Mapping Software and GPS Receivers

I recently bought a couple of touch screen CF-28’s to use in my trucks as navigation units and wish I had someone to ask before I spent all the money twice on trial and error.

1) I bought the CF-28’s with the internal GPS units thinking this would be the cleanest and best way to have simple and affordable navigation units with big readable screens. This is only partly true the CF-28’s work flawlessly but the internal factory GPS unit is erratic at best and would not work at all unless we put the laptop on the dash of the truck. After spending many hours researching this and not finding anyone that has reported much better luck I decided to try a USB receiver model (GlobalSat BU 353 USB Sirf III GPS Receiver). I installed the drivers that came on an included CD plugged the unit in and it has exceeded all my expectations. My plan is to try a blue tooth model next from the same manufacture I let you know if this works as well as soon as I’m done.
2) Software is where I could have saved the most money if I had done more research. I bought Microsoft Streets and Trips first and found although it did a good job navigating it was not user friendly especially when you’re driving. Next I tried Microsoft Map Point on a friend’s suggestion and found it’s just an expensive version of Streets and Trips still not user friendly. I then tried a copy of Fugawi Global Navigator and really cant give you an opinion as I dint give it much time but it looks like good software. The reason I didn’t use Fugawi software is I bought a copy of iGuidance V-4 and this software was made for the CF-28 with a touch screen it has big easy to read buttons that you just push and it will walk you through any options you need. This software is so easy to use that I just give the computer to one of my guys and told him to try it for the day with no other instructions; he was so impressed he bought a CF-28 and a copy iGuidance for his personal truck. I can’t say enough good about this software even if you don’t know the correct spelling of the streets you just get close and it will get you there, a must for my crew. We have been using it for a couple of months and find no one will drive the big truck unless they can take the computer now.
I hope this will help some of you that have a CF and would like to use it as a navigation unit as well.
Jim

 

I just gave my 353 GlobalSat receiver to my brother (He needed it), but it worked GREAT with my toughbook. I had it inside the truck at all times on our drive from Detroit to Los Angeles, and never lost signal.

However, as cool as that was to use, I still want internal GPS, and I'm slowly still working on it (It's about #3 on my current project list).

Though, I never had any troubles with Streets and Trips and quite like it, however I wouldn't use 2008 (More expensive, and I hear some people have issues making it work... ).

The module I plan on making work is very similar to the core of the 353 (Which is GlobalSat's 406, I'm using the 408 which has an external antenna connector).

 

Cagillac... Thanks for the info. I just found my USB GPS while cleaning up my shop over the weekend. Having 18 CF-28s in various states of repair/assembly/disassembly tends to keep things fairly cluttered. Anyway... I bought Pocket co-pilot several years ago. It worked like crap. So when the company sent out an email telling me about an upgrade I emailed them back to tell them so. The owner of the company said I should try the laptop version. He gave it to me for cost ($90 I think) and I installed it on my laptop of the time. It was okay at best but the GPS receiver is pretty good.

I'm with Modly... I want an internal one and am also looking into the pinouts when I have the time to take a break from building all the other laptops. I REALLY want internal GPS. I bought the same thing as Modly on his recommendation. Just need to find the right 2 pins for TX & RX and I should be set.

I may have to check into the i-Guidance... Is the software pretty much up to date?

 

Thanks Toughbook for the input. I’m with you guys in wanting an internal GPS and even looked into this receiver ( http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8266) after being so disappointed with the stock unit but finely opted for the USB version just to get things going.
I’d like to know your thoughts on this Bluetooth receiver ( http://www.usglobalsat.com/p-40-bt-359w.aspx ) I’m considering getting one just to try.
iGuidance V-4 is surprisingly up to date for my area, with all the new streets going in every day it has not let us down yet. Give it a try you wont be disappointed.

 

Read....

http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/globalsat-bt-359-gps-review.php

I just want the nav software for geekness and because you never know when you might get into someone else's car or truck and they don't have navigation. I really don't need it. I have Nav in all my vehicles except, strangely enough, my Porsche. I would want to be able to load up topographical and marine maps as well. Then you'd have a one-stop-shop to go any time you needed it!

 

Cadillac, Those are nifty modules and I considered them for a bit, but they do not have a provision for an external antenna... which in the toughbook is pretty critical. (The magnesium case blocks signal pretty well, I encased my old USB one into my parts book, and it got zero signal.)

Sparkfun is a great company though, and they do offer the one that I'm planning to use, but were out of stock when I wanted to buy it.

Also, something to keep in mind, most navigation software will only accept NMEA signals, and at 4800 baud only, so don't get too carried away with finding the most hardcore GPS receiver. I still want to check out some other software and see if it will support faster baud rates.

 

Thanks Modly.
You just confirmed my thought that the magnesium case would prevent an internal antenna from working properly. I was going to try to mount it out in the plastic hump that the stock GPS unit is in but decided to move on and just buy the USB unit.
FYI iGuidance will support baud rates from 4800 up to 115200.

 

HI,
I suspect my needs are a bit different than yours but I thought I would jump in.

My CF-29 does not have internal GPS. I did not want it because I have a very fine Garmin GPS III Plus receiver. I power this entire system off vehicle +12V. I run the CF-29 off an inverter. The Garmin receiver interfaces to the computer thru the serial port. If I bought this unit today I would get USB but when I bought it USB was not yet invented. I use the built-in antenna but the receiver does have provisions to add an external antenna. I have not found that it is needed. The setup never looses signal except in tunnels. It's very reliable which is what I want.

The mapping software is where we probably differ and where our different needs show. I use Terrain Navigator which is a topo map based program. This software uses exact replica USGS topo maps in various scales. It is not ideal for in-town navigation but is unbeatable in the bush.

For in town I use De Lorme which I find barely tolerable. Piss poor graphics but it does work and interfaces to the GPS for real time tracking.

I wanted to add this post for those who might have needs similar to mine.

Sparky

 

permit me for being nosey but what's your secret for success? i drive a rusty '92 astro!

 

So you're the guy that bought my astro

But good question. None of my cars cost more than $900.

 

I used to have a high profile job that paid me an obscene amount of money.... And the stock options were awesome. (Remember when the stock market was out of control?) I bought a lot of cool toys then. When the bubble burst... So did the job. But I still have all my toys!

 

Wow that sucks! We're kinda going through that around here, but its more like the death by 1000 cuts than a bubble bursting!

 

Its the toys that make the world go around!

 

He who ends up with the most toys is the winner...lol

 

Ok let me start off by saying I was completely happy with my USB GPS receiver in fact I was in the process of buying a couple more for my other CF-28’s when (Modly and Thoughbook) told me I had a small wiener for opting out for this option and the real men would stand buy their convictions and fight the fight for all of us that want the coolest old Thoughbooks with all the newest high-tech gizmos in true Tim Taylor fashion.
So after thinking about it they where right I bought these old laptops so I could open them up and see what’s inside and not be afraid of letting a little smoke out of a part here and there, so with that in mind I went back and started to research this some more.
Most of what I found has already been talked about here before so I will try to only mention things that where new to me.

1) “GPS modules are available as accessories; including Matsu****a Communications Industry Co.'s (Japan) CN-GX0290A CF-18 / CF-29 modules feature 12 channels and 1575.42 Mz L1 frequency. The CN-GX0100A CF-28 / CF-M34 modules feature 8 channels and 1575.42 Mz L1 frequency.” I’m guessing most of us have the 8 channel 1575.42 Mz L1 frequency module in our old CF-28’s
2) Modly had suggested he was looking at the GlobalSat EM-408 a 20 channel 1575.42 Mz L1 frequency module. http://www.globalsat.com.tw/eng/support_check.php?check_id=43&checkType=Manual So this is where I started and after looking closer I think he is right and this module should be a nice upgrade from our old CN-GX0100A modules.
3) After spending a little time reading through old post here and checking some other resources I found we really only had a few options for hooking this up to our computers. The first option is to try to wire it directly to the motherboard through one of the connectors CN-18 or CN-40 the problem being finding TX and RX but after reading more about EM-408 module they say that TX pin 4 is the main transmits channel for outputting navigation and measurement data to user’s navigation software or user written software output TTL level,0V~2.85V.We don’t know what our software wants. This got me thinking about maybe trying something a little safer just to see if this module was an improvement first.
4) Second option just uses an Eval board http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8145 and hookup through a USB maybe on connector CN-18 pin 29 and 30 or a RS232 anyway this would be a good and safe option since we could test it before we mounted and made any permanent changes. Plus we even have instructions how to do this http://www.kronosrobotics.com/Projects/GPS.shtml not that we need them.
5) Option three. I got to thinking why cant we use our old GPS board and just replace the module? We know that they operate on the same frequency. All modules I looked at used the 0V~2.85V for the TX so I would assume Matsu****a did the same also finding the RX pin would be good. We would also need to confirm we had 3.3 DC.Volts to power the unit. Lastly an on/off would be nice. So I immediately put down my beer and pork rinds and grabbed some screwdrivers and ripped that little bundle of love out of one of my CF-28s and started studying.

After a couple of hours trying to find my Loupe to see the PCB I just took pictures and blew them up (Sucks getting old) and noticed only five of the pins going to the stock module look like they are being used. This is great news since the new module I want to use only uses five conductors as well, now if only they where the same. This is the part where I’m asking for help I could hook this unit back up and test each pin and hope I don’t short out a another board or if one of you fine gentlemen have already done this than please share. Maybe one of you TB techs could look this up for us?
I have posted the picture and numbered the pins so when I reference them you will know what I’m talking about. To me it looks like pin number 8 is not being used. Pin number 3 is a ground. Pins 7-5 would be my 3.3 VDC. And pin1 is TX.Pin 2 is RX.And Pin 6 is battery. and pin 4 is 5.5 VDC Wouldn’t it be nice if is was only this easy.

 

i think you're definitely on the right track with this. it would help out if we had the specs and pinout for the stock module.. i tried to get this data through the panasonic semiconductor division, but the tech support guy that answered my request couldn't find anything. he directed me to Heartland after i told him it was a toughbook option!

It also appears to me that not only should we be able to replace the stock GPS module on a GPS board, but it appears that all the same locations on the RIM board are populated.. just add GPS module! since stock GPS boards are rare/expensive and RIM boards are plentiful/cheap, it would really be a great opportunity if we knew what signals to put on which pins.

 

Gravitar, Got a spare RIM board I can buy off you? Does that attach into the CN-18?

Edit;

http://cgi.ebay.com/Panasonic-Tough...ryZ42205QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Check that out... How is he making/obtaining those corner pieces that the GPS antenna is in?

 

Small weiner... you crack me up...

I still think we can hook it up directly to the board via the connecors or via the USB port. The service manual clearly shows the USB connections that are available for the docking port. I was thinking about tying on to those somehow. It sounds dorky but... In lieu of finding a better option... Buying a small USB GPS and hooking it up internally via the docking port. This would keep the regular USB port open for use but close the ones for the docking port if you have a Kodiak mount.

Ahhhh.. I've had too much Jack Daniels I suppose....

 

He is pretty funny. His humour reminds me of mine...

I like the idea you've got, but it won't work for what I've planned. I'm using my Kodiak's USB for attaching my fuel injection computer.

This weekend, I'll need to stock up the fridge with some jolt, and get a new tip for the soldering iron... I really need to get cracking on this project. I also hope Ohio state wins the game, so everybody will get the hell out of my neighbourhood when the game is done.
I won't be able to go anywhere all day without risking losing my street parking...

 

Gravitar - What do you think our chances are of getting the specs and pinout for the stock module from the Panasonic Tech’s that visit this forum?
The stock GPS boards maybe rare but they definitely are not worth big money the way I see it if we can use them to make usable GPS units by adding a $45.00 module than that’s there real value. I couldn’t sell mine knowing what I know about it so I offer it up to the CF-28 Hack Gods and lets see what happens.

Modly - Frirst thanks for setting me straight and reminding me that real men will never take the easy road that’s like reading instructions or asking for directions we just don’t do it. If I wanted easy I would have just bought some CF-30s and got a good night’s sleep instead of staying up all night looking at GPS receivers. Anyway thanks.
So have you tried testing any of these pins I’m showing my photo under power? You said in another post you had found the proper voltage for running one of these modules can you let me know where? And if it was on this GPS board? I’d like to know if you had a chance to look at my attachment and would agree on the opinion that the stock module only uses five pins and my brief assessment of them. I will check with a friend of mine that is a mold maker and see if he will make me a mold for the end piece to hold a GPS antenna if we get all the other bits working.

Toughbook – And thanks to you also for telling me that my idea of using a USB GPS module was cute but all the big boys where going to use an internal one and start me on this road of no sleep trying to find the answer of how I can be cool and yes even maybe have a big wiener too. Did you get a chance to look at the Eval Board that I put a link to? I think we could use this to hook right up to CN-18 or a host of other areas with its option of serial data out.

 

I've gotten as far as getting the module to power up. I was able to get ground and 3.3v, but that's it. Transfer and receive were not right, so the laptop didn't recognise it as anything other than a power draw.

Using the 50 pin connector would gain us a little though. Somebody posted up pictures of the pinout, and I saw where the receive pin was for GPS, but not a clue about transfer. However, I couldn't find a data cable that I could hack apart to do so.

Somewhere on this forum, somebody posted two pictures with the whole pinout on CN-18 and CN-40. I don't know where it went, but I saved the pictures on my old box. I'll load that puppy up tomorrow and post the photos. However, tonight I gotta finish this beer real quick and head off to bed.

 

Is this what you looking for?

 

Yup. There is also one for the CN-40 somewhere as well.

It contains useful, but hard to solve info. GPS in is where I believe the original GPS sends data, but we'd have nothing to transfer to the module.

 

I got a chance to check the pins and this is what I found.
Pin #1 Jumps from 1 to 4 volts, Assuming this is my TX
Pin #2 Steady 3.3 Volts, RX Pure guess nothing scientific (all the other modules I’m looking at have RX and TX pins together)
Pin #3 Ground
Pin #4 Steady 5.5 volts Power in?
Pin #5 Steady 3.3 volts Power in?
Pin#6 Battery backup 3.1 volts on mine.
Pin #7 Steady 3.3 ???
Pin #8 Nothing
I check before removing the module and got the results above.
I will order a new module next week and let you know what happens.

Jim

 

On a GPS Note, US GlobalSat is having a three-day Black Friday sale, starting 11/23/07.

http://www.usglobalsat.com/c-54-3-day-sale-items.aspx?pagenum=3

There's USB GPSs for USD $9.95 and some serial ones as well.

I just got two.

 

Good find man!

Those ones that are going for $19.95, they are very good receivers that I can vouch for.

 

Yes, the BU-353 is very popular in wardriving/GPS circles. I got one of them, and one of the $9.95 ones. I was just telling my wife, that my first GPS many years ago was almost $300, the next one was $40 (another Black Friday deal) and now they are this cheap...

I am potentially planning on using the $9.95 one semi-permanently mounted as part of the trunk monkey project.

 

Thanks Shark for the heads up.
I just picked up two more BU-353’s and an EM-408 all for under $100.00.

 

I revisited Roadnav this weekend. I tried it a few years ago, and it was fairly primitive. It has some impressive features, it has come a long way (and there is a Windows version). Roadnav uses US Census maps. It can identify landmarks and points of interest using the freely available GNIS data files from the USGS. It is free/Opensource software, and it will always have a disadvantage over Magellan or TomTom. These big commercial services can have every burger place, gas station and restaurant listed, because there are $$$ involved.

Non-US users can download maps from OpenStreetMap.org (it's all volunteer-operated street maps). Unlike many free GPS programs, Roadnav can plan routes, and give speech instructions (Turn left on Maple Street). The US Census data can be fairly limiting, since for example it does not list one-way streets, Roadnav may plot you the wrong way on a street. Pay services will include newer road construction/changes I am sure.

Roadnav does shine in a few areas. The maps are vector, which means you can zoom from a state view down to a street view using the same map. Other mapping software that uses raster maps, you really need to download a small/medium/large map if you want to zoom a lot, otherwise they can get "the jaggies". Roadnav's US Census (Tiger Maps) maps is organized by counties, so you have to plan ahead on a big trip. It has some features that are really oriented towards car/navigation use. One nice one is that it can automatically change zoom levels based on your reported GPS speed. It zooms way out when you're on the interstate, and zooms in to a better street level view when you slow down. You can also have the maps overlaid over aerial maps, if available.

A simple yet valuable feature, is the ability to change the URLs that you get maps from easily, on a preferences menu. I have used other mapping software, that when Terraserver changes it's web page layout, the mapping software can't get maps anymore until you edit a config file (or wait for the new release that includes the change).

Something that also could be nice for car/mobile PC use, is that Roadnav has support for LCDproc (Linux only). This is a project to use little 20x4 character-based LCDs to display various bits of system information. I am not sure what info Roadnav can display on it (some GPS/nav info, presumably), but it could be a fun/useful addition to a car project.

Roadnav is greatly improved, free, easier to use and has some nice features.

 

I have a GPS module that I am going to try and retrofit a Rockwell Jupiter GPS OEM module with a 20 pin connector. If I have any success I will post the results. The Hummer guy on e-bay is doing it some how.

 

FYI, I bought the RCATS-GDL06 Geohelix GPS antenna with an adaptor pigtail and this is what I got in about 30 seconds. Not too bad for the old stock GPS module.

http://www.rcatsystems.com/cube/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=17

 

FYI, you can buy just the board (and everything else) at tigerdirect.com for $49.

http://tigerdirect.partsearch.com/PartSearch.aspx?PartNumber=DL3UP1211AAA+&x=25&y=11

[

The link is updated.

 

That’s awesome Recon, she looks like she is firing on all eight I would love to see how you mounted the antenna.

Please keep us informed on your progress.
Jim

 

That tigerdirect link is interesting to me... is that the daughter board for GPS by chance?

Also, since the site has a censor against portions of a word, you might have to edit it to view the link.

 

No way.. you mean to tell me you can get the stock GPS card from tiger direct?! What a bunch of nim rods.. "PC BOARD".. must have taken a real genius to enter that description! I wonder if they could be persuaded to take a picture of this PC BOARD.. I don't wanna blow $50 and have it end up being an old sound card or something

 

I was able to match up the part number for one of my cards on another site, with a similar part number. It may be the real thing, but what it includes could be limited. If it has the ribbon cable though, it might be worth it.

 

I dropped the hammer on one board and a battery. I will let all know if it is what we are looking for.

Regards,

Recon

 

Cool man. They are kinda pricey, but not too bad of an option for us to equip books with GPS easily.

 

I think I found the best fit for the board. It is the 12 Channel Lassen IQ. It has the same amount of pins. Only 8 pins is less trial and error testing. You can view it at:


http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=163

Regards,

Recon

 

It looks like Toughbook figured out the GPS retrofit.

http://cgi.ebay.com/The-ULTIMATE-Toughbook-Totally-Custom-With-GPS-Warr_W0QQitemZ200180943126QQihZ010QQcategoryZ42205QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

Recon

As far as I can tell even though they both have eight connections you will still only use five.
Pin number Function Description
1 TXD A Serial Port A transmit, 3.3 V TTL
CMOS
2 GND Ground, Power and Signal
3 RXD A Serial Port A receive, 3.3 V TTL CMOS
4 PPS Pulse-Per-Second, 3.3 V TTL CMOS
5 TXDB Serial port B transmit, 3.3V TTL CMOS
6 RXDB Serial port B receive, 3.3V TTL CMOS
7 Prime Power (VCC) +3.3 VDC to ± 0.3 VDC
8 Battery Backup
Power
+2.5 VDC to + 3.6 VDC

Modly picked a good module that we are having good luck with. It's a GlobalSat EM-408 as discussed here
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=189644 and you might to look into this as well.

 

I do prefer the 408 to the Lassen boards because it has higher sensitivity, more channels, and is an easier hookup. It's also $2 cheaper if you go to the right place, and said right place doesn't charge as much for shipping as Sparkfun (Even though I fully respect sparkfun because they encourage the hobby, the prices just aren't great).

I can't wait til my new soldering station gets here though, so I can really go to town and finish my antenna install.

 

I just ordered a new soldering station too. The QUAKKO, Model 936... I hope it works better than it sounds! It comes with 10 tips though and I needed those for all the work I've been doing.

 

Hey Recon

Still like to see some photos of your work especially of your antenna mount.
Thanks in advance.
Jim

 

I wish mine came with tips, but I got a good deal on it because I'm still a part of the megasquirt fuel injection community. Tips are $7.50 a piece for mine


Eventually I'll get a high dollar setup, but this will solve alot of frustration I've got with soldering.

Edit; forgot to mention which station I'm getting. It's the Xytronic 379.

 

They sure make some very nice tips for that one...

 

You guys have all the cool stuff.
I just put a nail in a light socket.

 

Haha. I don't have all the cool stuff I'd like, but I do splurge my extra cash into my hobbies and things I can make money with (I've got a TON of tools. Literally, at least 2,000lbs of tools), because I'd rather be broke than bored.

Every tool I've bought though has been used to save me money or make it, so I have no problems buying them.

I'm sad though, I'm not getting a christmas bonus this year, so no new flat panel monitor for me on my desktop

 

Modly... You gotta get crackin' on the GPS!

 

I know, I know. I gotta get both of mine outfitted with it.

The great part about this project though, is now I've learned tons about GPS, and how it works, etc. That's the great part of DIY projects