Introducing the new "Toughman"

it's included with the following retired cop car on eBay:

Ford : eBay Motors (item 320528774388 end time May-14-10 17:11:05 PDT)

 

Too bad it has a CF-28... He could get more it it had a CF-29!

 

" In short, the only thing you are missing is decals and radar."

Oh, and lawful authority and a badge....

 

"All lights are currently green and yellow to comply with ebay and as can be seen in video: www.youtube.com/khopits"

I guess I need to adjust the color on my screen, as they appear Red and Blue to me.

"Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges!" -"El Bandido", from Treasure of the Sierra Madre.

You don't need "lawful authority" or "a badge" to scare the bejesus out of the traffic violators with the image! :wink:

Just DO NOT turn on those " Green and Yellow" lights or the siren!!!

Seriously, when I used to drive my 2003 Mercury Marauder down the highway NO ONE would drive past me!

Finally, in all seriousness, it would be difficult to assemble this package for the "Buy It Now" price.

 

Apparently our view of police impersonators varies, as does state law. And on a personal note, I am not a big fan of posers. Being the police is like being pregnant, you either are or you are not.

Nevertheless, you can not run RADAR on US Highways without one of two things, FCC issued license or a badge.

Green and Yellow colors are restricted in some states, as is a vehicle " equipped" with those lights or a siren. It matters not in many states whether they are in use, or not.

In Georgia and South Carolina this farce would be a great way to get a ride in a real police car... YMMV

 

In Texas, to be convicted of "Impersonating a Public Servant" the suspect must make an overt attempt to get a person to "to submit to his pretended official authority or to rely on his pretended official acts". Misperception of what another person believes when they see such a vehicle, without any direct interaction between observer and vehicle operator, does not rise to that level.

Actually, to be totally correct it would be "FCC issued license or a badge and an FCC license."

Police radar operation falls under the LEO's FCC licensure of the communications department.

As in most cases, it is up to "officer's discretion" as to whether or not charges woulld be filed in such a case.

Equipped but not operating: "Boy, go straight home and take those things OFF!"

Equipped AND operating: "You have the right to remain silent..."

There again, "officer's discretion" probably prevails. You sure don't want to commit the offense of "P.O.P."!

 

Not exactly true, there are ways of bending the rules and again, it can be up to a matter of interpretation by the officer. Yes, it is illegal to jam radar (a definite FCC no-no), but just operating one is not necessarily illegal.

Radar units may be used, under FCC Rules and Regulations Part 90, by anyone with a legitimate need to measure the speed of objects or vehicles.

Now, convincing an officer that the radar you usually use to check the speed of fast balls on a diamond is the same one you have mounted on your dash is another thing entirely. As far as the lights, forward/rearward facing blue and forward facing red are illegal in pretty much every state, but again, it all depends on the veracity of the LE forces as to whether you will get busted. I have seen many a ricer running around with blue and red lights (either neon or LED) and wonder how they get away with them on, strobes too. I have been driving ex-police cars for years and they have kept me out of more tickets than a radar detector ever thought of doing. However, you will never find strobes/red/blue lights or a siren of any kind on my vehicles. Plus, I have never used my vehicle to infer I was with LE to pull someone over....although there were a couple of times I "influenced" a driver as they were really doing something stupid that could have easily resulted in injury or death to some innocent bystander or driver.

 

I can has RADAR?

mnem
DILLIGAF?

 

I see we have another Kevin Bloody Wilson fan in the house

 

I have read Section 37.11 and I think it should be pointed out that everything in red is just your legal theory on the enforcement of this law as it is certainly not a part of the statue. Oddly enough, as we discussed earlier, I am studying to challenge the Texas CLEOSE exam.

Nope, everything I said is totally correct. FCC licenses are issued to the agency, not to individual officers.

Most all law allows discretion on the part of the arresting officer as to whether an arrest is made, CDV being a notable exception. But while we are quoteing Texas law at one another, I call your attention to: Sec. 547.305. RESTRICTIONS ON USE OF LIGHTS. (c) A person may not operate a motor vehicle equipped with a red, white, or blue beacon, flashing, or alternating light unless the equipment is;" and goes on to list lawful exceptions. Go here for the details: TRANSPORTATION CODECHAPTER 547. VEHICLE EQUIPMENT

There is word is " equipped," not operating. Therefore nothing I said is any less then totally correct.

While we are chatting, I see where you are a "retired Texas Air Guard Security Police and USAF Base Honor Guard," but have you ever been a law enforcement officer working for a State or Local government?

I love a good debate , but make no bones about it, I am an expert at what I do and when contradicted like to know who I am debating with.

I said. " Nevertheless, you can not run RADAR on US Highways without one of two things, FCC issued license or a badge. "

However if someone can convince an officer that they were playing baseball in the middle of the Highway, or that you park your RADAR equipped Crown Vic behind the plate at ball games to measure fast balls, you might have something, but I would most likely be taking that person to jail.

For two reasons, you are interfering with my traffic operations if you are running RADAR anywhere I am and people impersonating law enforcement endanger us all and make my job harder. SilverTrooper I do not see you as this sort.

Honestly guys, I have not worked traffic for years, I don't even like traffic, that does not mean I am not good at it. But the bottom line is that you can not play with many of these toys without taking the vow of poverty...

 

Oh how I love a good fencing match! Azrial, I understand your points very well, insomuch as I have much the same feelings as you do, however in different subject areas. In those areas that I do have the expertise, I take exception not offense, to those that are trying to make a point based upon either partial or incorrect logic/facts. I have been around the LE field in one manner or another for enough years that I have a working knowledge of many subjects, but I am by no means a subject matter expert and know well enough when to yield the floor....As you stated, I am not the sort to step in without legitimate powers of arrest and try to quell what I perceive as an illegal/dangerous situation. I have in the past been in situations where I felt compelled to do something as I am also one who cannot sit idly by in certain situations and do nothing. On more than one occasion I have been on the interstate and either used the CB or cell phone to contact the authorities (usually the HP) as someone was doing something very illegal, very stupid or both. I treat having a retired police car in much the same way as I do having a concealed weapons permit, yes I can go so far (much more so considering the use of deadly force with the CWP), but you have to know when your authority as a private citizen ends and you have to call in the cavalry. In the end I follow two main points, one, you do not use legal advice based upon what "he/they said" and no matter how much you are a "wannabe", you "ain't".

 

And what I wrote is also correct, as both the badge and the FCC license actually belong to the LE agency.

You have just hit on a sore spot with me, as despite those statutes we have literally thousands of private highway construction vehicles here "equipped with" and "operating" those "Hide-Away' strobes in the headlights and taillights, all emitting sequential flashing lights.

And the law enforcement action taking against these violators? NADA, NICHTS; ZIP; ZILCH!!!

Beginning in 1982: municipal police officer, deputy sheriff sergeant, chief deputy constable, elected constable. I hold a TCLEOSE Advanced Texas Peace Officer License (Master had not yet been created when I left civilian law enforcement),TCLEOSE Instructor License, TCLEOSE Firearms Instructor License, NRA Law Enforcement Firearms Instructor Certification, NRA Law Enforcement Select-Fire (Assault Rifle/Submachine Gun) Instructor Certification, certified in TX Traffic Law Enforcement by TXDPS Safety Education, etc., etc., etc.

[Engage Humor Mode] "Never claim to be an `expert', because an "ex" is a has-been and a `spurt' is a drip under pressure!" [Humor Mode disengaged]

Another legal reason to "run RADAR on a roadway": Traffic Survey.

QED

 

Who the FRAKK is Kevin Wilson? I've never even frelling heard of the guy, much less a smegging fan...

mnem
What the f@ck is he talking about? :wink:

 

"Most all law allows discretion on the part of the arresting officer as to whether an arrest is made, CDV being a notable exception. But while we are quoteing Texas law at one another, I call your attention to: Sec. 547.305. RESTRICTIONS ON USE OF LIGHTS. (c) A person may not operate a motor vehicle equipped with a red, white, or blue beacon, flashing, or alternating light unless the equipment is;" and goes on to list lawful exceptions. Go here for the details: TRANSPORTATION CODE CHAPTER 547. VEHICLE EQUIPMENT

There is word is "equipped," not operating. Therefore nothing I said is any less then totally correct. "

The law you cite restricts the USE of lights therefore just having the lights installed would not constitute USE of the lights. retired police vehicles are sold everyday at auction and by your interpretation of the law everyone that purchases such vehicles would be subject to arrest or ticketed on leaving the lot. Your legal theory is seriously flawed.

 

You see, now this is also a sore spot with me... I spent over 4 years as a volunteer firefighter in my hometown in upstate NY; I know perfectly well that the "Red & Blue" is for OFFICIAL LAW ENFORCEMENT OR EMERGENCY VEHICLE USE ONLY. As a volunteer firefighter, we were encouraged to use a BLUE beacon on top or blue flashing lights in the grill of our POVs; but such use was restricted, and we had to carry a permit for that use. I had the stickers on my license and my bunker gear hanging in the back seat of my old Ford truck, and the State Troopers STILL pulled me over and asked for my permit on no less than 4 occasions. Had I not had it, or had I been dumb enough to have a red beacon on my vehicle as well, I'd have been busted in a heartbeat.

Yet as you say... we have d-nugget construction workers ALL OVER San Antonio with the Red & Blue LEDs all over their vehicles & strobes in their taillights; I've even seen a few with the regular LEO lightbar on the roof. (YES - I know the difference; these WERE NOT PBWs, they were POVs)

Now, when I was shopping this stuff, you actually had to provide proof that you were requisitioning for some LE Agency or for a Municipal Office ordering for the Fire Dept to even PLACE A ORDER from the catalogs... I dunno how these ducktards are even GETTING this stuff.

mnem
My apologies to any duck lovers who may have been offended by that remark; here, have some Duck Tape...

 

With the advent of Ebay and all the online ordering that we have now, almost anyone can purchase anything at anytime. For the most part, the retailers are not going to "police" their customers, although some will. However, one look on the streets and it is easy to see there is no problem with the availability of police equipment or all colors of flashing lights or strobes (just check the aisles at Autozone or Pep Boys next time you are there). As I stated previously, I have been driving former police vehicles for years as they provide a less expensive means of getting the HD options without paying the extra price, they are usually well maintained by fleet managers, and they have the added benefit of keeping the tickets to a minimum (not that I would be doing anything to deserve one in the first place). One side benefit, I really do not have to worry about a car jacking at an intersection. Sadly, there are basically two categories of people that make it harder for those of us who legitimately wish to drive former LE vehicles. One is the jerk show off that knows better, but still puts all the LE gear on his vehicle and then usually gets caught because he is trying to show off to his buddies all his cool "stuff". The other, and more ominous character, is the one who uses the cop car to stop unsuspecting vehicles for really bad purposes (muggings, robberies, rapes or even kidnappings). Without dragging this thread out forever, let's just agree with the fact several good points have been made and that there are as many ways of interpretation as their are points.

 

In Massachusetts construction vehicles operating on active highways, ie in the vicinity of construction lane closings, are required by the DOT to be equipped with red or yellow strobes on the appropriate ends of the vehicle. All of our pickups and larger trucks are equipped with hide-a-way strobes.
CAP

 

In Texas the ONLY vehicles authorized to use Red, White or Blue sequentially flashing lights are "Authorized Emergency Vehicles" (i.e.: fire, volunteer fire, police, volunteer police, ambulances, doctors, and utility company ERVs) and tow trucks when operating under the direction of a Peace Officer. School Busses are authorized, even REQUIRED to have, sequentially flashing Red lights fore and aft.

No other vehicles are authorized to operate said lighting, including TxDOT itself.

 

No you are wrong, my last badge was purchased and bought by me, as the founding CLEO of a State agency, I choose to allow that. However, this is pretty common, otherwise Blackington would not offer individual sales.

Frankly, if you did not become an expert in your field in over twenty years, you picked the wrong line of work. I am an instructor in 3 states and federally as well. I am also a lead instructor in a line of training materials that is sold, distributed and used internationally. I have policed in 3 states and 4 countries and soon will hold a Masters Degree in Criminal Justice.

I can list all my certifications if you like, or my over 4000 hours of advanced training, but my point is simple, there is nothing "more correct" about anything that you have said. I am not mad; I just dislike being contradicted by someone for the sake of perversity.

For anyone reading this with a serious thought toward putting a RADAR in their personal vehicle and then when discovered claiming that you were only doing a “traffic survey,“ please keep in mind that this is a defense strategy. In other words something you try and offer up to a Judge and Jury after you are arrested. It is nonsense and is unlikely to save you.

Is disputatio est super

 

HOWEVER, without an agency the badge is merely a "keepsake": the authority still belongs to the agency alone.

I still have all my badges, but they now convey ZERO authority.

To think: all this brouhaha over a mere e b a Y ™ auction.

Obviously, you missed the "Engage Humor Mode" notation preceeding "Never claim to be an `expert', because an "ex" is a has-been and a `spurt' is a drip under pressure!" . :wink:

Est modus in rebus

QED

 

" Forgive him, for he believes that the customs of his tribe are the laws of nature" ~ George Bernard Shaw

Nope, a retired law enforcement officer still has certain powers in Georgia and federally, like nationwide CCW. I am pretty sure mine are still good, I used them to effect an arrest last week. Now, I make no claims about your badge and ID, they may well be no more then trinkets.

No, I ignored it. This started when you took my simple one line response and tried to one up me by claiming that you knew better. I have just been playing your game. The middle ground is in acknowledging that.

 

Let us review: on 05-08-2010, 08:10 AM you posted:

In response I posted:

You followed with:

Which actually didn't make any sense, seeing as I had posted "Police radar operation falls under the LEO's FCC licensure of the communications department", noting that very fact. :confused2: Whatever....

You then posted:

Which led me to post the standing "expert" joke of "Never claim to be an `expert', because an "ex" is a has-been and a `spurt' is a drip under pressure!"

Now, this having been said: "YES", I, too, am an "expert" at what I do. I just don't use that term in view of the above-posted joke.

Now, re: RADAR licensing, let us hear from the REAL "experts" on the issue:

FCC Radar Transceiver Licensing

PUBLIC NOTICE
FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
Released: December 9, 1996 DA 96-2040

The FCC continues to receive many inquiries about regulations governing police radar, radar detectors, and other radar devices used to measure the speed of an object. This Notice explains the scope of FCC regulation over these devices. It updates and supersedes the Public Notice on the same subject dated August 1, 1985. Radar units are transceivers, i.e. they both transmit and receive a signal, and operate under rules for the Radiolocation Service contained in Part 90 of the FCC's Rules. As such, they are certified and authorized by the FCC under Parts 2 and 90 of the FCC's Rules. Part 90 specifies the frequencies and technical standards for radar units, but does not address how radar units are to be operated as devices to measure an object's speed. Also, the FCC Rules do not contain provisions concerning the calibration of radar units, the reliability of the readings, or operator capability requirements. Radar units are used by police and other public safety agenciesto measure vehicle speeds. Under Part 90 of the rules, licensees in the Public Safety Radio Pool (such as state or local government entities), that already have a FCC license for a radio communications system, may operate radar units without obtaining a separate license for them. [emphasis added] Radar units may also be used under Part 90 by non-public safety entities such as professional baseball teams, tennis clubs, automobile and boat racing organizations, private transportation firms, railroads, etc., to measure the speed of objects or vehicles. Non-public safety users, however, are required to obtain a Part 90 license from the Commission for use of radar units. [again, emphasis added] Additionally, many public safety agencies also operate unattended, low-power, transmit-only radar units under Part 15 of the FCC's Rules. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) is the federal agency concerned with the enforcement of highway speed limits and with the operation of radar as enforcement tools. Information on NHTSA regulations concerning radar use can be obtained from the Department of Transportation, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 400 Seventh St., S.W., Washington, D.C. 20590. Radar jammers are transmitters tuned to interfere with ("jam") a radar signal. The intentional use of jammers is considered "malicious interference" and is strictly prohibited by the Communications Act of 1934, as amended, as well as by FCC Rules. Anyone using a jammer risks such penalties as losing an FCC licenses, paying a fine, or facing criminal prosecution. Radar detectors are radio receivers tuned to receive radar signals and are used by motorists to provide a warning of any radar activity in the vicinity. In this regard, the FCC regulations pertaining to receivers do not address the subject of radar detectors. The use of radar detectors by members of the public, therefore, does not constitute in itself a violation of FCC Rules. Some jurisdictions, however, have local regulations or statutes concerning the use of radar detectors. Inquiries about such statutes should be directed to local law enforcement authorities. In summary, the FCC Rules regulate radar transmitting units but provide limited regulation over receivers, with the subject of radar detectors not being specifically addressed in the FCC Rules. For more information about the subject of this notice, contact the Wireless Telecommunications Bureau, Public Safety and Private Wireless Division, at (202) 418-0680. FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION RADAR GUNS Title 47 Code of Federal Regulations - Telecommunications Part 90 - Private Land Mobile Radio Services Subpart H - Policies Governing the Assignment of Frequencies Rule 90.20 Public Safety Pool Rule Section 90.20(f)(4) states:

"A licensee of a radio station in this service may operate radio units for the purpose of determining distance, direction, speed, or position by means of a radiolocation device on any frequency available for radiolocation purposes without additional authorization from the Commission, provided type accepted equipment or equipment authorized pursuant to 90.203(b)(4) and (b)(5) of this part is used, and all other rule provisions are satisfied. A licensee in this service may also operate, subject to all of the foregoing conditions and on a secondary basis, radio units at fixed locations and in emergency vehicles that transmit on the frequency 24.10 GHz, both unmodulated continuous wave radio signals and modulated FM digital signals for the purpose of alerting motorists to hazardous driving conditions or the presence of an emergency vehicle. Unattended and continuous operation of such transmitters will be permitted." No Federal Communications Commission requirement exists that the make and model of the radar gun be recorded on the radio station license.
-30-

SO, as I noted: legal operation of a RADAR unit on a public roadway requires either a law enforcement badge (with attendant authority) and an F.C.C.-issued Radio Transceiver License (covered under the LEO's agency's license) or (for non-LEOs) just an F.C.C-issued license.

The fact I no longer have legal authority (i.e.: badge or license) to operate RADAR is the very reason my own MPH Industries BEE-36A unit sets on the shelf, unused for years (maybe I should post it on e b a Y ™ :wink: ).

Now, can we just agree to disagree and move on?

BTW: the vehicle of this thread sold for $6,200.00.

Est modus in rebus

QED

 

Talk about the thread that would not die! Okay kids, time to bring this to an end and move on to something really important....like who has the most practical law enforcement experience in this forum...JUST KIDDING, JUST KIDDING!

 

One word here: CATM! :wink:

But seriously, all across this nation there are instances where individual law enforcement officers (LEOs, for the uninformed) have to provide their own vehicles, as did I when elected to the Office of Constable, and as do the Deputy Constables in Dallas County.

If I had currently had a need for another such vehicle I would have jumped on the Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor posted on e b a Y ™ "like a duck on a junebug", as you could not have bought a non-equiped 2005 CVPI vehicle and outfitted it like this one for the final selling price.

Of course, I would have pulled the hard drive out of its CF-28, cloned it to the hard drive from one of my CF-29s, changed out all the drivers to match the CF-29's needs, wiped the CF-28's drive and sold it on e b a Y ™ ( or. here in B/S/T ).

As to the "repartee" between myself and Azrial, well, I can't speak for Bill but I never took anything here seriously; even when he "nicked" me on my misspelling of "preceding."

 

That's part of the fun being a member of this forum. While the basic premise is all about Toughbooks, you never know just what direction any particular thread is going to take (especially when there is a certain dwagon lurking out there in the shadows!) The good thing is that most of the members are also older/mature/not d#$kheads and can carry on a conversation such as this one without getting nasty. It's all good.....

 

Well... I, for one, have the highest regard for anyone who serves... whether it be Rescue, Firefighter, Police, Armed Services... All of them. I take my hat off to them as they put their lives on the line every day to protect me, my family and neighbors.

When I lived in Virginia (And made A LOT more money!) I used to just drive up to the Volunteer Rescue Squads and Fire Depts and stroke them a check. They usually looked at me with that, "What are you doing this for?" look. I told them they could use it however they wanted or, if they preferred, I would go out and buy them whatever they needed of equal value and donate it. Occasionally I would drop off a case of beer on a Friday night on the way home from work. Anyone who will risk their life to save mine deserves a break. EOS.

Ebay has certain policies in effect that stop people from listing (or buying) official badges. Since 9/11 they have become VERY effective at doing this. They do still sell the little "Thin Blue Line" decals but from what I have heard... Most LEOs laugh at those.... And if they ever caught a poser trying to "outwit" them by sticking one on their vehicle... They would definitely give them a ticket instead of maybe letting them off with a warning.

God knows I hate posers of ANY type... And there are a TON of them out there. But until I either find a "smite" button that works or find that rare Superman costume that actually DOES work (IE, allows you to fly and makes you invincible) I'll just be the humble hard working soul that I am... Paying homage to those that risk their lives for the sake of others.

Over my 48 years (yes... I AM old!) I have met many, many courageous people from all of the fields mentioned above. My neighbor is retired Secret Service. He has a wall filled with plaques in his basement. A lot of different presidents, heads of state, etc. He is one of the nicest people I have ever met and would give anyone in the neighborhood the shirt off his back if they were in need.

But I have also met the "real" Barney Fife. When I was a kid growing up in a small town... HE was the law. His teeth were missing where he chewed his cigar and carried that bullet in his shirt pocket. He was totally inept. To my knowledge he only ever solved one crime. This was back in the 70s when nobody (where we lived at least) ever locked their house or cars. My Dad and I were preparing for a fishing trip to Point Lookout, MD. We had all our fishing gear poised on the front yard getting ready to load it all up in the boat... But we needed to run to the store and get ice, beer for him and soda for me. When we returned.... ALL of our fishing stuff was GONE! We called old Barney and he came over, we told him what happened and he said, "Um, Hang on... I'll be back in 10 minutes!" We were a little surprised but said to hurry up as we wanted to go fishing. Barney came back with ALL our stolen gear. It seems his nephew that lived with him had just shown up at Barney's house with all this fishing gear right before we called the police. So he KNEW where our stuff was. He asked if we wanted to press charges and we declined as we just wanted to get under way.

I've dealt with the hardasses and the cool... But you need to respect the law and those that serve.

 

Well... I DO have ONE badge that I keep on my shop pegboard.....