Looking for help with my CF-30

Hi, I'm new here. I've recently picked up a used CF-30 (still under warranty through this September). I'm having one issue with it, and two other questions (upgrades I'd like to do once I resolve the first problem), so I thought I'd post a thread for some help on all three.

It's a CF-30K (mk3, as far as I know) with Win7 (x86) and 4 GB RAM. In three weeks I fly to Greenland for a field campaign (we'll be on the ice for a month, in cold weather, recharging with generators, etc). I bought the Toughbook specifically for this purpose.

1) This morning the PS/2 Fujistu touchpad crapped out (not the touchscreen, just the mouse pad). At first the computer didn't see it at all (as if the hardware wasn't there), then Windows it saw it but couldn't install the drivers (Error 19, followed by an Error 10), so I was trying to uninstall/reinstall the drivers to see if I could fix it. I reinstalled them and rebooted, now it doesn't see the device again, as if it's not even there ("Scanning for New Hardware" produces nothing). I hadn't done any big Windows updates this morning, unsure what would've caused it other than a hardware failure. If anyone has any bright ideas, I'm all ears... it'd be great to exhaust the software options before trying to replace the hardware. As I understand it swapping out a new mousepad is a non-trivial undertaking. I could try to go the warranty route, but I very-much doubt I'd get it back in time for Greenland, and I need to use it in the meantime anyway.

2) Second, this computer has a 160 GB HDD, and I'd like to swap that out with a Crucial 250 GB SSD that I have on hand. Can I simply image the HDD onto the SSD and swap out the hard drives, or do I need to put in the blank SSD and re-install Windows from scratch? I'd like to avoid the latter if possible, given all the Panasonic drivers and everything else that's required to get a Toughbook running smoothly, not to mention all the software I've installed. But I would *love* to have the speed and reliability of an SSD in there before going to the field. Help is appreciated.

3) Third, I have two batteries for this CF-30, a new one and my old one (which is now a spare). I have a Media drive with a DVD in it that I will have no purpose for while on ice... I've read somewhere that I can swap out the media bay for a 2nd battery enclosure (run 2 batteries at once), but I haven't been able to confirm that. I'd like to get some knowledgeable feedback from someone who's done that before if it's possible.

Help on any of the above is appreciated, although I really need the first one resolved as soon as I can! Much obliged,

- Mike

 

Brief update: I plugged in an external USB mouse for a bit (just to have one to use on the machine), randomly rebooted, and suddenly my touchpad is working again. I have no idea why. It's good that it's working, but it still worries me that that happened, and--if it is an intermittent hardware issue--that it might happen again in the field (not the end of the world, but still pretty annoying).

Anyhoo, if someone has any answers to the 2nd and 3rd questions, I'm all ears. Or if you have good advice or diagnostics about the mousepad issue (which is resolved, but I'm unsure if it's permanently resolved), I'm game too. Thanks.

- Mike

 

Welcome to the Panasonic Toughbook Forum

Yes you can do that but it is best to do a fresh install

Yes it will give you up to an extra 2 hours (maybe). The 30 will use that battery first then use the main batteries . Myself it's best to have 2 main battery because you will get more run time...and are a lot cheaper too.

Check out the below link and you will see that they are very high priced compared to the regular battery on ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Panasonic-G...992?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5419169c00

Here is a better price http://www.ebay.com/itm/2nd-Battery...046?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a8dc13e66

 

On question 2, I was facing the same dilemma when moving my mk3 from hd to ssd, and simply did a clone from the one to the other. I had lots of software that required tweaking, so I didn't want to go through the process again. Anyway, it's worked fine.

 

Okay, thanks for the help, I appreciate that. When you say "it's best to have 2 main battery", do you mean running both "main" batteries at the same time in the machine, or just swapping them out when needed? I already have 2 main batteries, was just curious which option you were describing (if there's a way to run 2 main batteries at once in the machine, I'm all ears, but I'm guessing that's not what you mean).

Also curious, why is it "best" to do an OS install? The only difference in the system would be the type of Hard Drive (SSD instead of an HDD), so assuming I can get the right Hard Disk driver installed after porting it over, what's the main drawback of imaging the drive? I ask sincerely, because I don't know.

- Mike

 

Media bay batteries are ok. I have one in my CF30. The extra run time is nice.
From time to time you can find bargains for used ones on ebay....I just sent my extra one to a fellow forum member. I had 2 of them.
Make sure your main battery is the proper one for a CF30.
CF-VZSU46 is correct for a CF30.
A CF-VZSU29 from a CF29 will work but have a reduced run time by an hour or more.

 

Good to hear! I will probably try that first. If it doesn't work, I can always toss in the Windows disk, wipe it clean and reinstall it anyway, so I guess I'm not out anything by trying to clone the drive first.

Thanks again,

- Mike

 

A clean install on a SSD is best because win7 detects that it is a SSD and changes about 15 or 20 different settings to get the SSD to work properly.
Install the SSD, Do a clean install of win7
then use the win7 CF30 one click driver bundle.

Bob's your uncle..

 

Thanks. Both batteries I currently have are the CF-VZSU46 versions. I will probably get a media bay battery too, simply because (a) I have no use for a DVD drive in the field, and (b) the extreme cold makes battery power a constant issue up there. The less we have to fire up the generator for recharging, the better.

Thanks! I really appreciate the quick responses this (very active) forum gets and the helpfulness of the responses so far. It's much appreciated,

- Mike

 

Thanks, that makes sense. Maybe I'll just grit my teeth and redo the install, and then go install the additional software as well. I'll set aside an afternoon for it.

lol on the uncle thing, close but no cigar.

 

If you do get one this would be the seller I would get mine from. They are a trusted Toughbook seller with 100% seller feedback and the battery is new.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2nd-Battery...046?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a8dc13e66

 

Thanks, I just ordered one from that seller. I appreciate the tip.

 

hmmm ...
*where* to get the power to do *something* is always an issue in the field ... and the more options , the better .
you might want to pick up a 12vdc/110vac input power adapter ... if you have access to 110vac or 12vdc you can plug in and run/charge the '30 .
(i have one and it was/is money well spent) .
i can't find the site on ebay that has them ... perhaps one of the other members has a link or has one for sale .

there are a couple of different types of straight "ac" power supplies ... make sure that yours is capable of running on 110 or 220 vac .
(not to mention having a compliment of "business end" adapters)

one way to conserve power is to "turn off" the heaters in the '30 ...
these are for the hard drive , which you won't need as you are going to a ssd and not running in -40F .
also , there is a heater for the ccfl ... again , as you are not working in extremely low temperatures you won't need it .

i wonder if there is a 24vdc powered supply available ?
i am thinking of equipment (ie : army jeeps , etc .) that is 24 volt powered ,

 

The Mk3 is Led, not CCFL so that won't be a problem for his unit.

Also power settings will be helpful to stretch battery life, The led and SSd will save power, not using a DVD/cd drive will save power.

Now that you have a media bay battery you can't swap all of your batteries out with out having to shut the unit down.

Besides the above mentioned power supply have you thought about a solar charger? You could get a external battery charger and just have it charging batteries while you worked on your pc.

 

Just to clarify, we have a gas generator to recharge batteries, sorry if I didn't make that clear before. Whenever batteries are low (on laptops, cameras, large 12V instrument batteries, what-have-you), we fire up the Honda 4-stroke geni and plug things into the power strip so we can recharge. I also have a 12VDC==>120V AC inverter along (standard US power is 120VAC, not 110), so I can charge off one of our big 12V gell-cells if we want, occasionally recharging isn't so much the issue. It's just *very* nice not to have to recharge the thing constantly in the middle of the day, especially on a cold day when I may have to use it often.

This is an excellent suggestion, thank you. How/where do I do that? Is that in the power-saver utility? (I don't have the CF-30 in front of me right now to check.) I'll look into it. You're absolutely right, no need to run the HDD warmers with the SSD in there.

As ADOR pointed out, I have the LED screen, so I'm not worried about the screen in the cold, but point taken.
To clarify, we are working in extremely low temperatures... it's the center of the Greenland ice sheet in Spring. -40F is entirely in the realm of possibilities, it hit -42F several nights on our last trip. I've looked at our weather station transmissions, it was -52*C (-61*F) at one our stations early this morning, and we leave to visit there in three weeks. We'll be traversing by snowmobile on the ice for a month, camping in tents the whole way. Got my parka, heavy-duty bib and 6-lb Baffin boots at the ready here.

Thanks for the tips though! I will definitely be looking to shut down the hard-disk warmer.

- Mike

 

ADOR, I'm a bit confused about this statement... does this mean that *without* the media bay battery I *would* be able to hot-swap the battery out, but with it I can't? I'm unsure how I would do that without the extra battery (seems when you take the only battery out, it would die instantly), but I'm guessing there's something I'm missing here, so I hope you can fill me in if that's the case. Is there another option available that would allow me to hot-swap batteries without rebooting? If so, I'm all ears.

We'll have a Honda gas generator along, so in evenings I can plug it in there to recharge, quite handy. I have access to solar while out at each of our stations (they have a 30W 12V panel on each station), but would prefer not to plug into that unless necessary. Mostly I just want to get the most juice I can out if it for use during a single day, and use the geni at night.

Thanks for the feedback everyone, I really do appreciate it. I've gleaned some really good tips from this thread, and appreciate the active and helpful nature of this forum. When we get back I wouldn't mind coming in and giving some feedback on how it all worked out for us up there.

- Mike

 

Was typing that up right before I hit the shower (just got off work), my bad. You CAN, not can't.

I don't think you can switch the heater off, but you can just leave it in the caddy unplugged with you swap the HDD with the SSD.

The charger I was talking about plugs into the battery, not the laptop. So it would be less of a strain on that system. It would only charge the battery, not the battery while the laptop was running. It was just a though.

 

Ah, yes, gotcha on both counts. Thanks!

I looked at the external battery charger (which is a good idea, thanx), but the only one I could find was sold by Lind Electronics, a 1-bay battery charger for $200 or a 3-bay for $600, which seems a little steep for a battery charger, yikes. I could buy an old CF-29 WinXP computer for less than that and simply use it as a "charging port" for the spare battery, to swap into the CF-30 when it's charged. If you know of any sources for such battery chargers in the $50-or-less range, I might pick one up, but $200 seems a little ridiculous for a pretty simple piece of hardware. Guess there's just not much of a volume demand for them.

EDIT: I stand corrected here, there's a CF-VCBTB1W external charger that's a lot more practical ( $42 on Amazon), I'll probably pick one up, along with a spare AC adapter.

 

Me thinks you are incorrect Sir..
We are talking about a CF30
I have iretrofitted LED strips in two CF30 mk3's Both had CCFL tubes in them..

Yes you can hotswap batteries when you have a media bay battery.

An external battery charger is a great idea....

 

If you're right, thanks for the correction, Shawn. I'll double-check. If it's an LCD, what temps could I safely use it at? Does it have a screen warmer for these conditions (I'm guessing not, but I don't know)?

I actually stand corrected on my last statement about the external charger... there's also the CF-VCBTB1W external charger that's a lot more practical ( $42 on Amazon), I'll probably pick one up, along with a spare AC adapter.

Thanks guys.

- Mike

 

Yes the CF30's have a screen heater..I left it hooked up in mine...

 

Awesome. I've only had this things a month or so (first Toughbook), am just getting familiar with it. Thanks for the feedback.

 

FYI. You cannot use a CF-29 as a 'charging port' for CF-30/31 main batteries. CF-30/31 main batteries do not fit into a CF-29. CF-29 main batteries will fit in a CF-30/31. You can use a CF-30/31 as a 'charging port' for a CF-29 though.

I hope the expedition goes well for you and your team. I would be interested in hearing your feedback when you return. Have a blast, but be safe.

 

Buy one of these.....It's the RIGHT tool for the job.....Money well spent..Ebay less than $50.00

Panasonic ToughBook Battery Charger Model CF-VCBTB1W

 

He said he was going to pick up one of those from Amazon, see his last post on the first page. My post was in response to his statement that he could get a used CF-29 from ebay cheaper than the Lind charger, and use the 29 to charge his CF-30 main batteries.

 

I was only half-jokingly-serious about using a CF-29 as a "charging port". Since I found the much-cheaper battery charger online (the same one Shawn mentioned, for $42 on Amazon), I gave up on that whimsical idea pretty quickly and ordered that charger just today, along with a spare AC power adapter if I wanted to charge both the spare and the main computer at once (plus, a I figure a spare adapter can't hurt to have in the field anyway, only $12 extra).

But I do appreciate looking out for the details there, and keeping me from doing something stupid. I'll likely succeed in doing something stupid of my own volition anyway, but at least it won't be y'all's fault.

- Mike

 

Don't you guys worry about the heater on LCD and on the hdd. It has a thermo sensor like a thermo couple that shut off when it meet a certain temp. This heater is needed specially on the LCD that uses the CCFL tube. With regards to the hdd, left it connected even if you do have an SSD on it eventhough it doesn't matter but who knows when you needed it.


ohlip

 

ohlip,

The unnecessary power consumption is the main concern. I want to max out the battery life while in the field, and don't want the computer wasting power heating up an SSD drive that doesn't need it. If it were an HDD that needed to be warm enough not to break itself in the field, that's another thing.

When I load the SSD into there, I plan to unhook the disk-heater, unless someone has a good reason why the SSD would need it. I'm leaving the CCFL screen heater as is. I want that to keep working, given this computer won't see temps above freezing for over a month.

 

To do it right and avoid all the misinformation..Decide on a specific SSD and then download the white paper for it.
It will tell you the temperature range...I already have done this for my SSD mp3 server drive in my truck.
Unless you get a industrial quality drive, at temperatures below zero Fahrenheit, you need the drive heater to follow the specs.

 

-40F ... about like here in northern minnesnowta .


at low temperatures you may/will have problems with the display being sluggish in response (ghosting) .
the only fix for this is to keep the lcd temperature up .
it is not going to be possible (or at least very difficult) to keep the display warm ...
the ccfls will take some time to come up to full brightness (Hg vapor pressure) if they are very cold
an obvious solution is to keep the machine warm and fire it up and then "be quick about it" when using it out in the cold .

keeping the batteries warm will help get the most out of them and extend their service life .
i remember carrying the magnesium batteries for AN/PRC 25/77 radios under my parka ...
this was especially used when the *low temperature* batteries were not available .

i have not tested the batteries/charging system(s) associated with the '30 when it comes to the actual battery temperature when attempting to recharge .
many charging systems and batteries have a low/high temperature cutoff- safety .

most switchmode ac adapters work in a range of 100-240 volts .
110 0r 120 volts is interchangeable when describing or working with this "common" voltage .
at one time (way in the past) this "standard" was 112 and then 117 VAC .

i took it that you would have generators in the field .
(i have been there ... from 600W to 250KW)
one can never have too many power resources/recharging sources and options .
obtaining another '30 makes good sense ... you will then have another charging source and a backup machine .

using a solar panel to charge the batteries is a thought ... however you cannot outrun the laws of physics .
as an example , the 30 watt panels you mentioned will take a very long time to recharge the battery in a '30 .
this is due to putting back in the same number of watthours that were *used* plus the overhead of chemical and electrical inefficiencies (figure about 30% more) .

addendum ...
yep , there is a low temp recommendation for SSDs .
you may not be able to get around turning off the heaters .
more batteries !!!

 

Good call. I have the SSD already (just haven't installed it yet), I'll look up the white paper and temp specs for it. It's an enterprise-class drive, but not necessarily an "industrial" drive. (In either case it'll still be better than the HDD.) Nice thing, being so much smaller/lighter than an HDD, it doesn't take much to warm it up tolerably anyway.

There's only so much I can do about keeping the thing warm. I know that's the main recommendation ( just keep it warm... don't keep it out in the cold too long, etc), but we're sleeping in tents and won't see a heated building for a month, which is why I use a field-durable laptop in the first place. When the stoves are running in the mess tent it gets tolerably warm (up to about 30F or so), but the computer won't be above freezing pretty much ever--not when running, not when charging, not ever--there's not much to be done about that. Here's a photo of the last field-tablet I used (an old XPlore tablet running WinXP, a bit dated now) first thing in the morning. I booted it up shortly after, frost and all. It worked well that campaign, but the hardware/software is quite old now, which is why I've since upgraded to a Toughbook with Win7.



Programming and downloading data from one of our stations, near the old abandoned Dye-2 cold-war radar station a kilometer away in the background. Probably about 0*F in the picture.



I'm no rookie at keeping batteries warm in the interior pockets of my parka (and that's what I'll do with the charged-spare when I'm out using the machine), but I can't necessarily keep the computer warm while it's charging, or any other time really. "Keep it warm" suggestions don't work. We don't operate out of a heated truck, or a building with a coffee-maker and a warm restroom inside, or anything of the sort. We're camping in the field for a month, sleep in tents and get around via snowmobiles. It simply has to work in the cold, no matter what the ideal operating temps are supposed to be on the spec sheets.

Thanks for the help and the tips, everyone. I'm reading them.

- Mike

 

About the heater for a SSD...the CF-30/31 caddy kit I bought a few months ago. This had a 256GB SSD in it from the factory. I pulled it apart and it had the hard drive heater on it plugged in. I though the HDD heater only run at startup from a cold start. Once it was at operating temp it would shut off and with the 30 running it would keep it warm. Some where this was talked about...not sure if Rick(Toughbook) said this or not. Anyone remember this ??

 

Mike,

When I read your post about the CF-29 as a 'charging port' I didn't think you were seriously going to do it. I took it as you commenting on the high price of the Lind chargers. Besides, I would imagine that on an expedition like the one you are embarking on, that weight would be a concern/consideration and that a charging station for one battery that weighs close to 10lbs, or whatever the actual weight of a 29 is, would be unnecessary, and excessive.

As you are new to Toughbooks, I made the post to clear up any misconceptions of what battery would fit in which unit. Hence the 'FYI'. No worries, it is nothing more than information, you can utilize it or not.

A soft sided cooler, like what the breweries give away as promotions, and a hand/pocket warmer is a great way to keep batteries warm over long periods of time. Something to consider.

I hope your preparations go well and that the CF-30 meets all your expectations once on the ice.

Morgan

 

Good note. I do that already with some meds that aren't supposed to freeze... I have it in the foot of my sleeping bag next to a sealed hot-water-bottle at night (keeps my toes toasty too), and leave it inside sleeping bag with a hand-warmer during the day, which works well. If I know I'll need to boot up the Toughbook for work early in the morning when it's coooold outside, I can toss the batteries in the sleeping bag too (I have a Long-size sleeping bag even though I'm a regular-sized guy to keep stuff warm in my bag). Booting up a cold computer will go a lot better if I can slap in a warm battery first. I'm not gonna put the entire Toughbook in my sleeping bag (no thank you), but the batteries aren't all that big.

Not sure why I wasn't thinking along those lines earlier. Only makes sense. Thanks.

- Mike

 

And you're right on this count, it would be excessive and unnecessary, although the weight isn't as huge of a concern. We have 4 large skidoos, each of them can tow almost 2000 lbs of gear, so even though weight is always a concern to some extent, we have the capacity we need to carry the hardware we need (and fuel, food, shelter, everything else).



It's more about just making sure we have all the hardware we absolutely need, since the store isn't a hop-skip away if we find ourselves short on something. So two batteries (minimum), two AC cords, etc. Mine won't be the only computer along on the trip either (a couple other guys are bringing theirs), so even if it got smashed to smithereens ( oh fer chrissake, never, it's a Toughbook!), we're not completely up sheet-creek.

But I wanna take preventative measures and minimize hardware failures, which is why I'm here picking y'all's brains. I appreciate the feedback on this active forum. Thumbs up to the community of folks here!

- Mike

 

Another thing to add is to get another drive pack with the same image. Just in case the other one failed, you have a back up.


ohlip

 

I'll have another drive with the same image, figure I can swap out the pack if needed. Unless, maybe, if the hard drive enclosures are cheap.

- Mike

 

Along the same line as the cooler, you might think about buying a pizza delivery bag, a smaller one for medium sized pizzas, and use it to minimize heat loss in the 30 while moving from one location to another. Put the 30 in the pizza bag as soon as you shut it down and internal heat should be retained better.

Never been to Sheet Creek, but years back I worked building an Oil and Gas facility on the Sheep Creek, south of Grand Prairie Alberta.

I like the pictures you have posted, looking forward to seeing more after the expedition this year.

 

This is as cheap as they get...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Pan...449?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c994c9ad9

http://www.ebay.com/itm/141623964577?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

I have several good battery's for the 30,be glad to donate one to you as you are doing the kind of crazy stuff I did when I was younger.

 

Thanks toughasnails.

safn1949, I'll send you a PM (or a "Conversation", as they call it here).

 

I have a Mk3 CF-19 and I knew they swapped them to LED. I was thinking they had did the same to the Mk3 CF-30 as they have the same basic hardware specs as the 19 Mk3 (core 2 duo and both got the 4500 series intel graphics)

Also you can use the CF-29 batteries in a CF-30 but can't use 30 batteries into a CF-29. There is a tab preventing this, and cutting the tab off it still won't work in that pc. ( see now some one beat me too it, knew I should of read ahead, lol)

 

When you clone your hard drive to the SSD, be sure to format the SSD on 4k boundaries. The program I use is called HD Clone and it has an option for 4K.

 

What about reloading from the Panasonic Restore Disc? If they are just an image of the factory installed disc, won't they just replicate all the spinning disc parameters? Should we throw out all our Panny discs and go to original Win 7 install discs and then use the recently discovered driver bundles? Inquisitive minds want to know.

 

Well.....If you go to a site.. in your sig..
http://www.thessdreview.com/ssd-guides/optimization-guides/the-ssd-optimization-guide-2/
it tells you what to do after using the restore DVD.

The bundles do eliminate the need for tweaking, I have found the bundles to not always be 100% perfect in their installs.
Sometimes I have to install a certain driver or patch manually.
The bundles are a huge step in the right direction from Panasonic.

 

I guess I could have asked the question a bit more precisely. I know, and have done the manual changes on the SSD site -- but do the automatic changes Win 7 makes during a fresh install include all the SSD Review sites recommendations? Any experience as to them being more, fewer, better, more problematic, etc.? I take it they are pretty much identical. Sounds like either path; the fresh Win 7 install followed by the driver bundle or use the Panny restore disk (or clone the HHD you already have) and then follow the SSDReview sites modifications-- either should get you to the same point. Agree?

Also, while the SSD Site lists a set-by-step modification list (about 20 steps - with excellent explanations as to what and why you are doing each step), it also has a "bundle" for many of the major SSD manufacturers products. Find your SSD's manufacturer, run its .exe file and all changes are done automatically. I've tried it both ways and haven't see any difference - except for saving about an hour.

 

I think the SSD's site does a bit more than windows normally does...
Bundle to do the mod's...I did not see that.

Just for info...I think the new version of Acronis detects a SSd and adjusts the formatting...

 

Yes the site does do more...MS is not that smart

 

I haven't checked in lately, but I wanted to acknowledge the help I received here in the past month, and say thanks! I have our CF-30 lined up here with:

• a working SSD (we'll bring the old HDD as a backup drive, just in case--although we shouldn't need it, see below),
• two spare primary batteries (thanks in part to the generosity of strangers here),
• an external battery charger so we can charge the laptop and a backup battery simultaneously, and
• a media-bay battery to extend its life a bit further while on the ice.

Thanks to y'all for helping me make sure we got the right stuff.

One a side note: one of our teammates recently convinced Crucial, Inc to chime in a small "sponsorship" for our campaign, they've sent us 4 (count 'em, four!) spare SSD drives for data backup, including two 1TB internally-redundant SSDs (they have two copies of all chips in the drive, so will keep working if any one chip fails internally). Those ain't cheap! We'll image the main SSD drive onto all the rest when our team meets in Kangerlussuaq next week, before flying up to the ice. We don't collect huge datasets, but the data we do collect is extremely expensive and valuable to us, so the redundancy is awesome.

We leave for Greenland late next week, everything looks in order! (Well, except me, I'm a bit of a stressed-out wreck, but that's another matter entirely.) Thanks so much everyone, I appreciate all the help!

- Mike

 

Right on Mike. I hope the expedition goes well and you accomplish all your objectives. Look forward to hearing how things went when you get back. Have a blast!