Motherboard RAM exchangable?

Hello all,

This is my first post here, I was using the German forum before but it looks like this one is more active. However I have to say, not to get nasty comments from the German forum members, that if you post a problem most off the time you get an answer in a day.

I have a CF-18 KHH which I bought on ebay 2 years ago. I work in the oilfield and the travels with me and is also used as my navigation system using an garmin II plus for the data and Microsoft Mappoint Europe or USA depending were I work.
I am a technical guy and like electronics but I am technical-technical and not electronic-technical. So I don't have a problem changing parts in a laptop but don't ask me to program it.

Now I have some bluescreens, I read the thread that's discussing the problem. My problem looks the same but with this difference I get errors while doing a memory test. But as a result of what I said above the errors don't tell me anything, accept that something is not good.

I am afraid that the RAM on the motherboard is bad as I took out the additional Memory before I started testing the memory.

So my question is: Is the RAM on the motherboard exchangable?
If not is there anything else that can cause such problems and give memory errors?

Thanks in advance,

Roel

 

That's quick and good news, Thanks

Is there anyway to see which one off the memory parts is broken?
And does anybody have a picture of the Ram so I can locate it. I think I now but like to be sure.

 

Hold on camel...let us clear this out coz this rig is not an asus it is toughbook. Just listen only to the toughbook owner who has an experince with this kind of unit.

First, welcome to the forum.
Sec. From my understanding you are talking about the onboard ram not the removable one? Am I correct. Let me know then

ohlip

 

Oh, so the toughbook has memory soldered on to the motherboard he think's it's bad? That sucks.

 

Yes I am talking about the internal RAM not the additional you can put below the speaker.

I thought I was on the richt place, the Panasonic forum. I can't see who's a specialist or not.

So yes motherboard RAM exchangable or not?
Or could their be something else wrong that causes this problem.

My problems in short.

Bluescreens while running XP.
Cannot re-install XP. Tried 2 different DVD's. Also tried windows server 2003.
Used different HD still no luck installing XP.
Error coming up unable to copy file *.*

Took a 3rd HD on which I installed XP earlier and it runs again but with blue screens coming up again.

So my conclusion it's not the HD. But what then?

Run a memory test and it came up with thousands off errors.
I did expect that many to be honest but as I said before I have limited experience with trouble shooting computers. (Give me an old car, I can probably fix that)

So could it be memory or could it be something else?
To show my experience. Could it be bios or something else that can be reloaded?

 

Well! since you run a mem test already with the onboard RAm and has a multiple errors I am afraid you will need a new Mbo. It is replaceable but it must be a professional tech. to replace it. You can also try removing all component attached to it like mini card and Clean the onboard ram chipset terminal (IC legs, sometime corrosion is the culprit by a fine paint brush) and don't use any liquid then set the bios to default and give it a shot.


ohlip

 

How do you set Bios to default?

 

Hit F2 when booting
That takes you into the bios screen
And you will see that option on the last Tab

Alex

 

See! Camel a toughbook crowd is starting to come up to help you.


just look on their signature they have multiple toughbook in hand.


ohlip

 

Other inexperienced question: Is there a possiblility to switch off the Mbo Ram and use only the additional Ram?
Probably not but this could help to get around the problem.

 

Camel -

The quick rule of thumb here is if their signature doesn't have a Toughbook or two... or a Toughbook in their nickname or Avatar, then they're prolly a "Post Diver" from the Dell/Asus forums.

*BLINK...BlinkBlink*LOOKS AT HIS OWN Sig & AVATAR*

Ummmm... nevermind.

Panasonic's approach towards durability is a sound one; they use modular I/O panels for replaceability, but their CRUCIAL HARDWARE... like the Processor & base RAM, are soldered to the MB rather than attached via a connector that is subject to failure caused by rough-handling induced ingress of dust & moisture. The intent being that if expansion RAM or an accessory card failed, it could be removed in the field & the rest of the computer would continue to function in reduced capacity.

Now we are seeing a number of these models coming through with failure caused by the flow-soldering process and you want to say "well, that's crappy engineering" and to the ultimate, long-life minded user out there it's true. But to the people who bought these machines NEW, that design resulted in FAR FEWER failures in the field during the warranty period; which is what the commercial or military or public safety buyer usually considers to be its "useful life." Any use they get beyond that is "gravy".

Now as a Tech, I can tell you that a lot of these flow-soldering related failures are the result of an industry-wide change in the manufacturing process; in the last decade EVERY electronics manufacturer has been forced to move to ROHS production models; one of the core changes is the elimination of lead-based solder in the manufacture.

This change presents a lot of headaches; lead-free solder needs to be heated almost 200 degrees hotter than lead-based solder, so there's a much finer line between providing adequate solder melt and preventing damage to components. Also, the lead-free solder doesn't have near as good "wettability" or "flowability" as it's predecessor; and on top of that, it's much harder to tell a "cold solder joint" from a normal one, as even a perfect solder joint "LOOKS" like a cold solder joint until you examine it with a microscope.

ROHS-compliant production is still in its infancy; everybody's still working the bugs out. Lead-Free solder is responsible right now for most of the "epidemic failures" in specific electronic devices; among the most well- known are Motorola RAZR/KRZR phones, the random failures in 1st generation iPod minis & iPhones, all those "brick" PCs you remember HATING, and of course, "overheating" random failures in the early PS3s and the notorious "Red Ring of Death" failures in the XBOX 360.

Personally, I feel it's just the price we have to pay for becoming a civilized manufacturing nation; it is unacceptable to continue to lead-poison factory workers 40 years after the dangers became known.

mnem
You want a polyester resin milkshake along with those fiberglass-impregnated fish sticks?

 

Sorry dewed - yer beastie is hosed. The built-in RAM can't be turned off.

mnem
FireHose? Heh... HoseFire, I say.

 

:cry: :cry:

 

If the on-board ram goes bad that means the m/b has to be replaced. Has anyone tried to desolder the on-board ram? Just to see if it could be done?
If the m/b is gonna be toast what's the harm in trying?

 

Stiffnecked has a good point. Carefully take it all apart... You never know... Get out a good set of 10X or higher (preferably) stereo magnifying glasses and take a look at the motherboard and especially around the RAM... I have seen bits of crap (conductive crap) get inside through the hard drive, card slot or battery doors and get caught up where it shouldn't be. Take a look... It certainly can't hurt.

And by the way... Welcome to the forum. Also, as the others have said.. Unless they are a regular contributor to the Toughbook/Panasonic forum... Don't listen to ANYTHING they have to say or follow their advice unless you see someone else in the Toughbook crowd agreeing with them. These are different animals than any other and they just don't understand.

 

Soldering such small parts is not for me. I make already a mess off soldering 2 normal wires.
The small screw on the bottum of the CF-18 I find small, I rather use a 1" spanner or a sledge hammer.
But it is a idea, maybe I have to find somebody who loves to do that for me

How much will a Mbo be approx?
I saw one on ebay for $200,- but he doesn't ship outside the states and he wasn't sure about the quality.

 

LOL... "not sure about the quality" on eBay translates to "This is the one I replaced to fix my machine" or "I tried it but it was DOA or it smoked or screamed at me" just like "Untested" means "I tried it but couldn't make it work" or at best "I would have tried it, but I was afraid to because I saw bits broken off".

$200.00 is a lot for most any eBay MoBo, especially in this down market; it's completely absurd for one not tested AND guaranteed.

mnem
FleaBay<~~~~~~~Which ones are the REAL Pirates?~~~~~~~>PirateBay

 

Totally agree with mnementh.
Hi camelroel as you said you are a electronic techial,and if you know something about SMT, you can reflow the solder around the ram area before you change the mainboard, this is a air gun for amateur use ,see if you can find some friend who own it.

 

I was not electronic technical, give me some spanners instead off chips. Unless the come in a big bag.

 

tango tough- nice equippment, i've used a pocket butane torch to reflow SMT(not recommending it to any body) but it's cheap, and most of my repairs are home and automotive creation/repair. i suppose sooner or later i'll need a reflow station.

 

Tango... What is the model number on that power supply? I'd like to get one like that. Something I can lay with the voltage and amperage.

I'd also like to get a good reflow machine...

 

Yeah; I've got the AOYUE 2702 with all the goodies; it's a fair hot air rework station for hobbyist use at a decent price. It's digital everything and closed loop temp control on all 3 functions. I like the price points on the soldering iron heads; they hold up well and are cheap for unitized tip/heater.

http://store.sra-solder.com/product.php?xProd=6268

http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-Profesional-Repair-Rework-Station/dp/B000HDJ5J2

If you're happy with the desoldering gun you already have, you might try this; I figured for the extra 95 bux I might as well get it all and keep my old stuff for my second bench.

http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-968-Digital-Rework-Station/dp/B000HDG0AO/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_b

mnem
What kind of guy gets excited over soldering equipment?

 

Have any of you watched the SMT soldering videos on you-tube,,
Pretty amazing stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NN7UGWYmBY

Bob

 

BE Carefull, the melting temp of solder used in SMT is lower than the solder wire, so if you use the solding iron to work , you are no longer to remove the parts by hot air.

 

Who told you that? most SMT assembly is done with PB-free solder - HIGHER melting temp than the 60/40 that MOST techs use with a soldering iron.

mnem
Too hot? Get out of the solder pot!

 

May be the SMT PCB is older one,( still using sn/pb solder) I use 220-230 degree C to remove small parts, I use a 370 degree C soldering Iron with melting point about 310-320 degree C solder wire to solder parts, correct me if I am wrong. TIA

 

No, that's about right if you're using lead-free solder; I keep my iron set around 260-280 for 60/40 and 330-340 for lead-free, but that could be due to minor variations in temp control display and personal soldering habits. I've always been a "run it hot, hard & fast" kinda guy...

mnem
DOOD! YOU SIZZLIN!! Move that tail!