Lets Talk SDHC & ReadyBoost...

OK, based on another thread here I have decided to try the ReadyBoost feature of Win7 with a SDHC card in my CF-29N in hopes of a cheap easy speed boost.

I know that the faster the flash media the more benefit. But this got me to thinking, what will my Toughbook really support? I mean, will it support the newer faster SDHC Memory Cards? Up to what Class?

With Panasonic announcing a new "Class 10" SDHC earlier in 2009 at 15 MByte/s, I am considering using a 4GB Class 10 card for this feature.

I am looking at the SanDisk Ultra II 4 GB SDHC Memory Card that are as low as $16 shipped! That sounds like a deal for even a modest increase!

I think that 4 GB may be more then would benefit my machine, which only has 1.280 GB of RAM and might help to close the gap that I suffered using the WD Scorpio 320GB for its capacity, over the faster 7200RPM drives.

I have read the excellent " CF-29 SD reader?" thread and noted that most of the problems seemed to be related to using XP that had not had the hotfix applied to allow recognition of SDHC.

So has anybody actually used an SDHC for ReadyBoost on the CF29?

Opinions?

 

Az -

Your bottleneck in this will most likely be the chipset in the card reader; I am using a Class 4 4GB card in the machine I'm typing on. It has 1GB RAM and believe me, the difference IS amazing. I suspect that half of it has to do with the machine being able to address cache AT THE SAME TIME as it addresses the HDD; remember, most HDDs nowadays have cache RAM in them as well. Just remember a few things:

For best performance, format the ReadyBoost in FAT32.

Don't bother with anything larger than 4GB; that is the maximum that ReadyBoost (And FAT32) support.

Set it ALL as dedicated to ReadyBoost. Plug it into a slot on the BACK of the machine so you can forget about it; I've blown up a few browser sessions plugging OTHER things into the front port and accidentally dislodging my ReadyBoost.

The $16 card you refer to is probably the SAME card I'm using, only mine is one of the "dual format" cards with a built-in USB plug. For that price, what difference does it make? if it doesn't work as ReadyBoost, you can still use it elsewhere...

mnem
Feet take you everywhere...

 

Which machine are you typing on?

 

All good advice, but you have lost me in the sentence above. Are you talking about using a USB Flash drive for the ReadyBoost, because I was kind of angling towards using the SD Flash Card slot on the side of the machine under the optical drive.

That is the only SD slot I have. Hence my questions regarding the fastest speed classification that the OEM reader will support. I did a lot or reading this morning on ReadyBoost and I fully agree, that more then 4GB will not be used, except that the larger SanDisk Ultra II 32 GB SDHC Memory Card is twice as fast as the 4GB version at 30 MByte/s!

But that is moving out of the realm of cheap, and money is an object right now.

 

please specify your OS.

I wonder if you will see an increase in performance if you had 4 gigs of ram.

Dominik

 

Well I am not sure if you are inquiring of Mnementh or I, but I am using Win7 Pro on a CF-29N. Sooo, 4GB of RAM is not an option for me.

As to using a bigger flash drive with ReadyBoost, well the application is limited to 4GB of flash for ReadyBoost which I understand is equal to approximately 8GB of cache due to the compression used.

"The FAT32 filesystem limits ReadyBoost.sfcache file to 4GB" per Matt Ayers, the Program Manager of the Microsoft Windows Client Performance group and "owner" the ReadyBoost feature.

 

you should rig up internal USB and place a flash drive in there

 

You know, I thought of that! But, isn't that the port that folks are using for the GPS mod? I hope to have GPS before I leave!

Anyway, I got the SanDisk Ultra II 4 GB SDHC Memory Card today at 15 MByte/s for only $17, plus tax out the door. I will give it a shot and see how well it works, can anyone recommend a benchmark program, so my report is not so "seat of your pants" subjective?

 

you can still rig it up so you have both internal GPS and USB

 

PC Mark vantage, or PC Mark 05

 

for benchmarking

 

THIS ONE RIGHT HERE!!!

Athlon64 2GHZ 1GB/2GB MAX 1TBWDGreen HDD. I've had 2GB RAM in it; but not with ReadyBoost. ReadyBoost STILL performs better in this machine than 2GB alone.

Oh, yeah. I heard THAT. My apologies; I was thinking of a desktop setup when suggesting rear port placement.

I'm certain I WOULD... if only the MB supported it. Seems silly... the machine I work on everyday is this antique Athlon 64 with 1GB RAM... but I have 2GB & a 32GB SSD in my NetBook, which only has a Celeron 900 class processor...

mnem
We are MAD... MAD I SAY...

 

Well still no benchmark test, but it does recognize the SDHC card that I used and Win7 does recognize it as capable of supporting Readyboost. I formatted it as FAT32 as suggested and used the whole card for a Readyboost.

However, from just my personal perspective, it does seem a little quicker! The card gets a little hot so there is definitely some writing going on there! It also seems to access my HDD a good bit less.

I know, that I need to do more scientific testing, but I am getting a Thinkpad together for my fiancee' right now for her Christmas present!

 

My only wish is that we had 2 SD slots! Since you have been doing the research, save me some time my friend!

I use an SDHC card for backup on some info I get quite frequently during the day. I like how the SDHC card is internal a I move my computer around alot during the day. Less chance of knocking a USB sticking out. How can I do both tasks? Use 4 Gigs for RB, then I would need at least another 4 to 6 for memory. Got a card you suggest?

 

So, I went to Best Buy this morning to get my son a Netbook for Xmas. Nothing like waiting till the last minute!

Before i left I went to SanDisk's website to read about there cards. They have a new Extreme Series that writes up to 30 MB's now. I got one, set it up and all and I went from 45 seconds on a program I backup regulary to 4 seconds with the new one! That is amazing to say the least....

 

As you do not have to commit the whole drive to ReadyBoost, I kind of wish I had gotten a larger then 4GB Card and used only part of it for ReadyBoost and the rest for some storage, backup, or perhaps eboostr3...

Is the card that you bought a SanDisk Ultra III 4 GB SDHC Memory Card? That is the only one I could find that runs at 30 MByte/s. I could only find reference to a SanDisk Ultra III 4GB on one site.

Glad to hear that you are having good results as well!

 

I have a ultra III 8 GB that I use in my cf-30
Older model and not marked for transfer speed as the new cards
I don't need readyboost as the ram usage is never over 1.5GB out of 3.35GB available
And I don't have photoshop or an application that needs large amounts of ram to run


Alex

 

It is the 8GB Extreme III. I can't figure something out though? If it is empty I can set it up fpr RB. However, if I put something on it, go back and look at the RB it says i can't use this device for RB? I don't get it. However, like Tomcat said, i really don't need the extra ram. I guess I will just enjoy the extremely fast transfer speeds!

 

Well mine asked me how much of the card I wanted to use for ReadyBoost, if you said, "All" that could be the problem.

I wished now that I had gotten the 8GB and used half for RB, and half for something else, even if it was just storage. I think that the 30 MByte/s vs my cards 15 MByte/s might have made a little more difference.

But then again, maybe not, my CF-29 is older and may not have been able to take advantage of it, it may not be taking full advantage of what I have now!

From what I have been reading a LOT of what was done to in the design of this feature used slower Flash cards then we all seem to be using. I guess that did not foresee how quickly the technology would improve.

 

I thought the max you could use was 4 Gigs? I pushed the slider all the way over and it was just under 4 I believe.

 

4GB is the max that ReadyBoost can use, but if your card is bigger, you do not have to use the whole thing for RB, the rest of it could be used for other apps.

 

Az -

My apologies for any contribution my comments may have made in your decision there; I was also thinking of a desktop application when I said "Only get a 4GB drive & dedicate all of it to ReadyBoost".

Since most modern desktops have OODLES of USB ports and plugging one into the back means you won't be taking it in/out of your machine very much, any more than 4GB would be a waste.

Obviously with only ONE SDHC slot on your ToughBook, that's a whole 'nuther game... not a lot of choice there for where to put your SD card.

But truth be told, I'm kinda leery of taking my cache RAM in & out of my machine like I would a thumbdrive; I still think it would be best to have a separate thumbdrive for my data. I know M$ SAYS you can without hurting it, but I know from experience you have to restart any apps you have open (at least) if it gets unplugged. This indicates to me that there is REAL OPPORTUNITY for data corruption there... I'd STILL prefer to use an external SD reader for my camera media too.

mnem
Paranoics are optimists.

 

"This indicates to me that there is REAL OPPORTUNITY for data corruption there... I'd STILL prefer to use an external SD reader for my camera media too."

Agree! Plus, every time you insert/take out a card (this applies to any card type), there is always a chance of f*%#ing up the slot. Better to mess up a slot in a $15 card reader than the one on the MOBO.

 

No no, nonsense! Did I come across as whining about it?

I did a lot of research and reading on this but in hindsight I think that I would have liked to get the maybe 8-18 GB card for the faster transfer rates and then I could have used anything over 4GB for some other static app, like an Acronis image or eBoostr3. It would have been something to play with to see if there was any more potential for tweaking there.

But, as I have said, money is an object and the cards really go up the bigger you get.

Besides I got this card for a great deal and just got a Panasonic Lumix DMC-TS1 camera that will use it!

Silver Trooper, I agree on the possibility for data corruption. I would not do a hot swap on the card while in use, I don't care what they say.

 

Az -

Naah, you didn't... I guess it was just a matter of looking back & realizing I wasn't having the same conversation you were...

mnem
Happens to me ALL THE TIME with my wife...

 

Not to belabor this thread, but I wonder if there is a way to determine exactly what the maximum fastest SDHC card that the port on my CF-29N will support.

Toyo, if you are ever out my way, or vice-a-versa, I would like to try your SanDisk Ultra III 4 GB SDHC Memory Card that runs at 30 MByte/s in place of my Ultra II at 15 MByte/s and see how much difference it makes.

 

I just got my hands on a SanDisk ExtremeIII 4GB SDHC card, its rated as class 6. This is the first time I ever touched such a card.

The problem: I copied 1600 megs and it took TEN minutes. Is that normal? that's less then 3 MB/s.

can someone post their transfer speeds and card rating.

thanks

EDIT: I got roughtly 2.66 MB/s. I figure this is a limitation of the card reader used (sony build in). Which begs the question: how fast is the toughbook reader?

BTW: External USB 2.0 readers will only get 1.5 MB/s

 

The class 6 is not a easy find, lots of 2 and 4 but when you live in a small town you don't have much to pick from . Is these cards any good ? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280485286446&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT or http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190388765113&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

 

I have used the Adata Class 10 in my Panasonic Luminux Ruggedized Camera with great results. MicroCenter puts the Adata 8GB Class 10 for under $24.

I would say that the Kingston is also a good choice, if not quite as fast.

 

Uh oh, Azrial has changed avatars again! Beware the pig with the beer!!

 

Would investing in a fast SDHC card for Readyboost be a good idea for a laptop with a 5400RPM hard drive? These things are pretty cheap, and truth be told, I pretty much never use the SD card slot (my netbook hasn't had the dummy card removed in my entire ownership of it).

What size should I pick up? I know that Windows 7 can use Readyboost in filesystems other than FAT32, so the 4GB limit is no more, correct?

 

As you have pointed out, they are pretty cheap. For the money spent, I find that the improvement is worthwhile. The less RAM and the slower HDD that you have the more worthwhile you will likely find this mod.

No, 4GB is the limit imposed by of the technology. I have read where some have proposed partitioning an 8GB and using half for ReadyBoost and Half for eBooster, but I have never done it and do not know if the idea has any merit in application.

Silver Trooper, the new icon kind of reflected how I have felt lately. I have had to dodge a few bullets...

 

I have a 8gb in my cf-19 formatted in exfat when i went to the readyboost tab it asked if iwanted to use all of it. So it is not using all 8gb? if not I will use only 4gb and leave 4gb for small backup files

 

Well the guy that wrote it said that it will only use up to 4GB, so yeah, I believe him.

It is supposed to be faster if the entire card is dedicated to that use.

 

This has a lot of info on ReadyBoost http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReadyBoost
Microsoft recommends the amount of flash memory for ReadyBoost acceleration be one to three times the amount of random access memory (RAM) in your computer. This recommendation should not be confused with the message that is displayed in the “ReadyBoost” tab of drive properties dialog: for example, for a flash drive of 16 GB capacity formatted as FAT32 it will display a message that “Windows recommends reserving 4094 MB for optimal performance” even if RAM size is 10 GB, just because 4094 MB is the maximum file size on a FAT32 volume; after reformatting it as NTFS or exFAT, the message changes to “Windows recommends 15180 MB”.

 

If you go here, there is an interview with Matt Ayers, the Program Manager in the Microsoft Windows Client Performance group that "owns" the ReadyBoost feature.

This is some of what he said:

Q: What's the largest amount of flash that I can use for ReadyBoost?
A: You can use up to 4GB of flash for ReadyBoost (which turns out to be 8GB of cache w/ the compression)

Q: Why can't I use more than 4GB of flash?
A: The FAT32 filesystem limits our ReadyBoost.sfcache file to 4GB

Q: What's the smallest ReadyBoost cache that I can use
A: The smallest cache is 256MB (well, 250 after formatting). Post beta2, we may drop it another 10 MB or so.

Q: Ok... 256M-4GB is a pretty big range... any recommendations?
A: Yes. We recommend a 1:1 ratio of flash to system memory at the low end and as high as 2.5:1 flash to system memory. Higher than that and you won't see much benefit.

I also found a good article on measuring the performance of various flash devices with this feature, it is HERE. I am going to do some more research there!

 

So even if I used more than 4GB, the performance increase would likely not be worth the extra twenty bucks an 8GB Class 10 SDHC card costs...

 

Azrial was that interview from 2006 or so. I think that was when Vista was released with the feature so maybe things have matured? he states the fat32 limits it not that that is the limit if that makes sense. Now with fatexe maybe it does use more than 4 gb?

 

I went to here http://www.ghacks.net/2009/11/16/windows-readyboost-monitor/ and they say The improved Readyboost technology in Windows 7 now supports a maximum cache size of 32 Gigabytes opposed to the 4 Gigabyte limit in Windows Vista. Windows 7 also supports up to eight Readyboost devices compared to one in Vista and can improve the startup performance as it can be used during startup as well.
and here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReadyBoost
The removable media's capacity must be at least 256 MB (250 MB after formatting). Windows Vista x86 & x64 is limited to using 4 GB; this restriction has been removed in Windows 7 .
and here http://www.answers.com/topic/readyboost
Microsoft recommends the amount of flash memory for ReadyBoost acceleration be one to three times the amount of random access memory (RAM) in your computer. This recommendation should not be confused with the message that is displayed in the “ReadyBoost” tab of drive properties dialog: for example, for a flash drive of 16 GB capacity formatted as FAT32 it will display a message that “Windows recommends reserving 4094 MB for optimal performance” even if RAM size is 10 GB, just because 4094 MB is the maximum file size on a FAT32 volume; after reformatting it as NTFS or exFAT, the message changes to “Windows recommends 15180 MB”.
and check out this video here http://video.answers.com/Q/how_to_use_readyboost_to_speed_up_windows_7_229769507
and see what he has to say

 

Nice research Toughasnails! It looks like I could benefit from a bigger SDHC card!

 

I did like the video...... but as you know some still say 4GB max .....depends on what site you go to and when it was put up ......1 or 2 years ago then it would be 4GB max. As they say there is only one way to find out and I am looking now for a 8GB and at least a Class 6 or maybe even a 10

 

I just pulled my 8GB memory card out of my phone and formatted it " exfat " just to try it and WOW IT'S FAST. For $24.00-$30.00 for a 8GB Class 10 memory card on fleabay this would be my cheapest upgrade I ever done to this 29 . Azrial glad you started this thread.........best one on the forum :yes:

 

Here is some good comparisons on the different SDHC cards.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/compactflash-sdhc-class-10,review-31878.html

 

Can we make a list of what SDHC cards are known to work in a CF-29 and CF-30? I tried a Transcend 4gb x133 card that would not work in either the 29 or 30.

Glen

 

I have used these cards so far.
1: PNY Optima "60 HD" 4GB class 4
2: SanDisk Micro 4GB & 8GB class 2
3: SanDisk 4GB class 2
4: Noname 4GB class ?

I formatted them "exfat" , no problem
Your Transcend 4gb x133 card should of worked . You running Vista or Windowz 7.....did you format it exfat?

 

I am presently using a SanDisk Class 4 I bought at Wal-Mart.

I have a 8GB AData Class 10 I intended for my camera that I will now try.

 

I have used the following:

Sandisk Extreme 8GB SDHC, Class 10 30 MB/s
Sandisk Ultra 4GB SDHC Class 8 15MB/s
Panasonic 6GB SDHC Class 4 ?

 

Tried with XP, couldn't read or format the card. I might have tried Vista. This was a long time ago.

Glen

 

I am told its only for vista or W7 . If you are running XP then you need a program called " Eboostr " to name one Readyboost technology for Windows XP and check this out How to get readyboost on XP: Using your Flash Drive as a Page File Captive8 Media and they have a how to video too.
Google search : ReadyBoost on XP

 

I should explain, I was only trying to use the card as storage with XP. XP would fumble around for a while and finally give some error message. I know the card is good because I am using it in an IDE to SD adapter, replacing a 2.5" laptop drive, in a diagnostic tester running Win98.

2gb SD cards work OK. So, the card reader seems to work properly.

Glen