HELP- Re: Bought potentially stolen CF-29 - Legal issues.

The key word is POTENTIALLY.

Last week, I purchased a MK-II CF-29 laptop off of eBay...

TBtech29 indicated that the model number indicated that it had several options specific to Verizon, including an RF/Cellular modem. (This feature has been removed; No sled above the battery door.)

The price was right about average, the seller communicated well about the options, and this guy also had lots of other laptop and computer equipment up for sale like many other computer sellers on eBay. The deal seemed like business as usual.

So the laptop came in the mail and powered up and it was all good.




Here's where it gets fishy:

Windows is registered to "vMobile" company, "Verizon Communications"...

There is also a program installed that measures Cell phone signal strength, proprietary to Verizon.

There is a hidden partition on the hard drive to image restore the laptop, this partition has these programs on it.

The Serial Number is not present on the bottom, although neither are any other paper stickers... I got the serial number from BIOS.

The power adapter is NOT OEM Panasonic. Rather it's for an IBM Thinkpad. The voltage is right, so the laptop powers up, but missing accessories is kinda indicative of a smash and grab, IE from a Verizon Tech's van.



On a whim, I called Heartland Services, Inc. They do NOT have this system in their records.



I also called Verizon Communications and Verizon Wireless'es corporate security departments. I volunteered my contact info and home address as well as the address on the shipping package the laptop came in and the user ID that I bought the computer from. I also gave my suspicions above to the investigator.

I just got a call back from one of the investigators.

While they DO NOT have the serial number in their records, but they want me to bring the laptop in to a Verizon store because they do BELIEVE it's stolen. The store manager will ship it to a lab where a forensic analysis will be done to see who the laptop belonged to within the company.

The excuse is that because Verizon is such a large company. It's difficult to tell if it is indeed stolen based off of the information I provided. Additionally, their records are disorganized and thefts aren't always reported.



That in and of itself sounds fishy.

1.) Am I under ANY obligation to send the laptop to Verizon or a third party (Law Enforcement) without proof that it is indeed their property?

2.) Can analysis get anything if the hard drive has been re-imaged with the on-drive hidden restore partition? Also, should I negotiate just sending in the hard drive? I plan on upgrading the drive anyway, so I won't miss that if it gets damaged/lost. If the laptop does indeed come up as stolen, I'll remove my new drive and send the rest of the machine in.

3.) How can I guarantee that they return the laptop or the monetary value of said laptop should it be damaged in the process of this investigation? (If it's NOT stolen.)


The investigator is based at the Verizon headquarters in New Jersey, coincidentally, that's where the origin address on the package is.



If it does indeed end up being stolen, I paid using my credit card through PayPal... If PayPal doesn't get my money back, Visa will... I hope...

I think Verizon should have better record of the serial numbers and what property IS theirs and which has been sold off...

I am fully cooperating and would love to get a scammer behind bars, but I'm not about to ship off an $800 laptop to some schmuck on a whim.

 

I'm pulling my Rubberized keyboard, CD-RW/DVD combo drive, and RAM from it tonight. I've still gotta decide if I wanna just part with the meat and potatoes of it without any guarantee that I'll see it again.

 

Verizon doesn't keep track of thefts or report them, or which serial numbers were issued to which employees? Give me a break. If they don't care then I don't see why you should.

 

Having a conscience and having a vague curiosity on religion kinda sucks sometimes.

 

even if it IS stolen, keep in mind that the person who sold it to you didn't necessarily steal it. he very well may have bought it from someone else.

other than that, i don't really see why you are going out of your way to do this... you aren't helping any specific person. if anything, any good that comes out of this will go straight to verizon corp...

 

If they didn't have any records of it being stolen over the phone, I would just keep it. Obviously they don't care enough.

Plus if you send it in, who knows what they will find when they get it back... They might just keep it because they want to.

 

It's great that you're trying to do the right thing, but from what you've told us it doesn't sound like Verizon has much of a clue about what they would do with it when they got it anyway. I'd get something from them in writing about why they think it's stolen in the first place, what they're going to do, how long it will take, and what they would do if they did determine it was stolen from them to help you get your money back. Otherwise, they might just let it sit on a shelf for months, and since you don't know if it's stolen or not during that time I don't think you could get your money back.

PS: Thanks for accusing me of having no conscience, that really made my day.

 

Tell the Verizon emplyee to file a police report and then give you a case number. Then call your local PD and ask for advice on what to do with it. They may want to take it in as evidence or they may not even care. I think you opened a big can of worms by calling Verizon but what's ddone is done now you may have lost the laptop and your money. Once you get a copy of the police report then you can request a chargeback through paypal or your credit card. The best policy sometimes is "don't ask don't tell"

 

BINGO!! Exactly what I would say too. I am very religious so I understand your conflict, but that does NOT mean you need to stick your head out to get smacked either. I applaud your forthcomingness, and willingness to cooperate, but I have to agree with trwrt. If THEY were on the up-and-up, THEY would be telling YOU it was stolen. It sounds too fishy on both their parts (the seller and verizon). I don't see how they can get anything off of that hard drive to tell them what tech had it... come on. This isn't hollywood. They are a big enough company, and these machines were too expensive for them to NOT have databases of serial numbers AT LEAST. Get what trwrt said... IN WRITING and before you send anything to them. If they want to pursue it, they can go through your local PD and based on what you have done so far, they will be on YOUR side. Sleep in peace, you've done the right thing so far. Just don't go on a tangent with them, and don't threaten them with anything. Just simply say you want it all in writing before you do anything else. Be the cool head.

 

Here is what you do... PERIOD!

Call Heartland.... They have no record? Call Panasonic! If they have no record then, as I see it, you are in the clear. 99% of ALL companies will call one or both of them to report stolen laptops as they know that there is a good chance that someone will call them about something.

On the one hand I'd say that you are over reacting... On the other it does sound weird that there s proprietary info on the drive. I would assume that they would wipe it prior to disposal.

Have you contacted the seller to ask where they got it from? I definitely WOULD NOT ship it off without getting a refund. If you ship it off and it is stolen or someone makes a claim of some sort... You are aout all the money you paid. You may recoup some of it but I doubt you'd get it all back.

Just my two cents.

 

Oh, and one last thing... send me a copy of that cellular signal software

I'm curious if it works with any of my CDMA hardware.

 

Pele' -

Ummm.... DOOD. I appreciate that you feel a conscientious need to return stolen property; this is rare enough in today's dog-eat-puppy world. However, the LEGAL and MORAL obligation here is REASONABLE CARE. You took reasonable care in the purchase; you took more than reasonable care after the fact to verify with the MFR AND with the company you believe the property MAY have been stolen from.

If they cannot verify that the serial # you gave HAS BEEN STOLEN... or that it EVER WAS from their company... then you have no obligation to surrender it to them based on some "investigator's suspicion." If you REALLY don't care about the hard drive, then by all means send it to them... but remember that even THAT really is "above & beyond" any obligation you have, either legally or morally.

For all you know, the laptop could have been acquired off-lease or departmental closing wholesale sell-off or asset liquidation (most likely scenario, actually) and they no longer have it in inventory BECAUSE it's been sold off. Another potential case its that the hard drive IS from a Verizon Co laptop, acquired again from wholesale sell-off or asset liquidation, but the laptop itself is not. In my experience, laptops received in this fashion often have NOTHING with them; and often are cannibalized for parts (RAM, HARD DRIVE,COVERS,etc) to keep remaining inventory up & running, or to keep potentially sensitive data out of general circulation.

Bottom line; I would NOT surrender the laptop to the morons at the Verizon Store; if you're lucky, there will be ONE person there with an IQ higher than fudge, and he will NOT be management or anyone who is in any way qualified to receive or provide proper chain-of-custody for YOUR vaulable property.

If you DO take it to the Verizon Store as requested, there is about a 1 in 10 chance that anybody who knows anything will be in any way involved with you or your precious baby; and the most likely scenario is it will sit on a shelf in some middle manager's office until it is forgotten,uncovered, sat on, lost, found again, fed to the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal, buried, found yet again, then... you guessed it... sold off at auction as part of an asset liquidation directive.

Whereupon, after it changes hands two or three times, you will ultimately be able to bid on it on... eBay.

mnem
DON'T
PANIC

PS - If you work at the Verizon Store and take offense to the preceding statement, Congratulations! YOU are the 10th person!

 

I think it was my laptop, so you should send it to me and I will perform forensic testing to verify it is mine.

I can see some douchebag at Verizon getting his coworker to call you posing as a company investigator to score a nice laptop. I wouldn't even send the drive. Verizon isn't in the business of "forensic analysis" of data on storage devices. The cost of that service by a third party would probably exceed the laptop's worth. Law enforcement wouldn't even do that unless there were larger forces at hand (DEA investigations, child ****, etc.)

My cf-29 came with an IBM adapter. I think they are more common than the Panasonic adapters, and alot of the Toughbooks acquired from company sales probably don't have the chargers with them. No harm no foul there.

Upgrade the drive to a new one and lose the old one. If you still have a moral issue, get a refund from the seller and find another Toughbook.

Just my 2 cents,

fstik

 

I've had to get irritated with Verizon AND Sprint store employees before. I think the guy at the sprint store might fear me after I showed him my completed flattened "used to be a brick phone, but now looks half as thin as a razr" Nokia that I put in a 40 ton press after they screwed me on one too many bills.

 

LOL. I didn't mean that... Although I don't know you.

I meant there are some people who wouldn't give it a second thought. I am not one of those people.

 

Welp, it's confirmed, neither Panasonic nor Heartland have it reported as stolen.

It has never graced Heartland Services, Inc with it's presence so they don't even have a record of it.

I'm keeping it until they pry it outta my cold, dead, hands...

I inquired about registering it with Panasonic so that if it's ever stolen from my possession, that I can have it confiscated. They said that can only be done by the original purchaser.

 

LOL

If you REALLY want to keep your machine, I suggest Lojack for Laptops. At 40 bux a year, it REALLY IS cheap insurance.

http://www.lojackforlaptops.com

mnem
Heh! I FOUND IT!

 

When I got my two CF-25's from the local dump they still had all the police software on it... dispatch stuff, programs to run plates... it all needed to be connected to a proprietary wireless to work tho