Different CF19 batteries

Just want to discuss the different batteries for a CF 19.

CF VZSU48--Blue tab...10.65v--- 5.7Ah
CF VZSU48U---Blue tab--10.65v--- 5.7Ah
CF VZSU50---Green tab...Hazardous Location battery---Reported by web site as for mk1-mk4
CF VZSU48CJS--Orange tab--Japan only ..CF-19 mk6 later??...-10.65v--5.7Ah
CF VZSU58U..Yellow tab--11.1v---5.6Ah--For mk4 and later?-Sold with laptop only not sold separately.
CF VZSU50W..No label info found yet..
CF-VZSU48R.. China Only---10.65V---5.7Ah
CF-VZSU48JS...No label info found yet..
Info is from battery labels.....
Interesting that some Ebay sellers are selling new in box batteries CF-VZSU48U on box, but battery says CF-VZSU48--NO U...

 

This is the one that also came with my MK5

 

I am wondering if the difference in many of these is the quality of the cells...
The CF VZSU58U..Yellow tab, may be cheaper cells compared to CF VZSU48U..Blue tab-- Sort of similar to starter cartridges for printers..
The CF VZSU48R..China only may have Chinese made cells....

I really have no idea. I am just guessing. That's a lot of trouble to make so many different batteries with the same capacity.

 

Anyone have these "odd" batteries to compare..Please post photos....
I am curious about any physical differences...For example, will a standard CF-VZSU48 fit in a Hazardous Location UL1604 machine?
Panasonic info program gives some battery info also....Posting that would be great......
I will compare my two well used batteries later today and post the info....

 

Yes, it will.
All CF-VZSU58U (yellow tab) I've seen - up to 10pcs - had very significant wear, about 50%. And even after recalibration they worked 30-60 minutes in real life. Bad batteries, do not buy them.

Also I have one dead CF-VZSU48, but they are really good usually.
This one is dead


All of these are very good

 

Thanks for the photos...
I have two batteries one a CF-VZSU58 and the other is a much older CF-VZSU48....
My experience is the same. The CF-VZSU58 does not hold up. The CF-VZSU48 is somewhat better, but showing it's age..
This sort of confirms my suspicions that the CF-VZSU58 uses cheaper Chinese cells...


Want to cut open any dead ones and see what brand cells are inside?

 

"Want to cut open any dead ones and see what brand cells are inside?"

ladies and gentlemen ... place your bets ...

 

310 grams
310 grams
312 grams
313 grams
One of the batteries came out of this box yesterday.
Sorry no odd ones. The oldest is the one with the Japanese characters. (might not be oldest but is the most worn.

 

By weight....Fascinating idea...
I don't have a precision scale to try that...I DO know the lady at the Post office quite well though....Hmm

From my post in the CF19 FAQ..it tells you how to get the battery born on date with Panasonic info viewer....

From Panasonic info viewer..
Battery ID.
the last number on the line is the date code: in my case 111006xxxxx which stands for 2011.10.06 (6th of Oct).

Can you post a higher resolution photo? No big deal if you can't..

 

weight is a good non-invasive way to attempt to determine *what's inside* .
i would not put it past the knock off manufacturers to add some scrap steel , lead or spent uranium as ballast to bring the weight up to *spec* .

a little consumer psychology history ...
maaany years ago there was a company (that shall remain nameless) that built very good audio amplifiers and receivers ... quality was not an issue .
the problem : the units were not selling all that great ... to the point of bankruptcy looming on the horizon .
as a last effort , they called in a "design specialist" ...
he looked the unit over and told them he would have something to say the next day .
the next day at the confab he presented the unit , told the president and staff/officers that they had an excellent product , good quality , a reasonable selling price and a nicely styled *package* .
... however ...
he went on to say that the problem with the unit having lack of "customer appeal" was due to one thing only ...
he then presented two identical units and told those present to come up and pick up "this unit", pointing to one of them .
all in turn picked up the designated unit and basically said "we know what the unit feels like all too well ... this is not a revelation" .
the "design specialist" then had them pick up the second identical unit ...
all commented in some manner , how much heavier that unit was .
the design guy then asked them : "which one would you buy if you were the customer ?" .
they responded that it would be the second unit .
the guy asked them : "why is that ?".
the consensus was that it "felt better and more expensive ..." .
the guy opened up the second unit and showed them the answer ; a 10 pound steel plate attached to the bottom cover of the chassis .
the "redesigned" units sold very well and the company went on to produce some of the finest audio equipment for many years .

 

I don't know a gram from a cubit, but V has a cool fairly accurate scale in the kitchen.
I don't do metrics either.....watch your email.

 

grams ARE metric......Just saying...

 

I have 2 of these batteries. One of them has 10% wear and the other has 0% wear. I get almost 4 hours on the first one and around 6 hours on the other. I am running some tests on them now and will give you a little more info when I am done.

 

Made a mistake. I only have 1 of these..
CF VZSU58U
Full charge - 55,940
Charge index - 75
Battery wear - 10%

CF-VZSU48
Full charge - 65,330 of 65,880
Charge index - 10
Battery wear - 0%

CF-VZSU48
Full charge - 65,300 of 65,880
Charge index - 23
Battery wear - 0%

 

Just for the record, can you post the born on dates.?

For example from my CF52 that I am using now..
Panasonic Info viewer...
Battery tab
Last line..
Battery ID CF-VZSU29A 06092700979---This battery was born on 2006-09-27...That's Sept,27,2006
Battery...

 

CF-VZSU58
full charge capacity..57890
charge index 43
battery date Oct, 26, 2010
battery health.............. 93.1%....

CF-VZSU48
full charge capacity..62530
charge index 10
battery date May, 27, 2008
battery health 100 %

Here is a tip..
Download PC info viewer for a CF19 mk8..It's newer version... version 8... The download for CF19 mk4 is version 6.

 

Are you talking to ME? Sounds like a M$ program. There may be one here somewhere.
If I get M$ up on a CF-19 I'll give it a go.

Thanks for your good work,

J'd...CF-19MK2- MakuluLinux-9.......'cause I like it...

Presently on a GPS thing with MAK-9....this may take a while...hopeful....

 

Jeff,
The references to the later PC info viewer was for anyone and everyone...
Born on date is also for anyone and everyone..
I want to see the wear rate or battery health compared to age....I think the VZSU58 batteries have a shorter lifespan.

 

hmmm ...
there are a few variables involved with the "life span" of any rechargeable cell/battery .
temperature and rate of charge seems to be at the top of the list .
when it is charged (percentage of charge remaining) is also a factor .
i'd hazard that *somewhere* there is a comprehensive book of data on those battery packs that deals with this issue ...
most likely locked away in a safe .

 

For the curious types
1 cubit =45.72 centimeters
1g= 0.03527396oz
So something could be both 1 gram and 1 cubit..

Larry,
I feel the issue I am investigating is more due to the quality of the cells used during manufacture. I'm sure Panasonic has a document, but they won't even keep a BIOS update posted for end users so I am not holding my breath.

 

I will check my date code on my 19 batteries when I get home but I agree with Shawn now. What we need is a dead one to check the cells.

 

Barrmaley may have one....

 

yep ... i understand about researching the initial build quality .
this is why it may be a bit misleading to compare batteries/cells that you do not know the true history of .
for example , a high quality battery with super-suds cells that has been *abused* (i.e. run down and left in that state for long periods) may show lower life span/charge density , etc . than a *cheapo* that has not been *abused* , given approximately the same number of hours in service .

think : two 283 CID V8 engines brand new and put into service at the same time , in identical vehicles .
one is purchased by a 18 year old kid with a lead foot , the other is purchased by a little old lady that travels the same amount of miles as the young kid in the given time frame .
tear down the engines and determine the amount of wear .
as far as which engine is is better condition , i know who i would place my money on if i were a betting man .

 

Good points, but the former usage is a factor I can not control.....
I can control whether I buy batteries with known cheap cells....
Good cells will handle abuse better than cheap cells won't they?

 

yes they will ... absolutely .
about the best thing to do is grab a couple of each type of toasted batteries and rip them open .
hopefully the cells will have some identifying markings that can be researched .

 

Now you're talking....

 

"hopefully the cells will have some surviving identifying markings that can be researched ."
CFA

 

Well, It seems I have a VZSU58 to disect...
Mine has been sitting on the table for 7-10 days..I know it had 75 to 100% charge...
I just put it in a CF19 and the RED light was on at 0% charge.....
It be junk if it can't hold a charge for a week sitting outside the laptop.
Now I need a standard VZSU48 to disect and compare.

 

When I am not using my 30's or 19's I pull the battery out and sit it on top of it...sometimes for weeks and never had one go dead. Something must of been wrong with that battery for sure.

 

That's my conclusion..It's junk...
The one in the CF19 sitting in backseat of my truck was charged the same time as this one.
The one IN the laptop had a 40% charge today when I booted it. That seems similar to your results Blair.

 

I opened the VZSU58 today. It pried open without needing a Dremel.
The cells are coral-orange in color....
The only marking is the letters OIMZT3D...under that is a date or serial number, as it is different on each cell.
Nothing on the cell says Panasonic or Sanyo..

 

those could be "in house" numbers .
many manufacturers use this type of coding for inventory control .
they could be sanyo cells but this fact is obscured by non-branding and in house numbers as per contract .
manufacturers do this in order to protect their investment and maintain QC .

 

Well I guess I will need to take one apart. I will see if I have a different model number. I think I have a CF-18 battery that's shot. Think I will check that out too.

 

A little arithmetic will tell capacity; 11.1V/3.7V = 3 cells, so there's 2x3 cells in series. With an average of 5,450 mAh that means ~2,725 mAh per cell. Since there's no such capacity it is most like the Sanyo UR18650ZT 2800mAh.

There's 6600 types for replacement, but these are a bit ... untrustworthy. Panasonic itself makes 3400 mAh these days, which would make a good replacement; charge/de-charge voltage is identical. Make sure to measure length first; there's 65mm and 67mm types, the latter have soldered-on pcb with protection circuit. Most laptop batteries don't use or need these; separate controller circuit in the pack.

Ordered a score with tabs; a lot easier to solder. Sans tabs is a bit cheaper, but you'll have to sand the ends a bit and use a good flux. Also a good idea to de-charge the new cells before soldering (deplete with flash light, say), that will keep capacity loss due to soldering minimised.

 

Figure I would bring this thread back to the top. Did we ever find out who made the batteries inside ? I took two apart but nothing on them. There was marking on it like Shawn but mine was very faint.

 

I never figured out any more information.
Other than Panasonic uses DIFFERENT cells of the same size in the different batteries.
The battery I took apart was a battery that came with a CF19 when new. You can not buy this battery alone.
I still think they use cheap batteries for the "starter battery" The retail batteries use better cells.
I am sure Panasonic uses different cells depending on what country the battery is going to.

 

"starter battery"

this is not an uncommon or unheard of practice that extends to other areas/products .
a prime example is the inks that come with a brand new printer ... inkjet and/or toner types .
even the toys made for kids use the same technique ...
if you are old enough to remember the mattel (brand) "thing maker" or "creepy crawlers" you'll remember that the amount of "working fluids" that came with a brand new unit ran out quickly .
(as an aside , our tastebuds were more tolerant then as well)
you could purchase refill kits (locally or mail order) that contained a larger volume of product for a reasonable price .

 

Made a guide, in case batteries with higher capacity or cheaper replacements are desirable:

Guide: replacing and upgrading laptop batteries

 

Great job on the guide.