the smaller connector is where the high voltage is fed to operate the lights.

 

Hmmmm... I aquired two 1Ghz model CF-28s. They are exact in all respects EXCEPT...
1. One CF-28 came with rubber "chicklet" style keyboard
Has BIOS of V3.00L12C
Embedded controller of V3.00L17

2. One came with emissive that works
Has BIOS of V3.00L12
Embedded controller of V3.00L12

Both have photo sensor above the F4 key. What now? Looks like I need a BIOS update to get the emissive keyboard to work in the other laptop!
Any idea?

 

I haven't taken apart my emissive keyboard 28s yet, but I wonder if the "sensor" is really related to the keyboard.

First of all, nothing happens when I cover it up. the keyboard should get brighter, no?

Secondly, I've got a 600 MHz 28 with a 12" touchscreen, and an identical sensor is in the LCD lid. (which also seems to do nothing when covered up) I thought this meant I had a transflective screen, but I've since been told otherwise. That one had a normal keyboard, BTW.

Third, the emissive keyboard works the same as the rubber one, as far as the four keystroke selectable brightness levels.

 

The keyboard will turn off if you shine a bright light in the sensor it does not have the opposite effect if you cover it up.

If your CF-28 has a 12" screen and there is a sensor on the bezel then you do have a transflective screen. Have you taken it outside in direct sunlight? You will be amazed. The sensor will turn off the backlight in direct sunlight, this is to conserve power.

The rubber and emissive keyboard do work the same way with the Fn F12 except for the sensor on the emissive. because it uses really high voltage it keeps the lights off in bright light also to conserve power. The rubber keyboards use regular 5v led's so power consumption is not an issue and thus do not need the photosensor.

 

the problem from switching from a chiclit to an emmissive is that the backlight controller is different, youll need to obtain a new controller. It comes with the keyboard for part #dfwv43h0158 not n2abzj000033.

 

what do you mean by "controller"? are you talking about the little PC board that mounts in the bottom of the computer? As far as I can tell there's nothing equivalent to this for the chicklet style.

 

Can someone list the differences in the keyboards...and how you can tell which one you have.. "without" taking it apart..?? LOL
Mine is lit.. but the keys are very thin... no more than 2mm thick...

 

There's three types of keyboards. The first is the plain, ordinary, no-backlight keyboard. It is a full-stroke keyboard with grey keys.

There is a rubber/elastomer backlit keyboard. This is easily identified by the one-piece black molded rubber overlay. These are backlit, but don't require any extra hardware to make the backlight operate. They are a drop-in replacement for the regular keyboard. there are at least two different styles of this keyboard, the difference being how tall the keys are. There is a slightly different feel between the two styles, but other than that they are the same.

Finally there's the full-stroke backlit keyboard. It LOOKS just like the regular keyboard, but the keys are black not grey. This one requires a little more circuitry for the backlight function. there is a light sensor just above the keyboard on the left side, and there's a small circuit board that mounts on the bottom panel of the computer. There is interconnect cabling that ties the whole mess together. Most would probably agree that the feel of this keyboard is better than the rubber ones, but you don't get the added measure of waterproofing that the rubber keyboard offers

If anyone knows of OTHER keyboards, feel free to add to this!

 

Thnx... Then mine is the full-stroke backlit... I take it that is what ya'll are referring to as the "emissive" style?

 

Yes... That is the full stroke backlit. I didn't know that there were different controllers. I'll have to start paying more attention to what controller works what!

 

Is there a trick to slipping the fat keyboard connector in? It goes below the brown hinge, not above right? i cannot seem to get it to "fit". And i don't want to break another,so is there a special technique or something?

/frustrated

 

The ribboon cable goes ABOVE the connector and then you GENTLY push down on the tabs on the brown shim. This forces the ribbon cable up to the contacts! Be GENTLE... If you break it you'll need a new motherboard!

When it is finished tuck the silver cover below the hinge, screw it down and then tuck the ribbon cable below the palmrests. (You'll see a space for them to be tucked into.)

Good luck and please post back how it goes.

 

yeeeah!
You sir are a gentleman and a scholar! I wished I had asked the first time around,it was an expensive mistake. but lesson learned. No beer.

Now to swap in the new motherboard!
thanx again!

 

Okay... Did you break the white plastic part? If not you can wedge a toothpick or something similar to make the connection.

Did you break the brown lever or did it just come "unsnapped" out of place?

You may not need a mobo!

 

A friend of mine broke the little brown thing on his, but only one side of where the brown thing attaches was actually broken OFF. We discovered that if you're very slow and careful, you can get the brown thing to stay in the locked position with only one side connected.

If you REALLY did a number on it and both sides are broken off then I think you're SOL!

 

Nah... (As long as it is only the brown lever that is broken!) You can still try wedging something under the ribbon cable. I wouldn't sell it like that without disclosing it but if it is a difference between having a non-working laptop and being able to fix it... I'd go with a flat toothpick and use a small flat blade screwdriver to push it under.

I changed a keyboard one time that had double stick tape holding the cable down. I yanked it up and it pulled off part of the white housing that holds the ribbon cable against the pins. The mobo is no good any more and I use it for parts. I guess I could pull a McGyver and revive it in an emergency but it wouldn't live up to the Toughbook name...

 

Well I was going to post asking how you make the keyboard brighter. The on another forum I found that it is the FN + F12. None of the manuals I have found have it listed, unless it was under some type of description and not in plain English, like MAKE KEYS BRIGHT!

I just found this website and think it is great.

BTW, can anyone tell me if my TB is modified. If I try to build one on Panasonic's website, based on what I have, I can not get the exact options. I bought it off of eBay and I think it was upgraded in some way.

CF-28
Win 2000 Prof SP4
Pent III - 800MHz
256MB Ram (252,192KB)
30 GB HD
Panasonic DVD-Rom /CD-R/RW Drive Pack Model CF-VDR281 (Although no decoder so I can not get DVDs to play, anyone know where to get a free player?)
Non-Rubber Backlit keyboard
Touchscreen
Internal GPS
It also came with a floppy with a cable so I can use both the floppy and the CD at the same time.

All in all I like it, use it every day because I did not want to use my new dell in my car at work (LE).

I think this maybe a standard set up, but like I said I can not get one to build the exact same on the website.

 

It sounds like the standard configuration for the ctssystems... toughbooks that were dumped on Ebay a month or two ago. Is that who you got it from? What is the full part number from the bottom of the unit? that will tell you the original config as it shipped from the factory. Not unusual for options to be added after the sale and not necessarily meaning it is modified.

 

Yes from CT Systems @ Asset Recovery Corp on ebay. Pretty happy with it. I had an old CF-25 I used for a while about 4 years ago that finally died a while ago.

the Model number is
CF-28PCJGEPMBKB I tried design one on the Toughbook website with those codes, and I can not get it to work. I guess it was a custom order that company, at least that is what I am thinking. And when I say modified, I mean that it was custom or a large order that is not the stock config that CF-28s ship with on one of their many base models.

In the Config Code the "C" means touch screen with standard keyboard, however mind is the chicklet, which should be options "F" or "U"

 

Keyboard swapping is probably the most common modification on the CF-28. However... To get the Emissive type keyboard to work with the CF-28 you need the keyboard light sensor installed. The rubber chicklet type will work on any CF-28, with or without the sensor. Most people don't know this when they buy the Emissive keyboard on ebay.

 

Mine has a light sensor right above the F4 key, and it will turn the lighting off when a flashlight is shined on it.

 

Then you should be able to use the Emissive keyboard without any problem.

 

PTR-Jason- All the ones that came from that vendor had the chicklet backlit keyboard. The chiclet is the one that is like a regular keyboard but with black keys and is also known as the LE backlit keboard,/Emissive backlit keyboard. I think you are right that it must have been a special order and they just added the BKB extension to the model number on the sticker this way they wouldn't have to edit the BIOS with the correct model number indicating the chiclet keyboard.

 

He should probably unscrew the little cover on the bottom and verify that the inverter board is present, too.

 

If those were ment for me. I already have the keyboard on the computer, it came that way. I was just posting to see if it was added to my computer, or came special order. Which I guess it came from the factory like that.

I first posted on here to find out how to turn the brightness up, but then after reading a few posts, found out that the combo of Fn+F12 (also the key with the image of a key with little light rays on it, just never knew what it was for). I may have pressed the key before, but being that I never seen the keys get any brighter (was not really paying attention) I just wrote it off and some other function.

Thanks for the info.

This is a great site I am glad I got the chicklet version as I heard the rubber ones are annoying at first, will hurt fingers, feel like sand paper and take a while to break in. Now to read all the pages of the GPS topic, so I can install a new tech GPS instead of using a USB gps.

The only thing I can not figure out is why the DVD drive will not work DVD playback, used to get an error that says the decoder is missing, but nothing now. I am also thinking that the DVD drive was added to enable the company to install programs that were on DVDs. But it was not something that was factory added, hince why it is missing the DVD playback program, OR someone reinstalled Windows 2000, and did not install a program to play DVDs. But this is all stuff for another topic, and I dont want to hijack this one.

 

I guess I'm misunderstanding the terminology. I thought people were talking about the rubber ones when they say "chicklet". I'll have to go to a candy store and get a box of chicklets to make sure I wonder if you can still get those?

 

Yes... Chicklets are still around.

The rubber chicklet style is one type... Then the black emissive illuminated is another. There is a 3rd that you don't see too often that looks like the rubber chicklet style but is actually plastic. It's pretty cool and types easily.

So far... The only one I know that DOES NOT require the sensor and PCB is the rubber chicklet type. If I have a CF-28 that has the rubber chicklet keyboard AND the sensor... I remove the sensor and PCB to use on another laptop that uses the emissive keyboard. The chicklet still works well without the sensor... And still adjusts...

I have also seen a few of the newer rubber types that are aftermarket. The keys are set up higher for easier typing but the F keys are not labeled... which sucks. I think heartlandsi.com is the one that sells this type. I have replaced a few of them for people who rely on the F keys being labeled.

 

maybe i've never seen this third type you mention. I know of the rubber backlit (and there are atleast two styles of those) and the full-stroke emissive-backlight ones. do you have a pic of the third kind?

The one that is in my 28 and the kind I prefer is the rubber one with the higher keys. All my keys are properly labelled though! I can't imagine anything so stupid as a keyboard with a blank row of function keys, i wonder what they were thinking.

 

I'm not at home now so I can't take a picture. When I get back home I'll post one...

 

I think you guys are confused but "chiclet" refers to the hard keys like most keyboards have. The chiclet gum has a hard candy coating and is shaped like the keys on a regular keyboard. The rubber backlit is not chiclet it is just called rubber backlit. Now the emissive or El keyboard also has chicklet keys because they are hard like the chiclet gum. I hope this clears things up a bit.

 

i think it just comes down to personal opinion.. i don't think panasonic ever officially defined the term "chicklet'

 

I have the Hard Chicklet key, backlit.

 

Well you can call a duck a dog if that is your opinion but it doesn't make the duck a dog does it?. Panasonic refers to the chiclet keyboard as one type and the rubber backlit as another on their configurator so I guess I would call that an official definition. And the chiclet gum does resemble the standard keys not the rubber membrane ones.

 

I was just going to post that. But I spent 5 min looking for the configurator on the Toughbook site and could not find it. I know I seen "Chiclet" on the website as describing the keyboard.

 

i never saw the term "chicklet" on the toughbook website.. i'll take another look to see where i missed it

 

Go to the configurator at www.config.toughbook.com/ and look up model number CF-28SUJGZKM then under the LCD and Keyboard drop down menu you will see all the different keyboard options. You will note that they do not offer a "Rubber Chiclet keyboard" No big deal but I think we should get the terminolgy correct to avoid any confusion. I think it was user "toughbook" that started calling the rubber keyboard a chiclet style and then everyone else followed.

 

Not to get off track here but you can check this out...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicklet_keyboard

It's funny... They say they call the rubber type "Dead Flesh" in the UK for the way it feels.

It appears I have found the name of the keyboards I have. They are the plastic chicklet type. So... There are the rubber keyboards... The chicklet keyboards and the emissive keyboards. (All illuminated) Then there are the two types of std keyboards... White and black.

 

Does anyone have an exploded view of or the answer to how to install the inverter and sensor plus wiring for an emissive type keyboard? Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

 

I've got some pics I can send you. I only have experience removing them, not installing, as I'm partial to the rubber kind It's all pretty straightforward, the only thing you might have difficulty with is fishing the little wires from the top of the computer to the bottom.

 

Please send me any pics you have of it. I am not sure of what all is involved. It does look straight forward from what I have seen of them but haven't seen any good pics to see everything. This is what the one looks like that I am getting. The delete key is broken but it comes with the stuff that is hard to get. If I want a new keyboard and don't mind "paying" for it that Toughbook-Gear seller on ebay has them for 115.00USD. Does that look like more than what is required for the keyboard inverter or does that look like what all is used?

 

Tell me if you can see these, I never checked to see if they're accessable by those that are not asubscribed to the yahoo group:

http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/toughbooks/photos/browse/c850

 

Speed... Is that a broken keyboard? What are you going to do with it? I fix them. (I have alot with missing/broken keys) The keys can be swapped if you are VERY careful! If you planned on throwing it away... I'll take it! (Or I can fix it for you)