CF-29 Cooling Mods

I recently picked up a 1.6ghz CF-29 Mk 4 and am running Ubuntu 9.10 Linux. I noticed the CPU temp was running much warmer than my 1.3Ghz model. I was running 50-55 degrees C while surfing and as high as 80-85 deg when playing chess. I checked the usual suspects and the cooling pads had fallen apart. I was unable locate OEM pads but found these items instead at frozencpu.com -

Fujipoly Premium System Builder Thermal Pad - Full Sheet - 150 x 100 x 1.5 - Thermal Conductivity 6.0 W/mK

Fujipoly Premium System Builder Thermal Pad - 1/4 Sheet - 150 x 100 x 0.5 - Thermal Conductivity 6.0 W/mK

I went ahead and replace the CPU pads with a little Arctic Silver and the 1.5mm pad above. Then on the the heat sink there are 2 rods that run along the case both sides of the CD/DVD bay. Those rods also have heat transfer pads - the thin ones. I replaced those with high efficiency 0.5mm pads along with artic silver. There whole case bottom gets warm now - so the heat gets distributed more evenly. Even when running a full load with chess and the machine running for several hours the hottest temp I could get was 71 deg C. The temp drops almost immediatlely after stopping the program to 48 to 52 degs. Overall the machine is running consistently at 45-48 deg C.

Also as an aside - the Windows thermometer program mentioned in several other posts does not seem to give an accurate temperature over time - it seems to give a start up temperature, but does not seem to update with load.
So all the temps above were done with the Linux temperature monitor.

I hope this helps anyone else in a similar predicament.

 

Hey...

Thanks for the tip. I placed an order and hope to have the same luck.

 

Your welcome glad I could help.

Also one detail I forgot to mention - when one removes the heatsink with the rods from the bottom; there is limited contact between the heatsink itself and the rods. They appear to be crimped in place on several areas. To increase the contact area and transfer of heat to the rods I placed a small amount of Arctic Silver in the crevices.

 

Good observation, I didn't even think about making the heatpipes have more efficient contact, makes allot of sense.

 

Good info to test... I'll be building a few this weekend!

Good job!

 

temp fix(thereifixedit) till I tear it down was pull battery/dvd/ and pc cards and leave the flaps open with a fan pointed @ battery/mp side. 95 deg F under gaming conditions.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k280/merc6/653e77b2.jpg

 

Gaming conditions? Isn't that like going past redline in a VW bug?

 

I was gonna say Dumptruck Racing, but... yeah.

mnem
*Owner of a Caddy 500-powered F-150*

 

didn't think about the heat pipe contact areas on the base plate, was just focusing on the cpu area and the other one. makes a lot of sense. I got a 350 chevy with a turbo 400 trans in a 4 door 81 volvo gl 240 with a 410 rearend Mr Dwagon..... wanna race?.......Driller

 

Heh - I had the same thing in a '80 Monza with 4.11 Ford 9" rear tubbed out for a pair of 15x12 Mickeys. I liked the Offenhauser Portosonic Dual-Plane best with that; the medium-rise Edelbrock just hit my 2400 stall torque converter too hard & made it want to stand up & do pirouettes. I had enough of that with the 4.57 rearend gears. I wish I'd just ONCE taken it to the track; I'm sure it could have given my 11-12 second 396-powered '68 Nova a good run. With that Offie, it was just solid pull and BAM! BAM!!! as it shifted and the car jumped forward. I used vacuum-operated cutouts in the exhaust so it'd be nice & quiet when I went hunting Corvettes; course, they'd lose me on the highway after I wound out at 6,000... but by the time I saw them, I was usually turned around & headed home.

mnem
*Remembering when he was 10 feet tall & bulletproof*

 

Thnks for the research and testing. I have placed an order today. I have a few Cf-29's that will get the mod done ASAP.

Thanks again-
N7QQU - Ken

 

made my order yesterday, same material, plus some more engenius cards for to put in a new home for unloved toughbooks. Mr Dwagon, I do believe where there's smoke, you can cook up a hell of a recipe for all sorts of pandamonium. reminds me of the joke where the sweet young thing married the rich old geezer that sat stuffing cotton up his nose and in his ears while placing three conundrums on the bed, as she inquired what was he doing, he responded there were two things he couldn't stand , the smell of burning rubber and to hear screams. that is why it's called a joke.......Driller, that's when the fight started

 

Aww, come on... I can't be the ONLY ONE who had a windshield washer tank full of Clorox to squirt on my tires and make the big smoke signals! :wink:

mnem
Smokin'.

 

How To Make Colored Tire Smoke

"I studied a lot of chemistry in college and we put together some pretty cool colored smoke screens that wouldn't start to smoke until heat was added and I think they'd work perfectly for burnouts. Here's some examples of the different combinations.

*This just for informational purposes!!*

Green smoke screen = potassium nitrate 20, red arsenic 20, sulfur flour 20, antimony sulfide 20, black powder FFF 20

Red smoke screen = combo #1 potassium chlorate 26, diethyaminorosindone 48, powdered sugar 26.
OR
combo # 2 potassium chlorate 27.4, methylaminoanthraquinone 42.5, sodium bicarbonate 19.5, sulfur flour 10.6

Yellow smoke screen = potassium chlorate 25, paranitraniline 50, lactrose 25, powdered sugar 20

Once again, this just for informational purposes ONLY!!!"

 

me thinks we all need to plan a road trip, Animal House, closer to reality than one might think, headed to Asheville NC with son and daughter in law and possibly one daughter. Trust me, it is a different kind of place, there is a local there that goes by name of Sister Bad Habit that rides around on a rickshaw(sp.?) didn't our illustrious leader make a trip to Asheville recently to visit a pawnshop that recently sold a cf-30 ? I believe Alan's pawn shop? hmmmmm.... rainbow tire smoke, you guys are really TOO MUCH!...Driller

 

Well...

Now we know EXACTLY what he was smokin'. And in what proportions. :wink:

mnem
Am I the only one amused by the fact that the DELL Campus in Round Rock,TX is bounded on one side by RED BUD LANE?!?

 

Need to save threads I need to return to! Hours of online gaming conditions that I was shocked this computer could handle. Haven't raced my car in quite some time. Auto crossed for a while and drag was just to see how well the open source tunes were. 13.5 @ 96 mph in a full leather automatic AWD 4 cyl was fun but addictive and expensive leaving my next route as full built awd tranny. Since being back in Cleveland I can't even drive my car w/o tearing something up due to the streets. Money for mods went to computers instead of coilovers, turbo swaps, tranny upgrades, and other items I would never get a chance to take advantage of or justify. As for burnouts, Have to be on snow or extreme slick conditions. I left RWD back in October 07 and went AWD route. Got tired of the whole D.C. snow storms and not being able to leave the parking spot.

/life story

What brand was the thermal paste?

 

Arctic Silver® 5

 

I like this one best, it has explosive propellant in it. Triple purpose too. Could be used to poison gophers.
First car a '61 sedan panel Ford Falcon. 170 c.i. three on the tree, black wheels and baby moons. Two inch lift in the rear. Second a '51 International FWD Fire Truck. I think a 230 c.i. straight 6, square geared tranny. Turn on all the lights and then hit the siren and the headlights would dim. If they had only known they wouldn't have put me in the thing driving and running a fire crew. Hit the brakes three time and you were free wheeling. What fun.
The red jeep has the greatest power/weight ratio, 304 AMC V8. And I found some 7.00 x 15 tires to make it look like a Jeep.
Sorry, couldn't help it.
I'm using Arctic Silver.

Jeff

 

had a two door falcon with the 170 six 3 on the tree, embarrassing performance. went to pass a tractor once and it pulled off and left me. my first car given to me by an Ialian chemist in research triangle park. but at least it would run. but it sure could put on a smoke show when you put it in reverse got a start then slammed it in first. the only way to spin the tires except when in mud. Artic Silver ceramic, can get it a Radio Shack or online a lot more for less, think I got 15 gm for 9-10 bucks. but am going to use the thermal fuji pads and A.S. soon to tone down the temps.....Driller

 

Saw it micro center and half the times it was same price or same as if I paid for rush shipping. MyQ9550 was only $190 after tax when everyone else was still selling it for like $265 new and $220 used online. I'll stop by later to price it. how fragile is the pad?

 

just finished the mod on one of my cf-29 mk 4's.was running higher temps sometimes got into 70's. watched a full episode on NCIS and then checked temps with CPUID highest temp was 61 cel within a minute got down to 54 range. seems to be a good bit warmer under the laptop now but lower temps, hdd was 41 cel. this unit had 880 hours but the lower plate looked like someone beat the health out of it. will monitr it over next couple of days to see if any further gains as perhaps the pads will better settle in. thanks, Driller

 

Reminds me of the lead filled apron at the driller's I mean dentist's office. Heavy for the size, reddish in color and fairly stable through repeated removals of the lid (bottom). I have a infamous Mark 5 that already had some aboard. Reacts to smooshing just like the gray only it's newer. On a Mark 3, 4 and 5 it lowered the temp though I don't have a record of the changes. I like it. I did not use Arctic Silver yet.

Jeff

 

I got it $19.99 @ micro center just waiting on my WiFi card and wondering where I can find pads if mine grenades on air contact.

 

Has anyone used this? Just trying to figure out if it was worth it.
17" ThermaPAK Black HeatShift Laptop Cooling Pad HS17A

What I am using now on desktop situations. Upside down could work for lap but haven't tried that yet.
Cooler Master NotePal U1 Notebook / Laptop Cooling Pad [Note Pal U1] - RM60.00 : Welcome to lps2u

 

I had done it my way some time ago: http://forum.notebookreview.com/panasonic/241496-against-heatproblem-cf-29-a.html

 

I went back with the thinner thermal material that I purchased from frozencpu and removed the heat pipe placed a layer against the base then a little artic silver ceramic in the cracks where it was crimped then overlaid it with the 0.5 thick thermal pad to seal it. in the media bay did A.S. there too and overlaid it in the channels to seal that in. the bottom plate gets real warm sometimes but the temps seem a good bit cooler when watching streaming videos and other cpu intensive ops. was worried if any of all this would "melt and flow" and whether or not it needed to be either taped over or like you did with hot glue or silicone sealer. will dissasemble eventually to see if it does flow.................Driller

 

i scraped off that think gray putty and used some artic silver seems fine for me

 

Only problem is that thermal paste won't fill the 1.5mm gap between the Cf 29's gpu/cpu and the heat sink. A pad or putty is used to fill the large gap. The heat sink does not make direct contact with the gpu/cpu like on a desktop.

 

Booboo -

Umm... Yeah. You're now relying on only the heatsink underneath the MB for all your CPU's cooling; it may survive so far, but not for long.

Replace the thermal pad; no matter what your momma may have toldya, yer not smarter than the engineers who designed this beast to survive deployment with our Troops in the Middle East...

mnem
Sheep grenades. Need I say more?

 

Just for S&G sake eventually pull the bottom and see if the sink and paste is touching. The cpu and gpu aren't an easy swap.

 

well i ordered some pads but when I did put the artic on I was thick not skimpy but I will take it apart again ad look later this week when I do get the pads.

I wish i'd have kept some of the thick paste in the tubes that would have worked.

 

Any paste in a tube will not fill that gap and work correctly. Paste is made to fill minor imperfections, such as less than a thousandth of an inch. 1.5mm is a 1/16th of an inch. In the case of thermal paste less is better, more is bad.

 

the paste filled the gap and when i took it off it was on the heatsink and still on the cpu/gpu, but i put some of the original putty on it and closed it up so the gap is not what people think it is.

but when my pads gets here I am going to redoo them again.

 

why is there even a gap I wonder? Is it to prevent damage to the chip in case of shock? I was thinking a 1/16th square of copper would do wonders for conductivity.

As far as filling gaps with paste, I thought about it, however thermal conductivity and density sometimes go hand in hand, and the putty sure is denser.

hmm...i'll have to mix myself some copper dust and silicone grease perhaps. Just try not to smear it on exposed circuit boards

 

I would say for several reasons.
1. shock
2. heat and cooling expansion and contraction
3. variances in boards and chips
4. ease of case disassembly
5. solid connection, dent in base means trashed motherboard

 

We've kindof hashed this over about a zillion times in here; my thoughts are best represented here:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/panasonic/471523-best-way-apply-thermal-compound-2.html#post6080827

http://forum.notebookreview.com/panasonic/471523-best-way-apply-thermal-compound-2.html#post6079002

Just don't do it.

mnem
Thermo-active.

 

Most heat sink paste is a mix of silicone gel with ceramic and metal particles in suspension. I have serious doubts that your homemade attempt at bettering this formulation would be successful, but please report back to the group with your results.

 

not to beat a dead horse, but what would be the effect of adding a bit of dental silver to mix in an existing material like the fujipolymer as an extra ingredient, minus the mercury of course, which is a better thermal conductor copper or silver? or are they about the same. ha ha,............Driller

Never look a gift horse in the mouth, teef loook fine!

 

Usually aluminum oxide or 2 other types of ceramics. It really wouldn't be too hard to improve the thermal conductivity of that formulation, be it w/graphite impregnated gel/grease or metal dust. Electrical conductivity of these home brew suspensions is probably the reason why they're avoided in circuitry.

I'm almost positive brake pad grease is graphite and some high temp grease....and I think I've seen the copper variant before. Issues of capacitive resistance were brought up by some one else, although I can't think how...(i'm a Mech. Eng, not electrical).

 

Hi,
My dad always said if it's not broke, it dont need fixing and someone spent a lot of time to do it like that so way change it. What I'm trying to say is that if there was a flexible playdoh on the cpu and gpu to start with then leave it alone. People got payed a lot of money just to put that piece of putty on there. On my cf-29 it was cracked ,I rolled it a bit together and placed it back where it was. Ive had no problems.
Perhaps Im just a lucky son of a gun or just apprieciate the effort someone else has already made in tackling the problem of heat.
Cheers

 

Your advice is generally good, but "leave it alone" is not something that we do well here...

If we were to accept everything that the OEM says as immutable fact, my CF-29 would not exist as is and we would have thrown all these old CF-18,27,28,29 and 30's in the trash and replaced them with brand new Toughbooks!

Keep in mind that advances in technology come along everyday, including cooling, but Panasonic's development for some of the older machines stopped years ago.

 

I have just gotten a mk5 1.6, and was trying to play diablo 2 with my son. My computer kept lagging badly, to the point of it being unplayable. Turns out, that as it heated up it would throttle the CPU. This computer is basically brand new, less than 1000 hours, so I thought the thermal pads should have been fine.

I went to frozencpu and ordered the 1.5mm and .5 mm pads, 7W/mk, and some arctic silver. I removed the heatsink/heatpipe assembly. I filled in the areas between the heatpipes and heatsink plate with the arctic. There were quite a few gaps here. I added the new pads, and put arctic between the pipes and the grooves they were in.

I can now run 100% cpu, and it does not throttle at all. I just wanted to bring this back up, because even a like new laptop can be improved.

PS: Save money and buy the thin strips of material, One strip will be enough to do at least 3 of these, but you will need both sizes.

 

you'll notice the bottom of the computer will get a bit warm with this mod. so many other laptops have fans and "cooler devices" that increase air flow and with the cf-29's fanless design and sealed system that you'll be upwards on the high side of 20K hours on the clock where others may not last. note the rubber feet on the bottom that set the bottom off whatever it may be sitting on to allow heat escape. the whole toughbook design is a heat sink. again a remarkable little laptop. watch out, cause you will be acquiring a LOT more toughbooks. the cputhermometer app seems to be upgraded to where it keeps an accurate on the run temp reading while using it. it didn't do this when first started with it a year or so ago. it is a free app. you may want to try it and see if it works as it seems to do for me..Driller

 

CPU Thermometer Free Download

 

TopCop is always on top of the situation, I salute you! Driller

 

I guess I should mention that any of these mods will work better if you go to Radio Shack and buy some of those stick on rubber feet to raise your Toughbook a 1/4 inch off the work surface. This will let air flow over the bottom plate/heatsink and improve the level of sound available from the down firing speaker. Cheap and effective!

 

funny how a 1/4 inch can make you hear better. any hearing issues out there?..Driller

 

WHAT DID YOU SAY?

 

A question for Rich:

You specified the full (300x200mm) sheet of 1.5mm Fujipoly in your description. Did you use the full sheet to do a single laptop or would a quarter sheet be sufficient?

Regards,
George